twilight2000-digest Monday, March 6 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 121 The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: Some more questions Re: new timeline Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Geneva Convention Part 1/4 Re: Alternate setting (Long) Re: Some more questions Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) RE: Some more questions RE: vehicle conversions RE: vehicle conversions Re: new timeline Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Geneva Convention Part 1/4 Re: Some more questions Re: Some more questions Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) RE: Game settings (Red Dawn) RE: vehicle conversions (rant) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 07:28:16 -0600 From: "Billy Ingram" Subject: RE: Some more questions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF873D.8A037360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know what kind of weapons Mexican soldiers use offhand, but I'd be willing to do some research. Let me get back to you. I give government agents the same money as military characters, as well as the same gear choices. If the M-113 were sitting still and idling, I'd give the character an Average: Observation chance of hearing the plane. If it were moving, try Formidable: Observation. I'd say that the chances of anyone building a primitive cluster bomb would be Formidable: Warhead or Impossible: Combat Engineer. Fuzing would be the most difficult part. -----Original Message----- From: owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com [mailto:owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Kolb Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 1:54 AM To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Some more questions What weapon would be best for Mexican soldiers? How much starting money does a government agent get? If you were riding in a moving M113 APC would you be able to hear a small single engine plane fly over at about 2000 feet? (Husky/Super Cub) Would a Canadian commando know how to make a primitive anti-personal cluster bomb, that could be pushed out of the above mentioned plane? - ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF873D.8A037360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I = don't know what=20 kind of weapons Mexican soldiers use offhand, but I'd be willing to do = some=20 research. Let me get back to you.

I give = government=20 agents the same money as military characters, as well = as

the = same gear=20 choices.

If the = M-113 were=20 sitting still and idling, I'd give the character an Average: = Observation=20 chance of hearing the plane. If it were moving, try = Formidable: =20 Observation.

I'd = say that the=20 chances of anyone building a primitive cluster bomb would be Formidable: = Warhead=20 or Impossible: Combat Engineer. Fuzing would be the most = difficult=20 part.

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com=20 [mailto:owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of = Andrew=20 Kolb
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 1:54 AM
To:=20 twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Some more=20 questions

What weapon would be best for Mexican soldiers?

How much starting money does a government agent get?

If you were riding in a moving M113 APC would you be able to hear a = small=20 single engine plane fly over at about 2000 feet? (Husky/Super Cub)

Would a Canadian commando know how to make a primitive = anti-personal=20 cluster bomb, that could be pushed out of the above mentioned=20 plane?

- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BF873D.8A037360-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 01:44:53 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: new timeline >It might be interesting if the list ran some sort of simulation of a >current day ww3-- using harpoon for naval and air battles and something >else for land. People on the list could roleplay the leaders of >countries. A sort of updated Axis and Allies but with something better >than two d6 for combat resolution. Then again this could take too long. >What do you all think? > I have been part of a few PBEM's from the Harpoon listserv, last one I was involved in was about a two years back, we used Harpoon 1 to simulate most of the air and naval aspects and used TacOps for the ground portion. It wasn't a large scale battle, it was taken from one of the what if stories, in the back of one the Tom Clancy books, the one about Brunei being invaded by Malaysia (I think it's the Marine book?) It was pretty involved, but it was fun. We had people standing in as various US/Allied Commanders and others as the Brunei political and military officials and a group of lurkers who were used to simulate international opinion and the UN. It has more of a political and role playing dimension than just exchanging saved games every turn. The guy running it used to post jpegs of sattelite footage and released news reports every few days or so. Pretty fun stuff, but it was a big time drain for everyone especially the poor guy running it. My suggestion if the list runs something like this is have more than one referee/GM whatever so it isn't on the shoulders of just one guy. Regards, JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:29:11 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > I've heard that Grunt is the deragatory name for infantry because that's > the sound they make when a bullet hits them. I've always considered it in > particularly bad tatse though. Yes well I think it has become a term that people use to try and insult the average intelligence of the infantry soldier...ie they think we're a stupid lot. However every infantry soldier knows that the rest of the armed forces are just there to support them :) Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:30:49 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Geneva Convention Part 1/4 Jim, If you do a search on that web site for Geneva convention you will also come across the treaties dealing with the use of mines and such. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:44:53 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Alternate setting (Long) Ok well I think your best source of bots may come from areas such as gurps/cyberpunk/rifts you could then try conversions from these and see how you go. As for ideas, try thinking a little laterally also. Perhaps one corp has developed some new technology that may get it a large government grant to develop the tech to destroy bots. Regardless of the time period, corps are usually still in things for the $$. Or on another take, you have a corp turned bad or assimilated by the AI T's. Sort of like the Borg or even like Burke from Aliens. Let the players make the story.....You can run the major plotline which could be the search and destroy mission of a T base. Then let the trauma's of everyday life take control. For example one of the characters develops a relationship....the other half is kidnapped, killed etc by the bots...... Or an infiltration into the group via a starting major NPC that they think they have gotten to know really well. Nothing like a hint of paranoia to keep things on edge. If as you say they are really good roleplayers then this should be real fun. You even get to add in the environmental factors previously discussed on the group. Like an attack on a base in Antartica. Combined Ops with another corp, where the group not only needs to kill the bots, but also ensure the other corp doesn't gain any advantage from the information that you capture. I hope they get the creative juices flowing. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:51:41 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Some more questions > What weapon would be best for Mexican soldiers? Anything that you would deem appropriate or even attainable really. AK's and possibly the M16's....I'd say more so the AK's as they tend to be the budget weapon of choice. > If you were riding in a moving M113 APC would you be able to > hear a small single engine plane fly over at about 2000 feet? > (Husky/Super Cub) Well lets see, I'd say no hope in hell......Having worked with the APC's and also being a flight instructor, I'd give the player a near impossible task to hear it....However you may get away with just a Difficult/Formidable observation if you have your head stuck out of the turret. > Would a Canadian commando know how to make a primitive > anti-personal cluster bomb, that could be pushed out of the > above mentioned plane? Yep it's called a hand grenade....If it goes of slightly early you get airburst, which is all the better as you get a better fragmentation spread. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 08:34:13 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) re: grunt Ballistix said it all :):):) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 08:34:20 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) re: grunt Ballistix said it all :):):) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:41:46 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Some more questions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF8758.91CF0A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Depends on your scenario. If the Mexicans are backed by the Soviets then probably AK's, if they are still US allies, then probably M16's. Either way it'll probably end up being a little mixed after 5 years of war anyway. I don't know anything about the second question. Tracked vehicles are loud! If you're in an armored vehicle (I mean all the way in, not hanging out a hatch) and the hatch is open you probably couldn't hear anything short gunfire that is very close. If the hatch is closed, then forget it until the vehicle is actually hit by something or a shell hits close by. If your sitting halfway out the commanders hatch, you might hear the plane if it was lower or was espically loud. 2000 feet of altitude is pretty high to hear a small single engine plane when your right ontop of a tracked vehicle. If its just idling maybe, but if it's running the roar of the exhaust and the rumble of the tracks is pretty loud. When we were in the woods playing war games in the Army, you could almost always hear a tank or tracked vehicle before you could see it. There's almost no chance it could sneak up on you unless your ears are ringing from being in a firefight. Anyone can stick a hand grendage in small glass jar, pull the pin and drop it out of a plane. But maybe you meant something else? Assuming the commando in question already has explosives to use, the only trick is making an impact fuse. Getting it to fall with the fuse pointing down isn't hard, just attach a tiny parachute or streamer to the opposite side. Most anti-personnel land mines have light pressure fuses. They are even shipped disconnected from the main charge in many cases, so you could scrounge one of those probably rather easily in military environments. Making one probably wouldn't be any harder than making explosives (if you had enough skill and stuff to create explosives). Also, there are many civilians with experience in dropping 'bombs'. A friend of mine who is a pilot used to compete in aerial package delivery contests. They put a big bullseye on the ground in a field and the pilots fly their little Cesnas and Pipers over and drop a little 'package' on it. They get scored on who gets closest. I don't remember the actual stats of how big the targets are and how close they could get though. If you want me to find out, I can always email him and ask. That way you could guage the actual difficulty of it from someone with first hand experience of WWI-like bombing skills. Also, a dropped grenade would fall about 122m (~400 feet) during the 5 seconds of fuse for those pilots who lack glass jars. And don't anti-tank grenades have pressure fuses? Walter -----Original Message----- From: owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com [mailto:owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Kolb Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 1:54 AM To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Some more questions What weapon would be best for Mexican soldiers? How much starting money does a government agent get? If you were riding in a moving M113 APC would you be able to hear a small single engine plane fly over at about 2000 feet? (Husky/Super Cub) Would a Canadian commando know how to make a primitive anti-personal cluster bomb, that could be pushed out of the above mentioned plane? - ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF8758.91CF0A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Depends on your scenario. If the = Mexicans are=20 backed by the Soviets then probably AK's, if they are still US allies, = then=20 probably M16's. Either way it'll probably end up being a little = mixed=20 after 5 years of war anyway.

