twilight2000-digest Monday, August 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 171 The following topics are covered in this digest: In need of T:2k info Re: Here's an awkward one for you military types out there... RE: In need of T:2k info Re: In need of T:2k info Re: In need of T:2k info RE: In need of T:2k info Re: In need of T:2k info Re: Here's an awkward one for you military types out there... Re: In need of T:2k info Re: In need of T:2k info Re: Jane's books Re: Jane's books What Happened to the Israeli's? Re: What Happened to the Israeli's? Re: What Happened to the Israeli's? Re: What Happened to the Israeli's? Re: Here's an awkward one for you military types out there... Re: Jane's books Re: Jane's books Rifle Grenades Re: Rifle Grenades Re: Rifle Grenades Re: Rifle Grenades Re: Rifle Grenades Re: Rifle Grenades MP TOE P-3 Orion Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 01:14:27 EDT From: FlankerMan@aol.com Subject: In need of T:2k info I have some questions 1. Is jet fuel and chopper fuel equal in game terms? Can there be substiutes(Alcahol, Methanol)? 2. Does any have or know where I can get stats on Oil tankers?(T:2k info and real info) 3. Does anyone have or know where I can get stats of UH-60's? Av-8's? or BMP-3's? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 00:17:42 -0600 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: Here's an awkward one for you military types out there... > > > I'm looking for unclassified / OSINT (Open Source INTelligence, which is > unclassified in its raw state anyhow) on this. > > Anyone help? I can provide some info on this regard: email me at my address on Wednsday night and I'll compile it on Thursday (one of my days off) T.R. Rogue09@Sprynet.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:00:07 -0500 From: "Paul Mulcahy" Subject: RE: In need of T:2k info I have some questions 1. Is jet fuel and chopper fuel equal in game terms? Can there be substiutes(Alcahol, Methanol)? 2. Does any have or know where I can get stats on Oil tankers?(T:2k info and real info) 3. Does anyone have or know where I can get stats of UH-60's? Av-8's? or BMP-3's? I don't know whether jet fuel and chopper fuel are equivalent, but the original rules for helicopters in Free City of Krakow say that helicopters cannot use anything but AvGas. The rest of the fuel does not produce the energy required to power a chopper. As for the rest of your questions, I suggest the Jane's series of reference books. If your rich, you could buy them on Amazon.com or the Jane's web site; otherwise, check your local library. If you have access to a military base's library (some are open posts) it will be easy to find these books there. In most cases, you will not be able to check them out, however, since they are considered reference works in most libraries. Probably because they cost $100-300 per volume! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:03:40 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: In need of T:2k info > >2. Does any have or know where I can get stats on Oil tankers?(T:2k info and >real info) Tankers as in ships or like 10k Liter semi-trucks? > >3. Does anyone have or know where I can get stats of UH-60's? Av-8's? or >BMP-3's? From the Nautical/Aviation Handbook UH-60 Merc 2000 Prices $11,250,000 (R/C) T2K Prices 22,500,0000 (S/R) Armament 2 x M60 door guns Port/Starboard Ammo 1000 x 7.62mm N Fuel Type AVG Load 1100 kg internal or 3600 kg slung load instead Weight 22 tons crew 3 + 11 Maintenance 12 (Seems pretty optmisitc considering an M1 has Mnt 14) Min Landing/Take Off zone 48m TR Mov 1076 Combat Move 29 Fuel Cap 3500 Fuel Cons 3500 Has Chaff/flare dispensers and IR Supression AV-8B Merc 2000 Price 21,000,000 (-/S) Twilight 42,000,000 (R/-) Armament one fixed GAU-12 25mm Gatling Ammo 300 x 25 Fuel AvG Load 4000 kg on 5 hardpoints (Not sure this is correct, believe that USMC AV-8Bs have 7 hardpoints) Weight 12.4 Tons Crew 1 Maintenance 12 (Ditto on comments above) Runway Primitive Min Runway Takeoff/Land STVOL: 448/16m, conventional 448/504m TR mov 3408 Com Mov 106 Fuel Cap 4200 Fuel Cons 6400 The Eastern Europe book has stats on the BMP-3, but I can't find mine right now. If you need more concrete real world stats, try www.fas.org www.army-technology.com www.airforce-technology.com http://hometown.aol.com/threatmstr/ptwserg.html has a pretty good article on the BMP-3 too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:29:29 EDT From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: In need of T:2k info Actually on the subject of Janes books, you don't have to be totally loaded to buy these books. (I'm not sure where you actually are, the local situation might be different, but I know from experience that this is right where I am!!) If you go to your local library, they might do a sale on their old books. This naturally enough includes the Janes books!! (I know for a fact that my Library once sold the Janes Book of Infantry Weapons (all 2 tons of it :-)) and I believe that they have sold other Janes Books (I think the Naval Ships version was one.) So keep your eyes peeled, maybe your local library do a similar deal!! (BTW I believe the books only cost a fiver!! (I might be wrong though, this happened a couple of years ago and I'm not exactly sure that I have the price right!!)) So if you are looking for books, and are not too worried that they are slightly out of date, look in your local Library!! Hope this helps!