twilight2000-digest Sunday, December 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 182 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons RE: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons How much water? Re: How much water? Re: How much water? Re: How much water? Re: How much water? Re: How much water? Re: How much water? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:58:18 -0600 From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons >From: Tim Walker > >Peter wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Does anyone have Challenge 72? If possible could someone provide the >stats > > for the M16A4 ACR, Steyr ACR, FN P90 PDW (esp. this one!) and H&K MP >2000? > > > > Cheers! > >http://members.nbci.com/wapahani/newwpns.html There's no such page. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope http://www.geocities.com/copeab _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:12:55 -0900 From: "Daniel G" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons My understanding is the MP2000 didn't go over too well as a replacement for the mp5, so now you have the UMP series. With that in mind, I'm not sure how common the mp2000 would be. - -Daniel >From: "Peter" >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com >To: >Subject: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:35:56 +1100 > >Hi all, > >Does anyone have Challenge 72? If possible could someone provide the stats >for the M16A4 ACR, Steyr ACR, FN P90 PDW (esp. this one!) and H&K MP 2000? > >Cheers! > >Peter Grining >grining@southcom.com.au > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:00:54 -0600 From: "Paul Mulcahy" Subject: RE: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons I have all these weapons and many more on my web site, http://www.geocities.com/pmulcahy_78245 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-twilight2000@lists.ient.com [mailto:owner-twilight2000@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Daniel G Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 1:13 PM To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons My understanding is the MP2000 didn't go over too well as a replacement for the mp5, so now you have the UMP series. With that in mind, I'm not sure how common the mp2000 would be. - -Daniel >From: "Peter" >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com >To: >Subject: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons >Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 19:35:56 +1100 > >Hi all, > >Does anyone have Challenge 72? If possible could someone provide the stats >for the M16A4 ACR, Steyr ACR, FN P90 PDW (esp. this one!) and H&K MP 2000? > >Cheers! > >Peter Grining >grining@southcom.com.au > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 15:23:56 -0700 From: Tim Walker Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons > >http://members.nbci.com/wapahani/newwpns.html > > There's no such page. I tried the above link myself and it first it timed out, I tried it again and it worked just fine... You can also get to it by going to http://members.nbci.com/wapahani/ OR http://members.nbci.com/wapahani/darkconspiracy.html T.R. - -- *************************************************************** "What about the truth? What about the public's right to know?!" "Oh, come on don't give me that... The public traded the right to know for the chance to watch a long time ago..." - --Len Kaminski (Writer) Ghost Rider: 2099 #6 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 23:08:22 -0500 From: "Christopher Callicoat" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons - ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C05734.9B792E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Just a few quick comments after looking at Challenge 72 again. The ACR pr= ogram has somewhat fallen by the way side as far as I know. Although the = weapons developed were extremely innovative (the Steyr ACR and M16A4 to n= ame two) the cost and logistics of issuing them along with there fragilit= y and the cost of the specialized ammo resulted in the improvment of curr= ent weapons instead. (As an example, the HK G11 is still not completely i= ssued to the German military even after more than a decade of produciton.= ) FOr Americans, the largest improvement was seen in a near total rebuild= of the M16 (The A2). With a 3 round burst limiter instead of full auto, = a heavy barrel, redesigned front handguard, easier to use iron sights, et= c. the M16 is a viable assault rifle for another 10 years until the Land = Warrior comes into production (right....). Also, the military is using se= veral variants of the M16A2, including a Heavy Barrel sniper version. The= British still happily use the IW, the French have the FAMAS, the Germans= a combination of G3's and G11's. =20 If there is enough initerest I will dig out a recent issue of Popular Sci= ence and post what I know of the Land Warrior system and the system the A= rmy expects to replace that (Scary!!). Chris P.S. Again, from what I understand, the Navy SEALs and other Special Ops = units are carrying a HK built submachine gun in .45 ACP but I do not know= the name. Gotta love a big heavy slug. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel G Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 2:22 PM To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons My understanding is the MP2000 didn't go over too well as a replacement f= or the mp5, so now you have the UMP series. With that in mind, I'm not sure = how common the mp2000 would be. - -Daniel >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________= ____________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.= com *************************************************************************= ** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message.
