twilight2000-digest Monday, March 13 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 135 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: M240+ Topics in this list Re: Topics in this list Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: Topics in this list Re: Topics in this list Re: M240+ RE: Topics in this list Re: Topics in this list useful link Re: Red Dawn noway, but Red Star Lone Star? Re: Topics in this list Re: Terrain Comments Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: Topics in this list Re: Topics in this list M79 grenade launcher Re: M79 grenade launcher Re: Topics in this list Re: Topics in this list Australian Info Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: M79 grenade launcher Re: M240+ Re: TOEs of selected US Army units Re: Topics in this list ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:14:41 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: M240+ > I remember in v1 T2K, it said that the Tank Breaker could be fired either > way. It implied (maybe stated directly) that it was user selectable, as > though just a switch needed to be pushed (which, considering modern > computing power, even in the 80s, would seem simple enough to implement.) It was indeed implied, but not directly stated. I recall many discussions as I bought my TBM's as "top hitters" rather than direct-fire until our Ref did some hardcore digging. One day we saw specs in one of the "future weapons" magazines that were all over the place in our group, and the proposed TB was in there right alongside "shake-n-bake" bombs. There was no selector switch in there and IIRC the huge difference between them was how the guidance system chose the flight path for the missile. Essentially, the person programming it would have to pull out the guidance system and re-program it, then re-insert it. Okay, that part is not an expertise on my end. We did have a Naval ET (Electronics Technician) and an Ordnance crewman in our T2k group at the time. They broke it all down and decided that the programming could be done in the field with the proper tools and time. They made it Dif: Elc with 2 hours being necessary to complete the conversion. (For those playing Traveller versions of T2k, the task would not have any chance of exploding the missile itself- so, IIRC it is not a "dangerous" task. Hope I got that right :-) This was back in about 1986. With today's programming and the number of people operating duel operating systems on their computers (Like say using Win98 and Unix with toggles to switch between the two) I would suggest that your toggle switch could be implemented and would work out well. However, I would also suggest that the TBMs released (if you allow them) would not come with this already implemented. > As far as the Hellfire issue, they are laser guided, and I believe need a > remote designator, either from the firing craft, or a forward observer. > Basically, the guidance wasn't carried by the missile itself. That, and I > believe Hellfires would be almost two heavy to be lugged around by a person. > I know they can be lifted and moved, but not sure they can be "packed" on > the back while in the field. > Yes, I just looked up in one of Combat Helicopter book, and the Hellfire is > 99 Lb.s (45 Kg) A bit heavy to be carried in the field, and any > modifications to bring it's weight down would be so severe as to probably > just make designing a new missile a much easier and cheaper option. Guess > it takes at least two crew to load a missile on the 'copters. Yeah, one of the biggest differences between the two systems was the fact that TBMs are self-guiding (IE. Fire and forget) while the Hellfire requires a designator. On that note though, I believe (somebody please correct me or fill in the details as necessary) that there is version of the hellfire that uses an integral IR system to track its target. I agree with you that stripping a hellfire down to create the TB would probably be more difficult than designing a new missile- however, I am not entirely sure that the military would go with one option over the other either. Things about $400 hammers, and mechanics throwing away 10 cent tools causing billion dollar helicopter crashes keep coming to my mind- but those are topics for different discussions probably :-) Just out of curiosity, when you run into things in your T2k campaigns- like Hummers being different in reality than they are in the US Army vehicle guide, or TBMs being in the game when they were cancelled IRL- what do you do? Do you guys update the statistics, drop the things, or make your T2k game an "alternate" reality? Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:12:24 +0200 From: Pietu Subject: Topics in this list Topics in this list are so non-relative for tw2000 rolegame that it wont serve anything for me. I am out of here now. Bye and thanks Pietu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:25:05 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Topics in this list Actually you get out of this group what you put in. Everything has it's place here. I could find a use for about 90% of the information posted on this group. (I found the bits about field manuals most informative) BTW On the subject of field manuals I found a web site contaning all the major Field Manuals used. BTW it includes the restricted ones, however you have to be a member of the US Armed forces (I think) to use the restricted ones. Here you go Field Manuals< /A> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:35:23 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units > It's above battalion level where organizations get fluid (at least in > modern NATO doctrine--earlier, for most countries, it was even higher, with > the U.S. for instance not having much flexibility except above divisional > level). However, NATO units are trained to operate ad hoc units even down > to company level, I think, which makes even those level flexible (hence, > the book was called "Team Yankee" rather than "Charlie Company" or whatnot, > since it was a combined-arms teams). > > Scott Orr Is Battalion the next level up after Company? I can't remember, but it did seem to me that the list I saw had everything above Company level being "Typically 3 Companies..." or "Typically 3 Brigades..." where a Company was just flat 3 platoons. If I recall Team Yankee correctly (it's been many years since I've last read it,) it said a Team could be any size organization, just that it was a specially put together unit to accomplish some mission. The mission could be broad enough, that you could have a Team operating in normal maneuvers like a Company. And as I recall, Team Yankee was still basically the size of a Company, just that they had traded one of their tank platoons for an Mech. Infantry platoon. And they had the forward observer vehicle attached. When you think of it, because of attachments, or mission specific equipment load-outs, any level in the US Army is flexible, even the squad. But, anyhow, you basically confirmed my understanding. Thanks, Scott. Heh, Charlie Company just doesn't have the same ring to it as Team Yankee. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 07:57:23 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Topics in this list >Topics in this list are so non-relative for tw2000 rolegame that it wont >serve anything for me. >I am out of here now. >Bye and thanks >Pietu We DO tend to drift off-topic easily, but always seem to come back. As the topics of now are night vision gear, unit organisation and some others I'd say we haven't been this on-topic for months! Remember Pietu (if you're still here), it's very easy to start a new topic here because we're all so opinionated! Just mention something about it and we'll all put .02 of our various national currencies in. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:32:08 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Topics in this list Actually when you mentioned that bit about .02 of you national currency. It got me thinking (Ok, we're going to slip off the subject, but hey a change is as good as a rest) why is it always .02 of the national currency: In Britain - Tuppence worth (or two pence worth) In America (and others) - 2 cents worth? Why not .01, .10,1 or whatever?? Does anyone know? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 15:30:26 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: M240+ > Yeah, one of the biggest differences between the two systems was >the fact that TBMs are self-guiding (IE. Fire and forget) while the Hellfire >requires a designator. > On that note though, I believe (somebody please correct me or fill in >the >details as necessary) that there is version of the hellfire that uses an >integral IR system to track its target. Had asked about this on a Harpoon listserv after I had seen mention of it in a copy of Jane's or something. I guess there was supposed to be an AGM-114D that used an imaging infrared seeker. I think the project was mainly being pursued by the USN for use as a lightweight anti-shipping missile against fast attack patrol craft. The system never made it into production for some reason I've never been able to find. Seems a little odd since an IIR homing Hellifire would be pretty useful for the USN and the US Army, but then again not everything the US military and government does makes a lot of sense. Regards, JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:46:21 -0600 From: "Walter" Subject: RE: Topics in this list > I'd say we haven't been this on-topic for months! > > Jim Maybe thats his point. A while back there was a narative of their game that someone posted in response to a request of mine about sharing scenarios. To me that was one of the most helpful posts, as it showed the flow and direction that a particular game was going. Maybe he wanted more direct info on game stuff like that, not just military talk in general. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:34:54 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Topics in this list I'd second that. There are all sorts of useful items to be found in the posts here, but I often find myself wading through a lot of off-topic discussions to find the useful stuff. There is a tendency on this list for two people to argue back and forth over some off-topic item (like the thing about extraditing the alleged war-criminal and the fine points of Australian law...or what actually goes into a McDonald's hamburger...). The discussions about military technology are on-topic up to a point. However, reading all the posts over whether the Japanese or American naval attack planes had better radar made me want to ask "who really cares?" I couldn't think of ANY use for that info in a Twilight or Merc setting. Not that there might not be, mind you, but no one was making any effort to keep it related to the topic of the list. Another example was the question someone asked about starting a game based on the movie "Red Dawn". While that is on-topic, it quickly became a debate about the definition of "guerilla", which drifted pretty far away from the original question. I really enjoy this list, but I also think we could ALL do a better job of keeping on topic. - -Rob Walter wrote: > > I'd say we haven't been this on-topic for months! > > > > Jim > > Maybe thats his point. > > A while back there was a narative of their game that someone posted in > response to a request of mine about sharing scenarios. To me that was one > of the most helpful posts, as it showed the flow and direction that a > particular game was going. Maybe he wanted more direct info on game stuff > like that, not just military talk in general. > > Walter > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:49:28 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: useful link Something that may be useful to those of you running games in the United States: http://terraserver.com/ If you look up an aerial photo on this site, you can switch to the USGS topographical map matching that area and zoom in to a level showing individual buildings. (For a good example, try Houston, Texas). You have to zoom in several times to get to that level of detail, but it is pretty handy. I used it to print out some good maps of the area of northern Arkansas described in "Airlords of the Ozarks" and also the area covered in "Allegheny Uprising". Not every place in the US is covered, but there's quite a bit there, nonetheless. Even if you aren't running games in the US, you could get a good idea of comparative terrain for other parts of the world. Also, if you want some interesting food for thought for possible Merc:2000 or alternate Twilight history, check out: http://www.stratfor.com/ - -Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 20:01:48 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Red Dawn noway, but Red Star Lone Star? GRAEBARDE wrote: (snip) > I realize the bombs are falling, and the third Battle of > the Atlantic is raging and such, but would/could intell > sources fail to see what was going on, given the scale of > preperation needed? What did I miss [or forget]? > > By the book 49th Armored Div [TX ANG] was still in Texas. > By the time of the invasion it would not be operating out > of armories, but full mobilized at Hood. There were other > Army units in the 5th Army Area, both regulars and > reserves. Everyone seemed to get caught with thier pants > down and got clobbered by a Soviet brigade and the Mexican > army??. Actually, according to the unit history section of the ACVH, the 49th was not in Texas at the time of the invasion. The Mexican invasion was met only by the dispersed elements of the 46th Infantry Division (the 29th Inf Div in my campaign) and the 98th Infantry Division (the 95th in my campaign) and some small national guard formations. The bombs had already fallen on both the US and Mexico, and most of the units in the US were preoccupied with maintaining order and doing disaster relief duty. The Mexicans had a good head start into Texas before they encountered any serious resistance. Same with the invasion of California. Also, while I don't think there is any real-world parallel, the Soviet Brigade you mentioned was supposedly a division sized unit ("Division Cuba"). - -Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:21:49 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: Topics in this list i think alot of what is posted is usually on topic, okay maybe not mac'donalds burgers. while the list does go beserk at times it is also a great resource. there have been quite alot of good links to peoples pages and equipment. whenever i have had a question related to the game i always got good responses. when i needed stats on the scorpion tank someone posted it as well as info on several different variations that i didn't know excisted, same as info on the tiger tank and how to intergrate it into a t2k game. there are tons of posts that i have no interest in, yet someone may. in my t2k group i had half that wanted it hyper accurate, so the posts on f-16 radars would have been of immense interest to them. the other half of my group thinks it is just a game and don't care. by it's nature t2k will attract both types of players, this list reflects this. for me i love to read peoples modual ideas and what they are doing in their games. there are times when i have no idea at all on what to do so those post have been useful in the past. yes the list wanders off topic, but one thing i found out from manging a couple of lists in the past was that sometimes those that complained the most had never posted. sometimes their first post was the one to say they were leaving. that is not always the case. another complaint i saw was that the same people post, but the person who made the