twilight2000-digest Friday, July 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 169 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: V2 Recoil vs V1 shots RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) RE: COOL rolls Re: Equipment Project Re: Equipment Project Equipment Project Update Re: COOL rolls Re: Forged Documents Re: Equipment Project Re: Forged Documents RE: COOL rolls [none] Re; COOL rolls Re: Re; COOL rolls French, West German & Dutch Armies Re: Equipment Project Update Re: French, West German & Dutch Armies Re: Forged Documents Re: Forged Documents Re: Equipment Project RE: COOL rolls Re: Re; COOL rolls Twilight Coal RE: Twilight Coal Re: Re; COOL rolls RE: Forged Documents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 23:01:10 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: V2 Recoil vs V1 shots > >Thanks. Any help is better than no help. Also, I have 1 v2 book (a US >Vehicles Book) and it lists a value on recoil for weapons. This isn't in >v1. How does it work? > In V1 they sort of simplified a few things, ie dividing the total number of rounds in a magazine/belt etc by 3. They also simplified the ROF and recoils for the weapons by averaging things out. In V2 weapons are listed with a more individualized ROF. Semi-auto weapons usually have a ROF of SA which means a character can take up to five shots per turn. Similarly Pump Action is PA, bolt action BA, lever action LA, which I think are respectively 3, 3, and 2 shots per turn. (someone correct me if I'm wrong since I can't find my v2 rule book right now). Automatic weapons are listed with a number for ROF usually 3, 5, or 10. Which is the number of shots per burst. Theoretically a character could fire up to five bursts per turn with an automatic weapon. So to even things up a bit and introducea bit of controlling reality, each weapon is rated for recoil. Under SS that is amount of recoil per shot, same deal for the Burst. You can try and fire as much as you like, but if the total recoil for all shots/burst fired that round exceeds the character's strength stat (possibly modified by small arms skill, or am thinking of v2.2/TNE?) the hit chance is reduced by 1 for each point exceeding the character's strength. Accuracy reductions on bursts are bit more complicated depending on whether you use v2 or v2.2 rules. In V2 you used to throw a d6 for each round in a burst, but the number of dice thrown could be reduced by longer range shots and high recoil. In V2.2 I think each round in a burst was rolled against 1/8 of the character's averaged skill and strength, with similar reductions in the total number of dice thrown for range and recoil. Usually ended up in a helluva lot dice rolling for people using SAW's on rock and roll. Anyhow that's the quick and dirty version of it, some machine guns and sniper rifles have multiple recoil values listed if you use a bipod/tripod. I might be off on some of the details since I don't have my rulebook in front of me, but that's the basic gist of things. Feel free to correct any of my mistakes if anyone has their rulebook handy or a better memory . Regards, JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:46:21 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) At 10:50 AM 7/19/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >> From: Jim & Peta Lawrie >> >> Good old Mr Clemens: "There are three sorts of lies. Lies, damned lies >> and statistics." (I hope that's right anyway) > >I'd say that statistics are the worst of them all. > >You can twist the numbers to come to any preconceived conclusion you want. >And then stand there and claim you did it 'scientifically' and that the >numbers 'prove' your conclusions ... > Not exactly. The job of people who're actually trying to get at the truth is to avoid interpreting statistics wrong--there ARE good ways to interpret them (even if sometimes even the experts get into arguments over what a particular fact means). Mind you, people who are trying to deceive can do a lot of nasty things with them, but they're still useful and necessary for people who really want to get the right answers. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:50:08 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: COOL rolls At 12:51 PM 7/19/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >> From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) >> >> Over the past few weeks people on here have been talking about COOL rolls >> for various situations. I cannot find any reference to them in my v2.2 >> rulebook, so I was wondering if any of you could provide more information >> about them (what they are, how they work, etc.). Thanks! > >COOL = Coolness Under Fire > >It's a stat in the v1 rules. I don't know about the others since I don't >have the others. > >A person with a 10 is as pathetic as can be. If you yell at him, he'll fall >over quivering in fear (ok, I exagerate a bit). > >A person with a 0 is completely unflapable. He will never panic. Could >charge a machine gun nest armed only with a plastic spoon (once anyway). > >It also determines how often you have to hesitate, even if you never fail >your roll, but I forget the specifics. Zero was really nice to have, >because you never had to take a hesitation turn. But very few guys had a >zero. > >Plus I've never seen any rules for improving it, but there should be some. > I've really had to wonder about Coolness under Fire after reading Keegan's _The_Face_of_Battle_. His thesis is that men can only take so much combat, and that after a certain point they're going to break. Certainly, better-trained troops would have better Coolness, and perhaps soldiers who've survived a couple of firefights would have better Coolness than rookies; however, at some point, Coolness should start getting _worse_ rather than better. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:58:31 +0200 From: fmmeier@freshnet.de (Meier, Frank) Subject: Re: Equipment Project >I have a number of suggestions that would help make the list/manual computer >readable. That way if someone wanted to write a program to automatically >create equipment lists for encounters (for example), it could use the list >already generated as it's database. > >If you think that's a good idea, I'd be happy to donate a little time to >help design the computer parsable format. > >Walter That's a nice idea. But I think we should wait until we have an equipment list finished to work on. Bye, Frank *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:02:20 +0200 From: fmmeier@freshnet.de (Meier, Frank) Subject: Re: Equipment Project >So you are looking for what info in the real world or twight 2000 info?If you >are looking for the real deal I can help out with that. >Weapons I can help you out. Hi, I am looking for the real world info. I would like to have real world data like: cyclic RoF, weight, length, etc... I you are interested in covering the weapons chapter in detail, let me know. Bye, Frank *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:05:11 +0200 From: fmmeier@freshnet.de (Meier, Frank) Subject: Equipment Project Update Hi folks, thanks for the interest in the project. I would like to assign each area to a specific person who wants to cover that. The Web Gear area is already covered. Clothing Ammunition Weapons Personal Armor Communication Gear Vision Gear Demolitions Web Gear COVERED Stills & Generators Tools Climbing Gear Weapon Accessories Medical Gear NBC Gear Camping Gear Body Armor Other If there is anybody who would like to cover one of the available areas please mail me. I would like to collect all data in some documents I will post on my webpage. FYI, for the time era the items are in service use the following chart: - - WWI - - WWII - - Korea - - Vietnam - - 80s - - 90s Bye, Frank *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:51:28 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: COOL rolls >I've really had to wonder about Coolness under Fire after reading Keegan's >_The_Face_of_Battle_. His thesis is that men can only take so much combat, >and that after a certain point they're going to break. Certainly, >better-trained troops would have better Coolness, and perhaps soldiers >who've survived a couple of firefights would have better Coolness than >rookies; however, at some point, Coolness should start getting _worse_ >rather than better. > >Scott Orr That's a good point, it's been shown in anxiety studies that constant stress can make the pineal-adrenal system somehow more sensitive and disfunctional. This leads to anxiety, a situation where the sufferers Fight/Flight reflex can be triggered by false signals and panic attacks may result. A classic example of this was WW1 Battle Fatigue, where sufferer's were refered to as "Nervey". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:10:00 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Forged Documents In a message dated 07/20/2000 12:09:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fitek@ix.netcom.com writes: << What are military IDs like? (are they laminated, etc) >> I have a friend that was in the Military.And his ID was laminated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:19:12 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Equipment Project In a message dated 07/20/2000 3:02:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fmmeier@freshnet.de writes: << I am looking for the real world info. I would like to have real world data like: cyclic RoF, weight, length, etc... I you are interested in covering the weapons chapter in detail, let me know. Bye, Frank >> Hi Frank I can try to cover what you are looking for I have a book on Small weapons of the world.It has 3500 entries.So I have been tring to see what you could use and need.I have send out a few examples to you on this list not sure if you have seen them or not.Look them over and tell me what you would like to see on it if I have that info or what you like so I can just keep doing what I'm doing.Thanks.Mike. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 07:48:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Ward Subject: Re: Forged Documents - --0-846930886-964104488=:21836 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii YEah I guess they are. Ive only seen one. Any others documents? - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-846930886-964104488=:21836 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


YEah I guess they are.  Ive only seen one.  Any others documents?


Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-846930886-964104488=:21836-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:49:19 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: COOL rolls > From: Scott David Orr > > I've really had to wonder about Coolness under Fire after reading Keegan's > _The_Face_of_Battle_. His thesis is that men can only take so > much combat, > and that after a certain point they're going to break. Certainly, > better-trained troops would have better Coolness, and perhaps soldiers > who've survived a couple of firefights would have better Coolness than > rookies; however, at some point, Coolness should start getting _worse_ > rather than better. It's funny you mention that book. I ordered it at the same time I ordered the Andy McNab book. It's next on my reading list after I finish chapter 2 in the Art of Electronics. This reminds me of a show I saw on A&E (or Discovery) called Suicide Missions. It had a episode on snipers. One of our top snipers in Vietnam came back and became a police officer. Everything was great until one day when he was supposed to shoot a criminal who was shooting at them, when he just couldn't do it anymore. He just couldn't bear to pull the trigger and kill another person again. Even though the person was in front of him and shooting at him. Another officer shot the criminal, and he had to retire. IIRC, he said it wasn't panic, it was just that he couldn't bear to shoot anyone again. Apparently he had a LOT of kills in Vietnam. You could probably model this in the game by changing the coolness from a 0 to 10 scale to a 0 to 100 scale, by just adding a zero. Then if you roll your coolness exactly, something in you snaps and it either gets better or worse significantly. Maybe a 50% chance to make it better or worse, and move the value by a d6 x 10 points? Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:14:28 CEST From: "Pedro Arnal Puente" Subject: [none] Hello All Walter Rebsch wrote: > > From: Rodney Felts > > > > Well I am not much of a programmer so I plan to use HTML. > > > > Sounds like joining forces with Frank might be the ticket ... > > Remember, I'd be happy to help with the format, if you want it to be easily > parsable by a computer program. I have been doing some work in a XML-based language for real life to RPGs equipment storage. My work has been intended for use in internal publishing process at 'Sir Roger Mercenario" (http://www.kobo.es/srm) a spanish hobby e-zine. I will be happy to work with anybody in that. An XML-based language is easily parseable for program use, can be very information rich and could be convertedto XHTML, RTF, PDF, PS and other formats with just and style sheet. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:16:03 CEST From: "Pedro Arnal Puente" Subject: Re; COOL rolls Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > >I've really had to wonder about Coolness under Fire after reading Keegan's > >_The_Face_of_Battle_. His thesis is that men can only take so much combat, > >and that after a certain point they're going to break. Certainly, > >better-trained troops would have better Coolness, and perhaps soldiers > >who've survived a couple of firefights would have better Coolness than > >rookies; however, at some point, Coolness should start getting _worse_ > >rather than better. > > > >Scott Orr > > That's a good point, it's been shown in anxiety studies that constant > stress can make the pineal-adrenal system somehow more sensitive and > disfunctional. This leads to anxiety, a situation where the sufferers > Fight/Flight reflex can be triggered by false signals and panic attacks may > result. A classic example of this was WW1 Battle Fatigue, where sufferer's > were refered to as "Nervey". A fast and dirty approach to that is a home rule my group has used last seven years. The idea is that after each combat and other circunstances as needed, you roll COOL (we use 1st edition for Coolness under fire and hesitation in combat turns). If you roll equal or more than your COOL stat, a new stat called hardness rises 1d6. If you roll less another new stat, called Combat Neurosis (Battle fatigue is equally well suited) rises 1d6. Some events or close people deaths (gory death of your young brother and other five close friends more, all seated with you inside a BMP hit more than thirty times by a 20mm AA VULCAN, for example) could represent Xd6 directly to the neurosis count. Neurosis could be temporally reduced by alcohol, some drugs, some rest... permanently by therapy, long rest far from the fighting... Hardness make your COOL reduces (get better) using a formula I just don't remember now. After your Neurosis has reached 75 (an arbitrary limit, it seems to work but perhaps 50 or 60 gives more 'flavour') is the Referee who manages it. When it reachs 100 you collapse, possible results by a table that I also don't remember. Adjusting the COOL exp. formula and with a well-tought table based on ample bibliography existent could get really good results. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:11:14 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Re; COOL rolls >> That's a good point, it's been shown in anxiety studies that constant >> stress can make the pineal-adrenal system somehow more sensitive and >> disfunctional. This leads to anxiety, a situation where the sufferers >> Fight/Flight reflex can be triggered by false signals and panic attacks may >> result. A classic example of this was WW1 Battle Fatigue, where sufferer's >> were refered to as "Nervey". >Neurosis could be temporally reduced by alcohol, some drugs, some >rest... permanently by therapy, long rest far from the fighting... Alcohol is actually a really good anti-anxiety drug, unfortunately it's a depressant as well and most Anxiety sufferers get that too. Reflect this by saying that during the 'Hangover Stage' (an Anxiety sufferer will drink until he drops) he loses 1D10 INT temporarily, if it hits 0 they curl into a ball and may become suicidal. The only good drugs for the Anxiety stage are probably the Valiums, perhaps a some of the sedatives in the rules could be listed as these, or you could have them as a seperate drug with the same cost, weight and availability. Note, the Anti-Anxiety (Valium, Prozac etc) and the Anti-Depressants (Serapax etc) are all in high demand on the black market as recreational drugs too. Most are addictive. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 09:07:42 +1000 From: "Peter" Subject: French, West German & Dutch Armies This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFF2F3.20EAD9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few questions on the modules 'Going Home' and 'NATO Vehicle Guide' = (1st or 2nd edition). Does the 'Going Home' module have writeups on the German and French = Armies? Are the 'NATO Vehicle Guide's similar to the US and Soviet ones? That is = do they have the one paragraph writeup on each division, and are tables = of organisation & equipment provided? Peter Grining - ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFF2F3.20EAD9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A few questions on the modules 'Going = Home' and=20 'NATO Vehicle Guide' (1st or 2nd edition). Does the 'Going Home' module have = writeups on the=20 German and French Armies? Are the 'NATO Vehicle Guide's similar = to the US and=20 Soviet ones? That is do they have the one paragraph writeup on each = division,=20 and are tables of organisation & equipment provided? Peter = Grining - ------=_NextPart_000_0071_01BFF2F3.20EAD9A0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:36:05 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Equipment Project Update In a message dated 07/20/2000 3:06:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fmmeier@freshnet.de writes: << - WWI - WWII - Korea - Vietnam - 80s - 90s >> As far as I know the following are in service from Vietnam to now. Machine pistols Model:61 Wz63 Stechin Cal: 7.65mmx17 9x18 9x18 Overall 20in 24in 22in wo/stock 10.6 13.1 8.8 Weight: 3.42lbs. 3.97lbs. 2.25lbs. Mag: 10-20 15-25 20 SMG Mini Uzi SM-90 Uzi MAC-10 S&W76 Cal: 9x19mm 9x19mm 9x19mm 9x19mm 9x19mm Weight lbs: 5.84 4 8.9 6.25 7.5 Lenght w/o 14.17in 12in 17.9in 11.6in 20.3 Mag: 20,25,32 33 25 34 33 Caseless Benelli M2 Cal: 9mm AUPO Weight w/ mag: 7.5lbs. Weight of Mag: .55 Lenght w/stock 26 wo/stock 17.73 Mag: 40 SIG-Sauer P220 series P220(M75) P225(P6) P226(XM9) Cal: 9x19mm 9x19mm 9x19mm Overall 7.79in 7.09in 7.72in weight empty: 23.53oz 23.25oz 25.52oz Mag 9 8 15 M1969 Cal: 9mm Weight: 36oz w/mag&empty Mag: 8 M15 M1911A1 Cal: .45 .45 Weight: 2.25 lbs 2.43 lbs Mag: 7 7 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:17:46 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: French, West German & Dutch Armies In a message dated 07/20/2000 7:18:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, grining@southcom.com.au writes: << A few questions on the modules 'Going Home' and 'NATO Vehicle Guide' (1st or 2nd edition). Does the 'Going Home' module have writeups on the German and French Armies? Are the 'NATO Vehicle Guide's similar to the US and Soviet ones? That is do they have the one paragraph writeup on each division, and are tables of organisation & equipment provided? Peter Grining >> I have both the NATO guide they have somestuff about units but not a lot.The going home also has some stuff more with what's going on in Germany then near French border *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:08:12 -0700 (PDT) From: graebarde Subject: Re: Forged Documents > What are military IDs like? (are they laminated, etc) > The current ID issued to US forces would be difficult to forge without actual blanks since they have a hologram imbedded. One check for authentic IDs is to move the ID around to see if the hologram shows up.. of course after fours years in the combat zone, most IDs would probably be pretty ragged to say the least. Some areas, ie Krakow, would probably have their own form of IDs for their "citizens".. that would be a candidate for forgery if you wanted into the city without going throught he proper channels. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail ­ Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 21:29:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Ward Subject: Re: Forged Documents - --0-1350490027-964153763=:20131 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What would the proper channels be? What procedures would youhave t go through to get a document? - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-1350490027-964153763=:20131 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

What would the proper channels be?  What procedures would youhave t go through to get a document?