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------------- If all the Gnus from London Zoo, disapeared forever. They'd have to say "That's the end of the Gnus and now it's time for the weather" (Unknown Author) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:40:40 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: In need of T:2k info > From: JC > > >3. Does anyone have or know where I can get stats of UH-60's? Av-8's? or > >BMP-3's? > > From the Nautical/Aviation Handbook > UH-60 > Merc 2000 Prices $11,250,000 (R/C) > T2K Prices 22,500,0000 (S/R) > > Armament 2 x M60 door guns Port/Starboard > Ammo 1000 x 7.62mm N > Fuel Type AVG > Load 1100 kg internal or 3600 kg slung load instead > Weight 22 tons > crew 3 + 11 > Maintenance 12 (Seems pretty optmisitc considering an M1 has Mnt 14) > Min Landing/Take Off zone 48m > TR Mov 1076 > Combat Move 29 > Fuel Cap 3500 > Fuel Cons 3500 > > Has Chaff/flare dispensers and IR Supression Bear in mind that the door guns are M60D's, which is identical to the M60, except the pistol grip is removed, a double-D handle attached at the rear, and the trigger is remoted to the rear also. They have no special provisions for ammo or ammo feeding. So that stat of 1000 x 7.62 N is really kinda meaningless. The machineguns are attached to a double-jointed suspension arm to hold it, and they attach the ammo can onto the assembly also. So you have a full standard ammo can of bullets available at any time (however much that is). There are also miniguns than can be used instead of M60D's, but we didn't have them. :( You didn't have to use M60D's. Any M60 could attach to the arm, just it would be a pain in the butt to shoot it without the D handles. Also, the fuel stat doesn't take into account the possibility of the external fuel tanks on the mini-wings that can be attached. The door gunners have a special seat belt harness that allows them to lean all the way out of the airframe while in flight. So they could engage a target directly below, ahead or behind. I believe our helicopters (UH-60's) ran on JetA. Which is basically kerosene with a couple additives. My hummer ran fine on it when MoGas wasn't available. Probably not the best thing in the world to do to a diesel motor, but it ran perfectly without a hickup, so what the heck. :) Jet turbines can run any fuel that isn't too corrosive, has sufficient volatility to sustain a flame front in the combustion chamber, and that will aerosol correctly from the injector nozzles. The energy content of the gas will determine the max power available at max throttle. If the energy content of the gas is too high, then excessive heat can damage the turbine stage of the engine. If it's too low, then the proper max power won't be available. If the volatility is too low, you can always keep the engines in 'start mode'. This keeps an ignition sparking device continuously firing. Commercial airliners keep those things on during takeoff to help prevent an engine stall during the critical acceleration down the runway. But if you ran the igniter on all the time it would probably wear out. Not to mention, that the flame would probably still be burning outside the combustion chamber and maybe damage the turbine. Afterburning engines could use anything that burns in the afterburner stage, but turboshafts in a helicopter can't have afterburners. Some engines in the 60's and 70's even injected water into the exhaust nozzle area to increase thrust like kindof an inert afterburner. If you tried to run plain diesel in a turbine it would probably run very poorly, coat the combustion chamber with soot, and require you to clean the motor reqularly. Jet motors have to have clean fuel if they are to have much of a life span. All the critical parts of the motor are cooled by circulating air. Even the insides of the turbine blades themselves have little cooling vents running through them! If the ventilation holes get all clogged up, those parts will overheat and destroy themselves. Only active cooling keeps turbines from set destructing. The maintenence number actually doesn't seem very far off to me, but I wasn't a crew chief. I just hung around them a lot. What isn't represented by this number is what is called "Phase Maintenence". This is done like (here goes my memory test) every 6 months or 1000 flight hours. Here they tear the bird apart and rebuild it. IIRC, phase took about 3-4 mechanics about 2 weeks. Then, every so often (I don't remember) they did depot level maintence on them, and the engines