twilight2000-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 136 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: M79 grenade launcher RE: Terrain Comments Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: Australian Info Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: Australian Info Re: Safties (Was M79 gl) Re: Topics in this list Re: Safties (Was M79 gl) Re: Australian Info RE: Safties (Was M79 gl) Re: Australian Info Re: Australian Info A few questions Re: A few questions Re: Australian Info Re: A few questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:26:53 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: M79 grenade launcher > how do you gm's handle safty's do you assume players with military > trainings automaticly switch them off, or if the player doesn't say it he > doesn't do it? > aaron I have always considered switching the safety off as part of their firing sequence. I don't make them state it any more than I make them state cocking the weapons- just seems a bit silly to me. However, I have made one character state it- the player was running a Red Cross Nurse who had ditched the targets... uhm... crosses and taken up arms. With her very low pistol skill and general unfamiliarity with weapons as both a player and character, I made her remove the safety, and cock the weapon in order to use it. Just a small note, we allow use of SMG's with pistol or rifle skills. Anyway, I do make the PCs tell me if they are putting safeties on, although they can set up an SOP that their weapons are carried with safety on/off and then they have to state otherwise to carry the opposite way. Hope that helped. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:36:20 -0600 From: "Walter" Subject: RE: Terrain Comments > > I have a question for you, If my group of PC's are approaching an enemy > encampment with night vision goggles, what is the best defense > from keeping the PC's from having an advantage. Well, I'd hate to say something is 'best', but I can give you some ideas. Typical NVG's amplifiy light so much that any light you can actually see is probably too much for the NVG's. They might not shut down, but they will certainly saturate and everything around that object will be obscured by glare. The first time I ever wore NVG's was at a driver's training class to get qualified on the Hummer. One time a headlight from a truck pointed right at me from about a half mile away and it shutdown my goggles. Now granted it had to be pointed right at me before they shutdown, but still it was a long way off. An illumination shell would, of course, be ideal. But you said you were out of them. I assume that your guys don't have NVG's either huh? Don't let them make aimed shots wearing NVG's. Your distance perception sucks wearing these things, so increase the range penalty. Thermite grenades burn so damn bright you can hardly look at them (kinda like looking at a welding torch). Looking at one of those would certainly shutdown the goggles. Of course, they'll come right back on again in a few seconds, but that would be long enough to maneuver to new positions. WP grenades are pretty bright and NVG's can't see through the smoke they make, so that's another advantage. The flashlight idea might work until they shoot the flashlights (maybe kinda hard at longer ranges!), but again that buys you time to maneuver. Any kind of fire you could set remotely may work (soak a dry log in ethanol to make sure it'll start good, put it under a stack of fire wood and rig up a remote igniter). One thing that is many times overlooked by civilians is 'noise and light discipline'. On a still quiet night, do you really think you can just sneak up on an OP/LP (Observation Post/Listening Post) without them hearing you? I guess it depends on the troops doing the sneaking, the troops in the OP, the terrain and the weather. No vehicle is going to sneak up on hidden dismounted troops unless it's in the middle of a thunderstorm at night. Even then it would be hard. Having the defending troops establish good OP's and LP's is essential. String up concertina wire along possible avenues of approach. Seeing concertina wire at night with or without NVG's is HARD! I won't even mention how many uniforms I ruined on that terrible stuff, it's too embarrasing. A trip wire with a few little bells on it (like a wind chime) about 20m (nice grenade range) from the LP would be outstanding. Set up a claymore or two. Ok, maybe no claymores, all the PC's will die and the game won't be fun anymore. If they know anything about electronics, have them jerry rig up some motion detectors from old burgalar alarms. Create electronic tripwires from the optical safety switches on garage door openers. String a wire along and hook it to the inputs of a car alarm with a proximity sensor (You're too close to the vehicle, step back! Don't you hate those idiot things!). And above all, role play up the fog of war! Force the PC's to make a new recon roll every time they loose sight of the enemy and want to re-acquire. Thats all I can think of off the top of my head right now. I gotta go, I'll be off-line for 3 days. See ya. