twilight2000-digest Monday, June 26 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 146 The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: Range cards and SFMGs RE: US Trailers Re: EPW's Re: EPW's air rules Re: Can I get a lift? Re: Can I get a lift? RE: Radios (Jim's on a roll) (LONG) Re: Can I get a lift? Re: EPW's Re: Can I get a lift? Re: Can I get a lift? Re: EPW's Re: air rules Re: EPW's Re: EPW's RE: Can I get a lift? RE: EPW's Re: EPW's RE: EPW's Re: EPW's Puerto Rico, circa T-2000. RE: EPW's Re: EPW's Re: EPW's The best Sov site *ever* ! Re: EPW's Re: EPW's SV: EPW's RE: EPW's RE: The best Sov site *ever* ! RE: EPW's Re: EPW's ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:12:40 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Range cards and SFMGs > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim & Peta Lawrie > > I know we have a few professionals here on the list's as well as some > well read enthusiast's. Could some of you explain the use of > range cards for > machine gun teams? What actually goes into Sustained Fire Machine Gunnery > anyway? I know that the UK tripod for the MAG SFMG has a traverse dial and > some presets, how are these used and what are they used for? Finally, we > generally see a MG as essentially a heavier individual weapon in > the various > games but old photos (WW2 etc) as well as new show a whole bunch of people > in a machine gun team. What do they do and when? What would some combat > tasks be for them? gradbarde already answered most of this. All I have to add is that typically you changed barrels after every 5 belts (500 rounds). Another nice thing is that the M60 fires from the open bolt, so you generally won't get it to 'run away' on you. A 'run away' weapon is one that contines to fire even though you stopped pressing the trigger. M249's can do this if you shoot about 1000 rounds through them without pausing longer than to change magazines, because the chamber gets hot enough to cook off the round without even pressing the trigger. M60's generally have to be really dirty before the sear can stick and the weapon won't stop, and it's easy enough to just break the ammo belt to stop it. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 15:16:19 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: US Trailers > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim & Peta Lawrie > > Perusing through the FAS site to get some info on US trailers for an > upcoming game, it seems that these are the standard US trailers. > > M1082 LMTV > Payload: 2250kg > Vehicle Curb Weight: 2950kg > > M1095 MTV > Payload: 4545kg > Vehicle Curb Weight: 4150kg > > I'd call them C/C but the price is a toughy, any ideas? > > Jim Trailers were a dime a dozen in the 82nd. We had almost as many trailers as we had vehicles. 1 ton (most of them), 2 ton (some) and water buffalo's (drinking water trailers) (few). Whatever they cost shouldn't be much, especially the 1 ton ones ... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:38:05 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: EPW's >From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" > > >Has anyone out there given thought to EPW's? > >In case you don't know EPW's are "Enemy Prisoners of War", > >as opposed to POW's (which is what we use to refer to our service > >members) > > >Craig > > In standard E&E scenario's we let them go if we're on the move and You mean like the German soldier in Saving Ryan's Privates? ... A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:19:44 -0500 From: Craig Gulledge Subject: Re: EPW's Brandon Cope wrote: > >From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" > > > > >Has anyone out there given thought to EPW's? > > > You mean like the German soldier in Saving Ryan's Privates? ... > No, more of a "big picture" question, what is NATO doing with WARPAC EPW's? I think it is safe to say they are going into camps, but where would these camps be located? Back in the States and Canada ? If so, what would the military authorities do with these EPW's when the going got tough later in the war? Craig *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:41:49 -0500 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: air rules i am thinking of doing a merc game with the players all being flyers. similar to a computer game called strike commander a few years back if anyone can remember it. i have not seen the aviation/nautical handbook, but i have been told it is pretty useless anyway. has anyone done any air rules for twilight or aircraft stats? regards aaron *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:04:15 NZST From: "Matt Swain" Subject: Re: Can I get a lift? >Yeah, my first lesson in combat: > >Urban combat really sucks, > >BECAUSE (lesson #2): > >You never know when that little turd with the RPG is gonna pop around >the corner you just passed to nail your most valuable vehicle in the >ass. Gotta agree with that! Our group has had 3 (count 'em, 3) APC's/Scout Cars and EVERY TIME we went out, we came back without it. The first (A BDRM-2) got toasted by some hotshot with an RPG at extremely close range - the fuel going off toasted the guy, but we got out mostly undamaged. The second (BTR-70) got left behind during a hostage rescue when some idiot (OK, it was me ;) critically failed the "get the hell out of Dodge" roll (i.e Diff. Driving), piled it into a lamppost and broke an axle; meaning we had to leg it out of a HOT zone with only a 60mm mortar in support. The third (BTR-80, I think) got smoked by a platoon of Soviet Guards, complete with two BTR-80's of their own. By the time we saw what we were up against, it was too late........ Lots of fun tho'...... Matt "Madman" Swain ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:34:33 +1200 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: Re: Can I get a lift? At 10:04 26/06/00 NZST, you wrote: >>Yeah, my first lesson in combat: >> >>Urban combat really sucks, >> >>BECAUSE (lesson #2): >> >>You never know when that little turd with the RPG is gonna pop around >>the corner you just passed to nail your most valuable vehicle in the >>ass. > >Gotta agree with that! Our group has had 3 (count 'em, 3) APC's/Scout Cars >and EVERY TIME we went out, we came back without it. The first (A BDRM-2) >got toasted by some hotshot with an RPG at extremely close range - the fuel >going off toasted the guy, but we got out mostly undamaged. The second >(BTR-70) got left behind during a hostage rescue when some idiot (OK, it was >me ;) critically failed the "get the hell out of Dodge" roll (i.e Diff. >Driving), piled it into a lamppost and broke an axle; meaning we had to leg >it out of a HOT zone with only a 60mm mortar in support. The third (BTR-80, >I think) got smoked by a platoon of Soviet Guards, complete with two >BTR-80's of their own. By the time we saw what we were up against, it was >too late........ Heh.... I was running this game.... the first case was when the group was, for one reason or another, attacking a bunch of marauders in a fire station. The guy with the RPG was waiting for the groups APC to drive past the big firestation doors, but instead of going past the PC driver decided to crash thru the doors to get in the building. The itchy triger finger reflex was a bitch.... The second case was one of the group had gotten captured and the rest were trying to save her.... she was in a fortified village. The group sent a strike team in to rescue her and had the APC and mortar for support. Once the strike team got hold of her, they called in for the backup. The mortar started lobbing rounds and blowing up a barricade for the APC to race thru to pick everyone up. Once all were in it took off but was getting rained on by small arms fire. Then Matt failed his roll and the APC got bust. Lots of running ensued, and the mortar (firing the whole time) even mamaged to land a shell behind the group which wounded one of the party. The last one was just a mess..... they thought they were facing a squad with one BTR, but there was a full recon platoon behind the nearby hill..... Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:00:21 -0700 (PDT) From: graebarde Subject: RE: Radios (Jim's on a roll) (LONG) reguarding radios the radio operators handbook covers many of the questions you have raised http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/24-19/toc.htm BTW the tradoc library has many field manuals (ca 225) available on all different subjects.. some are locked out unless your on active duty, but there is still an abundant amount of information (want information of the sawmill your party is setting up, the engineers have a book on it) daFORD Fight Light! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: graebarde Subject: Re: Can I get a lift? >>Yeah, my first lesson in combat: > >>Urban combat really sucks, ALL combat sucks, but urban more than some others:) > >>BECAUSE (lesson #2): > >> > >>You never know when that little turd with the RPG is gonna pop around the corner you just passed to nail your most valuable vehicle in the ass. > > Fight Light, and you don't worry about the vehicles:) IMO vehicles are good for basic transport and mobile base camps unless they're tanks or IFV's which can provide the necessary fire support. Other than that they're BIG targets. My first T2K vehicle was a LAV25 that lasted the first encounter, after that we've gone with the principle of "if I can't carry it, it's not that important" unless we "homestead". Live from the ruck, Fight from the LBE, and survive from the pockets. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:54:56 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: EPW's >You mean like the German soldier in Saving Ryan's Privates? ... Strange movie that, it's moral seemed to be that it's okay to shoot prisoners, not that it's stupid to force infantry to operate without support (resupply, EPW securement, casevac etc.) I wonder why Spielberg thought it was ugly that the evil Germans would shoot surendering allied troops but it was suitable for the interpreter to waste a German with his hands up. Maybe I missed the whole point. Even though they really made a good effort on realism (I never thought I'd see anyone drive a Tiger 1 like that in a film!) a lot was left out, allied airpower only got a brief mention at the very end of the film (the blue sky cavalry again) especially as it was good flying weather for most of the movie. I suppose it's possible to pick holes in anything though, I've got to admit that I stopped breathing from when the LC ramp went down until they got off the beach. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:04:15 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Can I get a lift? >Fight Light, and you don't worry about the vehicles:) Barde thinks anything with wheels or tracks is a "Rocket Magnet" Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:22:13 -0700 (PDT) From: graebarde Subject: Re: Can I get a lift? - --- Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > >Fight Light, and you don't worry about the vehicles:) > > Barde thinks anything with wheels or tracks is a "Rocket > Magnet" > Jim > You trying to tell me they aren't? :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:20:41 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: EPW's >No, more of a "big picture" question, what is NATO doing with WARPAC EPW's? >I think it is safe to say they are going into camps, but where would these >camps >be located? Back in the States and Canada ? >If so, what would the military authorities do with these EPW's when >the going got tough later in the war? > >Craig In my Shlactbrucke PbEM Campaign, EPW's are formed into work groups and alloted to individual brigades. Their care is overseen by the MP units that also oversee all other security work behind the lines (this what the players do, they're a combat unit assigned to the MPs to give them some oomph.) EPW work units are pretty well sought after, they come with an MP or two to watch them and if treated well make a lot of effort. They free up a lot of your manpower and allow you to spend time making your living area defensible (they're great at filling sandbags) and more comfortable. The MPs keep them right away from the front though, but you can always see them at Brigade, loading trucks and digging trenches. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:06:08 +1000 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: air rules - ----- Original Message ----- From: Fugitivus To: Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 8:41 AM Subject: air rules > i am thinking of doing a merc game with the players all being flyers. > similar to a computer game called strike commander a few years back if > anyone can remember it. > i have not seen the aviation/nautical handbook, but i have been told it > is pretty useless anyway. has anyone done any air rules for twilight or > aircraft stats? > > regards > aaron Hi Aaron, Frank Frey's "Air Module" from Challenge magazine is at my website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/6480/T2K.html IMHO it is has excellent air rules. The aircraft stats probably need updating. Peter Grining *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:19:49 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: EPW's At 09:54 AM 6/26/00 +1000, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: >>You mean like the German soldier in Saving Ryan's Privates? ... > > Strange movie that, it's moral seemed to be that it's okay to shoot >prisoners, not that it's stupid to force infantry to operate without support >(resupply, EPW securement, casevac etc.) I wonder why Spielberg thought it >was ugly that the evil Germans would shoot surendering allied troops but it >was suitable for the interpreter to waste a German with his hands up. Maybe >I missed the whole point. I did too, until someone pointed out to me later that the prisoner he shot was the prisoner they'd released earlier--the one who'd promised to turn himself in to an American patrol. In fact, not only did he go back on his word, but he was the German who killed the captain--the man who decided to let him live. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:21:42 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: EPW's At 10:20 AM 6/26/00 +1000, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > In my Shlactbrucke PbEM Campaign, EPW's are formed into work groups and >alloted to individual brigades. Their care is overseen by the MP units that >also oversee all other security work behind the lines (this what the players >do, they're a combat unit assigned to the MPs to give them some oomph.) EPW >work units are pretty well sought after, they come with an MP or two to >watch them and if treated well make a lot of effort. They free up a lot of >your manpower and allow you to spend time making your living area defensible >(they're great at filling sandbags) and more comfortable. The MPs keep them >right away from the front though, but you can always see them at Brigade, >loading trucks and digging trenches. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:35:53 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Can I get a lift? Matt Swain's experiences reminds me of one of those 'Murphy's Laws of Combat' sayings. It was, "When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy." I think the RPG-7 aught to be given a to-hit penalty because it is inherently so inaccurate (I'd say knock your hit number down about a quarter). Also, there is a reasonable chance that a green troop will forget to remove the fuse cap on the RPG-7 rocket before firing it (especially if he just barely passes his coolness roll when he was loading it). If you carry a rocket around without the fuse cap on the end of the rocket, then if you drop the rocket nose first it can go off. So if you suffer from knockdown right before firing the RPG-7, you might blow yourself up. Also, if you are firing from brush or into brush, there is a reasonable chance that the rocket will go off by brushing against a twig while flying. There was a story floating around the outprocessing area in Saudi Arabia when we were coming home about a guy that blew himself up stuffing a rocket into his duffle bag. I don't know if it really happened or not, but if so, that guy ought to be put up for a Darwin award. This is the reason the US Army put a safety device on the M72 LAW rocket that prevents the warhead from arming for about 10-15 feet out of the launcher. It was to prevent a leaf or a twig in the jungle's of Vietnam from detonating the rocket in the gunner's face. The RPG-7 still doesn't have this feature (at least not any that I heard of while I was in). Also, no disposable rockets I know of have decent night sights. It's almost impossible to aim the damn things unless you can see the little plastic pop-up sight. And if your wearing a gas mask, geeze! Have you ever tried to aim a weapon wearing a gas mask? A complete joke. Probably the only thing not affected much by wearing a gas mask is 'walking in' the tracers from a machine gun. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:38:08 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: EPW's > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of > the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? > > Scott Orr I thought it was only directly war-related work that was illegal? You know, fighting, building weapons, etc... General stuff like working on roads, farming, and stuff like that was legal I thought. Heck, I don't know for certain, but I'm sure it's on the web somewhere. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 20:51:14 -0700 (PDT) From: graebarde Subject: Re: EPW's see them at Brigade,loading trucks and digging trenches. > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? > The loading of trucks is permissible, however the digging of "trenches" is a gray area. What are the purposes of trenches? Irrigation, sewage lines, other civil works.. OK Defensive works... probably "illegal" under the "Law". EPW's are to be kept from harms way under the laws of war, so any defensive works, close to the front are "illegal". As for the question arrising in SB, nope. Why? We're too busy chasing the ethinic clensers, and other scum in the area. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 22:53:56 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: EPW's > >>You mean like the German soldier in Saving Ryan's Privates? ... > > > > Strange movie that, it's moral seemed to be that it's okay to shoot > >prisoners, not that it's stupid to force infantry to operate > without support > >(resupply, EPW securement, casevac etc.) I wonder why Spielberg > thought it > >was ugly that the evil Germans would shoot surendering allied > troops but it > >was suitable for the interpreter to waste a German with his > hands up. Maybe > >I missed the whole point. > > I did too, until someone pointed out to me later that the prisoner he shot > was the prisoner they'd released earlier--the one who'd promised to turn > himself in to an American patrol. In fact, not only did he go back on his > word, but he was the German who killed the captain--the man who decided to > let him live. I thought the point was that it was pretty much random who lived and who died. Some Germans were killed trying to surrender, so were some Americans. Some were killed after they surrendered (but probably most weren't), probably on both sides. I think the main point was that war is hell; and that in war, life can be very cheap. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:54:24 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: EPW's >Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of >the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? > >Scott Orr Good point Scott! The UN mandates and various conventions relating to POWs and forced labour state that it is permissable for Other Ranks to do 'reasonable work', but it is illegal to force Officers to do so. NCOs may be required to do supervisory work but may not be forced to do manual labour. All ranks may volunteer to do work, but you may not be coerced to do so (It then goes on to list the ways, it's pretty comprehensive.) In my campaign the only surviving social structures are military, based on the premise that they are designed to withstand a total war, and even they are pretty shaken. The militaries try as hard as they can to obey various laws to preserve their legitimacy, if they allowed the forced labour of prisoners it would be seen by the troops as a slackening of their original 'right' to order them to do something so supremely distasteful as kill people for apparently no reason. They'd rather give the EPWs an easy time than deal with non cooperative troops or an increqse in deserters. Generally, an EPW work party consists of between 20 and 30 other ranks and a few EPW NCOs with one MP per ten EPWs and an MP NCO supervisor. The EPW Officers generally stay in the camps and produce food to suppliment their rations, the PCs only eat cabbage soup most of the time! Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:40:28 +0000 From: "The Kevinator." Subject: Puerto Rico, circa T-2000. Hi folks, Not to get off-topic, but I've been out of the game for a while, been getting back into it recently, but it's been a good while since I've read any of the materials. Does anyone remember if anything was written about Puerto Rico in any of the GDW materials? And if so, which one(s)? Thanks in advance for any help. Kevin H. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:15:37 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: EPW's At 10:53 PM 6/25/00 -0500, Walter Rebsch wrote: >> I did too, until someone pointed out to me later that the prisoner he shot >> was the prisoner they'd released earlier--the one who'd promised to turn >> himself in to an American patrol. In fact, not only did he go back on his >> word, but he was the German who killed the captain--the man who decided to >> let him live. > >I thought the point was that it was pretty much random who lived and who >died. Some Germans were killed trying to surrender, so were some Americans. >Some were killed after they surrendered (but probably most weren't), >probably on both sides. I think the main point was that war is hell; and >that in war, life can be very cheap. > I have to differ with you: the U.S. soldier specificaly let several prisoners go just to kill the one guy he had been responsible for saving earlier. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 02:55:49 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: EPW's In a message dated 06/25/2000 8:26:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: << Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? >> To answer the second question, yes. Ask Jim, he'll tell you what fun tasks he and the others had to do while vacationing at the luxurious Vladimir Zhirinovsky Political Re-Education Camp. orrin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:03:42 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: EPW's ><< Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of > the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? > >> > >To answer the second question, yes. Ask Jim, he'll tell you what fun tasks >he and the others had to do while vacationing at the luxurious Vladimir >Zhirinovsky Political Re-Education Camp. (And the reason I know the rules is that my PC in that workers paradise was a UN peacekeeper!) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:42:08 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: The best Sov site *ever* ! Tibo found this site and passed it on, it details all the latest Russian gear. Includes the little manpack radars they hook up to their .50 cal MG, ships, tanks , dribble , drool etc. Shows the Russian kevlar vests, what all the gear looks like! Check it out ! http://www.rusarm.ru/main.htm Jim (I think the radio jamming round for the MLRS is pretty special!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 08:36:57 PDT From: "matthew henley" Subject: Re: EPW's . > > >Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of >the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? > >Scott Orr another good question, how long do you keep epw. Considering that in the t:2000 the war is not going to end in the clasike sense ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 20:22:49 +0300 From: "Merondil Twiceborn" Subject: Re: EPW's > > . > > > > >Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't forcing POW's to do work a violation of > >the laws of war? Has this issue even been raised in your campaign? > > > >Scott Orr > > another good question, how long do you keep epw. Considering that in the > t:2000 the war is not going to end in the clasike sense Forgive me...But I am relatively new to this list and I bought the game a week ago. I'm finnish, 14 yrs old and (oh a big surprise havent been to da army). So could someone please explain what are POW and EPW? Thank you, Eero Haapamäki *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:47:59 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mathias_K=F6ppen?