twilight2000-digest Thursday, July 20 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 168 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) RE: US Recoilless Rifles Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) Equipment Project RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) COOL rolls RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) RE: COOL rolls RE: Equipment Project RE: COOL rolls RE: COOL rolls Re: COOL rolls RE: Equipment Project Re: COOL rolls Re: Equipment Project RE: Equipment Project Re: Equipment Project Re: Equipment Project RE: Equipment Project RE: Equipment Project Re: Equipment Project Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) Forged Documents RE: Forged Documents RE: Forged Documents RE: Forged Documents Re: Forged Documents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:11:22 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) >Plus the .50 cal shoots an 'explosive bullet'? I guess that's different >than a standard .50 BMG, so without the proper spotting bullets you'd be >hosed right? >Walter Dead right there, it's a ballistically matched round but it's likely that if you're 'buying' the ammo rather than making it yourself there will be ample ammo for it. Spotting rifles aren't covered in any set of rules I've seen so far, but here's a thought. *Theoretically*, if you hit with the spotting round you can't miss with the warhead. If you want to reflect this I'd allow normal to hit rolls with the spotting weapon first, once a hit is resolved you can fire the RCL at a lower difficulty than the range would normally dictate. Maybe one diff lower for a moving target and two for a stationary. On .50 cal ammo, it's interesting that almost half of all 12.7mm ammo made is API. During WW2 the US churned out ten billion rounds, I don't think we need to reload those! Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:24:40 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) > From: Brandon Cope > > Not sure how I'd handle it in game terms; maybe treat it as a +1 > Rangefinder? Personally, I like more complicated rules. :) How about something like this: How about every time you shoot the ranging rifle and miss, you get to try again next round but with a bonus. The bonus might be to change their chance-to-hit by half the distance from their last chance-to-hit to 100%, or by 20%, whichever is less (capped at a 95% chance total). Thus a miss when having a 4% chance to hit would become 24% (because of the 20% cap per shot). And a miss when having an 80% chance to hit would become 90% (because half the distance from 80 to 100 is 10). Once he scores a hit with the ranging rifle, he can switch to the main gun and have an automatic 95% chance to hit. If he switches to the main gun before achieving a hit, the main gun's chance to hit would be the same as if he shot the ranging gun again. This way even an idiot could figure out where to point it ... eventually. Something similar ought to be used when walking-in fire with an automatic weapon fired continously from a bipod or tripod using tracers. Anyone, no matter how sorry, can get the bullets to land on target eventually. It's like pointing a water hose. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:39:23 +1200 From: "Anson Betts" Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles > From: Brandon Cope > > Not all my data is complete; I couldn't find the shell weight for > the M40 or M67. M67 90mm Recoilless rifle shell weight = 3.1 kg M40A1 106mm Recoilless rifle shell weight = 7.7 kg From The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Artillery, Ian V. Hogg. Anson, The future of social protest lies in doing things which are just too interesting not to talk about. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:44:12 +0200 (MET DST) From: Bjorn Nilsson Subject: Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > > On .50 cal ammo, it's interesting that almost half of all 12.7mm ammo > made is API. During WW2 the US churned out ten billion rounds, I don't think > we need to reload those! > Well given typical post WWII rounds-to-casualties ratios of 1000-10000 rds/casualty that's about 1-10 million casualties. Pretty neat. :-) OTOH there is probably A LOT of .50cal machineguns in the US and NATO armories. Besides machinegunners (at least those in vehicles, i.e. don't have to hump it themselves) are usually very good at burning ammo. Does anyone have any nice statistics of how much ammo was used in post WWII wars? (Vietnam, korea, etc) /Bjorn PS: 10 billion rounds is about 600 DAYs of continous fire from a M2HB. :-) (Assuming it don't brake down or melt of course) .