statement had never posted before that one. if there is something t2k that someone wants to know then ask it. t2k can be used in nearly any military conflicts. mine center around modern ones and not after the bomb, others do after the bomb and that is the strength of the game. it is incredibly versitile and many pages of related info i am sure are out there that we don't know about. new equipment stats, new mod ideas, campaigns and everything in between. aaron > A while back there was a narative of their game that someone posted in > response to a request of mine about sharing scenarios. To me that was one > of the most helpful posts, as it showed the flow and direction that a > particular game was going. Maybe he wanted more direct info on game stuff > like that, not just military talk in general. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 21:02:38 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: Terrain Comments Walter Rebsch wrote: > > > Just remember that typical NVG's (US ones anyway) are much more of a light > intensifier than an IR device, even if they say they are IR. Maybe they > have better ones out now, but back in 88-92 they were pretty limited in > application. They were best for driving at night without any lights on. > I have a question for you, If my group of PC's are approaching an enemy encampment with night vision goggles, what is the best defense from keeping the PC's from having an advantage. Someone mentioned to me that the enemy could rig flashlights around the position to cancel the IR. Another thing that was mentioned to me was to rig camera flashes to trip wires (The were out of flares), this was to shutdown the IR goggles for 10 minutes or so. I do not trust this source, and I would rather have a better opinion if the above would work. Thanks Much; Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 23:32:05 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units At 11:35 AM 3/12/00 -0800, Corey Wells wrote: > >Is Battalion the next level up after Company? Yes. >I can't remember, but it did >seem to me that the list I saw had everything above Company level being >"Typically 3 Companies..." or "Typically 3 Brigades..." It varies by country, era, and unit type--but a battalion's organization is always fixed. >where a Company was just flat 3 platoons. No, different countries and different unit types may have different numbers of platoons--it's usually three or four, though--but it can be as many as eight or so. >If I recall Team Yankee correctly (it's been many >years since I've last read it,) it said a Team could be any size >organization, just that it was a specially put together unit to accomplish >some mission. The mission could be broad enough, that you could have a >Team operating in normal maneuvers like a Company. And as I recall, Team >Yankee was still basically the size of a Company, just that they had traded >one of their tank platoons for an Mech. Infantry platoon. And they had the >forward observer vehicle attached. When you think of it, because of >attachments, or mission specific equipment load-outs, any level in the US >Army is flexible, even the squad. I think in the U.S. Army a "team" refers to a company-sized unit that's been assembled through attachments; a battalion-sized unit like that is a "task force". There's a doctrine of swapping platoons between companies to form teams and copmanies between battalions to form task forces--so it's not just a matter of attaching extra stuff, it's mixing and matching; I'm not sure how much they do the mixing and matching (and not just attaching extra stuff) below company level. Scott Orr > >But, anyhow, you basically confirmed my understanding. Thanks, Scott. Heh, >Charlie Company just doesn't have the same ring to it as Team Yankee. > >Cor > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 00:32:41 EST From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: Topics in this list I'm sorry I ever mentioned "Red Dawn". All I posted was a rhetorical statement to a subject I thought was interesting. I made the dreaded mistake of giving my opinion, "I think Red Dawn was one of the best WWIII movies ever made." This sparked an asinine debate over its believability. People, lighten up! It was only a movie! And, if someone wants to base their game on it, so what? Since I've joined this list I have gotten a lot of useful info I needed for my game, but only after weeding through a ton of nonsense. This idiotic bickering is killing its usefulness. I appreciate the insight of the members who served, or are serving, in the military, but take it easy! Some of us weren't, and we don't appreciate being bullied by your opinion. I think we all need to remember that we're all here to discuss a game... A GAME! We all play this game to have FUN. We gather here to exchange concepts and answer questions. But, do we really care what color underwear a U.S. Navy SEAL wears? Does knowing this add anything to the game? Does it require 200 responses? There is such a thing as 'overkill', and this list has gone far beyond that! Can we all just get along and stick to the game? - -Billy Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:03:07 EST From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: Topics in this