twilight2000-digest Wednesday, August 16 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 174 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Lots of boat questions!! Re: Lots of boat questions!! Re: Lots of boat questions!! Re: Lots of boat questions!! Re: Lots of boat questions!! unidentified amphibian Re: Lots of boat questions!! Lack of T2K at GenCon Re: Lots of boat questions!! About horses and mules RE: Lack of T2K at GenCon Re: About horses and mules Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon RE: Lack of T2K at GenCon Just trying to see if I did it right Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon Re: About horses and mules RE: Lack of T2K at GenCon Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:55:06 AKDT From: "Daniel G" Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! >From: Scott David Orr >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! >Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 19:50:34 -0400 > >At 03:16 PM 8/13/00 AKDT, Daniel G wrote: > > (snip) > >I don't understand about the grenades: how did they protect against >mortars? > >Scott Orr Sorry, meant to write "borders" - -Daniel >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 16:56:06 AKDT From: "Daniel G" Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! >From: "Brandon Cope" >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! >Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:27:33 GMT > (snip) > >What about an M167 taken off it's trailer? (Or should that me the M163)? >Main problem is ammo consumption ... > What's and M167? - -Daniel > >A generous and sadistic GM, >Brandon Cope > >http://www.geocities.com/copeab > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:10:28 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! >> Many ideas for waterborne weaponry can be taken from the PT boat. Has >>anyone tried nebelwerfer-style barrage rockets? Not too accurate, but they >>pack a punch. Also, you could strip the FC package off a ZSU or Sgt. York. >>This gives you the same punch with less weight. > >What about an M167 taken off it's trailer? (Or should that me the M163)? >Main problem is ammo consumption ... A 25mm Bushmaster from a LAV or M2 would be better, you can crank the cyclic rate of fire down so it's not as profligate as the vulcans. I wish I'd known at the time that the TT model M2HB .50 cal had twice the ROF of the normal ones! We actually got to the point where we had tons of groovy guns and not enough people to run them. In VietNam, the US used Monitors that had 1 x 40mm Autocannon, 2 x 20mm Autocannons (in separate turrets) auto GLs and .50 cal's galore and some had *big* flamethrowers called 'zippos'. They used 'bar armour' that was a stand off armour designed to detonate RPGs before the hit the hull. They also mounted the 4.2 inch Mortars in big shielded wells. These were all mounted on Barges or LCMs (land craft, medium). 105mm artillery was often used from these vessels, but of course they only ever were used in the rivers Here's a great site with pictures of the vessels in action: http://www.mrfa.org/Ophoto1.htm Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:05:44 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! >> >>What about an M167 taken off it's trailer? (Or should that me the M163)? >>Main problem is ammo consumption ... >> >What's and M167? >-Daniel > 20mm Gatling air defense gun used by the US Army. One version, the M167, is trailer mounted. The other version used by the US is mounted on a modified M113 chassis. Despite the incredible rate of fire, it's pretty short ranged for an air defense gun and lacks a good fire control suite. Least that's what I've read. The flipside to all this is that it would be devastating against ground troops and light fortifications. For those who want to try mounting one, the stats I have on the trailer version says it ways about 1.8 tons. Regards, JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 17:06:22 GMT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! >From: "Daniel G" > >>From: "Brandon Cope" >> >>What about an M167 taken off it's trailer? (Or should that me the M163)? >>Main problem is ammo consumption ... >> >What's and M167? Forgive me if I get the two switched, but: The M163 is an M113 with a 20mm Vulcan canon (same as used on aircraft) in a AA mount. I think it has ranging radar, but is otherwise a fair weather (only) system. I think they were withdrawn from service (In The Real World) in the early/mid 1990's. The M167 was the same gun mounted on a two-wheeled trailer. I think it was withdrawn about the same time as the M167. Oddly, one used linkless ammo and the other was linked (I can't rememebr which). A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope http://www.geocities.com/copeab ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:34:26 AKDT From: "Daniel G" Subject: unidentified amphibian Can anyone identify this craft? http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/larc-navy673.jpg http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/larc-navy673-2.jpg The site identifies it as a LARC-60, but it isn't. I was thinking it would be fun in twilight. Amphibious and plenty of room for guns. What better combo could there