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:49:04 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units > > I also can post selected Russian and (West) German units, if there is > interest. > > A generous and sadistic GM, > > Brandon Cope > ______________________________________________________ Actually, that would be good as well, since my group will be starting (probably) in northeast Europe. If no one else is asking for it, go ahead and send it directly to me at baiya@geocities.com Thanks again, Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:50:16 -0700 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Corey Wells wrote: > > > > I also can post selected Russian and (West) German units, if there is > > interest. > > > > A generous and sadistic GM, > > > > Brandon Cope > > ______________________________________________________ Sounds good to me... always looking for good intel. Just use the email listed here if you do not wish to post it for everyone... T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:11:50 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units > > I also can post selected Russian and (West) German units, if there is > > interest. > > Brandon Cope > Actually, that would be good as well, since my group will be starting > (probably) in northeast Europe. If no one else is asking for it, go ahead > and send it directly to me at baiya@geocities.com > Cor Hey, I'm asking :-) Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:49:58 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units >From: "Corey Wells" > > > > I also can post selected Russian and (West) German units, if there is > > interest. > >Actually, that would be good as well, since my group will be starting >(probably) in northeast Europe. If no one else is asking for it, go ahead >and send it directly to me at baiya@geocities.com I will warn everyone in advance that these come from SP3 and not from any "official" documents. A generous and sadistic GM, Branddon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:00:28 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Australian Info >Hey all, > >I'm working up some background for an adventure set in Australia. I've >never been to Australia, so I have a pretty limited knowledge of Since >I know some of you either live in Australia or are familiar with the >Aussie military, I'd be interested to hear some feedback on whether the >following sounds remotely accurate. Have I missed anything important? > >AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR TARGETS: (assumes the exchange hit Australia) I only have one problem with this, but it's a biggy. Australia is nowhere near a first echelon target, but here the Pact (and who else?) are giving them a VERY thorough going over. Now, the US didn't get this kind of blanket destruction. I know the US received far more warheads, but these missiles would do far more damage strategically if they detonated on US targets rather than a mainly unpopulated country in a different hemisphere. Given the 'Claytons' nuclear war postulated in the timeline, I'm critical that Australia received one warhead. Very comprehensive though, I'm not critical of all the work you've done. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:58:22 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units > > > I also can post selected Russian and (West) German units, if there is > > > interest. > I will warn everyone in advance that these come from SP3 and not from any > "official" documents. > Branddon Cope Noted and no worries on my end :-) Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:00:08 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Australian Info - -----Original Message----- From: Rob Barnes To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Monday, 13 March 2000 23:30 Subject: Australian Info >Hey all, > >I'm working up some background for an adventure set in Australia. I've >never been to Australia, so I have a pretty limited knowledge of Since >I know some of you either live in Australia or are familiar with the >Aussie military, I'd be interested to hear some feedback on whether the >following sounds remotely accurate. Have I missed anything important? I'm not 100% up on ICBM, but as I understand these most have MIRV (Multiple Indepedent Reentry Vehicles), usually 