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- ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C05734.9B792E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Just a few quick comments after looking at Challenge 7= 2 again. The ACR program has somewhat fallen by the way side as far as I = know. Although the weapons developed were extremely innovative (the Steyr= ACR and M16A4 to name two) the cost and logistics of issuing them along = with there fragility and the cost of the specialized ammo resulted in the= improvment of current weapons instead. (As an example, the HK G11 is sti= ll not completely issued to the German military even after more than a de= cade of produciton.) FOr Americans, the largest improvement was seen in a= near total rebuild of the M16 (The A2). With a 3 round burst limiter ins= tead of full auto, a heavy barrel, redesigned front handguard, easier to = use iron sights, etc. the M16 is a viable assault rifle for another 10 ye= ars until the Land Warrior comes into production (right....). Also, the m= ilitary is using several variants of the M16A2, including a Heavy Barrel = sniper version. The British still happily use the IW, the French have the= FAMAS, the Germans a combination of G3's and G11's. If there is enough initerest I will dig out a recent issue of P= opular Science and post what I know of the Land Warrior system and the sy= stem the Army expects to replace that (Scary!!). = Chris P.S. Again, from what I understand, the Navy SE= ALs and other Special Ops units are carrying a HK built submachine gun in= .45 ACP but I do not know the name. Gotta love a big heavy slug. <= DIV> ----- Original Mes= sage ----- From: Daniel G Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 2:22 PM To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com Subject: Re: Challenge 72= Advanced Infantry Weapons My understanding is the M= P2000 didn't go over too well as a replacement for the mp5, so now you= have the UMP series. With that in mind, I'm not sure how common the m= p2000 would be. -Daniel >with the line 'unsubscribe = twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ________________= _____________________________________________________________________ = Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer= .msn.com *********************************************************= ****************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordom= o@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body = of the message.

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- ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C05734.9B792E60-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:11:01 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons <> The Germans have canned the G11 and are looking to adopt the G36 in all it's permutations, I think the decision is about three years old now. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:39:15 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons - ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Walker To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons > > > Peter wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > Does anyone have Challenge 72? If possible could someone provide the stats > > for the M16A4 ACR, Steyr ACR, FN P90 PDW (esp. this one!) and H&K MP 2000? > > > > Cheers! > > http://members.nbci.com/wapahani/newwpns.html > > You'll find the info on the FN P90 PDW and M-16A4 (current version), the > text is intended for the Dark Conspiracy RPG but the game stats should > be more than suitable. > > T.R. Excellent website with good game stats! Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:40:48 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons - ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel G To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 6:12 AM Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons > My understanding is the MP2000 didn't go over too well as a replacement for > the mp5, so now you have the UMP series. With that in mind, I'm not sure how > common the mp2000 would be. > -Daniel The MP2000 was an early 1990s weapon? Any ideas as to why it didn't take off? Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:42:10 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Mulcahy To: Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 7:00 AM Subject: RE: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons > I have all these weapons and many more on my web site, > http://www.geocities.com/pmulcahy_78245 This is an excellent site! The equipment and game effects are especially good, as I am ex-Navy not Army. Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:38:32 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons - ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Stenning To: Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons > Weapon ROF DAM PEN BLK MAG SS BRST RNG > M16A4 ACR 5 3 1-nil 4/5 20/30 2 4 55 > w/duplex 10 2 1-nil 4/5 20/30* 2 4 30 > ammo > * Each round of Duplex ammo fired counts as two bullets, e.g, a single > burst contains ten bullets, although five cartridges were fired. > (NOTE: The duplex round is treated DIFFERENTLY than in Dark Conspiracy) Where are duplex rounds mentioned in Dark Conspiracy? > Weapon ROF DAM PEN BLK MAG SS BRST RNG > FN P90 PDW 10 2 1-nil 3 50 2 7 30 > w/HiVel ammo 10 2 1-1-nil 3 50 2 7 40 Is this HiVel (High Velocity?) ammo real world or a game invention? > Hope the above helps! > > Best regards, > > Roger Stenning > Webmaster, The Impossible Scenarios Group > www.the-isg.co.uk Thanks Roger, I am slowly tracking the T2k modules I want down, but the Challenge magazines aren't an option. Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:49:34 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C057E2.00AAE8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The US Army late 1980s ACR (Advanced Combat Rifle) was a technology = demonstrator not an intended service rifle. None of the concepts = (Fletchette, caseless or duplex) was considered enough of an advance = over the M16A2. The West German G11 was approved for production = ~1989-1990 and entered service in limited trial qualities. The fall of = the Berlin wall and reunification lead the G11 not entering service. The = 7.62mm G3 soldiered on till a rifle was required for German rapid = deployment forces, the 5.56mm NATO G36 was selected. AFAIK the G3 = remains in service for the majority of the German army. Here's my stab at T2k stats for Land Warrior: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/6480/landw.html Peter ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Callicoat=20 To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com=20 Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 3:08 PM Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Hi, Just a few quick comments after looking at Challenge 72 again. The ACR = program has somewhat fallen by the way side as far as I know. Although = the weapons developed were extremely innovative (the Steyr ACR and M16A4 = to name two) the cost and logistics of issuing them along with there = fragility and the cost of the specialized ammo resulted in the = improvment of current weapons instead. (As an example, the HK G11 is = still not completely issued to the German military even after more than = a decade of produciton.) FOr Americans, the largest improvement was seen = in a near total rebuild of the M16 (The A2). With a 3 round burst = limiter instead of full auto, a heavy barrel, redesigned front = handguard, easier to use iron sights, etc. the M16 is a viable assault = rifle for another 10 years until the Land Warrior comes into production = (right....). Also, the military is using several variants of the M16A2, = including a Heavy Barrel sniper version. The British still happily use = the IW, the French have the FAMAS, the Germans a combination of G3's and = G11's.=20 If there is enough initerest I will dig out a recent issue of Popular = Science and post what I know of the Land Warrior system and the system = the Army expects to replace that (Scary!!). Chris P.S. Again, from what I understand, the Navy SEALs and other Special = Ops units are carrying a HK built submachine gun in .45 ACP but I do not = know the name. Gotta love a big heavy slug. - ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C057E2.00AAE8C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The US Army late 1980s ACR (Advanced Combat = Rifle) was a=20 technology demonstrator not an intended service rifle. None of the = concepts=20 (Fletchette, caseless or duplex) was considered enough of an advance = over the=20 M16A2. The West German G11 was approved for production ~1989-1990 and = entered=20 service in limited trial qualities. The fall of the Berlin wall and=20 reunification lead the G11 not entering service. The 7.62mm G3 soldiered = on till=20 a rifle was required for German rapid deployment forces, the 5.56mm NATO = G36 was=20 selected. AFAIK the G3 remains in service for the majority of the German = army. Here's my stab at T2k stats for Land = Warrior: http://w= ww.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/6480/landw.html Peter ----- Original Message ----- From:=20 Christopher=20 Callicoat To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com = Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 = 3:08=20 PM Subject: Re: Challenge 72 = Advanced=20 Infantry Weapons Hi, Just a few quick comments after looking at Challenge 72 again. = The ACR=20 program has somewhat fallen by the way side as far as I know. Although = the=20 weapons developed were extremely innovative (the Steyr ACR and M16A4 = to name=20 two) the cost and logistics of issuing them along with there fragility = and the=20 cost of the specialized ammo resulted in the improvment of current = weapons=20 instead. (As an example, the HK G11 is still not completely issued to = the=20 German military even after more than a decade of produciton.) FOr = Americans,=20 the largest improvement was seen in a near total rebuild of the M16 = (The A2).