-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:07:39 +0200 From: fmmeier@freshnet.de (Meier, Frank) Subject: Equipment Project Attention ! I would like to do a complete Equipment Manual for use with T2K and/or other military RPGs. As this is a lot of work and my knowledge in some areas is very limited I suggest a joined effort of several people of the T2KML. I would like to divide the Manual in the following areas and everyone covers one of these areas: - - Clothing (e.g. M-65 Field Jacket) - - Ammunition - - Weapons (only military types in service) - - Personal Armor (Helmets & Vests) - - Communication Gear (Personal & Vehicle) - - Vision Gear (Binoculars, Night Vision Scope, etc..) - - Demolitions (Demo Charges, Timers, etc..) - - Web Gear (including backpacks, magazine pouches, etc..) - - Stills & Generators - - Tools - - Climbing Gear - - Weapon Accessories - - Medical Gear - - NBC Gear - - Camping Gear - - Body Armor - - Other Every piece of equipment should have the following statistics: - - Weight - - Availability - - Cost - - Service Date (e.g. 1970-1984; 1980s) - - Nationality (e.g. US, UK, Soviet, etc..) Please mail me if you are interested in this project and which area you would like to cover. Dismissed, Frank *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:08:56 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) > Well given typical post WWII rounds-to-casualties ratios of 1000-10000 > rds/casualty that's about 1-10 million casualties. Pretty neat. :-) Oh no!!! Not the rounds-to-casualties ratio again ... :) I recommend to everyone to read the book "A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper" before you believe any more statistics from the media ... that book doesn't deal with this particular stat, but rather stats in general in the media. It's especially helpful to those of you who have never taken a college course in probability and statistics. > PS: 10 billion rounds is about 600 DAYs of continous fire from a M2HB. :-) > (Assuming it don't brake down or melt of course) My calculator comes out to 42.28 years (at 450/minute) ... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 01:27:52 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) >> Well given typical post WWII rounds-to-casualties ratios of 1000-10000 >> rds/casualty that's about 1-10 million casualties. Pretty neat. :-) > >Oh no!!! Not the rounds-to-casualties ratio again ... :) > >I recommend to everyone to read the book "A Mathematician Reads the >Newspaper" before you believe any more statistics from the media ... that >book doesn't deal with this particular stat, but rather stats in general in >the media. It's especially helpful to those of you who have never taken a >college course in probability and statistics. >Walter Yep, I often wonder if those statistics take into account miniguns etc fired in support, or the funny US fetish for 'recon by fire' which we hear so much about. Also, is it actual combat loadings? Are training expenditures being sneakily tucked in there too? Good old Mr Clemens: "There are three sorts of lies. Lies, damned lies and statistics." (I hope that's right anyway) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:50:54 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) > From: Jim & Peta Lawrie > > Good old Mr Clemens: "There are three sorts of lies. Lies, damned lies > and statistics." (I hope that's right anyway) I'd say that statistics are the worst of them all. You can twist the numbers to come to any preconceived conclusion you want. And then stand there and claim you did it 'scientifically' and that the numbers 'prove' your conclusions ... Whereas the 'lies' and 'damned lies' don't have the veil of scientific authenticity to hide under. Did you know that you can statistically prove that tatoos cause crime? Just look at all the people in prison. Count the incidence rate of tatoos there and compare it to the general population. Then write a paper, include some cool looking charts and bar graphs, publish the paper, and get on a talk show ... easy. Everyone should be a scientist ... Sorry, I guess I'm waaaaay off topic now. I'll get off the pulpit ... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:55:57 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) At 07:24 PM 7/18/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >How about every time you shoot the ranging rifle and miss, you get to try >again next round but with a bonus. The bonus might be to change their >chance-to-hit by half the distance from their last chance-to-hit to 100%, or >by 20%, whichever is less (capped at a 95% chance total). Thus a miss when >having a 4% chance to hit would become 24% (because of the 20% cap per >shot). And a miss when having an 80% chance to hit would become 90% >(because half the distance from 80 to 100 is 10). > Don't you think the degree of improvement would depend on the skill of the gunner? Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:23:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) Subject: COOL rolls Over the past few weeks people on here have been talking about COOL rolls for various situations. I cannot find any reference to them in my v2.2 rulebook, so I was wondering if any of you could provide more information about them (what they are, how they work, etc.). Thanks! T.P.M. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:43:00 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) > From: Scott David Orr > > At 07:24 PM 7/18/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: > > >How about every time you shoot the ranging rifle and miss, you get to try > >again next round but with a bonus. The bonus might be to change their > >chance-to-hit by half the distance from their last chance-to-hit > to 100%, or > >by 20%, whichever is less (capped at a 95% chance total). Thus > a miss when > >having a 4% chance to hit would become 24% (because of the 20% cap per > >shot). And a miss when having an 80% chance to hit would become 90% > >(because half the distance from 80 to 100 is 10). > > > Don't you think the degree of improvement would depend on the skill of the > gunner? > That's a good idea. Using v1 skill levels, how about change the per-shot improvement cap from 20% to being equal to half their skill level (or twice their intelligence, whichever is greater). I'm not sure how v2 skills go, but don't they work kinda like in Traveller? Now smart and/or skilled people would figure it out faster than people with room temperature IQ's that can't tie their own shoes. Walter PS: There was some guy that asked a question about changing weapon stats from v2 to v1 about a week ago. No one ever answered him (that I saw anyway). Does no one really have both versions? I only have v1, so I couldn't help him. If there was a private answer to this question, please CC it to the list. I'd like the answer too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:51:22 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: COOL rolls > From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) > > Over the past few weeks people on here have been talking about COOL rolls > for various situations. I cannot find any reference to them in my v2.2 > rulebook, so I was wondering if any of you could provide more information > about them (what they are, how they work, etc.). Thanks! COOL = Coolness Under Fire It's a stat in the v1 rules. I don't know about the others since I don't have the others. A person with a 10 is as pathetic as can be. If you yell at him, he'll fall over quivering in fear (ok, I exagerate a bit). A person with a 0 is completely unflapable. He will never panic. Could charge a machine gun nest armed only with a plastic spoon (once anyway). It also determines how often you have to hesitate, even if you never fail your roll, but I forget the specifics. Zero was really nice to have, because you never had to take a hesitation turn. But very few guys had a zero. Plus I've never seen any rules for improving it, but there should be some. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:15:37 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Equipment Project > From: Meier, Frank > > I would like to do a complete Equipment Manual for use with T2K and/or > other military RPGs. As this is a lot of work and my knowledge in some > areas is very limited I suggest a joined effort of several people of the > T2KML. I would like to divide the Manual in the following areas and > everyone covers one of these areas: Holy cow man ... that sounds like real work. Everybody run .... ! Just kidding. :) It does sound like a big project though. I have a number of suggestions that would help make the list/manual computer readable. That way if someone wanted to write a program to automatically create equipment lists for encounters (for example), it could use the list already generated as it's database. If you think that's a good idea, I'd be happy to donate a little time to help design the computer parsable format. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:34:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) Subject: RE: COOL rolls > COOL = Coolness Under Fire > > It's a stat in the v1 rules. I don't know about the others since I don't > have the others. > How was the number determined? Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:41:50 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: RE: COOL rolls >From: "Walter Rebsch" > > > From: Timothy P Moerke (Timothy Moerke) > > > > Over the past few weeks people on here have been talking about COOL >rolls > > for various situations. I cannot find any reference to them in my v2.2 > > rulebook, so I was wondering if any of you could provide more >information > > about them (what they are, how they work, etc.). Thanks! > >COOL = Coolness Under Fire > >It's a stat in the v1 rules. I don't know about the others since I don't >have the others. > >A person with a 10 is as pathetic as can be. If you yell at him, he'll >fall >over quivering in fear (ok, I exagerate a bit). > >A person with a 0 is completely unflapable. He will never panic. Could >charge a machine gun nest armed only with a plastic spoon (once anyway). > >It also determines how often you have to hesitate, even if you never fail >your roll, but I forget the specifics. Zero was really nice to have, >because you never had to take a hesitation turn. But very few guys had a >zero. There is something similar (the name escapes me at the moment) in v2.x, but it runs from 1 (worst) to 6 (best). Brandon ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:45:38 +0300 From: "Merondil Twiceborn" Subject: Re: COOL rolls OK.. Now when I have the time I'll explain