4-10 depening on the missile? I'm not sure how far apart would be a maximum. My point is possibly you'd get some hits purely from the 'extras'. >AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR TARGETS: (assumes the exchange hit Australia) >Adelaide, S.A. : Port Stanvac -- Mobil Oil refinery complex (500kt >airburst) See above, perhaps the 'extras' would hit the city and airport. Perhaps RAAF Edinburgh (air force base), but how far is this from Adelaide? >Melbourne, Vict. : Altona -- Mobil Oil refinery complex, port >facilities (2x 500kt airbursts) >Geelong, Vict.: Shell Oil refinery complex (500kt airburst) Fair enough, depending on how far apart MIRV can be targeted, the same missile. Perhaps add RAAF Pearce? >Sydney, NSW: Kurnell -- Caltex Oil refinery complex, port facilities >(2x 500kt airbursts) Add one for Fleet Base West at Garden Island in Sydney harbour, not too far from the Opera House & bridge. Sydney is the only deep water port in the southern hemisphere that a USN aircraft could enter with ease. >Perth, W.A. : Kwinana -- BP Oil refinery complex (500kt airburst), >Perth port facilities (500kt airburst) No, Perth has no port facilities. Fremantle is the deep water port for container ships. Only small draft pleasure craft can travel up the river to Perth. Add another one for Fleet Base West. This is around 40 km south of Fremantle/Perth. >Canberra, ACT: Australian military HQ, seat of government (1MT, >airburst) Fair enough. >Wollongong, NSW: Industrial and port facilities (2x500kt airbursts) >Newcastle, NSW: Industrial and port facilities (2x 500kt airbursts) Both aren't far from Sydney, perhaps same ICBMs? >Brisbane, Qsld: Oil refinery complex, port facilities (2x500kt >airbursts) Add RAAF Darwin (Darwin airport) & RAAF Tindal (300 km south Darwin, near Katherine). Both are B-52 capable and whomever is throwing nukes would know this. The original 1980s plan was to base B-52s out of Darwin during a nuclear war. They would fly up through China and attack the 'soft under belly' of the USSR. >Note: this target list would result in a civilian casualty level of >around 30%, from an already small population. > >AUSTRALIAN ORDER OF BATTLE (July 1st, 2000, major units only) >1st Bde: Darwin, NT >3rd Bde: (dispersed) vcty of Alice Springs, NT Alice Springs? What for? Once you are out of Darwin/Katherine area not much support infrastructure. Perhaps the 3rd Bde was at RAAF Tindal when it was nuked, and is currently combat ineffective (that is largely destroyed)? >7th Bde: vcty of Brisbane, Qsld >11th Bde: Cairns, Qsld >4th Bde: Vcty of Melbourne, Vict. >5th Bde: Vcty of Sydney, NSW >8th Bde: Vcty of Newcastle, NSW >9th Bde: (dispersed) Vcty of Adelaide, SA with some troops as far away >as Broken Hill, NSW >13th Bde: Freemantle, WA (vcty of Perth) Thats spelt 'Fremantle', but a common mistake. For Australia after a nuclear war with the food distribution system broken down, large populations are only possiblenear Darwin, in the SW 'corner' of WA ( around Perth, etc) and the eastern states (including Tasmania) & parts of SA (near Victoria & NSW). >I have no idea what a "typical" Australian Brigade strength would be, >but I am estimating remaining unit strengths to be anywhere from 100 to >1000 troops as of 2000. I also expect that there are a lot of smaller >units wandering around the more remote areas. I figure most of the >recovery effort will be in NSW and Victoria, with the majority of the >continent being uncontrolled. Some of the more remote units would be >out of communication with any higher command and would effectively be >independent govenments. Figure 2-3 infantry battalions with some pure 'leg', some M113 and a few with LAVs. Artillery is towed 105mm & 155mm. Peter G *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:04:12 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: Safties (Was M79 gl) > I have always considered switching the safety off as part of their >firing >sequence. I don't make them state it any more than I make them state >cocking the weapons- just seems a bit silly to me. Yeah, makes sense that people with military training/familiarity with weapons and combat experience would know when and when not to put their firearm on safe. Once though I had a situation in Merc 2000 when the referee took our actions into account when he had one of our rookie players click his safety to off right as we were waiting for a Nigerian patrol walk into the killzone of our ambush, which sort of ruined the surprise factor, heh. Regards, JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 15:13:47 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: Topics in this list Pasi Parviainen wrote: > I have to agree with Pietu. So... get on topic! > > I