I=20 don't know anything about the second question.

Tracked vehicles are loud! If you're in = an=20 armored vehicle (I mean all the way in, not hanging out a hatch) and the = hatch=20 is open you probably couldn't hear anything short gunfire that is very=20 close. If the hatch is closed, then forget it until the vehicle is = actually hit by something or a shell hits close by. If your = sitting=20 halfway out the commanders hatch, you might hear the plane if it was = lower or=20 was espically loud. 2000 feet of altitude is pretty high to hear a = small=20 single engine plane when your right ontop of a tracked vehicle. If = its=20 just idling maybe, but if it's running the roar of the exhaust and the = rumble of=20 the tracks is pretty loud. When we were in the woods playing war = games in=20 the Army, you could almost always hear a tank or tracked vehicle before = you=20 could see it. There's almost no chance it could sneak up on you = unless=20 your ears are ringing from being in a firefight.

Anyone=20 can stick a hand grendage in small glass jar, pull the pin and drop it = out of a=20 plane. But maybe you meant something else? Assuming the = commando in=20 question already has explosives to use, the only trick is making an = impact=20 fuse. Getting it to fall with the fuse pointing down isn't hard, = just=20 attach a tiny parachute or streamer to the opposite side. Most=20 anti-personnel land mines have light pressure fuses. They are even = shipped=20 disconnected from the main charge in many cases, so you could scrounge = one of=20 those probably rather easily in military environments. Making one = probably=20 wouldn't be any harder than making explosives (if you had enough skill = and stuff=20 to create explosives).

Also,=20 there are many civilians with experience in dropping 'bombs'. A = friend of=20 mine who is a pilot used to compete in aerial package delivery = contests. =20 They put a big bullseye on the ground in a field and the pilots fly = their little=20 Cesnas and Pipers over and drop a little 'package' on it. They get = scored=20 on who gets closest. I don't remember the actual stats of how big = the=20 targets are and how close they could get though. If you want me to = find=20 out, I can always email him and ask. That way you could = guage=20 the actual difficulty of it from someone with first hand experience of = WWI-like=20 bombing skills.

Also,=20 a dropped grenade would fall about 122m (~400 feet) during the 5 seconds = of fuse=20 for those pilots who lack glass jars. And don't anti-tank grenades = have=20 pressure fuses?

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com=20 [mailto:owner-twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of = Andrew=20 Kolb
Sent: Monday, March 06, 2000 1:54 AM
To:=20 twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Some more=20 questions

What weapon would be best for Mexican soldiers?

