twilight2000-digest Tuesday, March 21 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 140 The following topics are covered in this digest: Air force Jokes Re: Air force Jokes TOE: Denmark TOE: France More TOEs/Orders of Battle desired? Re: TOE: France Re: TOE: France Re: TOE: France Re: TOE: France Re: TOE: France Re: TOE: France Rate of Fire Re: Rate of Fire Re: Rate of Fire RE: Rate of Fire Re: Hummer with treads Re: Rate of Fire RE: Rate of Fire Re: Rate of Fire ROC elections Off-Topic: ROC elections Acronym Re: Acronym RE: Acronym Re: Acronym RE: Acronym and Introduction RE: Acronym and Introduction SMS Re: Acronym and Introduction Merc 2000 adventures ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 13:32:23 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: Air force Jokes I know this doesn't really apply to anything on the list, but it was very funny and I couldn't resist. I promise this won't be a habit "Squawks" are problem listings that pilots generally leave for maintenance crews to fix before the next flight. Here are some squawks submitted by US Air Force pilots and the replies from the maintenance crews. (P)=PROBLEM (S)=SOLUTION (P) Left inside main tire almost needs replacement (S) Almost replaced left inside main tire (P) Test flight OK, except autoland very rough (S) Autoland not installed on this aircraft (P) #2 Propeller seeping prop fluid (S) #2 Propeller seepage normal - #1 #3 and #4 propellers lack normal seepage (P) Something loose in cockpit (S) Something tightened in cockpit (P) Evidence of leak on right main landing gear (S) Evidence removed (P) DME volume unbelievably loud (S) Volume set to more believable level (P) Dead bugs on windshield (S) Live bugs on order (P) Autopilot in altitude hold mode produces a 200 fpm descent (S) Cannot reproduce problem on ground (P) IFF inoperative (S) IFF always inoperative in OFF mode (IFF-Identification Friend or Foe) (P) Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick (S) That's what they're there for (P) Number three engine missing (S) Engine found on right wing after brief search (P) Aircraft handles funny (S) Aircraft warned to straighten up, "fly right" and be serious (P) Target Radar hums (S) Reprogrammed Target Radar with the lyrics *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:09:41 -0000 From: "Roger Stenning" Subject: Re: Air force Jokes More squawks... P: Port engine fell off MC: Engine found, and replaced P: Port Trim tab adjustment stuck fifty mils out MC: Adjusted Trim Tab from fifty miles to one inch P: port trim tab heavy MC: Centred Trim tab P: Starboard wing heavy MC: Centred Trim tab P: Both wings heavy MC: [NOT QUOTED] Scroll down for the ever so slightly risque one... skip it, if you're under 18! Stewardess (dumb blond stereotype): "Why are we taking so long to take off, sir?" Pilot (wiseass ex-Air Farce fighter jock stereotype): "I'm waiting for this damn verticle eletrical gyro to erect properly." (failed in previous flight) Stewardess to passengers, over interphone: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Pilot has advised me that he's waiting for an erection, before we can take off...!" Best regards, Roger Stenning Webmaster, the Impossible Scenarios Group www.the-isg.co.uk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:37:38 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: TOE: Denmark Denmark Tank Company: 1 HQ section, with 2 MBT (Centurion 5/8 or Leopard 1) 3 Tank Platoons, each with 3 MBT (Centurion 5/8 or Leopard 1) Rifle Company: 1 HQ section, with 10 men 3 Rifle Platoons, each with 30 men 1 MG section, with 3 MG3 or M2 teams 1 AT section, with 3 Carl Gustav teams 1 Mortar section, with 2 81mm or 120mm mortars Rifle Battalion: 1 HQ section, with 5 men 1 jeep 4 Rifle Companies 1 Scout Platoon, with 4 jeeps 1 Mortar section, with 4 120mm mortars 6 trucks 1 Sp AT section, with 6 106mm RR jeeps Mechanized Company: 1 HQ section, with 10 men 1 M113 3 Mech Inf Platoons, each with 30 men 3 M113 1 MG section, with 2 MG3 or M2 teams 1 M113 1 SP Mortar Section, with 2 M125 or M106 1 SP ATGM section, with 2 TOW jeeps Mechanized Battalion: 1 HQ section, with 10 men 1 M113 1 Tank Company 2 Mech Inf Companies 1 SP Mortar Platoon, with 4 M106 or M125 SP mortars A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:38:54 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: TOE: France France Tank Squadron: 1 HQ section, with 1 AMX-30B2 or LeClerc 3 Tank platoons, with 4 AMX-30B2 or LeClerc 1 VAB-FO vehicle Tank Regiment: 1 HQ section, with 2 AMX-30B2 or LeClerc 4 Tank Squadrons Infantry Company: 1 HQ section, with 10 men 3 Rifle Platoons, each with 30 men 1 MG section, with 2 NF-1 MG teams 1 AT section, with 2 Milan or Eryx teams 1 Mortar Battery, with 6 120mm, 60mm or 81mm mortars Infantry Regiment: 1 HQ section, with 40 men 4 Infantry Companies Mechanized Infantry Company: 1 HQ section, with 8 men 1 AMX-10P 3 Mech Inf Rifle Platoons, each with 32 men 4 AMX-10P 1 AT section, with 3 Milan or Eryx teams 1 AMX-10P 1 MG section, with 3 NF-1 MG teams 1 AMX-10P Mechanized Regiment: 1 HQ section, with 24 men 3 AMX-10P 3 Mech Inf Companies 1 Mortar battery, with 6 VTT/PM 81mm or 120mm SP mortars 1 Tank Company, with 1 HQ section, with 1 AMX-30B2 or LeClerc tank 3 tank platoons, each with 4 AMX-30B2 or LeClerc tank 1 FO vehicle platoon, with 3 VAB-FO VAB Infantry Company: As Mech Company, but replace AMX-10P with VAB VTTs, drop the AT section. VAB Infantry Regiment: 1 HQ section, with 32 men 4 VAB VTT 3 VAB Inf Companies 1 Mortar Battery, with 6 VTT/PM 120mm or 81mm SP mortars A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:18:25 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: More TOEs/Orders of Battle desired? I can post info for other nation's company and battalion compositions if desired. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:39:49 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: TOE: France Would it be all right if I post these on my web page? I'll be sure to credit your name :) Brandon Cope wrote: *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:01:16 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: TOE: France TOE: France > Would it be all right if I post these on my web page? I'll be sure to credit > your name :) > > Brandon Cope wrote: > > I was thinking the same thing. Let me know, too. My page isn't much (not like some of the others.) Just a place that I've placed some of the files other's here have created for the game. Thought I'd make other resources available as the come up (like these TOEs.) Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:42:55 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: TOE: France Brandon, I asked this before, but didn't get an answer--was your Polish TO&E for the current Polish Army or the old Warsaw Pact one? Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 00:50:49 +0100 From: Antenna Subject: Re: TOE: France Well they are allready on the web, but as a mailing list archive (complete from the begining of this list). But any particular info is hard to access as the archive has no real good index of topics. You have to know the digest-number and the year it came out. I hope I don't step on some sour toes by having this archive. Time to hide deep in my cave, hopeing that the owners of the rights to the game will be somewhat pleased that the archive is out there somewhere. http://members.xoom.com/T2kilo/index.htm Antenna Corey Wells wrote: > > TOE: France > > > Would it be all right if I post these on my web page? I'll be sure to > credit > > your name :) > > > > Brandon Cope wrote: > > > > > > I was thinking the same thing. Let me know, too. My page isn't much (not > like some of the others.) Just a place that I've placed some of the files > other's here have created for the game. Thought I'd make other resources > available as the come up (like these TOEs.) > > Cor > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. - -- There are three types of people Those who use math, and those who don't... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:51:07 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: TOE: France >From: "Corey Wells" > > Would it be all right if I post these on my web page? I'll be sure to >credit > > your name :) > > > > Brandon Cope wrote: > > > > > >I was thinking the same thing. Let me know, too. My page isn't much (not >like some of the others.) Just a place that I've placed some of the files >other's here have created for the game. Thought I'd make other resources >available as the come up (like these TOEs.) > Given that these were only slightly adapted from Steel Panthers III, if you aren't worried about any potential copyright problems ... Brandon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:54:30 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: TOE: France > > Given that these were only slightly adapted from Steel Panthers III, if you > aren't worried about any potential copyright problems ... > > > Brandon > ______________________________________________________ Ha! Well, given that they are "slightly" adapted from SP3, and undoubtedly those were "slightly"adapted from unclassified information, or extrapolated from what would basically be public domain... It would probably be okay. Of course, if you hadn't told me that, I'd have nothing to worry about. Reasonable Doubt. These are TOEs, of real nations, so it would have been reasonable for me to assume that it was public information, and so I could easily claimed ignorance. But, now, because of these emails, that's out the window! :o) Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:04:35 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Rate of Fire One of the weirder things about ANY modern military game is the fact that they can't seem to get it right with heavy weapons fire rates. For instance, the TOW missile launcher. My Version 2.0 book lists it's Rld as 2, so every three 5 second phases you can launch one. This is twice as fast as the official US army figure. Cyberpunk 2020 gets it wrong too, you can fire an MBT cannon every six seconds. The various armies would be ecstatic if they could get those figures. I suggest that when you are using heavy weapons, have a quick look at the various weapons lists on the net for an official figure and use that. Your PCs, being experts, would be well aware of these rates and could plan for them. Except . . . A weapons team could go for an accelerated fire rate, this would be a leadership task for the team leader, modified by the teams Rating (Elite, Novice etc.) Novice teams may have a task three levels higher than an Elite team etc. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 02:10:36 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Rate of Fire At 05:04 PM 3/18/00 +1100, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > One of the weirder things about ANY modern military game is the fact >that they can't seem to get it right with heavy weapons fire rates. For >instance, the TOW missile launcher. > My Version 2.0 book lists it's Rld as 2, so every three 5 second phases >you can launch one. This is twice as fast as the official US army figure. > Cyberpunk 2020 gets it wrong too, you can fire an MBT cannon every six >seconds. The various armies would be ecstatic if they could get those >figures. Six seconds is in the realm of possibility, but IIRC that ROF would have a good chance of winning you the Canadian Cup tanking competition. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:56:20 EST From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Rate of Fire Imight be able to get real ROF *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 12:11:57 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Rate of Fire > At 05:04 PM 3/18/00 +1100, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > > One of the weirder things about ANY modern military game is the fact > >that they can't seem to get it right with heavy weapons fire rates. For > >instance, the TOW missile launcher. > > My Version 2.0 book lists it's Rld as 2, so every three 5 > second phases > >you can launch one. This is twice as fast as the official US army figure. > > Cyberpunk 2020 gets it wrong too, you can fire an MBT cannon > every six > >seconds. The various armies would be ecstatic if they could get those > >figures. > > Six seconds is in the realm of possibility, but IIRC that ROF would have a > good chance of winning you the Canadian Cup tanking competition. > > Scott Orr It would be great if you guys could summarize a list of changes to ROF's for various heavy weapons that you know about and let everyone know. They don't have to be perfectly accurate or anything, but if the Army publishes numbers on these things it would be great to have that info organized and translated into game info for those interested in realism. On a slightly different note, a while back I asked about reloading 20mm shells using 23mm ammo as a parts stock. The gist of the answers came back as: dump the 20mm and use a 23mm if thats the ammo you got. Well that ignores the fact that the 20mm Vulcan has a SHORT RANGE of 1200m. That Vulcan can outrange virtually anything in the game in direct fire. Of course, I know this isn't realistic, but using the combat system provided, the 20mm is FAR superior to the 23mm. Also it has a rate of fire of 5 per barrel. Extremely lethal to unarmored vehicles and dismounted troops. Probably a more realistic maximum ROF would be about 500, not 30. Maybe a practical ROF would be about 100 max. But who the heck wants to roll even a 100 sets of to hit rolls per combat round? Maybe it's time to forget rolling and just use 'percentage chance to hit' x 'rounds fired'. Plus, if your trying to be realistic, it could probably only engage area targets. When I saw a Vulcan Cannon engage a ground target on a practice range on Ft. Bragg it didn't look like a very accurate weapon. The tracers looked kinda-like an angry bee swarm from a cartoon, you know ... a big cloud of points of light shooting down range. I don't know what the ratio of tracers to non-tracers was, but there was a LOT of tracers in a huge cloud of bullets flying down range. I wouldn't want to be within 500 yards of something being shot at by one of those. It hit EVERYTHING within a couple degree arc of where it was pointed. It was a towed Vulcan cannon on a trailer meant for AAA. Has anyone devised any rules for 'walking-in' automatic fire? Kinda like the rules of indirect fire corrections. The way the current rules are, you can't engage a target over 240m (the end of Med range) with an M60 on a tripod effectively. I KNOW that's a bunch of bull, because I've hit targets much farther than that with an M60. When it's on a tripod, the weapon is VERY controllable and accurate, but I have little experience with them on a bipod. Once on a range, there was an old tank on a firing range about 1200m away. After a few seconds of 'walking-in' the fire, I could get almost every tracer to bounce off the tank by 'arc-ing them in'. And I suck at shooting an M60. It's kinda like aiming a water hose. After a few seconds you can put the end of that stream on anything within range and just hold it there. Now to put the first one on target would be very hard, and if you didn't have tracers it would be almost impossible to 'walk-in' unless you could see the bullet impacts. Is there some proper term for the technique of 'walking-in' fire with an automatic weapon? There are other automatic weapons that become more uncontrollable the longer you shoot them. The worst I ever shot was a Russian AK-47 with a folding stock. You would be doing extremely well just to keep the bullets within a 10 degree arc when shooting with the stock folded. No bullet but the first one has a snow balls chance in hell of hitting anything other than by pure luck. The AK-74 with a folding stock was much better, the lighter 5.45 round makes all the difference. Does Twilight v2 (or v2.2) have any better rules on the effects on weapon kick and controllablility? Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 14:30:25 EST From: Damage169@cs.com Subject: Re: Hummer with treads In a message dated Tue, 14 Mar 2000 18:05:58 -0600, "Billy Ingram" writes: > > That is an odd-looking thing! Any information at to whether this is a > production vehicle, what unit it's from, or its performance? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com > > [mailto:owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Kevin > > O'Dell > > Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 12:55 PM > > To: T2K Info List (E-mail) > > Subject: here is a link to a humvee w/ treads > > > > > > http://www.defenselink.mil/photos/Mar1997/970208-M-8708Y-001.jpg I may be mistaken, but several years ago I read about a car option package that either Volvo or Saab was offering with their luxury sedans that involved these tread-things. IIRC, they're actually individual units which can be mounted on the car almost as easily as a spare tire, although I think the vehicle has to have continual 4 wheel drive (not switchable, or at least not switched while the treads are mounted). I'll do some additional research and let you know. Doug Grimes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 07:34:39 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Rate of Fire >Imight be able to get real ROF >*************************************************************************** It's easy if you look about, the net has a wide variety of good sources. The absolute best in my opinion is the very well researched FAS site, here's the URL: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/index.html definitely the best information on US weaponry, vehicles and equipment. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 17:55:14 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: Rate of Fire At 12:11 PM 3/18/00 -0600, Walter Rebsch wrote: >Has anyone devised any rules for 'walking-in' automatic fire? Kinda like >the rules of indirect fire corrections. The way the current rules are, you >can't engage a target over 240m (the end of Med range) with an M60 on a >tripod effectively. I KNOW that's a bunch of bull, because I've hit targets >much farther than that with an M60. When it's on a tripod, the weapon is >VERY controllable and accurate, but I have little experience with them on a >bipod. Once on a range, there was an old tank on a firing range about 1200m >away. After a few seconds of 'walking-in' the fire, I could get almost >every tracer to bounce off the tank by 'arc-ing them in'. And I suck at >shooting an M60. It's kinda like aiming a water hose. After a few seconds >you can put the end of that stream on anything within range and just hold it >there. Now to put the first one on target would be very hard, and if you >didn't have tracers it would be almost impossible to 'walk-in' unless you >could see the bullet impacts. Is there some proper term for the technique >of 'walking-in' fire with an automatic weapon? > >There are other automatic weapons that become more uncontrollable the longer >you shoot them. The worst I ever shot was a Russian AK-47 with a folding >stock. You would be doing extremely well just to keep the bullets within a >10 degree arc when shooting with the stock folded. No bullet but the first >one has a snow balls chance in hell of hitting anything other than by pure >luck. The AK-74 with a folding stock was much better, the lighter 5.45 >round makes all the difference. Does Twilight v2 (or v2.2) have any better >rules on the effects on weapon kick and controllablility? > GURPS actually has reasonably good rules for both of these things, though I don't think any version of TW2K does. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 06:09:56 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Rate of Fire > It hit EVERYTHING within a > couple degree arc of where it was pointed. It was a towed Vulcan cannon on > a trailer meant for AAA. What you have hit on here is called the "beating zone". All MG's from around 7.62mm upward will create this zone. Each one usually has a different sized pattern. This is due to the fact that not every round will have exactly the same trajectory ect because of different reasons. What you effectively end up with is a cone shaped zone of impact. You could devise rules to allow for damage to be dished out similar to an explosive weapon, without the concusion. Most armies use the weapons for direct fire support, using the set up as described below (tripod). > Has anyone devised any rules for 'walking-in' automatic fire? Kinda like > the rules of indirect fire corrections. The way the current rules are, you > can't engage a target over 240m (the end of Med range) with an M60 on a > tripod effectively. I KNOW that's a bunch of bull, because I've hit targets > much farther than that with an M60. When it's on a tripod, the weapon is > VERY controllable and accurate, but I have little experience with them on a > bipod > There are other automatic weapons that become more uncontrollable the longer > you shoot them. The worst I ever shot was a Russian AK-47 with a folding > stock. You would be doing extremely well just to keep the bullets within a > 10 degree arc when shooting with the stock folded. This is the recoil factor, tripods pretty much ignore the recoil factor. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 03:12:59 EST From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: ROC elections Well, if you don't know by now, the elections in Taiwan are over. Chen Shui Ban, the Democratic Progress Party candidate won. Although his party's main platform has been Taiwanese independence, he has stated that he's going to talk with the PRC. Political doublespeak to gain votes maybe? No deployment of CVBGs to the Taiwan straits either. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:03:00 +1200 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: Off-Topic: ROC elections At 03:12 19/03/00 EST, you wrote: >Well, if you don't know by now, the elections in Taiwan are over. Chen Shui >Ban, the Democratic Progress Party candidate won. Although his party's main >platform has been Taiwanese independence, he has stated that he's going to >talk with the PRC. Political doublespeak to gain votes maybe? Apparently, the Indepedent candidate (Soong, an ex-KMT man who was out of favour with the last president) should probably have won the election, but for the following: In the last ten days of the election campaign, Taiwan law does not allow any opinion polls of how the candidates are doin in the race. The KMT (old ruling party) started to say that Soong was getting so few votes he was out of the race, and that the people should vote for the KMT candidate if they wanted a vote for peace. Otherwise, they said, the people would be wasting their vote on him. The final returns were something like 36% for Chen, 34% for Soong and 24% for the KMT candidate. Now apparently a lot of the older people who listened to the KMT and cast their vote for the KMT rather than for Soong are really up in arms. They have been staging protests, etc, outside the house of the KMT leader, Lee Teng Hui (sp) as he basically lied to them. They really did waste their votes, but did so on the KMT candidate. If Lee had let things run their normal course, Soong probably would have been president. Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:04:33 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: Acronym In case some others (like me) were a bit mystified by the acronym IIRC, it means: If I Recall/Remember Correctly. I guess I am exposing the fact that I'm not a mailing list/chat slang guru. Just trying to help those who didn't want to de-cloak/de-lurk to ask, or didn't feel like looking it up yourself, or I guess it's possible that I'm the only one who didn't know. And if any of you have other computing/chat related acronyms you want to look up, you can try this place: http://burks.bton.ac.uk/burks/foldoc/84/ It's a "Free On-line Dictionary of Computing". It probably isn't the best, but it's the first one I ran across while looking up IIRC. It seems to have a good deal of phases and general technical terms that probably aren't in webster yet also. Just in case there is someone out there with less internet chat experience than me: a couple other commonly used ones are: IMHO: In My Humble Opinion BTW: By The Way LOL: either "Laughing Out Loud" or "Lots of Luck" (flip a coin, most of the time it's hard to tell from the context what the the heck they meant) There are probably a million more of these goofy things. I'm sure there is still someone out there with a 1200 baud modem that appreciates the difference in download time using these things makes. But I'll conceed that they are quicker to type... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 18:40:57 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Acronym Walter Rebsch wrote: > > There are probably a million more of these goofy things. I'm sure there is > still someone out there with a 1200 baud modem that appreciates the > difference in download time using these things makes. But I'll conceed that > they are quicker to type... > > Walter Hmm the ones I see the most are rtfm, stfu, and gfy, but are not appropriate for this list hehe *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:49:27 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Acronym > Hmm the ones I see the most are rtfm, stfu, and gfy, but are not > appropriate for > this list hehe > Thanks man. More stuff for me to look up. I appreciate it. I got nothing better to do. Also, I noticed that the link I posted to that dictionary doesn't seem to get you in the web site properly. It's just where the link from Alta-Vista dumped me. The proper link is: http://burks.bton.ac.uk/burks/index.htm Actually, RTFM could sometimes be used here, since T2K does have manuals. It is supposed to stand for 'Read The F*@#ing Manual'. Apparently to be used either insultingly by telling someone to RTFM, or politely by saying that you already RTFM. 