list In a message dated 03/12/2000 5:31:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, robwbarnes@worldnet.att.net writes: << I'd second that. There are all sorts of useful items to be found in the posts here, but I often find myself wading through a lot of off-topic discussions to find the useful stuff. There is a tendency on this list for two people to argue back and forth over some off-topic item (other stuff snipped)>> I agree with the other posters who are complaining about off-topic stuff. While I would rather this list be used than go weeks and weeks without anything, I end up deleting mail because people are just going back and forth about something. I know lately I have been one of the guilty parties, so sorry to the complainers for that. Some people feel the need to debate every point made on this list. I know for a fact that its driving people OFF this list. Do you all remember Loonz? He got feed up with all the back and forth crap so he unsubscribed. Some of you may say "big deal", well I thought he contributed a lot, especially since he was in the Navy in the real world. Anyways, this is what I think. We, as a group need to step up and steer the posters back on topic when it happens. I'm a member of the Command Decision list, and when it gets off subject other members speak up and tell people to get back on topic. Also, we need to stop taking posts so seriously. Someone else said, it's a game, and I agree. If you really really feel the need to debate something with someone take it to private email. Either that or "forget" about responding on list. I do that all the time. I don't need to prove my manhood through email. If I really wanted to fight someone, I'd do it in real life, it's a lot more fun that way. well, these are just some suggestions. Most of you will probably read this and forget about it 2 seconds later. But it was worth a shot. Orrin - -proud t2k mailing list member since 96 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:31:01 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: M79 grenade launcher Does the M79 grenade launcher hav a safety catch? (Please say yes) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:41:23 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: M79 grenade launcher how do you gm's handle safty's do you assume players with military trainings automaticly switch them off, or if the player doesn't say it he doesn't do it? aaron > Does the M79 grenade launcher hav a safety catch? > (Please say yes) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 05:33:48 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Topics in this list Actually on the topic of useless pieces of information. No bit of information is useless if you know HOW to use it. To take your example of the Navy Seals Underwear (let say it's blue) You could easily assimilate that piece of "useless" information into a plotline for a adventure. (The following is part my own invention, and part comes from the Palladium Recon game.) A Navy Seal commander was in transport somewhere, when his transport (be it helicopter, APC or whatever) was ambushed and destroyed. The players are sent to investigate the scene of the accident when they discover the body of the crew of the APC, and the body of the General. On closer inspection of the body, the players discover that the Navy Seal commander ISN'T wearing standard issue Navy Seal Underwear but is in fact wearing Army issue. On closer inspection of the scene they discover tracks leading away from the site. The General must have been captured and they have to get him back!! There you go instant plotline from a bit of "useless" information. Just remember all information has its uses. "Knowledge is Power" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:59:04 +0200 From: "Pasi Parviainen" Subject: Re: Topics in this list I have to agree with Pietu. So... get on topic! I have been in three different Traveller maillist and had to dump them all when them got too noisy I'm really afraid that this list has come also useless... That's when I have to delete 18 to 19 messages of 20 of being irrelevant for GAME. Over and out... PS. You should have Finnish discipline to send only relevant questions and most importantly, to only answer with relevant info. (read it seriously, but don't get pissed :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 06:35:36 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Australian Info Hey all, I'm working up some background for an adventure set in Australia. I've never been to Australia, so I have a pretty limited knowledge of Since I know some of you either live in Australia or are familiar with the Aussie military, I'd be interested to hear some feedback on whether the following sounds remotely accurate. Have I missed anything important? AUSTRALIAN NUCLEAR TARGETS: (assumes the exchange hit Australia) Adelaide, S.A. : Port Stanvac -- Mobil Oil refinery complex (500kt airburst) Melbourne, Vict. : Altona -- Mobil Oil refinery complex, port facilities (2x 500kt airbursts) Geelong, Vict.: Shell Oil refinery complex (500kt airburst) Sydney, NSW: Kurnell -- Caltex Oil refinery complex, port facilities (2x 500kt airbursts) Perth, W.A. : Kwinana -- BP Oil refinery complex (500kt airburst), Perth