How much starting money does a government agent get?

If you were riding in a moving M113 APC would you be able to hear a = small=20 single engine plane fly over at about 2000 feet? (Husky/Super Cub)

Would a Canadian commando know how to make a primitive = anti-personal=20 cluster bomb, that could be pushed out of the above mentioned=20 plane?

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BF8758.91CF0A80-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 09:01:31 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions Just out of curiosity, how do the determine the toughness of this material. Any idea? Could you rephrase that? Coz I'm a Norwegian and I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that question. Was it; how do you apply these numbers to work with vehicles; how were they calculated; or something else? First off I want to apologize for not snipping the e-mails. I didn't know it caused a problem. Second, I hope I did that right. I was wondering what method they used to determine the toughness value. For instance they list fiberglass as having a toughness of .25 and a mass of 1 (Mass = tonnes (1000 kg's) per cubic meter of material.) The mass makes sense but I wanted to know if their is a formula for determining the toughness. Maybe something that could be used from the Strengths of Materials classes etc. Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 11:26:12 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions > I was wondering what method they used to determine the toughness value. > For instance they list > > fiberglass as having a toughness of .25 and a mass of 1 (Mass = tonnes > (1000 kg's) per cubic meter of material.) My guess (I don't know, I'm guessing) is that they decide aribitrarily what a typical armor value should be, then back-calculate to find the toughness that gives them the number they picked. Thus if a 1" plate of fiberglass is supposed to give a certain armor (say 5), then plug that (5) into the formula they give to compute armor value from toughness and solve for toughness and then round it to something reasonable. They would probably just pick a number for armor value to use based on a good guess and what seems to fit reasonably into the game. That list of materials from the Traveller game is only meant to make the stuff from 'Fire Fusion & Steel' fit properly into that game. I wouldn't worry too much about making it 'correct' since it is fitting into an aribtrary and fictional system anyway. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 10:11:45 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: new timeline JC wrote: > >It might be interesting if the list ran some sort of simulation of a > >current day ww3-- using harpoon for naval and air battles and something > >else for land. People on the list could roleplay the leaders of > >countries. A sort of updated Axis and Allies but with something better > >than two d6 for combat resolution. Then again this could take too long. > >What do you all think? > > > I have been part of a few PBEM's from the Harpoon listserv, last one I was > involved in was about a two years back, we used Harpoon 1 to simulate > most of the air and naval aspects and used TacOps for the ground portion. > It wasn't a large scale battle, it was taken from one of the what if > stories, > in the back of one the Tom Clancy books, the one about Brunei being > invaded by Malaysia (I think it's the Marine book?) It was pretty involved, > but it was fun. We had people standing in as various US/Allied Commanders > and others as the Brunei political and military officials and a group of > lurkers > who were used to simulate international opinion and the UN. It has more of > a > political and role playing dimension than just exchanging saved games every > turn. The guy running it used to post jpegs of sattelite footage and > released > news reports every few days or so. Pretty fun stuff, but it was a big time > drain > for everyone especially the poor guy running it. My suggestion if the list > runs > something like this is have more than one referee/GM whatever so it isn't on > the shoulders of just one guy. > > Regards, > > JC Well I would be willing to run such a thing but Ill have to think about how it would be done. I'll also have to wait until my finals are over in two weeks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:27:39 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) >> I've heard that Grunt is the deragatory name for infantry because >that's >> the sound they make when a bullet hits them. I've always considered it in >> particularly bad tatse though. > >Yes well I think it has become a term that people use to try and insult the >average intelligence of the infantry soldier...ie they think we're a stupid >lot. > >However every infantry soldier knows that the rest of the armed forces >are just there to support them :) > >Ballistix Talk about right on the nail! In my PbEM nearly all the players are Riflemen and Privates to boot. I like to emphasise that these guys are far better than elite soldiers, they do the unglamourous jobs and win wars without being grenade-in-the-teeth Rambos. It takes a lot of quiet courage to follow a young officer into the artillery where the tombstones grow. They also have a huge society, T2K assumes everyone is a top sergeant or LTC but in reality the army is 90% Privates. They have a social structure that NCOs and officers have trouble penetrating, I allow a certain amount of passive help along these social lines. In my game there is an unspoken code that the lower enlisted never involve the other ranks in their troubles, they work it out themselves without involving those authority figures. So for your next game, start 80% of your players as Privates! Still give them the rank advancement points but ignore the actual rank, put it down to on-the-job-training. Get rid of any PC rank of higher than Captain, it's ludicrous and that goes for parties consisting entirely of Staff Sergeants too! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:29:05 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Geneva Convention Part 1/4 >Jim, > >If you do a search on that web site for Geneva convention >you will also come across the treaties dealing with the use >of mines and such. > >Ballistix yep, you also find a lot of stuff that involves the rights of civilians regarding forced labour/slavery. I'm sure the other guys are about ready to throttle my PC by now. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 07:35:00 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Some more questions >Also, a dropped grenade would fall about 122m (~400 feet) during the 5 >seconds of fuse for those pilots who lack glass jars. And don't anti-tank >grenades have pressure fuses? > >Walter The soviet RKG-3(M) stick grenade is ideal here and is an assured M113 killer in that scenario. It has a little drogue streamer that you yank on before deploying and a nasty shaped charge head that'll spear through the thin top armour. A player in my PbEM is a captain in one of the scandinavian armies, he sent me a detailed offlist post on the way he'd put together a claymore and fuse it (no, I won't post it) so I think he'd have no problems making a cluster bomb. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 14:59:01 -0800 From: "Andrew Kolb" Subject: Re: Some more questions This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF877C.820C4580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That would be wonderful. I was trying to figure out how to determan the = diffaclty of hitting the target. I've only found three people to play = (one is a 12 yo G her brother is one of the other two) so there is no = rush. Andrew If you want me to find out, I can always email him and ask. That = way you could guage the actual difficulty of it from someone with first = hand experience of WWI-like bombing skills. - ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF877C.820C4580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That would be wonderful. I was = trying to=20 figure out how to determan the diffaclty of hitting the target. = I've only=20 found three people to play (one is a 12 yo G her brother is one of the = other=20 two) so there is no rush.