be? Thanks, Daniel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 22:32:45 -0500 From: Craig Gulledge Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > > > Here's a great site with pictures of the vessels in action: > http://www.mrfa.org/Ophoto1.htm > > Jim > Hey! Great pics, very interesting, definitely inspirational. Just the nudge I need for my Mississippi Riverine Campaign idea. - -- Craig S. Gulledge "If you hear a redneck exclaim, "Hey, y'all, watch this!" Stay out of his way. These are likely the last words he will ever say." - - Rule #8 from "Advice for Moving to Texas"- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:07:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) Subject: Lack of T2K at GenCon I spent this past weekend at GenCon in Milwaukee. It was one of the best times I ever had, but I noticed a distinct lack of anything T2K related. I went to every booth that sold out-of-print stuff, and I remember only one that had any T2K items (a bunch of Rezendevous in Krakow modules and that Gulf War sourcebook). This seemed strange, given that I could find pretty much anything else ever made somewhere at GenCon. Plus, of all the games being run, none were T2K. I was suprised that, again, of all the game systems represented at the Con, T@K was not. So, why is it that a game published by a well-known company that had a lot of stuff put out for it is played by such a seemingly small amount of people? Yes, it is out of print, but that doesn't stop a lot of other games from getting more attention. Any thoughts on this? T.P.M. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:27:20 -0700 From: "Andrew Kolb" Subject: Re: Lots of boat questions!! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C006E6.72B23420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks every one, this is a lot of info. It will take time digest. We = are reorganizing our command structure, the jerk that demanded he be the = GM because he is the "best" (he sucked at it) has stopped showing up, he = was the only person aside from me that had a main rule book, one of the = girls had the heavy weapon guide but she gave it to me. So it looks like = I will be the GM. Not that I mind but this is a really fun game to PLAY. = There are only five players plus me now. Three girls two guys. We tried = Saturday night with me being the GM and the new girl, who had never = played an RPG before. We didn=92t actually play we just made new = characters so my idea for a battle tug is on hold, but it may show up as = an adversary some day. Much to my displeasure they decided that they did = not want to have to worry about fuel so they intend to roll for animals = next session, before we begin. I had never looked at the animals very = well until now. I have made a few revisions to the horses and mules that = I think will make them more realistic. I will post them separately.=20 Thanks every one! I appreciate it. Andrew - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C006E6.72B23420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks every one, this is a lot of info. It will take time digest. We = are=20 reorganizing our command structure, the jerk that demanded he be the GM = because=20 he is the "best" (he sucked at it) has stopped showing up, he = was the=20 only person aside from me that had a main rule book, one of the girls = had the=20 heavy weapon guide but she gave it to me. So it looks like I will be the = GM. Not=20 that I mind but this is a really fun game to PLAY. There are only five = players=20 plus me now. Three girls two guys. We tried Saturday night with me being = the GM=20 and the new girl, who had never played an RPG before. We didn’t = actually=20 play we just made new characters so my idea for a battle tug is on hold, = but it=20 may show up as an adversary some day. Much to my displeasure they = decided that=20 they did not want to have to worry about fuel so they intend to roll for = animals=20 next session, before we begin. I had never looked at the animals very = well until=20 now. I have made a few revisions to the horses and mules that I think = will make=20 them more realistic. I will post them separately. Thanks every one! I appreciate it. Andrew - ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C006E6.72B23420-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:29:24 -0700 From: "Andrew Kolb" Subject: About horses and mules This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C006E6.BCAEF040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I personally think that the rules are a bit off. There is no reason to = breed a mule to be smaller than a horse. Mules are just plainly tougher = than horses. They stand heat better, work longer, pull more and they = have bigger round feet so that they are able to work better in sand and = mud. On the down side they are not as fast as horses, are generally more = stubborn and when I spoke to my grand father who grew up farming with = horses and mules he said that as far as he could remember every one he = knew of that was killed by a draft animal was killed by a mule kicking = them in the chest or head, generally while hooking them up to a wagon or = some type of farm equipment. As they eat less than horse I would say = keep the feed the same but make the Meat 100 kg Load 140 Kg and Weight = 360 Kg. I would also say anything you try to do with a mule should be = one step harder unless you are well experienced in working with mules. Naturally my knowledge is limited to mules bred in the USA but I don=92t = see any reason for European mules to be bred smaller than horses. Andrew - ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C006E6.BCAEF040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I personally think that the rules are a bit off. There is no reason = to breed=20 a mule to be smaller than a horse. Mules are just plainly tougher than = horses.