port facilities (500kt airburst) Canberra, ACT: Australian military HQ, seat of government (1MT, airburst) Wollongong, NSW: Industrial and port facilities (2x500kt airbursts) Newcastle, NSW: Industrial and port facilities (2x 500kt airbursts) Brisbane, Qsld: Oil refinery complex, port facilities (2x500kt airbursts) Note: this target list would result in a civilian casualty level of around 30%, from an already small population. AUSTRALIAN ORDER OF BATTLE (July 1st, 2000, major units only) 1st Bde: Darwin, NT 3rd Bde: (dispersed) vcty of Alice Springs, NT 7th Bde: vcty of Brisbane, Qsld 11th Bde: Cairns, Qsld 4th Bde: Vcty of Melbourne, Vict. 5th Bde: Vcty of Sydney, NSW 8th Bde: Vcty of Newcastle, NSW 9th Bde: (dispersed) Vcty of Adelaide, SA with some troops as far away as Broken Hill, NSW 13th Bde: Freemantle, WA (vcty of Perth) I have no idea what a "typical" Australian Brigade strength would be, but I am estimating remaining unit strengths to be anywhere from 100 to 1000 troops as of 2000. I also expect that there are a lot of smaller units wandering around the more remote areas. I figure most of the recovery effort will be in NSW and Victoria, with the majority of the continent being uncontrolled. Some of the more remote units would be out of communication with any higher command and would effectively be independent govenments. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 05:36:21 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units The mixing-matching of companies between battalions to form task forces is directed by higher command, usually brigade, but sometimes division directive. It use to be very common in heavy divisions, with the same units being cross attached to give some "unit cohesion". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 05:45:28 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: M79 grenade launcher re safety catch on M79: not a very good one as I recall. I think it was a thumb slide type, but it's been 20 years since I got to paly with one. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:08:22 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: M240+ > Had asked about this on a Harpoon listserv after I had seen mention of it > in a copy of Jane's or something. I guess there was supposed to be an > AGM-114D that used an imaging infrared seeker. I think the project was > mainly being pursued by the USN for use as a lightweight anti-shipping > missile > against fast attack patrol craft. The system never made it into production > for > some reason I've never been able to find. Seems a little odd since an IIR > homing > Hellifire would be pretty useful for the USN and the US Army, but then again > not everything the US military and government does makes a lot of sense. > Regards, > JC Hey JC, Thanks for the designation- maybe I will be able to find more information about it now :-) Another one of my infamous questions now... Can someone give me a list as well as strengths/weaknesses of the various guidance systems used on missiles/rockets/aircraft and ships? I could really use help in the Radar/Sonar departments, but I doubt that I am aware of all the targetting methods as well. Thanks. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:15:09 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: TOEs of selected US Army units >From: "Corey Wells" > > > Here are some TOEs taken from Steel Panther III, for US forces in 1995. > > While they aren't necessarily realistic, they may be of help to some >GMs: > > > >SNIP! > >Thanks Brandon. I'll probably rework those into a text file and post them >on my site. One thing I've understood, was that organizations above the >Company level were fluid, in that they could be of varying size depending >on >the mission and forces available. Though, with a computer game, certain >things need to be static, and not variables. And also there is a general >"number" for the organizations, which is what I think they used for SP 3. > >Anyhow, that'll be a lot of help. Thanks. I also can post selected Russian and (West) German units, if there is interest. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 08:15:25 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: Topics in this list Just a quick thought here, I think he meant that there was not enough information for him as far as actual role- playing material. I also noted that the original poster had not put anything into the list prior to that. He had not asked for any info and had not given any either. It is a bit difficult to read a lurker's mind and determine what he wants to see/discuss or hear about on the list. I am not faulting lurkers, just saying that if you're lurking and not getting anything useful out of the list- try contributing some of your own thoughts. Who knows? You might actually have some fun, or come up with stuff that nobody else had really considered posting to the list. I have to agree that some of the posts have gone really off-topic, and I am as guilty as the next guy. I also have to say that one of the things that keeps me on this list is the casual approach made to the game by those who are posting. Just some of my thoughts on it. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #135 *************************************