=" Subject: SV: EPW's >Forgive me...But I am relatively new to this list and I bought the game a >week ago. I'm finnish, 14 yrs old and (oh a big surprise havent been to da >army). So could someone please explain what are POW and EPW? POW - Prisoners of War (when our own soldiers are taken prisoners by the enemy) EPW - Enemy Prisoners of War (when we take enemy soldiers as prisoners) Hope this clarifies things (and correct me if I'm wrong guys). /Mathias Köppen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:23:48 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: EPW's > > >Forgive me...But I am relatively new to this list and I bought the game a > >week ago. I'm finnish, 14 yrs old and (oh a big surprise havent > been to da > >army). So could someone please explain what are POW and EPW? > > > POW - Prisoners of War (when our own soldiers are taken prisoners > by the enemy) > EPW - Enemy Prisoners of War (when we take enemy soldiers as prisoners) > > Hope this clarifies things (and correct me if I'm wrong guys). > > /Mathias Köppen > Addition terms can be found at: http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/cross_ref.html It has a lot of useful acronyms listed. Maybe not the best out there, but it's a reasonable list. The list of chemical agents I haven't seen listed like that before in open documents. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:24:05 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: The best Sov site *ever* ! > From: Jim & Peta Lawrie > > Tibo found this site and passed it on, it details all the latest Russian > gear. Includes the little manpack radars they hook up to their .50 cal MG, > ships, tanks , dribble , drool etc. > Shows the Russian kevlar vests, what all the gear looks like! > > Check it out ! > > http://www.rusarm.ru/main.htm > > Jim > > (I think the radio jamming round for the MLRS is pretty special!) > Pretty cool stuff. Yeah, the radio jammer rocket is pretty funny. I guess it's mainly the expensive stuff they can't afford to build for themselves in large quantities. Unfortunately, they don't list the NATO designations on any of the AT missles, just the Russian names. >From the picture of their latest RPG-7V1, it looks like they are still using the ol' white plastic fuse cap on the tip of their rockets. I guess re-engineering it to auto-arm after launch would raise the cost of the rockets too much. Also, the stats on the AGS-17 look really impressive. That's a really dangerous pea-shooter! Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:24:16 -0500 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: EPW's > > > >I thought the point was that it was pretty much random who lived and who > >died. Some Germans were killed trying to surrender, so were some Americans. > >Some were killed after they surrendered (but probably most weren't), > >probably on both sides. I think the main point was that war is hell; and > >that in war, life can be very cheap. > > > I have to differ with you: the U.S. soldier specificaly let several > prisoners go just to kill the one guy he had been responsible for saving > earlier. > > Scott Orr > I was commenting more on the treatment of EPW's as a subject in the film as a whole, not on that particular scene near the end. The character that you are refering to in particular has a whole bunch of issues, and is the kind of person you need to weed out in basic training. He was completely worthless in combat. That's the kind of worthless moron that will get you killed if he's anything except a REMF (Rear Echelon Mother F%#^@!). We had a couple of those in our unit. Not many, but there always seem to be a couple around, that for some reason you could never get rid of. How they ever made it to the 82nd, I have no idea. There must have been a newbie blackhat in jump school that allowed them to graduate or something. Luckily, the 82nd had a lot less of them than most units. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 13:24:17 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: EPW's >From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" > > > I suppose it's possible to pick holes in anything though, I've got to >admit that I stopped breathing from when the LC ramp went down until they >got off the beach. I didn't like the movie at all. Weak plot, virtually no characterization, over-reliance on big budget effects. Not a movie I would recommend at all. Brandon ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #146 *************************************