were removed and sent off to get rebuilt. Bear in mind, they never disassembled the turboshaft engines themselves in our unit. Just the external pieces on the engine, not the rotating assembly. Only depot level guys did that. But helicopter units are equiped with a special washer unit that you could attach to the front of the engine and clean the insides of the rotating assembly. You could probably fake what that device does by pointing a fire hose into the engine while running it at full throttle. I would probably implement a rule that every phase maintence you skip increases the chance of a breakdown, and increases the chance of the wear value going up. And doing a phase temporarily decreases the chance of a breakdown, and resets any increases that your delays added. Lots of little wear parts are typically needed during phases. The depot level maintenence would reset the wear value significantly. I'd say probably half way back to 1, or 1 wear value point, whichever is more. Properly maintained birds hardly age much at all. But keep in mind that each phase maint uses a bunch of small parts. A friend of mine was a mechanic on a UH-1 in the Marines, so I could ask him stuff if anyone had questions on one of those. Also, on the sling loading of cargo under a UH-60: assuming the weather wasn't too hot, or the altitude extreme, the UH-60 could carry a full load inside, and a Hummer or 105mm Towed Howitzer (these are the most typical things we sling loaded). The sling itself is basically 4 ropes (about an inch in diameter) attached together to a heavy steel ring. Each rope had an attachment hook on its free end. It takes 2 guys on the ground to attach the sling to the cargo hook on the bottom of the UH-60. One guy has a ground rod, the other has the sling. You HAVE to ground the helicopter BEFORE you try to attach the sling or it is bad. I watched a sling attachment where the guy holding the ground rod slipped and fell just after the guy with the sling committed himself to heaving the sling onto the cargo hook. I minature bolt of lightning blew his ass clean off the Hummer he was trying to attach. He was just kinda dazed for a while. But it's really exciting to have a helicopter land on your head, while standing on top of a Hummer. We had a sling for every Hummer. So it was normally not the helicopter crews job to provide the sling. You had your own. I bet the 101st has more slings than any other unit in the army, being an Air Assault division. The pilots can 'punch out' the sling load anytime they want. One time, a bird in our unit had to drop a 105mm howitzer at about 1000 feet altitude. One engine failed, so he couldn't hold the bird in the air with the load. That poor howitzer landed tip of the barrel first and buried itself in the ground all the way up to the gun carriage. It didn't hit anything except dirt in an open field. And the arty guys that owned the gun had to go dig it out! hehe. They were cussing us up one side and down the other. That gun was permanently mangled. The tube was even bent slightly. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:05:39 EDT From: FlankerMan@aol.com Subject: Re: In need of T:2k info The Oil Tankers Im talking about are the ships, such as the ones the VLCC's(Very large crude carrier) the British in the Falklands as improvised bases for troops or supplies or something. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:51:51 +0100 From: "Roger Stenning" Subject: Re: Here's an awkward one for you military types out there... Rogue - > I can provide some info on this regard: email me at my address on Wednsday night > and I'll compile it on Thursday (one of my days off) Thanks, will do. Best regards, Roger Stenning Webmaster, the Impossible Scenarios Group www.the-isg.co.uk ICQ: 74721632 UK Amateur Radio call sign: G1LIW ________________________________________________________ LEGAL DISCLAIMER: The views expressed in this message may not be those of the ISG. The information in this email and in any attachments may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose, nor disclose all or any part of its content to any other person - you should also destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and notify the sender immediately. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 01:20:09 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: In need of T:2k info CMarkChester@aol.com wrote: > Actually on the subject of Janes books, you don't have to be totally loaded > to buy these books. (I'm not sure where you actually are, the local > situation might be different, but I know from experience that this is right > where I am!!) If you go to your local library, they might do a sale on their > old books. This naturally enough includes the Janes books!! (I know for a > fact that my Library once sold the Janes Book of Infantry Weapons (all 2 tons > of it :-)) and I believe that they have sold other Janes Books (I think the > Naval Ships version was one.) So keep your eyes peeled, maybe your local > library do a similar deal!! (BTW I believe the books only cost a fiver!! (I > might be wrong though, this happened a couple of years ago and I'm not > exactly sure that I have the price right!!)) So if you are looking for > books, and are not too worried that they are slightly out of date, look in > your local Library!! > > Hope this helps!! Last time I checked one of the Jane's product catalogs most of the books were selling for ~560 USD... and while it would be nice to buy an older one, my library seems to have some of them way back to the 60s... - -- Peter Vieth | fitek@ix.netcom.com | http://sanitarium.scizzors.