have been in three different Traveller maillist and had to dump them all > when them got too noisy > > I'm really afraid that this list has come also useless... That's when I have > to delete 18 to 19 messages of 20 of being irrelevant for GAME. > > Over and out... > > PS. You should have Finnish discipline to send only relevant questions and > most importantly, to only answer with relevant info. > (read it seriously, but don't get pissed :) > I see your point, as I am just a guilt as the next, but do you want a dynamic list or a dead static one? (At least there has been very little flaming, considering the some of the topics, I have yet to see someone use hostile pointless words) Pasi, do you have any ideas for a T2K module? Perhaps we could use all this knowledge to build a detailed custom scenario for you? Just get us started. :) Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:12:44 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Safties (Was M79 gl) >Yeah, makes sense that people with military training/familiarity with >weapons and combat experience would know when and when not >to put their firearm on safe. Once though I had a situation in >Merc 2000 when the referee took our actions into account when >he had one of our rookie players click his safety to off right as we >were waiting for a Nigerian patrol walk into the killzone of our >ambush, which sort of ruined the surprise factor, heh. >JC I always find it useful to as GM close my eyes for a second before each combat and imagine what could go wrong. Now I assume that the characters are actually there and are aware of these things as well, but if anything goes wrong it's a good idea to use these situations. Grenades are a favourite for this, it's very easy to kill people on your own side with a grenade as the nasty little suckers aren't choosy about where the frag goes. I have often made very vague and confusing descriptions of firefights, they occasionally result in fratricide but now my group has great cohesiveness in combat. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:20:41 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: Australian Info i agree with jim, australia is pretty low on the importance list, add to that we have no nukes, they could deal with the bigger problems and nuke us at their lesuire. they may nuke the biggest cities, but i am not sure they would hit all of them. the oil targets could be destroyed with more conventional means. after such a heavy strike there may not be much left worth invading. other targets... hobart, i am not sure i saw it there. raaf amberly. from memory this is where the f-111's are stationed. would cut our strike power. raaf williamtown is where the f-18's are plus others. not sure if someone mentioned it already. but you have done alot of work on it and it looks like it has alot of potential. aaron > I only have one problem with this, but it's a biggy. Australia is > nowhere near a first echelon target, but here the Pact (and who else?) are > giving them a VERY thorough going over. Now, the US didn't get this kind of > blanket destruction. I know the US received far more warheads, but these > missiles would do far more damage strategically if they detonated on US > targets rather than a mainly unpopulated country in a different hemisphere. > Given the 'Claytons' nuclear war postulated in the timeline, I'm > critical that Australia received one warhead. > Very comprehensive though, I'm not critical of all the work you've done. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:36:57 +1300 From: "Gray, Raymond" Subject: RE: Safties (Was M79 gl) As a recon scout, we never have safties on when we are on a cbt patrol. But as an interesting aside, the AUS force in Timor has had something like 50+ UDs, incl some poor bastard shooting his mate in the foot. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:56:52 -0500 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Australian Info I often wondered if the USSR/Russia would target Australia since a lot of their ICBM's are targeted towards North America via a polar route. I know they could use SLBM's launched from a sub or maybe use bombers although in the latter, the RAAF would be able to knock some of them down before they make it to their targets. I really can't see the Soviets making Australia a high priority target although I think with the Red Chinese, it could be a different story. Any thoughts, ideas, etc? Chuck, curious on Australia's role in WWIII - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:12:09 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Australian Info > I only have one problem with this, but it's a biggy. Australia is > nowhere near a first echelon target, but here the