twilight2000-digest Tuesday, August 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 176 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings RE: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings RE: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings RE: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings RE: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings RE: Alternate Game Mechanics Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings RE: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings Re: T2K Game Settings In defense of 2300 Re: T2K Game Settings ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:13:29 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 1:07:22 PM, moer0019@tc.umn.edu writes: << Has anyone tried running a T2K game set in the future? I think it would be interesting to see what happens to post-WW3 Earth far down the road. A lot could change in 50 years, 100 years, or even farther into the future. The world might become more primitive...or it may rebuild itself instead. This kind of game could go in a lot of directions and has a ton of potential. >> I have, check out my website at: The Dark Place RPG Site http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/StrategySt/calibur1/index.html Also, have you ever heard of Gamma World? It's a little far-out from Twilight: 2000, but I had a lotta years of fun with it. Wizards of The Coast has a new edition of it for their Alternity rules system. If you like what you see on my web site you might consider looking into it. - -Calibur1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:33:30 -0400 From: bad_karma@mindspring.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings Timothy P Moerke wrote: > Has anyone tried running a T2K game set in the future My roommate and I have been kicking around a variant T2K setting for Twilight: 2015, in which history starts diverging in the present day and the Twilight War gets pushed up to 2009-2015. The ignition source is a Chinese invasion of the former Soviet Union. Our big sticking point, though, is how things go to hell in Europe - a Far Eastern conflict doesn't really serve to drag Germany, Poland, et alia into the war. Any thoughts? - - C. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:40:14 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 1:26:32 PM, robwbarnes@worldnet.att.net writes: << This is basically what the game 2300:AD was about. It takes events from the twilight war on up to the year 2300. >> Was it any good? My friend had purchased it when it first came out, but then he moved, and we never had a chance to play. I thought it was a derivative of Traveler? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:47:34 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 1:39:48 PM, bad_karma@mindspring.com writes: << My roommate and I have been kicking around a variant T2K setting for Twilight: 2015, in which history starts diverging in the present day and the Twilight War gets pushed up to 2009-2015. The ignition source is a Chinese invasion of the former Soviet Union. Our big sticking point, though, is how things go to hell in Europe - a Far Eastern conflict doesn't really serve to drag Germany, Poland, et alia into the war. >> Why not? Wouldn't NATO come into defense of the former Soviet Union? Considering the events of today, I think they would intervene if a nuclear power -like China- attacked them. If not, then you could alter a few details to ensure they do. After all, politics make strange bedfellows. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:09:37 -0500 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings I liked it. The system had a few problems, but the basic premise was pretty neat and it was prety detailed. It wasn't related to Traveller but was based on the same background as Twilight:2000. Aside from the basic game, there was a lot of historical source material in some of the sourcebooks that came out, particularly the 'Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook'. I used it to extrapolate a Twilight history up to about 2040. Calibur1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/28/00 1:26:32 PM, robwbarnes@worldnet.att.net writes: > > << This is basically what the game 2300:AD was about. It takes events from > the > twilight war on up to the year 2300. >> > > Was it any good? My friend had purchased it when it first came out, but then > he moved, and we never had a chance to play. I thought it was a derivative of > Traveler? > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:50:41 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings At 11:55 AM 8/28/00 -0500, Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) wrote: >Has anyone tried running a T2K game set in the future? I think it would >be interesting to see what happens to post-WW3 Earth far down the road. A >lot could change in 50 years, 100 years, or even farther into the future. >The world might become more primitive...or it may rebuild itself instead. >This kind of game could go in a lot of directions and has a ton of >potential. > Why would you have to run the game to find out? GDW already dictated what would happen, in the 2300AD timeline--and when they did, that's when I stopped buying TW2K products. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:54:15 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings At 01:40 PM 8/28/00 EDT, Calibur1@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 8/28/00 1:26:32 PM, robwbarnes@worldnet.att.net writes: > ><< This is basically what the game 2300:AD was about. It takes events from >the >twilight war on up to the year 2300. >> > >Was it any good? My friend had purchased it when it first came out, but then >he moved, and we never had a chance to play. I thought it was a derivative of >Traveler? It was originally called Traveller: 2300, but had nothing do with the Traveller game. I don't know much more about it--after reading the timeline that made France the world's greatest power, I decided it was so preposterous I wouldn't bother. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:24:51 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: T2K Game Settings > From: Scott David Orr > > Why would you have to run the game to find out? GDW already dictated what > would happen, in the 2300AD timeline--and when they did, that's when I > stopped buying TW2K products. I was going to ask what made you so irritated, but your next post kinda answered that for me. You realize of course, that if Napoleon had a bit more respect for the Russian winter we would probably be writing in French right now ... But I guess this doesn't have much to do with T2K. There are probably lots of SciFi books that give reasonable future histories. Maybe find and use one of them? A couple questions on a SciFi Fan newsgroup would probably yield a decent reading list to start looking for one you like. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:25:08 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 2:08:12 PM, robwbarnes@worldnet.att.net writes: << I liked it. The system had a few problems, but the basic premise was pretty neat and it was prety detailed. It wasn't related to Traveller but was based on the same background as Twilight:2000. Aside from the basic game, there was a lot of historical source material in some of the sourcebooks that came out, particularly the 'Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook'. I used it to extrapolate a Twilight history up to about 2040. >> It's been a long time, was this the game where France became the world dominate superpower? If it is, then yeah, I remember him telling me it was based on my Twilight: 2000 and had a lot of detailed background material. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:28:37 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 6:01:02 PM, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: << It was originally called Traveller: 2300, but had nothing do with the Traveller game. I don't know much more about it--after reading the timeline that made France the world's greatest power, I decided it was so preposterous I wouldn't bother. >> Just being curious, why do you say that? I'm an American with no French background, but in a fictional future of "what if's" why do you think that's impossible? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:31:22 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 5:57:26 PM, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: << Why would you have to run the game to find out? GDW already dictated what would happen, in the 2300AD timeline--and when they did, that's when I stopped buying TW2K products. >> He probably never saw the product. From what I remember, it didn't last long or go over well. I did hear they put out some resource books and adventure modules, but I never had the game myself. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:40:06 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 1:54:12 PM, Calibur1@aol.com writes: << << My roommate and I have been kicking around a variant T2K setting for Twilight: 2015, in which history starts diverging in the present day and the Twilight War gets pushed up to 2009-2015. The ignition source is a Chinese invasion of the former Soviet Union. Our big sticking point, though, is how things go to hell in Europe - a Far Eastern conflict doesn't really serve to drag Germany, Poland, et alia into the war. >> Why not? Wouldn't NATO come into defense of the former Soviet Union? Considering the events of today, I think they would intervene if a nuclear power -like China- attacked them. If not, then you could alter a few details to ensure they do. After all, politics make strange bedfellows. >> About an hour after I wrote the reply to this e-mail I said, "Huh?" I thought you meant how to get those countries involved in the war. You really meant how can conventional war brake out IN those countries. OK, well, not being fam iliar with the political conditions in your campaign, I would say you could still stick to the original background material in the book. As the war drags on the Chinese/Soviet border, a splinter Russian army (and Czech) decides it's time to take back what they feel rightfully belongs to them...Poland. I don't know, it's something to think about. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:44:43 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: T2K Game Settings At 05:24 PM 8/28/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >> From: Scott David Orr >> >> Why would you have to run the game to find out? GDW already dictated what >> would happen, in the 2300AD timeline--and when they did, that's when I >> stopped buying TW2K products. > >I was going to ask what made you so irritated, but your next post kinda >answered that for me. > >You realize of course, that if Napoleon had a bit more respect for the >Russian winter we would probably be writing in French right now ... > Probably not, no--no matter how much territory France conquered, it wasn't as developed politically and economically as Britain and the U.S.; and remember, the U.S. was already independent. Napolean also unleasehd nationalism--there was no way he was going to get all of Europe speaking French. :) >But I guess this doesn't have much to do with T2K. There are probably lots >of SciFi books that give reasonable future histories. Maybe find and use >one of them? A couple questions on a SciFi Fan newsgroup would probably >yield a decent reading list to start looking for one you like. > Probably. My general complaint is that GDW dictated the future history of TW2K--not just the 2300AD timeline, but the Howling Wilderness stuff as well. I don't _want_ the future course of my game world dictated by the game company, because I'm bound to find something about it I don't like. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:22:54 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings At 06:28 PM 8/28/00 EDT, Calibur1@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 8/28/00 6:01:02 PM, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: > ><< It was originally called Traveller: 2300, but had nothing do with the >Traveller game. I don't know much more about it--after reading the >timeline that made France the world's greatest power, I decided it was so >preposterous I wouldn't bother. >> > >Just being curious, why do you say that? I'm an American with no French >background, but in a fictional future of "what if's" why do you think that's >impossible? Actually, just mathemtics--France isn't big enough, in population terms to dominate the world economically or politically. It bothers me particularly though because, among the rich countries, France has for decades been behind most of the other countries in both technology and economic reforms. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:44:22 EDT From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings In a message dated 8/28/00 7:28:54 PM, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: << Actually, just mathemtics--France isn't big enough, in population terms to dominate the world economically or politically. It bothers me particularly though because, among the rich countries, France has for decades been behind most of the other countries in both technology and economic reforms. >> BUT, according to the T:2K background material, if NATO and the Warsaw Pact blow the crap out of each other, and France remains neutral and suffers less damage, couldn't they "rise to power". If they suffered little damage, wouldn't their vast farmland be able to support their people? Isn't that why there's a border war going on in Going Home? I'm not familiar with France's natural resources or industrial capability, but if the competition was destroyed or reduced, wouldn't they gain the upper hand? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:52:45 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: T2K Game Settings > From: Calibur1@aol.com > > Why not? Wouldn't NATO come into defense of the former Soviet Union? > Considering the events of today, I think they would intervene if > a nuclear > power -like China- attacked them. If not, then you could alter a > few details > to ensure they do. After all, politics make strange bedfellows. >> Why not have the Russians and the Chinese start a war, then have big split in Russia? Half the people turn back to communism and sign a peace treaty with China. Then Russia is in a civil war. Western Europe starts to help the non-communists. China starts to help their new treaty brother commies. The communists win Russia back and bring the war to Europe. Have a communist revolution in Poland to move the fight closer to western Europe. Meanwhile, have a big economic downturn in the US hinder much help from us for a while (just assume Alan Greenspan gets assinated, that alone might do it ...). We then arrive late to the war (like usual) and drive them back to Poland. Then a few nukes are exchanged and things begin to grind down. Then the 5th Division gets over extended into Poland on a poorly calculated assault and it's cut off. Then you have Twilight:2010 and the first setting is still valid. It may not be the most plausible turn of events, but neither was WWII before it happened. I mean if some game designer said in 1930 that France would fall that fast, he would have been laughed out of the gaming industry. Just come up with whatever you want and run with it. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:05:34 +0800 From: "Gloria" Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings >It was originally called Traveller: 2300, but had nothing do with the >Traveller game. I don't know much more about it--after reading the >timeline that made France the world's greatest power, I decided it was so >preposterous I wouldn't bother. > >Scott Orr actually the premise for France being the strongest is easy, it was the only one left standing after the twilight war, but in the game the french are shown to be having trouble and seemed to me to be losing its power base bewcause the other nation were no longer rebuilding but expanding.... GDW infact had a triad alliance of australia, usa, and germany held back a alien invasion (the french got thier ass kicked! ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:37:50 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings At 07:44 PM 8/28/00 EDT, Calibur1@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 8/28/00 7:28:54 PM, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: > ><< Actually, just mathemtics--France isn't big enough, in population terms to >dominate the world economically or politically. It bothers me particularly >though because, among the rich countries, France has for decades been >behind most of the other countries in both technology and economic reforms. >> > >BUT, according to the T:2K background material, if NATO and the Warsaw Pact >blow the crap out of each other, and France remains neutral and suffers less >damage, couldn't they "rise to power". If they suffered little damage, >wouldn't their vast farmland be able to support their people? Isn't that why >there's a border war going on in Going Home? I'm not familiar with France's >natural resources or industrial capability, but if the competition was >destroyed or reduced, wouldn't they gain the upper hand? Sure, they'd be the most powerful country in the world for a while--but still that powerful 300 years later? I kinda doubt it. Think: what was the most powerful country 300 years ago? Well, France. :) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:07:30 -0400 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings Hmm, sounds like The Morrow Project to me. B-) Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- Peace, Love, and a C-17 Globemaster III - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke)" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 12:55 PM Subject: T2K Game Settings > Has anyone tried running a T2K game set in the future? I think it would > be interesting to see what happens to post-WW3 Earth far down the road. A > lot could change in 50 years, 100 years, or even farther into the future. > The world might become more primitive...or it may rebuild itself instead. > This kind of game could go in a lot of directions and has a ton of > potential. > > T.P.M. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:21:31 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: T2K Game Settings At 07:52 PM 8/28/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >> From: Calibur1@aol.com >> >> Why not? Wouldn't NATO come into defense of the former Soviet Union? >> Considering the events of today, I think they would intervene if >> a nuclear >> power -like China- attacked them. If not, then you could alter a >> few details >> to ensure they do. After all, politics make strange bedfellows. >> > >Why not have the Russians and the Chinese start a war, then have big split >in Russia? Half the people turn back to communism and sign a peace treaty >with China. Then Russia is in a civil war. Western Europe starts to help >the non-communists. China starts to help their new treaty brother commies. > Most of this is pretty good, but a Communist revolution in Poland is totally unthinkable. Ukraine? Maybe--probably a civil war between Russian-speaking east and Ukrainian nationalist west. Or something interesting could happen in Romania. But of all the post-Communist countries, Poland is the _least_ likely candidate. >The communists win Russia back and bring the war to Europe. Have a >communist revolution in Poland to move the fight closer to western Europe. >Meanwhile, have a big economic downturn in the US hinder much help from us >for a while (just assume Alan Greenspan gets assinated, that alone might do >it ...). > I doubt it. :) He's good, but he's not working magic (and remember, he's the head of a board)--what he's doing is reasonably well-understood. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:57:53 EDT From: Damage169@cs.com Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings Gloria writes: > GDW > infact had a triad alliance of australia, usa, and germany held back a > alien invasion (the french got thier ass kicked! ) WHAT?!? Where did you pick this little tidbit up? Doug G *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:46:18 +0200 From: fmmeier@freshnet.de (Meier, Frank) Subject: RE: Alternate Game Mechanics Hi all, > >I was wondering if anyone out there uses a different game mechanics system > >for T:2K other than the one in the game. T:2K's system just seems so > >clunky and awkward when it comes to combat. I've been examining other > >systems to see which ones might work...Shadowrun's looks like it could > >work, and Recon's might too with a bit of tweaking. What do you guys use? I am just working on a conversion to the Fuzion System. It's free and very similar to Cyberpunk 2020 or the Hero System (actually it's a mixture of both). The combat rules are fast and lethal. The character generation is quite flexible and the best of all, the basic rules are free (look at http:www.talsorian.com/ and follow the Fuzion link). There are also a lot of rules plugin available on the WWW. At the moment I am collecting a equipment list and creating the rules for Vehicle combat, as the Fuzion rules are not very good in this area. The Basic rules (Character Generation, Combat, Healing, etc..) are finished in a BETA state.The companion website (http:www.fuzion2000.de) will be up in the near future. If anybody is interested I can send the BETA rules to you. (Filesize about 300 kb; word 97 doc). Bye, Frank *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:11:06 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings ><< Why would you have to run the game to find out? GDW already dictated what >would happen, in the 2300AD timeline--and when they did, that's when I >stopped buying TW2K products. >> > >He probably never saw the product. From what I remember, it didn't last long >or go over well. I did hear they put out some resource books and adventure >modules, but I never had the game myself. It's actually a great game, it has one of the few non-insulting faster than light drives in a science fiction game. While I don't subscribe to the list anymore, it's a good list. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:23:02 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings Calibur1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/28/00 1:54:12 PM, Calibur1@aol.com writes: > > << << My roommate and I have been kicking around a variant T2K setting for > Twilight: 2015, in which history starts diverging in the present day and the > Twilight War gets pushed up to 2009-2015. The ignition source is a Chinese > invasion of the former Soviet Union. Our big sticking point, though, is how > things go to hell in Europe - a Far Eastern conflict doesn't really serve to > drag Germany, Poland, et alia into the war. >> > > Why not? Wouldn't NATO come into defense of the former Soviet Union? > Considering the events of today, I think they would intervene if a nuclear > power -like China- attacked them. If not, then you could alter a few details > to ensure they do. After all, politics make strange bedfellows. >> > > About an hour after I wrote the reply to this e-mail I said, "Huh?" I thought > you meant how to get those countries involved in the war. You really meant > how can conventional war brake out IN those countries. OK, well, not being fam > iliar with the political conditions in your campaign, I would say you could > still stick to the original background material in the book. As the war drags > on the Chinese/Soviet border, a splinter Russian army (and Czech) decides > it's time to take back what they feel rightfully belongs to them...Poland. I > don't know, it's something to think about. Czechoslovakia invading Poland? Wouldn't that be like Canada invading the US? - -- Peter Vieth | fitek@ix.netcom.com | http://sanitarium.scizzors.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:59:06 +0900 From: "B Little" Subject: RE: T2K Game Settings Peter Vieth wrote: > >Czechoslovakia invading Poland? Wouldn't that be like Canada invading the US? > >-- >Peter Vieth Shhhhh... don't give away our invasion plans like that!!! Blaine Little *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:14:39 GMT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings >From: Scott David Orr > >At 11:55 AM 8/28/00 -0500, Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) wrote: > >Has anyone tried running a T2K game set in the future? I think it would > >be interesting to see what happens to post-WW3 Earth far down the road. >A > >lot could change in 50 years, 100 years, or even farther into the future. > >The world might become more primitive...or it may rebuild itself instead. > >This kind of game could go in a lot of directions and has a ton of > >potential. > > >Why would you have to run the game to find out? GDW already dictated what >would happen, in the 2300AD timeline--and when they did, that's when I >stopped buying TW2K products. This sounds a little bitter, for no apparent reason. Aside from the French being a dominant power (excuse me while I laugh my *** off), nothing in the 2300AD setting was especially offensive. And you always have to option to ignore it. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope http://www.geocities.com/copeab _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:20:14 GMT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings >From: Calibur1@aol.com > >In a message dated 8/28/00 5:57:26 PM, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: > ><< Why would you have to run the game to find out? GDW already dictated >what >would happen, in the 2300AD timeline--and when they did, that's when I >stopped buying TW2K products. >> > >He probably never saw the product. From what I remember, it didn't last >long >or go over well. I did hear they put out some resource books and adventure >modules, but I never had the game myself. I've got it, and it's quite good (although the damage resolution system, like in all other GDW games, stunk). The main problem was that people bought it expecting it to be a game set early in the Traveller timeline (the original game was called Traveller 2300); when people realized it wasn't what they were expecting, the demand for it really dropped. Regarding the French: As silly as a French empire in 2300 may sound, exactly which countries in the year 2000 were in better shape?Australia, perhaps? Anyone else? A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope http://www.geocities.com/copeab _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:04:25 GMT From: "Charles York" Subject: In defense of 2300 I'm probably one of the most unlikely defender of 2300: I didn't like the game engine, most of the "future" technology, the political environment, or a number of the ways space was colonized. (I was an collector nonetheless, primarily for their hard science approach to planetary exploration and their colonial atlas) Still, 2300 shouldn't be easily brushed aside: First, yes it is a PROJECTION of the T2K world, set 300 years later. Players who bitch that their destiny is now predetermined are forgetting that: 1) it was kept intentionally vague for well over double the characters' lifespans 2) A squad of characters, no matter how proficient, are not going to make globally revolutionary changes to the world in most campaigns. 3) The projections were made through a large scale "strategy game" played by the designers, and like any game, different results will come through different sessions. There's no reason your world will end up like that. Now, for the French. While I admit the I found the idea of a French Superpower ridiculous, the events of T2k (1st edition) left them at an advantage. The French were one of the few 1st world powers not crushed by the twilight war. While their refieries were targeted, they were neutral, and profited from their trade of nonmilitary goods to both sides. Even with the damage they suffered, the French ended the war at an economic advantage better than much of the world. Just as the war permitted 3rd world nations to "catch up" with their embattled 1st world neighbors, the French found a void to fill. Possibly to stem the the tide of refugees, they assumed a french "marshall plan." Their infrastructure was largely intact, their shipping was intact, and the remaining nations needed economic assistance. It would be a perfect time for the French to make some lasting ties. In fact, IIRC, the "French Empire" included controlling interests in much of north and central africa, all aligned together from a common rebuilding effort. These controlling interests were given full "French citizenship, vastly increasing the national population as well as natural resources. By the time of 2300, the French superpower was in decline. Their offworld holdings were seeking independence, their regional superiority was challenged, and the majority of failures in the war against the "Kafer" aliens were French defeats. Victory came only when Anglo-American forces arrived to assist. The French had kept their dominance not because of any true might, but because of the wariness of the other nations to risk another twilight war... A final point: I collected only the Traveller:2300 and 2300AD books that met my interest, and that was not even half of the supplements, and I have a dozen books. I'd put the number of books / supplements at close to two dozen. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:14:13 GMT From: "Charles York" Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings >From: Damage169@cs.com >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >Subject: Re: T2K Game Settings >Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:57:53 EDT > >Gloria writes: > > > GDW > > infact had a triad alliance of australia, usa, and germany held back a > > alien invasion (the french got thier ass kicked! ) > >WHAT?!? Where did you pick this little tidbit up? > >Doug G If I recall, 2300 AD's "Invasion" has the French arm decimated. The French and euro forces were well-equipped, but their tactics fell to neatly into the Kafer strategy. *The alien forces- Kafer- operated with a killer adrenaline system, and got progressively faster and smarter through the battle, but more lethargic in between battles. The french battle strategy included prolonged engagements of slow-moving, heavy warships. they were easy prey. Victory didn't come until the american Kennedy-class rapid misile cruisers, Germany's Bismarck Battleship (smaller & faster than the French) and the Aussie forces arrived. I recall a Brit force as well, but can't recall when they arrived to battle. But- at the end of the series, the war wasn't over. The humans had pushed back an invasion fleet equivalent to just one Terran nation, and now the other Kafer nations were mobilizing- fearing invasion from the "smart barbarians" (long story). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #176 *************************************