=20 With a 3 round burst limiter instead of full auto, a heavy barrel, = redesigned=20 front handguard, easier to use iron sights, etc. the M16 is a viable = assault=20 rifle for another 10 years until the Land Warrior comes into = production=20 (right....). Also, the military is using several variants of the = M16A2,=20 including a Heavy Barrel sniper version. The British still happily use = the IW,=20 the French have the FAMAS, the Germans a combination of G3's and = G11's. If there is enough initerest I will dig out a recent issue of = Popular=20 Science and post what I know of the Land Warrior system and the system = the=20 Army expects to replace that (Scary!!). Chris P.S. Again, from what I understand, the Navy SEALs and other = Special Ops=20 units are carrying a HK built submachine gun in .45 ACP but I do not = know the=20 name. Gotta love a big heavy slug. - ------=_NextPart_000_00BB_01C057E2.00AAE8C0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:03:24 -0900 From: "Daniel G" Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons I'm away from home right now, but I have a "Police" article on the UMP45 that discusses H&K SMGs. Also, It wouldn't surprise me if special ops people used the UMP45, as it is compact and accurate. Plus, it uses a quick attach/detach suppressor. I'll write back in a couple days about the MP2000 if no one else answers the question. - -Daniel >From: "Peter" >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com >To: >Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons >Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 19:40:48 +1100 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Daniel G >To: >Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 6:12 AM >Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons > > > > My understanding is the MP2000 didn't go over too well as a replacement for > > the mp5, so now you have the UMP series. With that in mind, I'm not sure how > > common the mp2000 would be. > > -Daniel > >The MP2000 was an early 1990s weapon? Any ideas as to why it didn't take >off? > >Peter > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 23:07:40 -0700 From: Tim Walker Subject: Re: Challenge 72 Advanced Infantry Weapons Daniel G wrote: > > I'm away from home right now, but I have a "Police" article on the UMP45 > that discusses H&K SMGs. Also, It wouldn't surprise me if special ops people > used the UMP45, as it is compact and accurate. Plus, it uses a quick > attach/detach suppressor. I'll write back in a couple days about the MP2000 > if no one else answers the question. > -Daniel For info on the H&K MP 2000 goto: http://www.hkpro.com/MP2000.htm The H&K Pro site is one of the best regarding weapons from the German Arms firm. T.R. - -- *************************************************************** "What about the truth? What about the public's right to know?!" "Oh, come on don't give me that... The public traded the right to know for the chance to watch a long time ago..." - --Len Kaminski (Writer) Ghost Rider: 2099 #6 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:56:39 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: How much water? The T2k rules mention how much food is required per day, but what about water? I'm thinking of the the desert more than Europe, but am curious an how much water is required per day in temperate climates and also the desert. Peter G *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:24:57 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: How much water? Peter wrote: > The T2k rules mention how much food is required per day, but what about > water? I'm thinking of the the desert more than Europe, but am curious an > how much water is required per day in temperate climates and also the > desert. > > Peter G > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. I wondered this too, but never found out how much exactly is needed. I came up with a figure based on stature. I'll email the list if i can find where i wrote it down heh. - -- Peter Vieth | fitek@ix.netcom.com | http://sanitarium.scizzors.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 17:24:04 -0900 From: "Daniel G" Subject: Re: How much water? There is a field manual on desert operations in the ADTDL(http://www.adtdl.army.mil). There is also one on jungle ops. Between these, there is quite a bit of information. - -Daniel >From: "Peter" >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.ient.com >To: >Subject: How much water? >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 12:56:39 +1100 > >The T2k rules mention how much food is required per day, but what about >water? I'm thinking of the the desert more than Europe, but am curious an >how much water is required per day in temperate climates and also the >desert. > >Peter G > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 23:02:48 -0600 From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: How much water? >From: "Peter" > >The T2k rules mention how much food is required per day, but what about >water? I'm thinking of the the desert more than Europe, but am curious an >how much water is required per day in temperate climates and also the >desert. Dunno about T2K, but it's 2 quarts (roughly 2 liters) per day temperate, 3 per day hod ant 5 per day in a desert in GURPS. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope http://www.geocities.com/copeab _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 00:55:43 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: How much water? At 11:02 PM 12/2/00 -0600, Brandon Cope wrote: >>From: "Peter" >> >>The T2k rules mention how much food is required per day, but what about >>water? I'm thinking of the the desert more than Europe, but am curious an >>how much water is required per day in temperate climates and also the >>desert. > >Dunno about T2K, but it's 2 quarts (roughly 2 liters) per day temperate, 3 >per day hod ant 5 per day in a desert in GURPS. > I don't remember the GURPS rules, but I remember seeing somewhere that it's heavily dependent on how much work you're doing (and hence how much you're sweating)--MUCH more so than food is. That is, a person who's doing work needs like four times what a sedendtary person needs, or something like that. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 23:00:25 -0800 From: Snake Eyes Subject: Re: How much water? - --=====================_4741960==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 12:56 PM 12/3/00 +1100, Peter wrote: >The T2k rules mention how much food is required per day, but what about >water? I'm thinking of the the desert more than Europe, but am curious an >how much water is required per day in temperate climates and also the >desert. Cut mercilessly from Merc 2000 (p. 70): "WATER: In most scenarios the characters are presumed to be able to get= =20 adequate water from the surrounding terrain, and thus water is not=20 considered. Referees may wish to make use of scenarios where water is=20 scarce, perhaps a vital part of the action (the team might have to capture= =20 the only well for hundreds of kilometers). Implement the following=20 optional rules: "Characters need two liters of water a day to continue optimal=20 functioning in weather up to 20=BAC (double this requirement for each 15=BA= =20 increase in temperature). The effects of thirst are the same as starvation= =20 (subtract one level of fatigue if at least half the daily requirement is=20 consumed), but recovery is quicker (a character can recover from the=20 effects of thirst in one day by consuming 110% of the normal=20 requirement). Death occurs more rapidly also: a character on half water=20 rations will die within a week, one on no water within a few days. Animal= =20 water requirements are much larger than those for humans, but are not dealt= =20 with here for the sake of simplicity. "By definition a liter of water weighs one kilogram. Water carriers=20 come in a variety of sizes and shapes. A character's basic load includes a= =20 one-liter canteen and a two-liter reserve canteen (this is not intended to= =20 be a soldier's only water source). "Referees should consider carefully before implementing these=20 rules. Water is very heavy and is one of the primary logistical factors to= =20 be considered in military actions. But it is not very exciting, and=20 characters have more interesting things to worry about. Hope this info helps. I normally just hand-wave water intake in temperate= =20 climates, as well as the required processing (boiling, filtration and=20 purification). On the other hand, making PC's track their intake is also a= =20 fair and realistic method of introducing the occasional disease-related=20 plot device. There's nothing like a bout with ghiardia to knock some wind= =20 out of their sails. ~ Snake Eyes - --=====================_4741960==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 12:56 PM 12/3/00 +1100, Peter wrote: The T2k rules mention how much foo= d is required per day, but what about water? I'm thinking of the the desert more than Europe, but am curious an how much water is required per day in temperate climates and also the desert. Cut mercilessly from Merc 2000 (p. 70): "WATER: In most scenarios the characters are presumed to be able to get adequate water from the surrounding terrain, and thus water is not considered. Referees may wish to make use of scenarios where water is scarce, perhaps a vital part of the action (the team might have to capture the only well for hundreds of kilometers). Implement the following optional rules: "Characters need two liters of water a day to continue optimal functioning in weather up to 20=BAC (double this requirement for each 15=BA increase in temperature). The effects of thirst are the same as starvation (subtract one level of fatigue if at least half the daily requirement is consumed), but recovery is quicker (a character can recover from the effects of thirst in one day by consuming 110% of the normal requirement). Death occurs more rapidly also: a character on half water rations will die within a week, one on no water within a few days. Animal water requirements are much larger than those for humans, but are not dealt with here for the sake of simplicity. "By definition a liter of water weighs one kilogram. Water carriers come in a variety of sizes and shapes. A character's basic load includes a one-liter canteen and a two-liter reserve canteen (this is not intended to be a soldier's only water source). "Referees should consider carefully before implementing these rules. Water is very heavy and is one of the primary logistical factors to be considered in military actions. But it is not very exciting, and characters have more interesting things to worry about. Hope this info helps. I normally just hand-wave water intake in temperate climates, as well as the required processing (boiling, filtration and purification). On the other hand, making PC's track their intake is also a fair and realistic method of introducing the occasional disease-related plot device. There's nothing like a bout with ghiardia to knock some wind out of their sails. ~ Snake Eyes - --=====================_4741960==_.ALT-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 09:08:32 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: How much water? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C05C3F.7167D8A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - -Snipped-=20 "Characters need two liters of water a day to continue optimal = functioning in weather up to 20=BAC (double this requirement for each = 15=BA increase in temperature). The effects of thirst are the same as = starvation (subtract one level of fatigue if at least half the daily = requirement is consumed), but recovery is quicker (a character can = recover from the effects of thirst in one day by consuming 110% of the = normal requirement). Death occurs more rapidly also: a character on = half water rations will die within a week, one on no water within a few = days. Animal water requirements are much larger than those for humans, = but are not dealt with here for the sake of simplicity. "By definition a liter of water weighs one kilogram. Water carriers = come in a variety of sizes and shapes. A character's basic load = includes a one-liter canteen and a two-liter reserve canteen (this is = not intended to be a soldier's only water source). "Referees should consider carefully before implementing these rules. = Water is very heavy and is one of the primary logistical factors to be = considered in military actions. But it is not very exciting, and = characters have more interesting things to worry about. I know this is a game scenario but living in Australia I can tell you = that as a general rule you are going to need a lot more water than what is mentioned above. I would be looking = to at least double what is suggested above, especially for operations in temperatures from the high 20's to = 30's.=20 As an example to this. I recently finished a promotion course with the = Army here in Australia. In the bush segment of the phase the temps were those suggested above. Given that we = were actively patrolling, I was going through 4 water bottles per patrol. Even with this water intake = dehydration was starting to take hold. Suggested water intake for a day was in the vicinity of 8 to 12 water = bottles a day minimum. So you are looking at 8 litres per day per man if they are active to stop = dehydration. That's a lot of water, around a=20 20L jerry a day. Hope that helps you. Ballistix - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C05C3F.7167D8A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -Snipped- "Characters = need two=20 liters of water a day to continue optimal functioning in weather up to = 20=BAC (double this requirement for each 15=BA=20 increase in temperature). The effects of thirst are the same as = starvation=20 (subtract one level of fatigue if at least half the daily requirement is = consumed), but recovery is quicker (a character can recover from the = effects of=20 thirst in one day by consuming 110% of the normal requirement). = Death=20 occurs more rapidly also: a character on half water rations will = die=20 within a week, one on no water within a few days. Animal water=20 requirements are much larger than those for humans, but are not dealt = with here=20 for the sake of simplicity. "By definition a liter of water = weighs one=20 kilogram. Water carriers come in a variety of sizes and = shapes. A=20 character's basic load includes a one-liter canteen and a two-liter = reserve=20 canteen (this is not intended to be a soldier's only water = source). =20 "Referees should consider carefully before implementing these = rules. Water=20 is very heavy and is one of the primary logistical factors to be = considered in=20 military actions. But it is not very exciting, and characters have = more=20 interesting things to worry about. I know this is a game scenario but living in = Australia I can=20 tell you that as a general rule you are going to need a lot more water than what is mentioned above. = I would be=20 looking to at least double what is suggested above, especially for operations in temperatures = from the high=20 20's to 30's. As an example to this. I recently finished a = promotion course=20 with the Army here in Australia. In the bush segment of the phase the temps were those suggested = above.=20 Given that we were actively patrolling, I was going through 4 water bottles per patrol. Even with = this water=20 intake dehydration was starting to take hold. Suggested water intake for a day was in the vicinity = of 8 to=20 12 water bottles a day minimum. So you are looking at 8 litres per day per man if they are = active to stop=20 dehydration. That's a lot of water, around a 20L jerry a day. Hope that helps you. Ballistix - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C05C3F.7167D8A0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #182 *************************************