Pact (and who else?) are > giving them a VERY thorough going over. Now, the US didn't get this kind of > blanket destruction. I know the US received far more warheads, but these > missiles would do far more damage strategically if they detonated on US > targets rather than a mainly unpopulated country in a different hemisphere. > Given the 'Claytons' nuclear war postulated in the timeline, I'm > critical that Australia received one warhead. > Very comprehensive though, I'm not critical of all the work you've done. > Jim > Wouldn't Australia get hits, especially any industrial or port facilities, to deny their use by the Enemy (US and NATO)? At least by the T2K timelines, it made sense, as even neutral countries were target in order to deny access. And since Australia has traditionally been friendly and supportive towards US and western Europe, I can easily see East Bloc hitting it. Especially after the west US ports have been hit, wouldn't want those ships to repair and refit in OZ. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 16:38:44 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Coffin Subject: A few questions I'll be running my first TW2000 game starting in a week or so (assuming all goes well), and I had a few questions to ask of those list members who are more experienced at this than I am. Firstly: how did you guys start your game off? I envisioned the game having distinct phases: 1)Pre-2000, part of a battered (but still well-functioning) US Army, helping lead the last drive against the Commies, 2) Getting the heck out of Poland once the drive fails and the Army is shattered, 3) Escaping through the Dead Zone to a French port city to hitch a ride out of Europe, 4) Stopover in the UK, 5)Arrival on US East Coast, 6) Headin' down south for RSLS events, 7) Running Commies and Mexicans out of Texas, 8)I'm not sure- maybe "wandering the Earth"... What kinds of missions would a group of, say, 5-6 Army guys be entrusted with before the disintegration of central Army command? Would it be authentic enough to rent some WWII movies and extrapolate situations? Secondly: Has anyone seen or compiled themselves a lexicon of Armed Services "slang"- you know, the kinds of things the heroes say in the war movies. I know this probably sounds kinda stupid, but a large part of capturing the atmosphere (for me, at least) would be accurately depicting the way soldiers would communicate. Thirdly: I was thinking about putting together a phrase book so referees could have their NPCs shout things in foreign languages at their characters (you know, "Hands up!" "Drop your weapons!" "How many of you are out there?"). Is there something like this out there on the net already? If not, would anybody be interested in getting a copy from me when I'm finished? I'll be able to do French, German, Spanish, and probably Russian. Thanks, Daniel Coffin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:03:17 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: A few questions > Thirdly: I was thinking about putting together a > phrase book so referees could have their NPCs shout > things in foreign languages at their characters (you > know, "Hands up!" "Drop your weapons!" "How many of > you are out there?"). Is there something like this out > there on the net already? If not, would anybody be > interested in getting a copy from me when I'm > finished? I'll be able to do French, German, Spanish, > and probably Russian. > > Thanks, > > Daniel Coffin > Couldn't help you much. I could, incorrectly, give you some Mandarin. I say incorrectly, because I do not know the proper grammar, just have a dictionary that I could use. But, when you have a product finished, I'd like to see it, and I could (like always) put it on my site, so others can have easy access to it. As far as the game goes, I used to try and start with the Escape from Kaliesz (I know I got that wrong...) I have a couple of the European modules, but not enough. Mostly I have the US modules. From the campaign I played, we went through all the European ones. Established a little nation out of Warsaw, got kicked out by the Soviets. New characters, so we started in New York. Armies of the Night, very scary, got our butts kicked by a bunch of gangsters. So, new characters :o) and we thought to give Texas a try. Well, darnit, I was playing an African-American character (highly skilled NCO) and Dale had a Mexican-American, and didn't we just run into the Klan! Nice sequence of me running through a field, tossing willie-peters behind me. Got a few of them (and set the field on fire) before they took me out. Then they (of course) hung Dale's and my Characters, but not long enough. They thought we were dead, but we weren't (gotta love those big