Andrew

If=20 you want me to find out, I can always email him and ask. That = way you=20 could guage the actual difficulty of it from someone with first hand = experience of WWI-like bombing skills.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF877C.820C4580-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:57:08 PST From: "matthew henley" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) after the kids found the Lt.(or wathever he was, the guy how had his plane shot down) thay were seting around asking him questons about the war and what not, He basicly siad that englend and the rest(I can remeber that he named Englend but not what other cuntreys in eurpe I think also neto in genearl) had dicided to set this one out-now explenaton for it thay jest warn't helping. And that the only contry that had come in on the U.S side had bean Chine(irney) and then he implied that there had bean some nuculer excange. Matt H. (sarry fot the spelling) > >As far as I can remember, the only premise was that the Soviets suddenly >invaded--I don't recall there being any reason mentioned or even hearing >Europe mentioned. But I could be misremembering--it was a long time ago >that I saw it. > >Scott Orr >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:26:45 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Game settings (Red Dawn) > >> I've heard that Grunt is the deragatory name for infantry because > >that's > >> the sound they make when a bullet hits them. I've always > considered it in > >> particularly bad tatse though. Most infantry I knew didn't take it deragatorly even if it was meant that way. They knew their own worth and just regarded you as an idiot if you didn't recognize it. In the 82nd we used the term 'Leg' as an adjective meaning 'anyone not parachute qualified'. It was said pretty deragatorly most of the time. Of course, half the guys you called legs didn't even know what you were talking about, so it was kindof an inside joke. > >However every infantry soldier knows that the rest of the armed forces > >are just there to support them :) > > > >Ballistix > > Talk about right on the nail! I agree with both of you. In the end, it is always up to the infantry guy. > They also have a huge society, T2K assumes everyone is a top > sergeant or > LTC but in reality the army is 90% Privates. They have a social structure > that NCOs and officers have trouble penetrating, I allow a > certain amount of > passive help along these social lines. In my game there is an > unspoken code > that the lower enlisted never involve the other ranks in their troubles, > they work it out themselves without involving those authority figures. I'm not sure how it is in other Armies, but you are correct that officers have trouble penetrating the social structure of the lower enlisted in the US Army. But I would disagree on the NCO's. NCO's were all privates at one time. Everything is a 'been there done that' issue to them. I would agree if you say they wouldn't include officers, but to exclude NCO's would seem odd to me. I guess it depends on the NCO. Some of them are really tight with their guys. Some are kinda distant. Really good NCO's always know the hearts of all their guys and there develops a very strong loyalty between them. I agree there is a divide between NCO's and lower enlisted, but it is WAY smaller than the divide between all enlisted and all officers. It was your ass if you took a problem to the Leutennant before you talked to your Seargent first. It all depends on whether or not you were considered a 'cool-NCO' by the lower enlisted. If you were, you were in on everything. If not, everyone would clam up when you walk up. Very occasionally you would even find an officer that was considered 'cool' by the enlisted guys. Everyone like that which I met in the Army (maybe 2 people) was an OCS grad though (Officer Candidate School, meaning they were enlisted first, unlike most officers which were never enlisted), maybe coincidence maybe not... The infantry considers rank a much more important thing than staff weenies like me did (at least in the 82nd they do, that's the only unit I was ever in except schools). In the infantry a PFC outranks an E2 for real. In our unit (Helicopter Bn), E1 to E4 was all the same thing, just different pay. E5 to E7 was also considered almost the same thing, unless one of the guys was actually in your chain-of-command by position. My S2 section had 2 E5's in it at one time. One was NCOIC and one wasn't. There was NEVER any question who was in charge. Position means a lot, not just rank. Once you hit E8 things started to change. You were so high up there that most lower enlisted guys would never really relax completely around you. But again, that depends on the guy. We had an E8 in charge of our S3 which was considered cool by everyone. He was a private way back in Vietnam, had seen and done everything and everyone respected him (including ALL the officers). But he could hang out with the E2's and everything was cool. Never saw an E9 that lower enlisted liked to pal around with though. Something happens when you go to Seargent Major School that changes you... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:16:20 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (rant) - -----Original Message----- >>Walter wrote: >>If I recall my physics correctly ... specific gravity is a number relating >>the weight (or mass) per volume as related to water. Water weighs a certain >>amount per volume. Thus a material that has a specific gravity of 2, weighs >>twice as much per volume as water. >From: Scott David Orr >In other words, it's essentially the same thing as density. Scott that is a true statement only for water at 4C and the density units are in grams per cubic centimeter (g/cc): both are equal to one. Density (dn) of a substance is the mass per unit volume of that substance: pound mass per cubic foot (lbm/ft3), or gram per cubic centimeter (g/cc) Specific gravity(SG) is the ratio of a substance's density (dn) to the density of a reference substance (commonly water) at a specific condition (dn(ref)): SG=dn/dn(ref); e.g.: SG(H2O, 4C)=(1 g/cc)/(1g/cc) = 1 While density (dn) has dimensional units (like g/cc), SG is "dimensionless". One advantage of dimensionless reference for materials is that you can tell a glance if something is "lighter" or "heavier" than your reference substance. (e.g. SG=0.9 will float on water.) You can also calculate the density of any substance by multiplying its SG by the density of your reference. Abel (BTW the "tonnage" of vehicles designed using FF&S are in tons of liquid hydrogen displaced.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #121 *************************************