Do You Yahoo!?
Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-1350490027-964153763=:20131-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:55:28 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Equipment Project At 08:58 AM 7/20/00 +0200, Meier, Frank wrote: >>I have a number of suggestions that would help make the list/manual >That's a nice idea. But I think we should wait until we have an >equipment list finished to work on. > I think Walter's point was that if you want to put it on the computer eventually, you ought to go ahead and put it in a format that the computer can handle in the first place--it's no harder, and it'll save you a lot of work later. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:00:03 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: COOL rolls At 09:49 AM 7/20/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >This reminds me of a show I saw on A&E (or Discovery) called Suicide >Missions. It had a episode on snipers. One of our top snipers in Vietnam >came back and became a police officer. Everything was great until one day >when he was supposed to shoot a criminal who was shooting at them, when he >just couldn't do it anymore. He just couldn't bear to pull the trigger and >kill another person again. Even though the person was in front of him and >shooting at him. Another officer shot the criminal, and he had to retire. >IIRC, he said it wasn't panic, it was just that he couldn't bear to shoot >anyone again. Apparently he had a LOT of kills in Vietnam. > >You could probably model this in the game by changing the coolness from a 0 >to 10 scale to a 0 to 100 scale, by just adding a zero. Then if you roll >your coolness exactly, something in you snaps and it either gets better or >worse significantly. Maybe a 50% chance to make it better or worse, and >move the value by a d6 x 10 points? > That might work--but I think that early on the tendency should be to get a lower coolness, and later on the tendency should be to get a higher one. If it's totally random, the chances of ever "burning out" are minimal. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:02:03 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Re; COOL rolls At 06:16 PM 7/20/00 CEST, Pedro Arnal Puente wrote: >A fast and dirty approach to that is a home rule my group has used last >seven years. > >The idea is that after each combat and other circunstances as needed, >you roll COOL (we use 1st edition for Coolness under fire and hesitation >in combat turns). If you roll equal or more than your COOL stat, a new >stat called hardness rises 1d6. If you roll less another new stat, >called Combat Neurosis (Battle fatigue is equally well suited) rises >1d6. Some events or close people deaths (gory death of your young >brother and other five close friends more, all seated with you inside a >BMP hit more than thirty times by a 20mm AA VULCAN, for example) could >represent Xd6 directly to the neurosis count. > >Neurosis could be temporally reduced by alcohol, some drugs, some >rest... permanently by therapy, long rest far from the fighting... > >Hardness make your COOL reduces (get better) using a formula I just >don't remember now. > >After your Neurosis has reached 75 (an arbitrary limit, it seems to work >but perhaps 50 or 60 gives more 'flavour') is the Referee who manages >it. When it reachs 100 you collapse, possible results by a table that I >also don't remember. > >Adjusting the COOL exp. formula and with a well-tought table based on >ample bibliography existent could get really good results. > This sounds like an interesting system (if perhaps complex). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 18:34:56 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Twilight Coal I was lucky enough to talk to a German coal miner today, and he has provided me with some very interesting information on this resource for T2K. Evidently, there is an enormous amount of coal left in Europe, it's just not economically viable to get it out. This doesn't mean that it's impossible or even very hard to mine, just in right now they won't get enough of a profit margin on it. Unfortunately, to be uneconomical it is usually very, very deep. Like 600m below the ground. For closed face mines (tunnels etc), it means that the amount of infrastructure needed to operate the mine is too costly to dig any deeper at the moment. Note that the infrastructure is already there, just not being used. In a 'War still going" campaign they'll dig it out anyway. For open face mines (huge, open holes in the ground) there is too much 'over burden' (stuff on top) to dig out to go any deeper. Here's a little ASCII diagram \ / \___/ To dig deeper you have to get a lot more over burden out \ / \ / \__/ But of course, if your a nutso T2K civilisation you may try closed face mining at the bottom of this big hole! Coal comes in a variety of types, but the broadest types I know of is 'Cooking' and 'Steaming'. Cooking coal is what is used to smelt steel, it's rare and needs oxygen injection for burning but is the highest quality, steaming coal is used to run generators at power plants etc. It'll burn by itself in a bin, so mine fires are more of a hazard. Also, some veins of coal weren't tapped because it was just too much work for a miner to worm his way down a kilometre of 2' high seam-tunnel to the coal face. These may be considered viable now! Now here, we have the making's of some terrifying scenarios. 