Negative hitpoint's thing the game provided) we came to, in the sacks they put us in and started moaning moving. Scared the heck out of the badguys. Finished Texas after that, then Airlords of the Ozarks, and that was all there was available at the time. I digressed, sorry. Anyhow, we just kind of ran through the modules. For me, I don't have the European ones except for Krakow, and I think maybe Warsaw. But I have most of the US modules, and the Last Submarine series, and the Return to Europe series. So, my intention was to just run through those. But, I've since decided to run a more, real-time, game... A peacekeeping mission, then the world may degenerate into chaos. Haven't worked that all out yet. Your basic sequence sounds about right. If you have, or could find the modules, you don't have to do the 'wander the Earth' part right after you do the US modules. Anyhow, the 'wander the earth' part can work find, as long as you plan events ahead for them. Give them some missions to work on. Maybe give them a reason to wander, a search for something. A rumor, or fable city, kind of thing. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:47:10 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Australian Info Thanks for the feedback. I noticed a number of replies questioned whether Australia was even a target. I use a lot of the history given in the 2300 AD game products as Twilight:2000 background, as the two games were pretty consistent prior to the release of v2 rules (both developed from the same simulation). My choice of targets was based on the following passage from the "Earth/Cybertech Sourcebook" by GDW: "Following the nuclear exchanges of 1997, Australia all but ceased to exist as a nation. Thirty percent of the population perished in the first strike, which also accounted for the destruction of Australia's industrial base and oil refining capacity. With its government left powerless and its economy destroyed, Australia slipped into chaos. For the next 40 years, the only cohesive force on the entire Australian continent was the Australian military. Australian troops established cantonments in New South Wales, Victoria, and the cities of Darwin and Fremantle on Australia's west coast. These forces regulated food production and distribution inside their cantonments but abandoned the regions outside." I was mainly trying to figure out if I had correctly located the major oil refineries, ports, and industrial complexes. I figured the Soviets wouldn't be too concerned about RAAF bases that far away, but instead concentrate on knocking Australia's industrial potential out. However, I like some of the RAAF/RAN targets you mentioned, particularly the B-52 sites. And I am glad to know about the harbor at Perth (or lack thereof). It sounds like Fremantle would have been the actual target. As to the Order of Battle, I imagined the 3rd Bde having disintegrated while in transit to Darwin, but the idea of it having been nuked at Katherine would serve the same purpose...I just wanted an excuse for some better-armed marauders roaming around Northern Australia. Again, thanks for the info. - -Rob Peter wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Barnes > To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com > > Date: Monday, 13 March 2000 23:30 > Subject: Australian Info > > >Hey all, > > > >I'm working up some background for an adventure set in Australia. I've > >never been to Australia, so I have a pretty limited knowledge of Since > >I know some of you either live in Australia or are familiar with the > >Aussie military, I'd be interested to hear some feedback on whether the > >following sounds remotely accurate. Have I missed anything important? > > I'm not 100% up on ICBM, but as I understand these most have MIRV (Multiple > Indepedent Reentry Vehicles), usually 4-10 depening on the missile? I'm not > sure how far apart would be a maximum. My point is possibly you'd get some > hits purely from the 'extras'. > > >AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR TARGETS: (assumes the exchange hit Australia) > >Adelaide, S.A. : Port Stanvac -- Mobil Oil refinery complex (500kt > >airburst) > > See above, perhaps the 'extras' would hit the city and airport. Perhaps RAAF > Edinburgh (air force base), but how far is this from Adelaide? > > >Melbourne, Vict. : Altona -- Mobil Oil refinery complex, port > >facilities (2x 500kt airbursts) > >Geelong, Vict.: Shell Oil refinery complex (500kt airburst) > > Fair enough, depending on how far apart MIRV can be targeted, the same > missile. Perhaps add RAAF Pearce? > > >Sydney, NSW: Kurnell -- Caltex Oil refinery complex, port facilities > >(2x 500kt airbursts) > > Add one for Fleet Base West at Garden Island in Sydney