=20 They stand heat better, work longer, pull more and they have bigger = round feet=20 so that they are able to work better in sand and mud. On the down side = they are=20 not as fast as horses, are generally more stubborn and when I spoke to = my grand=20 father who grew up farming with horses and mules he said that as far as = he could=20 remember every one he knew of that was killed by a draft animal was = killed by a=20 mule kicking them in the chest or head, generally while hooking them up = to a=20 wagon or some type of farm equipment. As they eat less than horse I = would say=20 keep the feed the same but make the Meat 100 kg Load 140 Kg and Weight = 360 Kg. I=20 would also say anything you try to do with a mule should be one step = harder=20 unless you are well experienced in working with mules. Naturally my knowledge is limited to mules bred in the USA but I = don’t=20 see any reason for European mules to be bred smaller than horses. Andrew - ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C006E6.BCAEF040-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:47:16 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Lack of T2K at GenCon > From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) > > So, why is it that a game published by a well-known company that had a lot > of stuff put out for it is played by such a seemingly small amount of > people? Yes, it is out of print, but that doesn't stop a lot of other > games from getting more attention. Any thoughts on this? T2K is the only role playing game I've ever played that's only primary fantasy element is a few economic facts and a few foreign policy decisions by key countries. I think the reason is that most people who are drawn to role playing are more into games with a larger fictional/fastasy element to them. Most people who would like T2K probably tend to end up playing strategy war games that don't have any role playing elements. Well, for whatever reasons, the fact remains that T2K isn't very mainstream (and probably won't be). It walks a line between simulation games and fantasy role playing that just seems to miss a lot of people. Also, the game isn't nearly as upbeat as a lot of games. In fact, it can be downright depressing at times. T2K has the worst ratio of "character making" to playing hours of any game I've ever played. One hand grenade and the whole group is rolling new guys! A lot of people can't handle that. Plus, you can't find a +5 Holy Avenger Vorpal Flaming Main Battle Tank in T2K ... and some people can't handle it when their character can't take on an entire tank division and only get down to 50% health; then without reloading, plane shift to the dimension of armored vehicles and defeat the god of the main battle tank with your Tank Breaker of Ultimate Power, so you can make it to 36th level before the pizza gets delivered. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:49:06 AKDT From: "Daniel G" Subject: Re: About horses and mules Does anyone know of rules for donkeys? Also, could you make crude body armor for animals out of old flak jackets. In our game, we ended up with lots of Soviet/Pact flak jackets. We kept the good kevlar for ourselves, but the others were just dead weight. How about the inserts in a large horse blanket like they use in bullfights for the guys with pikes? - -Daniel >From: "Andrew Kolb" >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >To: >Subject: About horses and mules >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:29:24 -0700 > >I personally think that the rules are a bit off. There is no reason to >breed a mule to be smaller than a horse(snip)> ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:06:53 -0500 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon I also think some of it may have to do with the apparent lack of interest on the part of the company that holds the copyright on the game. If the folks who run GenCon inquired about having Twilight:2000 events and were told "no", that could be a big factor. You find lots of events at GenCon for much more obscure games than Twilight:2000. Walter Rebsch wrote: > > From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) > > > > So, why is it that a game published by a well-known company that had a lot > > of stuff put out for it is played by such a seemingly small amount of > > people? Yes, it is out of print, but that doesn't stop a lot of other > > games from getting more attention. Any thoughts on this? > > T2K is the only role playing game I've ever played that's only primary > fantasy element is a few economic facts and a few foreign policy decisions > by key countries. > It's funny that it started out as speculative fiction and ended up as speculative history. Just as well, I guess. > > I think the reason is that most people who are drawn to role playing are > more into games with a larger fictional/fastasy element to them. Most > people who would like T2K probably tend to end up playing strategy war games > that don't have any role playing elements. > Possibly. Certainly the number of "hardware" discussions on this list outnumbers the number of discussions about game ideas or characters. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. On the other hand, it was one of the only "post-apocalyptic" games I've ever seen that wasn't utterly hopeless. It gave the players the option to rebuild things, restore order, and defeat the bad guys, even if that wasn't easy or quick. > Also, the game isn't nearly as upbeat as a lot of games. In fact, it can be > downright depressing at times. T2K has the worst ratio of "character > making" to playing hours of any game I've ever played. One hand grenade and > the whole group is rolling new guys! A lot of people can't handle that. > I think this can occur in a lot of games, and it's more a case of the GM's discretion than anything. I wouldn't wipe out a group of PCs just because of a random roll of the dice, especially not if they were having fun and, well...having an adventure. That's just not very satisfying to them or to me, no matter how "realistic" the grenade rules might be. > > Plus, you can't find a +5 Holy Avenger Vorpal Flaming Main Battle Tank in > T2K ... and some people can't handle it when their character can't take on > an entire tank division and only get down to 50% health; then without > reloading, plane shift to the dimension of armored vehicles and defeat the > god of the main battle tank with your Tank Breaker of Ultimate Power, so you > can make it to 36th level before the pizza gets delivered. > True. But I've seen some pretty ridiculous Twilight characters, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:09:58 -0500 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon I also think some of it may have to do with the apparent lack of interest on the part of the company that holds the copyright on the game. If the folks who run GenCon inquired about having Twilight:2000 events and were told "no", that could be a big factor. You find lots of events at GenCon for much more obscure games than Twilight:2000. Walter Rebsch wrote: > > From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) > > > > So, why is it that a game published by a well-known company that had a lot > > of stuff put out for it is played by such a seemingly small amount of > > people? Yes, it is out of print, but that doesn't stop a lot of other > > games from getting more attention. Any thoughts on this? > > T2K is the only role playing game I've ever played that's only primary > fantasy element is a few economic facts and a few foreign policy decisions > by key countries. > It's funny that it started out as speculative fiction and ended up as speculative history. Just as well, I guess. > > I think the reason is that most people who are drawn to role playing are > more into games with a larger fictional/fastasy element to them. Most > people who would like T2K probably tend to end up playing strategy war games > that don't have any role playing elements. Possibly. Certainly the number of "hardware" discussions on this list outnumbers the number of discussions about game ideas or characters. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. On the other hand, it was one of the only "post-apocalyptic" games I've ever seen that wasn't utterly hopeless. It gave the players the option to rebuild things, restore order, and defeat the bad guys, even if that wasn't easy or quick. > Also, the game isn't nearly as upbeat as a lot of games. In fact, it can be > downright depressing at times. T2K has the worst ratio of "character > making" to playing hours of any game I've ever played. One hand grenade and > the whole group is rolling new guys! A lot of people can't handle that. I think this can occur in a lot of games, and it's more a case of the GM's discretion than anything. I wouldn't wipe out a group of PCs just because of a random roll of the dice, especially not if they were having fun and, well...having an adventure. That's just not very satisfying to them or to me, no matter how "realistic" the grenade rules might be. > > Plus, you can't find a +5 Holy Avenger Vorpal Flaming Main Battle Tank in > T2K ... and some people can't handle it when their character can't take on > an entire tank division and only get down to 50% health; then without > reloading, plane shift to the dimension of armored vehicles and defeat the > god of the main battle tank with your Tank Breaker of Ultimate Power, so you > can make it to 36th level before the pizza gets delivered. True. But I've seen some pretty ridiculous Twilight characters, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:02:21 -0700 From: Snake Eyes Subject: RE: Lack of T2K at GenCon - --=====================_108194566==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:47 PM 8/15/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >I think the reason is that most people who are drawn to role playing are >more into games with a larger