twilight2000-digest Saturday, March 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 113 The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: vehicle conversions (rant) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Mind over matter Re: Mind over matter Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. SV: Game settings (Red Dawn) SV: vehicle conversions Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Mind over matter Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Mind over matter Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Swiss and Howitzers Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Different eras-Recon RPG Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] Re: Mind over matter ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 01:38:12 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (rant) At 07:26 PM 3/3/00 -0600, Walter wrote: >> What is specific gravity, and does that play a role at all? > >If I recall my physics correctly ... specific gravity is a number relating >the weight (or mass) per volume as related to water. Water weighs a certain >amount per volume. Thus a material that has a specific gravity of 2, weighs >twice as much per volume as water. > In other words, it's essentially the same thing as density. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 23:57:22 -0700 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) On a similiar theme was the British TV Series "Survivors", this was done in the mid to late 1970's in which a world was decimated by a biological agent which ravaged the population base. The characters changed around some but the episodes they did would make good fodder for Twilight today. T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 00:02:21 -0700 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > > The movie was lame in the extreme. Ignoring for the moment the > improbability of the original premise, real guerillas do not run around > getting killed until none of them are left; real guerillas run and hide > most of the time, fighting only when they've got a clear advantage. And > they also make a habit of recruiting to replenish their numbers, not just > sitting around until there are none left--a guerilla campaign that gets > squashed quickly is pointless, the whole idea being to keep the enemy tied > down indefinitely. I agree... the way the conducted their ops you wondered WHERE they got their intel, how they got there without the locals noticing them (and someone WOULD), and little things like that. The military would have definately been seeding the area of Colorado (etc) in the movie with Special Forces A-Teams to sow dissension in the ranks of the enemy and disrrupt day to day operations. Still as lame as RD may seem Chuck Norris' film "Invasion: USA" was worse-think we can all agree on that... T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:01:02 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) You got it!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 23:02:49 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. The only "squid" slang I know of is in the US;):) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 02:17:47 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) At 12:02 AM 3/4/00 -0700, Rogue09@Sprynet.com wrote: >> Still >as lame as RD may seem Chuck Norris' film "Invasion: USA" was worse-think we >can all agree on that... > Oh yeah--and I only saw one scene from it, on Siskel & Ebert--but it was a BAD scene. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 00:18:44 -0700 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > > Oh yeah--and I only saw one scene from it, on Siskel & Ebert--but it was a > BAD scene. HEH I actually saw it... had to stay up late for a sleep EEG the next day, the plot was loose... you were amazed that Chuck could take on all the invaders himself with no need for support! :-) T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:17:30 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) i knew that there had been a few post-nuke movies. but apart from red dawn has there been any war films done. i am sure the cost of doing something like red storm rising, or ian slaters ww3 or vortex would be amazingly high. i have been a little surprised that the japanese have not had a go with the anime yet. as they seem to like making battle films with hi-tech gear. aaron > Of course, the film doesn't look at the big picture, *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 18:24:30 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) >I actually saw it... had to stay up late for a sleep EEG the next day, the plot >was loose... you were amazed that Chuck could take on all the invaders himself >with no need for support! >T.R. Good ol' Rambo can drive a tank and fire the main gun at the same time! Now that's impressive (and stupid) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:22:22 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) in the movies defense, it never seemed to me to try and be a realistic version more an action film. there are bits i like and bits i don't the movie is okay. if they were real guerillas then i would agree with you, but they were not really real guerillas they were high school kids. which probobly means that they would have been annilated long before they did, but it is the movies. what i liked the most was some of the armoured stuff they had in the film. aaron > real guerillas do not run around > getting killed until none of them are left; real guerillas run and hide > most of the time, fighting only when they've got a clear advantage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 03:32:09 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) At 02:22 AM 3/4/00 -0600, Fugitivus wrote: > > in the movies defense, it never seemed to me to try and be a realistic >version more an action film. there are bits i like and bits i don't the >movie is okay. if they were real guerillas then i would agree with you, but >they were not really real guerillas they were high school kids. which >probobly means that they would have been annilated long before they did, but >it is the movies. > Where do you think real guerillas come from? It's not like they have government training programs for them. In fact, being erstwhile civilians, most guerillas in history have had very well-developed senses of self-preservation--they carefully avoided stand-up fights. > what i liked the most was some of the armoured stuff they had in the >film. > How so? Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 04:46:59 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Mind over matter Sorry a shrimp isn't an insect. It's a member of the Shellfish family!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 04:53:56 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Mind over matter Actually on the Cabbage soup scenario, I remember many years ago on British TV there was a program called Spitting Image, a sort of puppet/muppet show (adult though) which literally took the p**s out of many different well known people at the time. One sketch they did made light of the food situation in Russia at that time (This was around the 80's, I can't remember when.) It had two old Russian people who were sitting around a fire or something, eating beetroot. "Beetroot soup Ivan" "Beetroot Pie" :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 04:58:41 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) I'm not sure if the law has changed. But I believe that nearly ALL Swiss adults carry some sort of weaponry at home. This is due to all Swiss adults being a part of the country's Milita, which could be called up in the case of a national emergency. This information is quite a few years old, but I believe it might still be current!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 05:05:03 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Nope. Squid is Squid, ie a form of Octopus!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 01:30:26 +0100 From: "Carl Roger Nilsen" Subject: SV: Game settings (Red Dawn) On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Fugitivus wrote: > > what other ww3 films are there, no one has done red storm rising or any > of the ian slater seris of books. has there been any other world world > films? www.pamedia.com has a listing of several post-apocalypse computer games, films, rpg's, etc. I have problems with my internet connection, so I can't check it out, but I think (if the adress is correct) that you may find something relevant there. Carl Roger Nilsen "Never overlook something that seems to be simple" Prickle-Prickle, day 63 of Chaos, YOLD: 3166 (falsus) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 01:39:05 +0100 From: "Carl Roger Nilsen" Subject: SV: vehicle conversions >Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:35:14 -0600 >From: "Kevin O'Dell" >Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (rant) > >On Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:49 PM, Carl Roger Nilsen >[SMTP:ca-nilse@online.no] wrote: >> >> Fiberglass, Toughness 0.25, Mass 1 >> [Glass Composite, Toughness 0.75, Mass 1.9; Fiberglass] >> [Aluminum Alloy, Toughness 1, Mass 2.7] >> [Improved Aluminum Alloy, Toughness 1.1, Mass 2.6] >> [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Aluminum Lithium Alloy, Toughness 1.1, Mass 2.4; Spray deposition alloy] >> [Metallic Laminate, Toughness 1.2, Mass 3.6; Structure composed of combination of Aluminum, Titanium and Steel] >> Iron, Toughness 1.5, Mass 8 >> [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Metal Matrix Composite, Toughness 1.6, Mass 2.6; 2-D graphite reinforced Aluminum alloy] >> Soft Steel, Toughness 1.7, Mass 8 [7.8] >> Light Alloy, Toughness 1.7, Mass 6 >> [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Advanced Metallic Laminate, Toughness 1.8, Mass 4; High proportion of Titanium in compound material structure] >> Hard Steel, Toughness 2, Mass 8 [7.8] >> [Super Steel Alloy, Toughness 2.5, Mass 7.8; Inconel, Hastalloy, etc.] >> [Titanium Alloy, Toughness 2.5, Mass 4.9] >> [Advanced Titanium Alloy, Toughness 2.6, Mass 4.7; Beta phase Titanium alloys] >> Titanium Alloy, Toughness 3, Mass 8 >> [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Ceramic Laminated Composite (CLC), Toughness 3.6, Mass 1.8; Layered graphite composite and ceramic sheets] >> Light Composite, Toughness 4, Mass 7 >> [Graphite Composite, Toughness 5, Mass 2.1; 2-D weaved graphite sheets] >> Composite Laminate, Toughness 6, Mass 8 >> [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Laminated Composite, Toughness 6.25, Mass 2.4125; 2-D graphite laminate] >> [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Boron Composite, Toughness 7, Mass 2; 2-D weaved boron filament sheets] >> [Metalic Laminate, Toughness 7.75, Mass 11.13; Uranium reinforced armor] >> (Futuristic/Theoretical) Crystaliron, Toughness 8, Mass 10, which is a ferrous metal with perfect crystal structure and carefully controlled impurities in order to gain maximum hardness and toughness, but this is way ahead in the future, according to GDW canon. > > > > >Just out of curiosity, how do the determine the toughness of this material. >Any idea? Could you rephrase that? Coz I'm a Norwegian and I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that question. Was it; how do you apply these numbers to work with vehicles; how were they calculated; or something else? Carl Roger Nilsen "Never overlook something that seems to be simple" Prickle-Prickle, day 63 of Chaos, YOLD: 3166 (falsus) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:16:25 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > > > Where do you think real guerillas come from? It's not like they have > government training programs for them. In fact, being erstwhile civilians, > most guerillas in history have had very well-developed senses of > self-preservation--they carefully avoided stand-up fights. > > > what i liked the most was some of the armoured stuff they had in the > >film. > > > How so? > > Scott Orr When was the last time you've seen American guerillas? I think the closest would have been during the Civil War. True that guerillas don't have established training centres, but they do often have someone with a former military background leading/training them. I believe all the more successful guerillas have had such. And by successful, I mean simply being able to harass the opposition without being decimated themselves. The thing is, most highschool kids in the US would really only have Hollywood to give them "training" material, including Red Dawn. Not to say there aren't those with more developed tactical and strategic senses. But those would make up a minority. As it is, I came across a line in Harold Coyle's book that suggests that a 'grunt' in the Army really only has to decide between two choices in any situation: to follow an order, or not to follow it. I'll admit no military background on my part besides tons of reading since I first could read. I know the whole thing about an American soldier having to base decisions on morality now (Viet Nam?) But, training still conditions them to snap at orders. Everything else, and taking orders included, is for survival. How to best make use of terrain for cover, sighting fire, that such. But those don't take decisions between choices (maybe deciding whether to take cover behind the wood pile or the brick wall, but that's nitpicking.) So, only to follow orders or not to. So, considering that, your specialist grade "grunt" would really only have the advantage of weapons and survival training over the high school kids. When it comes to conducting operations, that would come from experience, officer schools, or some form of special training (I'm sure the lowest ranking enlisted Green Beret would be better at formulating and operations plan than a plain Infantry Second Lieutenant right out of OTC.) So, my point? That the film isn't overly realistic, but isn't as far-fetched in some respects either. You're dealing with a bunch of highscool kids with Hollywood as their teacher, and a "not in my backyard" attitude. Are you from the US Scott? If so, you must have known guys who would act/react the same way while you were growing up. I know I did. We can only hope that one of us "smarter" ones would be around to guide them some. But then, it was usually the jock that everyone would turn to. Me, I'd sit up in the hills while they all followed him to their deaths. After I tried to warn them, of course. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:16:40 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. They are different critters all together. On Sat, 4 Mar 2000 CMarkChester@aol.com wrote: > Nope. Squid is Squid, ie a form of Octopus!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------- > "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a > medical name for it!" > "Yes it's called cowardice" > (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------- > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:32:52 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > I'm not sure if the law has changed. But I believe that nearly ALL Swiss > adults carry some sort of weaponry at home. This is due to all Swiss adults > being a part of the country's Milita, which could be called up in the case of > a national emergency. This information is quite a few years old, but I > believe it might still be current!! I knew about small arms, and imagine it is still the same. I was curious about the issue with howitzers. Are they still permitted (with the proper paperwork first) or have they given that up? Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 02:44:32 -0800 From: Ronald Gene Hale Subject: Re: Mind over matter When I took a survival course through boyscouts we had to eat earthworms, waterbeetles, termites, ants, a lizard called an aligator lizard here. Other than those, I've eaten, Deer, Buffalo, Elk, Moose, Rattlesnake, Skunk, Bear, Opossum, and some others that I can't think of right know. It's all good, when your hungry. Ron Hale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:43:03 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > i knew that there had been a few post-nuke movies. but apart from red > dawn has there been any war films done. i am sure the cost of doing > something like red storm rising, or ian slaters ww3 or vortex would be > amazingly high. i have been a little surprised that the japanese have not > had a go with the anime yet. as they seem to like making battle films with > hi-tech gear. > > aaron > If you're talking about Larry Bond's Vortex, I don't think it's be any more expensive than other films being made. It would be dated though, and basically about a moot issue. The thing is, large scale war films aren't being made much anymore, unless they take place on another planet. Perhaps the resurgent interest in WW2 might change some of that. But even then, we're unlikely to see anything modern based. Most modern era war films deal with smaller pictures. They don't look at something big like the Longest Day. Even that was a small piece compared to the entire war. Usually, you have to have a mini-series to get a bigger picture (like Ike: The War Years...) I do agree with the anime perspective, except for two notes. A lot of the