harbour, not too far > from the Opera House & bridge. Sydney is the only deep water port in the > southern hemisphere that a USN aircraft could enter with ease. > > >Perth, W.A. : Kwinana -- BP Oil refinery complex (500kt airburst), > >Perth port facilities (500kt airburst) > > No, Perth has no port facilities. Fremantle is the deep water port for > container ships. Only small draft pleasure craft can travel up the river to > Perth. Add another one for Fleet Base West. This is around 40 km south of > Fremantle/Perth. > > >Canberra, ACT: Australian military HQ, seat of government (1MT, > >airburst) > > Fair enough. > > >Wollongong, NSW: Industrial and port facilities (2x500kt airbursts) > >Newcastle, NSW: Industrial and port facilities (2x 500kt airbursts) > > Both aren't far from Sydney, perhaps same ICBMs? > > >Brisbane, Qsld: Oil refinery complex, port facilities (2x500kt > >airbursts) > > Add RAAF Darwin (Darwin airport) & RAAF Tindal (300 km south Darwin, near > Katherine). Both are B-52 capable and whomever is throwing nukes would know > this. The original 1980s plan was to base B-52s out of Darwin during a > nuclear war. They would fly up through China and attack the 'soft under > belly' of the USSR. > > >Note: this target list would result in a civilian casualty level of > >around 30%, from an already small population. > > > >AUSTRALIAN ORDER OF BATTLE (July 1st, 2000, major units only) > >1st Bde: Darwin, NT > >3rd Bde: (dispersed) vcty of Alice Springs, NT > > Alice Springs? What for? Once you are out of Darwin/Katherine area not much > support infrastructure. Perhaps the 3rd Bde was at RAAF Tindal when it was > nuked, and is currently combat ineffective (that is largely destroyed)? > > >7th Bde: vcty of Brisbane, Qsld > >11th Bde: Cairns, Qsld > >4th Bde: Vcty of Melbourne, Vict. > >5th Bde: Vcty of Sydney, NSW > >8th Bde: Vcty of Newcastle, NSW > >9th Bde: (dispersed) Vcty of Adelaide, SA with some troops as far away > >as Broken Hill, NSW > >13th Bde: Freemantle, WA (vcty of Perth) > > Thats spelt 'Fremantle', but a common mistake. For Australia after a nuclear > war with the food distribution system broken down, large populations are > only possiblenear Darwin, in the SW 'corner' of WA ( around Perth, etc) and > the eastern states (including Tasmania) & parts of SA (near Victoria & NSW). > > >I have no idea what a "typical" Australian Brigade strength would be, > >but I am estimating remaining unit strengths to be anywhere from 100 to > >1000 troops as of 2000. I also expect that there are a lot of smaller > >units wandering around the more remote areas. I figure most of the > >recovery effort will be in NSW and Victoria, with the majority of the > >continent being uncontrolled. Some of the more remote units would be > >out of communication with any higher command and would effectively be > >independent govenments. > > Figure 2-3 infantry battalions with some pure 'leg', some M113 and a few > with LAVs. Artillery is towed 105mm & 155mm. > > Peter G > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:52:23 -0800 From: "Andrew Kolb" Subject: Re: A few questions Russian from the old "Price of freedom" game Halt! Preeval! I know nothing of these things Ya neechyehvo nee znayoo ob ehtahm. Here is my internal passport Eto moyo udostovyeryeneeyeh leechnostee Yes Da No Nyet Comrade Tovarishch I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Repubican party Ya neekogdah ne bil veh Respublekonskoy Parteee My name is... Moyo eemyah... My rank is... Moy rahng... My serial number is... Moy leechniy nomehr... Thank you or please Pajaloosta Your welcome (litteraly, it is nothing) Neechevo Workers of all countries unite! Rabocheeyeh vsyekh strahn soyedeenyateys Where do I obtain my ration stamps? Kooda mnyeh noytee dostats produktoveeyeh khartogkee? How do I inlist my child in the Young Communist League? Kahk mnyeh zapeesaht moyehveh rebyonkah veh Kommooneesteechyehskooyoo Parteeyoo? Goodbye Do svidanya I have no clue as to pronunciation or if it's correct Andrew - -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Coffin To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 4:38 PM Subject: A few questions >Thirdly: I was thinking about putting together a >phrase book so referees could have their NPCs shout >things in foreign languages at their characters (you >know, "Hands up!" "Drop your weapons!" "How many of >you are out there?"). Is there something like this out >there on the net already? If not, would anybody be >interested in getting a copy from me when I'm >finished? I'll be able to do French, German, Spanish, >and probably Russian. > >Thanks, > >Daniel Coffin > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #136 *************************************