fictional/fastasy element to them. Most >people who would like T2K probably tend to end up playing strategy war >games that don't have any role playing elements. I don't know that I agree with that last part (although it probably holds true) in that T:2K/Merc:2K provides ample opportunity for both actual role-playing and semi-realistic hard-core small unit combat without the shadow of all that silly Monty Haul/hack & slash/dungeon crawl crap hanging over it. That's what attracted my friends and I, anyway. I love RPG's in general, but I really hate the way most folks -- who are so inclined -- go about playing AD&D. >Plus, you can't find a +5 Holy Avenger Vorpal Flaming Main Battle Tank in >T2K ... and some people can't handle it when their character can't take on >an entire tank division and only get down to 50% health; then without >reloading, plane shift to the dimension of armored vehicles and defeat the >god of the main battle tank with your Tank Breaker of Ultimate Power, so >you can make it to 36th level before the pizza gets delivered. That was f*cking hilarious. So sad but so true. Any of you that can handle the 15 MB download should check out this movie link. It sums up just about everything I ever hated about "fantasy" role-players. If you have the bandwidth, it's well worth the effort. http://download.ign.com/psx/summonergeeks.exe ~ Snake Eyes - --=====================_108194566==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 08:47 PM 8/15/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: I think the reason is that most people who are drawn to role playing are more into games with a larger fictional/fastasy element to them. Most people who would like T2K probably tend to end up playing strategy war games that don't have any role playing elements. I don't know that I agree with that last part (although it probably holds true) in that T:2K/Merc:2K provides ample opportunity for both actual role-playing and semi-realistic hard-core small unit combat without the shadow of all that silly Monty Haul/hack & slash/dungeon crawl crap hanging over it. That's what attracted my friends and I, anyway. I love RPG's in general, but I really hate the way most folks -- who are so inclined -- go about playing AD&D. Plus, you can't find a +5 Holy Avenger Vorpal Flaming Main Battle Tank in T2K ... and some people can't handle it when their character can't take on an entire tank division and only get down to 50% health; then without reloading, plane shift to the dimension of armored vehicles and defeat the god of the main battle tank with your Tank Breaker of Ultimate Power, so you can make it to 36th level before the pizza gets delivered. That was f*cking hilarious. So sad but so true. Any of you that can handle the 15 MB download should check out this movie link. It sums up just about everything I ever hated about "fantasy" role-players. If you have the bandwidth, it's well worth the effort. http://download.ign.com/psx/summonergeeks.exe ~ Snake Eyes - --=====================_108194566==_.ALT-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:28:15 CDT From: "Kassi Allen" Subject: Just trying to see if I did it right I'm just trying to see if this works I don't under stand all that stuff I got e-mailed about subscribing and stuff. Kassi Allen ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:45:57 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon Walter Rebsch wrote: > > Also, the game isn't nearly as upbeat as a lot of games. In fact, it can be > downright depressing at times. T2K has the worst ratio of "character > making" to playing hours of any game I've ever played. One hand grenade and > the whole group is rolling new guys! A lot of people can't handle that. > No, having played Paranoia this weekend, Paranoia holds that distinction (this weekends body count: 1500 (ok only 6 PCs, but countless party NPCs and bystanders). > > Plus, you can't find a +5 Holy Avenger Vorpal Flaming Main Battle Tank in > T2K ... and some people can't handle it when their character can't take on > an entire tank division and only get down to 50% health; then without > reloading, plane shift to the dimension of armored vehicles and defeat the > god of the main battle tank with your Tank Breaker of Ultimate Power, so you > can make it to 36th level before the pizza gets delivered. > > Walter That caravan of T-90s does a pretty good job - -- Peter Vieth | fitek@ix.netcom.com | http://sanitarium.scizzors.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:00:06 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon Rob Barnes wrote: > > Possibly. Certainly the number of "hardware" discussions on this list > outnumbers the number of discussions about game ideas or characters. For anyone who wants a more detailed character creation process I really suggest looking at Top Secret/S.I. The system is very similar to T2k, but the character creation is more detailed than any other system I have seen. Its not just roll stats, come up with a personality and profession/class. At first I thought the advantages/disadvantages system and some other details were too restricting but now I believe its very good to have character attitudes and details, etc written down... I know when I come back to my AD&D bard character after several months it's hard to exactly remember the character I envisioned 3 years ago... not to mention that there were many things I never thought about. - - Peter Vieth | fitek@ix.netcom.com | http://sanitarium.scizzors.