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:09:02 EDT From: FlankerMan@aol.com Subject: Re: In need of T:2k info A few years ago I got a Jane's book, I dont remember the title but it had all of the vehicle and aircraft weapons and radars and targeting equipment. I got it at a half price book store for $16 but the book was from 1986. But its an unbeatable price, newer ones are about $120. So Im saying check half-Price book stores, they've got some good stuff at cheap prices. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:20:03 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Cook?= Subject: Re: Jane's books - --- Peter Vieth wrote: > > Last time I checked one of the Jane's product > catalogs most of the books were > selling for ~560 USD... and while it would be nice > to buy an older one, my library > seems to have some of them way back to the 60s... > > -- about a year ago i bought a Jane's book on armoured vehicles, new, for about $30 Canadian. it was the most recent edition of it. I can't remember the exact title, and it's on the other side of the country right now, but it had an overview of every armoured vehicle currently in service in any army of the world. for each vehicle it had a good set of statistics, a quick description, a bunch of b/w and colour photos, and a listing of all known variants. an excellent resource, and as I said, very inexpensive. when i'm back home in a week I'll post the exact title, along with the ISBN. I assume there must be other similarly-priced books about aircraft, naval vessels, etc. michael cook. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:32:27 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Jane's books Michael Cook wrote: > --- Peter Vieth wrote: > > > Last time I checked one of the Jane's product > > catalogs most of the books were > > selling for ~560 USD... and while it would be nice > > to buy an older one, my library > > seems to have some of them way back to the 60s... > > > > -- > > about a year ago i bought a Jane's book on armoured > vehicles, new, for about $30 Canadian. it was the most > recent edition of it. I can't remember the exact > title, and it's on the other side of the country right > now, but it had an overview of every armoured vehicle > currently in service in any army of the world. for > each vehicle it had a good set of statistics, a quick > description, a bunch of b/w and colour photos, and a > listing of all known variants. an excellent resource, > and as I said, very inexpensive. when i'm back home in > a week I'll post the exact title, along with the ISBN. > > I assume there must be other similarly-priced books > about aircraft, naval vessels, etc. > > michael cook. I think I've seen that book-- its not one of the giant 20lbs blue ones that I was thinking about though . - -- Peter Vieth | fitek@ix.netcom.com | http://sanitarium.scizzors.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:07:31 EDT From: FlankerMan@aol.com Subject: What Happened to the Israeli's? Hey does anyone know what happened to the Israeli's in the war? What kind of shape are they in(Military, Economy, Government)? It doesnt say anything in the first book. What about South Africa? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Ward Subject: Re: What Happened to the Israeli's? I'm sure they were dragged into the war somehow. In the 2nd Edition book it says that Israel still has a central government. But there are various groups or factions. The Middle East is were youll most likely find active helicopters or aircraft because of the few active oil refineries there. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:49:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Ward Subject: Re: What Happened to the Israeli's? - --0-1804289383-965260157=:675 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii After some searching I found a site about the IDF that's in english fortunately. http://www.idf.il/english/history/history.stm Check it out it has insignia, rank and some doctrine too. - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. - --0-1804289383-965260157=:675 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

After some searching I found a site about the IDF that's in english fortunately.

http://www.idf.il/english/history/history.stm

Check it out it has insignia, rank and some doctrine too.



Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. - --0-1804289383-965260157=:675-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:36:23 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: What Happened to the Israeli's? In a message dated 08/02/2000 3:15:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, FlankerMan@aol.com writes: << Hey does anyone know what happened to the Israeli's in the war? What kind of shape are they in(Military, Economy, Government)? It doesnt say anything in the first book. What about South Africa? >> 2nd edition doesn't do much better with South Africa. There are two paragraphs devoted to Africa in 2.2. The paragraph covering sub-Saharan Africa basically states that the various countries have reverted back to their various feuding tribal groups. It doesn't say anything directly about South Africa, however. There is a small mention of South Africa in the 1st Edition module "Gateway to the Spanish Main" (pg 6). It briefly states that the Constitution traded some cargo in Capetown for food and spare parts. It also rescued some stranded Americans in the Cape Horn area and lost several crew to malaria. From this I am going to assume that South Africa still exists in T2k, well, at least Capetown. Isreal is covered somewhat in the RDF Sourcebook and also in V2.2. The short paragraph in V2.2 states that a central government exists but the various factions making up the government are beginning to strain (sound familiar?) from the postwar chaos. RDF Sourcebook gives a good timeline, if American military-centered, of the region. I should mention that RDF Sourcebook was written in 1986, well before Desert Storm and that war for oil business. 1988-1990 sees a treaty called Camp David II giving the Palestinians a non-territorial state and dual Israeli/Jordanian citizenship and a peace treaty between Jordan and Israel. In 1991 Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Oman sign peace treaties with Israel. In 1996, following a skirmish with the Syrians, the Israelis launch a surprise attack, eventually taking Damascus. Later on in 1999, the Israelis, satisfied that their borders are secure, send the 35th Parachute Brigade, 7th Armored Brigade and other units to the Persian Gulf. These units come under the command of the US Third Army. orrin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:29:41 -0600 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: Here's an awkward one for you military types out there... > Roger Stenning > Webmaster, > the Impossible Scenarios Group > www.the-isg.co.uk > ICQ: 74721632 > UK Amateur Radio call sign: G1LIW Here's the following information I have... circa 1996: Defence Total Active Manpower: 1,500 Paramilitary: 2,000 Police Available Manpower: 74,000; 36,000 fit for military service Conscription: None, all-volunteer forces Defence Budget: No reliable data available for recent years. Stated to be US$6.2 million in 1981. Navy Personnel: 120 Equipment: 1 Dutch-built P-20 coastal patrol craft (donated by Nigeria), 2 ex-Chinese SHANTOU class, 1 ex-US LANTARA type and a French-built LAMANAGE coastal patrol craft Bases: Malabo, Bata Land Forces Personnel: 1,400 Structure: 2 infantry battalions AIFV’s and APC’s: 8 BRT-152’s Armored Cars: 6 BRDM-2’s Air Force Personnel: 120 Equipment: 1 Yak-40, 3 C-212 AVIOCAR’s and 1 Cessna 337 Additional Links: NAVY- http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/ Hope This Helps Some Tim (T.R.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 18:24:49 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Cook?= Subject: Re: Jane's books - --- Peter Vieth wrote: > > I think I've seen that book-- its not one of the > giant 20lbs blue ones that I > was thinking about though . > yeah, it's this little roughly 7" by 4" by 2.5" thing. would fit in a big cargo pant pocket. I don't think Janes actually publishes it directly, i think that it's published under license by someone else. i could be wrong though. Michael Cook. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 22:56:09 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Jane's books At 06:24 PM 8/4/00 -0700, Michael Cook wrote: > >--- Peter Vieth wrote: > >> I think I've seen that book-- its not one of the >> giant 20lbs blue ones that I >> was thinking about though . >> > >yeah, it's this little roughly 7" by 4" by 2.5" thing. >would fit in a big cargo pant pocket. I don't think >Janes actually publishes it directly, i think that >it's published under license by someone else. i could >be wrong though. > That would be the AFV Recognition Guide (I think that's the name)--I've got one of them. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:03:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) Subject: Rifle Grenades Okay, this may seem like a silly question, but it is one that I have been wondering about for a long time: how do rifle grenades work, anyway? If someone could provide a brief explanation, I'd be very appreciative of it. T.P.M. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 16:33:03 GMT From: "Stephen Dragoo" Subject: Re: Rifle Grenades >Okay, this may seem like a silly question, but it is one that I have been >wondering about for a long time: how do rifle grenades work, anyway? If >someone could provide a brief explanation, I'd be very appreciative of it. I assume you mean the old-style ones that are fired from the rifle's barrel? Well, there're a number of ways to do it. The differences are due to individual countries' needs and weapons used. For some nations, you have to have a specially-shaped barrel on the rifle, which means you have to either make the muzzle shaped to accept the grenade or make a removable attachment for the muzzle. For other nations, the grenade design is modified to make it more universal. In any case, you need 1 of 2 additional things to fire the grenades: either a magazine with blanks (with the grenade blocking up the barrel to provide the needed barrel pressure to work the action and fire the grenade), or a magazine with special rounds meant to fire the grenade out. My recommendation is, forget rifle grenades. They're slower than even the M203 under-barrel or M79 dedicated GL's (as you have to reload your rifle AND affix the grenade to the muzzle), they're less accurate (they're not fired with sights, as you have to brace the rifle against the ground and fire it with a trajectory similar to a mortar), and they detract from the firepower of your rifle. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:47:29 EDT From: FlankerMan@aol.com Subject: Re: Rifle Grenades Speaking of rifle grenades, in V1 what skill is required to use rifle grenade launchers like to M203's on M16's. Its part of the rifle so does it use CRm? But its also a GL so does it use HW? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 20:07:32 GMT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Rifle Grenades >From: "Stephen Dragoo" > >>Okay, this may seem like a silly question, but it is one that I have been >>wondering about for a long time: how do rifle grenades work, anyway? If >>someone could provide a brief explanation, I'd be very appreciative of it. > >I assume you mean the old-style ones that are fired from the rifle's >barrel? > >Well, there're a number of ways to do it. The differences are due to >individual countries' needs and weapons used. For some nations, you have >to >have a specially-shaped barrel on the rifle, which means you have to either >make the muzzle shaped to accept the grenade or make a removable attachment >for the muzzle. For other nations, the grenade design is modified to make >it more universal. IIRC, I think it is most common to find a rifle grenade attachment stuck to the end of a normal rifle's barrel. >In any case, you need 1 of 2 additional things to fire the grenades: >either >a magazine with blanks (with the grenade blocking up the barrel to provide >the needed barrel pressure to work the action and fire the grenade), or a >magazine with special rounds meant to fire the grenade out. > There are also rifle grenades that are "shoot through" -- you can fire them using normal ammunition (there is a special bullet trap at the rear of the grenade). >My recommendation is, forget rifle grenades. They're slower than even the >M203 under-barrel or M79 dedicated GL's (as you have to reload your rifle >AND affix the grenade to the muzzle), they're less accurate (they're not >fired with sights, as you have to brace the rifle against the ground and >fire it with a trajectory similar to a mortar), and they detract from the >firepower of your rifle. A grenade launcher attachment is much cheaper and lighter than an M203. With shoot-through grenades, you do not have to change the magazine. However, they are very slow to reload and do have poor range compared to M203s or M79s (or similar GLs). A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope http://www.geocities.com/copeab ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 13:54:20 AKDT From: "Daniel G" Subject: Re: Rifle Grenades we used either CRM or HW for direct fire(I don't recall which but it tells you on the skill description sheet), and IF for indirect fire. In indirect fire, you have a lower max chance to hit than with mortars, etc. The IF rules are in the players manual. - -Daniel >From: FlankerMan@aol.com >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >Subject: Re: Rifle Grenades >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:47:29 EDT > >Speaking of rifle grenades, in V1 what skill is required to use rifle >grenade >launchers like to M203's on M16's. Its part of the rifle so does it use >CRm? >But its also a GL so does it use HW? >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:34:23 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Rifle Grenades >My recommendation is, forget rifle grenades. They're slower than even the >M203 under-barrel or M79 dedicated GL's (as you have to reload your rifle >AND affix the grenade to the muzzle), they're less accurate (they're not >fired with sights, as you have to brace the rifle against the ground and >fire it with a trajectory similar to a mortar), and they detract from the >firepower of your rifle. Alternatively, you can do what we did. Our PC's were given two crates of rifle grenades as a bonus for doing a job by some grateful civvies (I think that was the case, trying to look back through the bourbon haze here of 10 years!) Rather than use the rotten things, and as we were doing the Pirates of the Vistula at the time, we made up jury rig shore bombardment weapon with a bunch of old SKS rifles in a frame, using a common trigger. This 44 gallon drum with all these guns set in it on a pintle would be swung about, and the gunner would yank the lanyard! It's the MLRS the whole family can afford, I can get you the stats for a 12 barrel version if you like, they take forever to load though! Jim L *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:59:06 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: MP TOE Anyone out there know how US Military Police companies at division level and US Military Police Brigades at corps level and up (?) are equipped and organized circa late 1980's/early 1990's? thanks orrin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 18:30:15 -0500 From: Craig Gulledge Subject: P-3 Orion Question Does anyone have a notion to the performance characteristics of an Orion. My question is, can an Orion take off with just two props? I know that they can cruise with two, but are two enough to get one off the ground? - -- Craig S. Gulledge "If you hear a redneck exclaim, "Hey, y'all, watch this!" Stay out of his way. These are likely the last words he will ever say." - - Rule #8 from "Advice for Moving to Texas"- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #171 *************************************