'stfy' and 'gfy' weren't in that dictionary and I don't feel like searching for the info. Well. You brought them up. We are already OT. So spill, what do the damn things mean? Also, I've noticed that some other people here mentioned that there is another T2K mailing list. Where? And there are supposed to be some sort of archive of our messages on this list. Where? Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 17:17:22 +0100 From: Antenna Subject: Re: Acronym Walter Rebsch wrote: > And there are supposed to be some sort of > archive of our messages on this list. Where? > > Walter > http://members.xoom.com/T2kilo/index.htm Choose "Mailing List archive". There are no searchengine for the archive, and it dates back to 1996. Antenna - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are three types of people Antenna's law of regulation Those who use math, The use of any law, and those who don't... affects only those who follow them. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 08:27:01 NZST From: "Matt Swain" Subject: RE: Acronym and Introduction >'stfy' and 'gfy' weren't in that dictionary and I don't feel like searching >for the info. Well. You brought them up. We are already OT. So spill, >what do the damn things mean? Ahem. STFU (Not y) : Shut the F**k up GFY : Go F**k yourself Oh, BTW (<-- There's another one for ya) this is my first post on this list - - hi! A little bit of background (if anyone cares) - I've been playing D&D for the last 6-7 years, and before that played a bit of Advanced Recon (Vietnam). Andrew Tiffany (who's also on the list) introduced me to T2K last year, and we started a campaign about 2 month ago, which finished abruptly when we ran into a couple of BMP-2's and associated squads. We started a Merc:2000 campaign last night, and managed to get half the London police force down to the docks (automatic fire and flash-bang grenades will do that ;) Looking forward to what you guys have to offer! Matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:50:35 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Acronym and Introduction Matt, Thanks for the explaination on the acronyms. And I think Peter was right, they probably aren't appropriate for the list in general usage. Yes, I think most on this list do care what the various people are doing with the game. It provides nice ideas and food-for-thought for the various games people have going. Welcome aboard and don't be shy. The more you contribute, the more everyone will get out of this. Sometimes we get in little arguments and flame wars, but generally everyone is well meaning and helpful (or we try to be, whether or not we succeed is up for your own interpretation). Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 22:13:36 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mathias_K=F6ppen?=" Subject: SMS Hi guys. Just wondering about a little program I found the other day. It's called Strategic Map Simulation. Has anyone on the list used it with role-playing? How did it work out? Any problems? /Mathias *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:16:45 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Acronym and Introduction Matt Swain wrote: > >'stfy' and 'gfy' weren't in that dictionary and I don't feel like searching > >for the info. Well. You brought them up. We are already OT. So spill, > >what do the damn things mean? > > Ahem. > > STFU (Not y) : Shut the F**k up > > GFY : Go F**k yourself > > Oh, BTW (<-- There's another one for ya) this is my first post on this list > - hi! > > A little bit of background (if anyone cares) - I've been playing D&D for the > last 6-7 years, and before that played a bit of Advanced Recon (Vietnam). > Andrew Tiffany (who's also on the list) introduced me to T2K last year, and > we started a campaign about 2 month ago, which finished abruptly when we ran > into a couple of BMP-2's and associated squads. We started a Merc:2000 > campaign last night, and managed to get half the London police force down to > the docks (automatic fire and flash-bang grenades will do that ;) > > Looking forward to what you guys have to offer! > > Matt > For an explanation of GFY: http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy Dont look if you think you might get offended :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 11:52:22 +1200 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: Merc 2000 adventures Hi all Well, the Merc campaign I started is going OK so far..... I have been hunting around the net and found a couple of adventures. Also, I have been looking for Chris Callahan's site/adventures, people all say they are good but I can't find his site (if it still exists), and anyone help??? If anyone is interested in the adventure I ran last session (in London, really simple little scenario involving an arms shipment by a criminal gang), let me know and I can email it to you. (1 x Word97 [or RTF or TXT] doc, 1 x CorelDraw [or JPG] picture) Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #140 *************************************