big, battling Anime is dealing with future, techno- stuff. Mechs and the like. That's what the Anime fans like and expect. Or they're dealing with some darker, post apocalyptic issue. The other point is: Anime isn't really all that less expensive, for a comparable length film. And it can take a lot longer to produce. Granted, you don't deal with big-name star prices. But, when you take their salaries out, the productions costs of an animated feature, and a live action film, are quite comparable. There's a lot of work that must be done to create animation. Think of how easy it is to film a person running across a field. Maybe takes a few hours with retakes and different angles. Now imagine drawing each frame of movement of an animated character running across the field. We're now talking days instead of hours -- and just for one angle. Want multiple angles? Multiply the time needed by each additional angle. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 02:42:02 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Mind over matter I stand corrected, shrimp are NOT insecta, they are crustacea, but I still studied them in entomology 101. "all bugs are insects, but not all insects are bugs" 'famous' quote from my ento prof:) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 08:13:42 EST From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Well there's two Tom Clancy's books are in the works The sum of all fears and maybe Rainbow Six. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:00:16 -0600 From: "Walter" Subject: Swiss and Howitzers > > > I'm not sure if the law has changed. But I believe that nearly > ALL Swiss > > adults carry some sort of weaponry at home. This is due to all Swiss > adults > > being a part of the country's Milita, which could be called up > in the case > of > > a national emergency. This information is quite a few years old, but I > > believe it might still be current!! > > > I knew about small arms, and imagine it is still the same. I was curious > about the issue with howitzers. Are they still permitted (with the proper > paperwork first) or have they given that up? > In Switzerland all able bodied men from 18 years old to 45 (I think it's 45, I don't remember) are a member of the Swiss Army. That was up until about a year or two ago. Thats when they held a national referendum on doing away with the army altogether. Well, the referendum failed, but to appease those against the military, they restructured the service requirements. Now you either have to do military service or civil service (your choice). The military service is very similiar to the reserves in the US. Their basic training is really long though, like 19 weeks I think. My mom is Swiss (and lives there) and this is the story I got from her. Also, yes, almost everyone has a full-auto assault rifle in their home. My brother took a marksmanship class in 'high school' over there and he was given a full-auto assault rifle to take home. It's no big deal, done everyday. Can you imagine them doing that in a US high school? Hah! I don't know about the howitzer thing, but I know paint ball is illegal. It's because a bunch of guys went into the woods playing paintball, some farmer saw them, didn't realize what was going on and called the police. Their SWAT team came out and it was almost a disaster. So they decided NO paint ball guns. In the US they would have tried to say 'no real guns'. Interesting contrast huh? You know, my mom got a door lock installed on the front door of her apartment only about 15 years ago. So it wasn't like they didn't lock the door, but there wasn't a lock at all! That's changed now, everyone has locks and uses them. Even though the total crime for the whole country for a whole year is about the same as 1 day in a single city in the US (or it was a while back, maybe not anymore). Switzerland is nice, but before you go moving there, realize that it is socially very different. What we used to call 'blue laws' in the US are considered the norm over there. You know, stuff like: 'it's illegal to hang your laundry on sunday', stores close at 6pm (NO 24 hr WalMarts!), etc... If your hungry at 2am, fix something yourself, nothing is open, don't even try. I just talked to my mom this morning and she was telling me about a new movie that was coming out over there called 'Three Kings'. She thought I might be interested because it was set in the gulf war. So if you like to see movies during the same decade they come out, Switzerland isn't the place for you. But they have awesome bakeries that kick the snot out of anything over here, so it's always a trade off... You know you can own a howitzer in the US if you really want and got the money. You need a license for a 'destructive device'. It costs like $3000 a year, or some crap like that. You have to sign a consent to be searched anytime they want. You gotta have a bank vault to store it in. Etc. Etc. Etc. How do you think the companies that make them get their first one for testing? They start a company, swindle a bunch of investors to give them money, then get a liscense from the gov't, then build away. Call the ATF if you want details on the liscense requirements, that way they can put you on their list of possible terrorists. Maybe they have a web site? The full liscense requirements are probably outrageous. But then we don't wany every Tom, Dick, and Harry running around with a cannon do we? But if you want to make it you life's ambition to own a howitzer, you probably can eventually. BTW, to attempt to put a T2K twist on this ... Switzerland is probably one of the few civilized places left in Europe after 5 years of WWIII. With all their hollow mountain fortresses though, I wouldn't try to take it over... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:29:45 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > The line of thought I found flawed in "Red Dawn" was the > idea that 'Free America' was thinking about sending in some > speical forces in the spring. I have strong doubts that > the military commands would wait until spring to send at > least a half team in with some technical assistance if ther > were partisians doing as much damage to the enemy as > portraied in the movie? Thoughts? My understanding was that they were still regrouping and getting things in Free America under control with only small excusions to harrass the enemy. That in the spring, they expected to have everything sorted well enough to do such things as supporting partisans and launching offensives. Considering that we were looking at winter when this took place, waiting 4-6 mos. for technical assistance doesn't seem too inappropriate for reaction times. Also, if there were in fact other groups doing those kinds of damage to the enemy- it would hardly look like they needed much in the way of technical assistance. Just my thoughts. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:32:43 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > War Games was banned for a bit more than that. It portrayed the complete > breakdown of society after a major nuclear war (focussing on a town in Kent, > Gravesend possibly?). Rumours got out about what it was going to show and a > backlash begun. This was after the blitz when people pulled together and > got through it and it was seen as unfeasible and insulting to suggest that > the opposite would happen should a "similar" type of incident occur. > Mark When you guys brought up "War Games", the movie that came to my mind was a fairly poor "what if..." film dealing with a computer hacker that got into the US Gov's. Nuke computer and set off a potential launch. The one you're talking about sounds pretty interesting though. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:35:28 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: Different eras-Recon RPG > I never buy Palladium crap, someone gave the recon book. I dont think I still > have it, but when I can I'll look. > Ron Hale Hmm... I have stayed away from Rifts stuff, but I do have several books by Palladium- Weapons and Castles, Weapons and Armor, Contemporary Weapons Exotic Weapons, six or eight of these in all that seem both very accurate and very adaptable to just about any game. Contemporary Weapons was one that I wasn't fond of- although the idea of broken bones and other such problems from getting shot seemed to be one of the more realistic approaches to modern combat. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:38:00 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] > Sorry forgot to mention. If you want I can go through the list and highlight > which of the units are infantry units. It makes it easier for you really. > Unless > you have already managed to sort that out. > Ballistix Hey Ballistix, What version of Acrobat did you use to put these into PDF? I am getting errors trying to open it- but then I'm using Acrobat 2.0 and REALLY need to upgrade considering that 4.0 is out now. Also, since I haven't been able to access the doc- I haven't been able to sort anything, but I imagine that some of the lurkers/newbies who decided to grab it might well be able to use that highlighting. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 10:48:40 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: Mind over matter > Do you think I should go easy with the starvation idea, or hold my ground > and be honest: be brutal? > What types of conflicts would you expect? for example, someone is holding out > on a stash of candy bars, or alike. > Would most people who are starving, share food with PC's, or would they have to > "Take it". And under what conditions would you give food, what could the PC's > offer when you are all starving to death? > Steve I don't know how everyone else feels, but to me T2k is all about post-nuclear survival and is supposed to be brutal. I would never go out of my way to cause the PCs specific sufferings, but if they were in the position- no punches pulled. With no insults intended, if people have a problem playing survival up in a survival game- then it seems that they are not mature enough to be playing it to begin with and maybe they should play something a little less sobering- "Like Toon" came to mind, but... Anyway, in response to your question on sharing food and the like- people have been known to share in the worst of conditions, then others not even in the best. Awhile back, I read a book called "Inspired Prophetic Writings". While it was by and far a religious type book- they did go into a good picture of the results of famine and war on a country in general. Things like roving packs of gangs who would enter homes for no other purpose than to search for food. Finding it- they'd often torture/kill those within simply for hording it in times of need. Not finding it, they'd often torture those same people to get them to show them where the stash was at. People needing to keep their curtains open, just so people didn't think they were eating food in their house and stuff like that- kind of scary, but a good read IMO. My earlier mention of the Wilderness Survival Guide in reference to cold could be of use in how to deal with starvation, dehydration, heat, and cold in a T2k framework as well- tweaking necessary of course. Then it also goes into a lot of ideas as far as foraging, fishing, hunting, and finding water as well. While not 100% accurate, it is one of the best game sources that I've come across for getting at least the overall feel across. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #113 *************************************