600m down is not the place for grenades and firearms. Any shooting is going to bring the roof down or at least leave you deaf for days (Broken Arrow was a *silly* movie) if there's coal dust or gas about, any shooting is going to have an effect similar to a Fuel-Air explosive let off inside a closed room. In fact, the earliest FA bombs used coal dust. How about some Scenario ideas for mines? I know GDW did at least one. The classic, 'get caught and sent to work in the mines, lead a slaves rebellion' Lots of good hand to hand stuff there. For reconstruction games, 'Find a disused small mine and try to work it. Events include the ever popular marauder/enemy attack with snipers in the mine tower and infiltrators in the tunnels. A cave in or flood in the mine, race against time to get out or extricate some NPCs caught below. Old workings honeycomb the subsurface in the mining fields, breaking into a flooded one would be terrifying. Any more? Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:03:42 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Twilight Coal > From: Jim & Peta Lawrie > > Now here, we have the making's of some terrifying scenarios. 600m down > is not the place for grenades and firearms. Any shooting is going to bring > the roof down or at least leave you deaf for days (Broken Arrow was a > *silly* movie) if there's coal dust or gas about, any shooting is going to > have an effect similar to a Fuel-Air explosive let off inside a > closed room. In fact, the earliest FA bombs used coal dust. I wouldn't say 'any shooting'. They use robotic jackhammers to carve out rock down there, and the concussion put into the rock by one of those things is probably MUCH greater than the pressure wave from a gun being fired. Now for grenades ... that's a different story ... The deaf part is probably very true. The loudest weapon I ever fired was a 66mm LAW rocket. Even with ear plugs and standing in an open field it left my right ear ringing for 5 minutes. Underground without ear plugs would probably rupture your ear drum ... > Any more? How about a (any country name here) commander decided to stash some of his division's munitions and fuel reserves in an abandoned mine a while back. Their combat engineers set up some traps and they leave. The PC's find some old intel info hinting at what's there ... but someone else may have heard of it also ... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:14:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) Subject: Re: Re; COOL rolls > Anti-Depressants (Serapax etc) are all in high demand on the black market as > recreational drugs too. Most are addictive. Adictive? Are you certain? I've been on two different anti-depressants for quite some time now, and I'm nowhere close to being addicted. In fact, I usually have to be reminded to take them. I also have not heard about the black market thing. To think I've been sitting on a gold mine all this time... :) T.P.M. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:45:57 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Forged Documents > From: graebarde > > > What are military IDs like? (are they laminated, etc) > > > > The current ID issued to US forces would be difficult to > forge without actual blanks since they have a hologram > imbedded. One check for authentic IDs is to move the ID > around to see if the hologram shows up.. of course after > fours years in the combat zone, most IDs would probably be > pretty ragged to say the least. IIRC, each division G1 would have an office set up to create new ID's. This was a constant necessity because of people loosing/damaging/destroying them. Everytime before we would go on DRB (Division Ready Brigade) status and before every jump or field exercise, we would have an inspection of our gear that included our ID's. If they were badly frayed or delaminating, you would have to get another one. During a full division deployment, the ability to create new ID's in the field would probably be retained near the division rear area. That includes dog tags. > Some areas, ie Krakow, would probably have their own form > of IDs for their "citizens".. that would be a candidate for > forgery if you wanted into the city without going throught > he proper channels. These local ID's probably wouldn't have a lot of high tech security features either ... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #169 *************************************