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:57:01 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: About horses and mules I personally think that the rules are a bit off. There is no reason to breed a mule to be smaller than a horse. Mules are just plainly tougher than horses. They stand heat better, work longer, pull more and they have bigger round feet so that they are able to work better in sand and mud. On the down side they are not as fast as horses, are generally more stubborn and when I spoke to my grand father who grew up farming with horses and mules he said that as far as he could remember every one he knew of that was killed by a draft animal was killed by a mule kicking them in the chest or head, generally while hooking them up to a wagon or some type of farm equipment. As they eat less than horse I would say keep the feed the same but make the Meat 100 kg Load 140 Kg and Weight 360 Kg. I would also say anything you try to do with a mule should be one step harder unless you are well experienced in working with mules. Naturally my knowledge is limited to mules bred in the USA but I don’t see any reason for European mules to be bred smaller than horses. Andrew ] This is freaky! I've just been studying up for the Mule because I've done the Runequest stats for them on my site, like yesterday! The American Jack Standard Mule is the largest in the world, it's as big as a draft horse. A monster. Most Mules aren't this big though, the she-donky's genes make them more compact but you're dead on about their heat resistance. It is true that they're generally a bit smaller than your average riding hack though, about 1-2 hands (4"-8"). They share a habit of camels in that they'll only drink to replace lost body fluids, this means they almost never founder (gorge on water when overheated, generally fatal). Mules aren't actually stubborn, they're smart. It's almost impossible to work a mule to death, it just won't do it. They look at you with this "nope" look, on the other hand a horse can literally be run to death, they're *that* stupid. Horses need grain if they're going to work too, about 25% should be grain if they're going to work (ie: be ridden) and every fourth day you really should give them a break. If you don't, look at having 5% of your horses die each 7 days (5% of the starting total). Horses won't graze in the dark in an unfamiliar area, so early starts are out. The are scared of everything too, being on a horse that's panicking because it's just seen a bright plastic bucket is an experience that no carnival ride has ever equalled for me. Probably because a carnival ride won't leave you in a wheelchair very easily! Mules can lug 100kg to 150kg depending on the breed, they're less prone to panic and have tougher skin than horses too. They can't run for peanuts but they can climb really well, because their feet are more upright and boxy. Being smarter than a horse they won't go where they'll break a leg if they can help it which adds to their clambering ability. Finally, they get sick less often, they have 'Hybrid Vigour' which gives them best disease resistance of both gene pools. A final little fact, Mules can only pack 21 days of their own food. In other words, they'll eat their load every three weeks so you still have to hunt and gather. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:23:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) Subject: RE: Lack of T2K at GenCon > That was f*cking hilarious. So sad but so true. Any of you that can > handle the 15 MB download should check out this movie link. It sums up > just about everything I ever hated about "fantasy" role-players. If you > have the bandwidth, it's well worth the effort. > > http://download.ign.com/psx/summonergeeks.exe I saw that movie at GenCon, and nearly fell on the floor laughing. They were playing it at the booth for the company that makes Summoner (I forgot the name), and every time it played there were crowds of people watching it. What I thought was funny was that most of these people were the type of gamer the movie was lampooning. T.P.M. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:29:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) Subject: Re: Lack of T2K at GenCon > > Also, the game isn't nearly as upbeat as a lot of games. In fact, it can be > > downright depressing at times. T2K has the worst ratio of "character > > making" to playing hours of any game I've ever played. One hand grenade and > > the whole group is rolling new guys! A lot of people can't handle that. > > > > No, having played Paranoia this weekend, Paranoia holds that distinction (this > weekends body count: 1500 (ok only 6 PCs, but countless party NPCs and > bystanders). Recon might have a worse ratio than T2K, if such a thing is possible. In that game they actually go out and say that a lot of PCs are going to get whacked pretty much no matter what. Of course, the game has much faster character generation also. T.P.M. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #174 *************************************