you how the thing goes in V.2.2 (BTW Timothy.. It is called Panic in v. 2.2) In V. 2.2 as I said it is called panic and it's listed as Actions not controlled by will (or something like that), it comes naturally. Every time a wound leads to falling, or when he (player character reffered to as he from now on) is attacked from an unknown source (ambush etc.) he may panic. This is not any blind horror, that makes him run away screaming wildly, but rather panic that makes him "freeze" for a while. The panic is resolved by rolling a D6. If the result is bigger than his Initiative (I think this is a v. 2 rule), he panics and cannot do anything else in the next X rounds (X = how many number were over the initiative). If the result is panic for more than one round, he may go prone and take cover and stay prone until he can do something again (which means the panic is over). If the panic starts in a turn in which he has already used his action he must spend the next round where he stands, and after that go prone and take cover. There was still some text but with my translating skills...no way... And the translation above really sucks, but that'll have to do. (After all, I AM only 14...And starting my 5th year of studying english in 8th grade) But ask me if you didn't understand the thing I tried to explain you. - -Eero Haapamäki *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:45:12 -0700 From: "Rodney Felts" Subject: RE: Equipment Project I would love to help with the Equipment Manual FROM HELL. I have been working on a web based one in my spare time. Thinks like tents, clothing, fishing and hunting supplies, etc. Need help let me know. rfelts@ev1.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:51:30 +0300 From: "Merondil Twiceborn" Subject: Re: COOL rolls > Plus I've never seen any rules for improving it, but there should be some. > > Walter > And yes you can improve your initiative in v 2 and 2.2... Don't want to start explaining that...At least not now... - -Eero *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:57:22 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Equipment Project So you are looking for what info in the real world or twight 2000 info?If you are looking for the real deal I can help out with that. Weapons I can help you out. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:07:49 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Equipment Project > From: Rodney Felts > > I would love to help with the Equipment Manual FROM HELL. I have been > working on a web based one in my spare time. Thinks like tents, clothing, > fishing and hunting supplies, etc. Need help let me know. Web based? Yuk! Real programmers don't use HTML, CGI, or Java ... :) Of course, I'm just kidding with you ... I like to criticize those languages which I'm not any good at ... :) Are you using a database, just putting it into HTML, or something else? Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:07:50 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Equipment Project Model 52 (AAT)French Cal.7.5mm French M1929 rimless Lenght overall Stock extended:45.9in Stock retracted:38.6in Barrel Lenght(quick-change) Heavy barrel w/o flash hinder:23.6in Light Barrel w/o flash hinder:19.3in Feed:50 round metallic nondisintegrating link Sight's:for:Barley corn rear:Tangent leaf w/U-notch Muzzle velocity:2690 f.p.s. Cyclic rate:700 rpm Weight:w/light barrel:21.7lbs. w/heavy barrel:23.28 lbs. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:32:21 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Equipment Project In a message dated 07/19/2000 5:08:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fmmeier@freshnet.de writes: << Weight - Availability - Cost - Service Date (e.g. 1970-1984; 1980s) - Nationality (e.g. US, UK, Soviet, etc..) >> I can give you weight's and who uses what plus other things like the one I sent out about the AAT.Service date will be hard.I don't have many of those.But I can bring in WWII weapons that might be still around. LIke the following M1931A(French) Cal.7.5mm Lenght:40.5 with flash hinder Weight:empty:27.48lbs. Barrel Lenght:23.5in Feed:36-round mag or 150 drum mag Weight of Mounts:Tripod:M2:16.22 lbs. Tripod:M1945:32.15lbs. Muzzle Velocity:2750 Rate of fire:750 rpm. French Model 1914 Cal:8mm Lebel Lenght:51.6in Barrel Lenght:31in Weight:Gun:55.7lbs.with Tripod 60lbs. Feed:24-30 round strip or 250-round belt Muzzle Volocity:2325fps.w/ball 1932N. Cycle rate:450-500 rpm. French Model:1915 Cal:8mm Lenght:45.2in Barrel Lenght:18.5in Weight:20lbs. w/bipod Feed:20 round mag inline crescent shape Muzzle Velocity:2300 fps Cyclic rate:240 rpm. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:35:49 -0700 From: "Rodney Felts" Subject: RE: Equipment Project Well I am not much of a programmer so I plan to use HTML. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com [mailto:owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Walter Rebsch Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 12:08 PM To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RE: Equipment Project > From: Rodney Felts > > I would love to help with the Equipment Manual FROM HELL. I have been > working on a web based one in my spare time. Thinks like tents, clothing, > fishing and hunting supplies, etc. Need help let me know. Web based? Yuk! Real programmers don't use HTML, CGI, or Java ... :) Of course, I'm just kidding with you ... I like to criticize those languages which I'm not any good at ... :) Are you using a database, just putting it into HTML, or something else? Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:55:26 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Equipment Project > From: Rodney Felts > > Well I am not much of a programmer so I plan to use HTML. > Sounds like joining forces with Frank might be the ticket ... Remember, I'd be happy to help with the format, if you want it to be easily parsable by a computer program. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:01:48 EDT From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Equipment Project In a message dated 07/19/2000 5:08:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fmmeier@freshnet.de writes: << Weight - Availability - Cost - Service Date (e.g. 1970-1984; 1980s) - Nationality (e.g. US, UK, Soviet, etc..) >> East German Well not much on them except They number AK and other Russian weapon diffent. For example:AK-47 with the wooden stock is called MPiK. West German: P-5 is a new P-38.Plus the P-6(P225)are all the same with the same saftey system. Ok here we go.Four pistols all West Greman FRG P5 P6 P7 Cal: 9x19mm 9x19mm 9x19mm 9x19mm Mag: 8 8 8 8 Muzzle Vol. 369 369 369 382 Overall Lt.: 7in 7in 7in 6.54in BArrel Lenght: 3.54in 3.84in 4.13in Weight 35.27oz 28.04oz 28.92oz 34.57oz G3 Cal:7.62mm Weight loaded w/bipod:9.9 lbs. Lenght:40.2in Barrel Lenght:17.7in Feed:20 Muzzle Velocity:2624 fps. Cyclic rate:500-600 rpm HK33 HK33K HK32 HK32K Cal: 5.56mm(.233) .233(5.56mm) 7.62mmx39mm 7.62mmx39m Barrel 15.35in 12.4 36.1 13.6 Weight: 6.6lbs 6.6lbs 6.6lbs 6.6lbs Mag: 20 40 30 30 Cyclic 600 600 600 600 Muzzle 3182 3018 2560 2493 P9 pistol Cal:9mm Weight:1.93lbs. Lenght:7.5in Barrel Lenght:4in Feed:9 round mag Muzzle Velocity:1180 fps. G41 Cal:5.56mmx45mm(SS109) Lenght:39.25in Barrel:18.9 Weight w/mag:7.94lbs. Mag:20 or 30 M-16 type Cyclic rate:850 Muzzle velocity:3250 fps. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:16:24 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) >PS: There was some guy that asked a question about changing weapon stats >from v2 to v1 about a week ago. No one ever answered him (that I saw >anyway). Does no one really have both versions? I only have v1, so I >couldn't help him. If there was a private answer to this question, please >CC it to the list. I'd like the answer too. > I own V2 and once upon a time I owned V1, damage and range roughly similar I think. Weights are the same, you can ignore bulk. You need to divide shots by 3 to get mag for most small arms. Penetration is somewhat similar to the armor multiplier for small arms and you can use the same values form v1 for a similar weapon of the same caliber, ie almost all 5.56mm rifles have the same penetration and should have the same Armor multiplier. I really don't have much of a clue how to convert the damage values for heavy weapons off hand since I don't remember how v1 does it and the only v1 book I can find right now is my old small arms guide. But I do remember that v2's vehicle armor ratings are done in something like 5mm increments vs 1mm in v1. So you could probably find penetration by multiplying a v2 penetration by 5. Sorry that's all I can remember at this point, less you'd like to send me some sample stats for weapons for v1. Then I might be able to figure out a conversion. But I hope you find this partially useful. Regards, JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:48:41 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: US Recoilless Rifles (first draft) > From: JC > > Sorry that's all I can remember at this point, less you'd like to send me > some sample stats for weapons for v1. Thanks. Any help is better than no help. Also, I have 1 v2 book (a US Vehicles Book) and it lists a value on recoil for weapons. This isn't in v1. How does it work? Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:04:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Ward Subject: Forged Documents - --0-1804289383-964040669=:26527 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can someone please tell me what types of documents will be forged. How long does it take to forge a document? What materials or supplies are required to forge a document? Are there certain documents that I should know about? Please help. Any information is greatly appreciated. - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-1804289383-964040669=:26527 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Can someone please tell me what types of documents will be forged.  How long does it take to forge a document?   What materials or supplies are required to forge a document?   Are there certain documents that I should know about?  Please help.  Any information is greatly appreciated.


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Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-1804289383-964040669=:26527-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:49:13 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Forged Documents >From: Matthew Ward > >Can someone please tell me what types of documents will be forged. How long >does it take to forge a document? What materials or supplies are required >to forge a document? Are there certain documents that I should know about? >Please help. Any information is greatly appreciated. Kinda broad question there ... Typically, ID might be forged by people wanting to infiltrate the other side and/or go somewhere they aren't supposed to. Maybe ID and Orders, if someone wants to 'sneak' into the enemy's supply dump in broad daylight and drive out with a bunch of stuff. Maybe counter-intelligence info to be placed where the enemy will find it. This might be maps, intel reports, CEOI's, etc... to lead the enemy where you want them. Maybe fake promotion papers if you're sick of being a private. Maybe fake orders to get you off the hook for some free lancing you did. Maybe fake enemy ID and fake orders for the enemy to get them to move somewhere? Is that the kind of stuff your talking about? Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:49:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Ward Subject: RE: Forged Documents - --0-1804289383-964050595=:26960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii YEah thats the type of stuff im talking about. How long would it take to forge documents? What supplies are needed?Any other types of documents that would be forged? - --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-1804289383-964050595=:26960 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

 YEah thats the type of stuff im talking about.  How long would it take to forge documents?  What supplies are needed?Any other types of documents that would be forged?


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Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! - --0-1804289383-964050595=:26960-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 19:47:59 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Forged Documents >From: Matthew Ward > >Yeah thats the type of stuff im talking about. How long would it take to >forge documents? What supplies are needed?Any other types of documents that >would be forged? I'm sure you can find plenty of info on forging IDs on the web. I don't know the particulars, but it can't be that hard. For orders, you probably just need paper, an IBM Selectric typewriter, and a copy of the enemy commander's signature. Maybe you'd also need a way to copy a unit letterhead. The hard part is knowing what to write and making it sound right. But at this stage of the war, I can't believe that orders are done on proper letterhead anymore. It would probably take several hours to come up with a decent set of orders that was pretty short (like 1 page). That's if you know what they are supposed to look like (ie. you have a real one to copy off of). Longer orders could take days. How long does it take you to write a 3 page report? Depends if you have to figure out what to type, or whether you can just start typing it. A G1/S1 admin puke that typed them all the time could probably just sit down and start typing if someone told him the gist of what it was supposed to say. That's what some of them do for a living anyway. A CEOI would take virtually forever unless you had specialized equipment. Then you could crank them out as fast the the printer would print. Everything you could do is just so different that it's impossible to come up with any "rules" for it. My advice is: just guess. That's what I'm doing right now. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 21:02:07 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Forged Documents Walter Rebsch wrote: > >From: Matthew Ward > > > >Yeah thats the type of stuff im talking about. How long would it take to > >forge documents? What supplies are needed?Any other types of documents > that > >would be forged? > > I'm sure you can find plenty of info on forging IDs on the web. I don't > know the particulars, but it can't be that hard. > > For orders, you probably just need paper, an IBM Selectric typewriter, and a > copy of the enemy commander's signature. Maybe you'd also need a way to > copy a unit letterhead. The hard part is knowing what to write and making > it sound right. But at this stage of the war, I can't believe that orders > are done on proper letterhead anymore. > > It would probably take several hours to come up with a decent set of orders > that was pretty short (like 1 page). That's if you know what they are > supposed to look like (ie. you have a real one to copy off of). Longer > orders could take days. How long does it take you to write a 3 page report? > Depends if you have to figure out what to type, or whether you can just > start typing it. A G1/S1 admin puke that typed them all the time could > probably just sit down and start typing if someone told him the gist of what > it was supposed to say. That's what some of them do for a living anyway. > > A CEOI would take virtually forever unless you had specialized equipment. > Then you could crank them out as fast the the printer would print. > > Everything you could do is just so different that it's impossible to come up > with any "rules" for it. My advice is: just guess. That's what I'm doing > right now. > > Walter What are military IDs like? (are they laminated, etc) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #168 *************************************