twilight2000-digest Saturday, March 4 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 112 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: Different eras-Recon RPG Mind over matter Re: A few newbie questions Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] Re: Mind over matter Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: Mind over matter Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Mind over matter Re: Mind over matter Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: Mind over matter OOPS! Beyond Red Dawn Re: Game settings (Books) Re: Game settings (Books) Re: Beyond Red Dawn Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 01:42:53 -0000 From: "Mark Oliver" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) - -----Original Message----- From: CMarkChester@aol.com To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 03 March 2000 22:15 Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) <<< Actually in Britiain there were two big ones!! War Games - A late 60's made for TV film. This was banned for a while by the BBC (Just in case it caused panic!!) >>> War Games was banned for a bit more than that. It portrayed the complete breakdown of society after a major nuclear war (focussing on a town in Kent, Gravesend possibly?). Rumours got out about what it was going to show and a backlash begun. This was after the blitz when people pulled together and got through it and it was seen as unfeasible and insulting to suggest that the opposite would happen should a "similar" type of incident occur. The BBC lost it's nerve and banned it. They did relent and in the 1980s it was shown on the same evening as threads I recall. <<< And Threads - A 80's post nuclear drama. Far better than The Morning After, and far more horrific!! >>> Totally agree! We watched "The Morning After" in school (with a teacher who pointed out the silos and said that the US had built similar things in the UK, I regret to this day that I didn't feel able to tell her what a load or a**e she was talking) and I watched Threads myself. Threads seemed far more realistic and a lot less "glamorous". As with "When the Wind Blows" it was very dark and depressing with no uplifting. Strange how the UK approach to WW3 type films and drama seems much darker than the US image. "The Morning After" seems to transpose the UK reaction to heavy German bombing into the US as I recall, people pulling together and getting through it. In the UK where "we" actually went through the bombing we went for a far darker and less comforting future. <<< Both I believe might no longer be available!! >>> There are some web sites out there that can "arrange" a VHS version (PAL only probably) of Threads and probably War Games. Well worth looking for (do a search for "Threads") and trying to get your hands on a copy. Compared to "The Morning After" it looks cheap but it's by far the better, more gripping and more realistic drama. Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:17:58 EST From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. In a message dated 03/03/2000 4:07:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, graebarde@yahoo.com writes: << It's all a matter of mind over stomach.. about the ONLY thing I cann't stomach is snake.. cann't stand snakes so it's all in the mind.. buds say it tastes like chicken, but then everything does??.. >> I can testify that yes, indeed, snake tastes like chicken. I had the unique opportunity about 4 years ago in Taiwan, two of my buddies took me to this place called Snake Alley in Taipei. It's a street famous for resturants that serve snake soup, among other things. The cook puts on a show when you order snake. Not to be crass or anything, but it's a bit like Benihana's. The cook brings out the snake, shows it to everyone, lays it out on a cutting board, hits it on the head and breaks its spine. Then he flays it, debones it and cuts it up and takes it on back to the kitchen to cook. This is all done right out on the street so everyone can see and everytime someone does, a crowd gathers. Mostly tourists and such, if I remember. The animal rights activists would revolt if we did anything like this in the USA. Incidentally this was the same time Taiwan had it's first presidential election, and the PRC decided to lob some missiles their way. Not fun. I'd also agree that Western cultures have a whole different perspective on food vs. Eastern cultures. The Cantonese have a saying, "If it walks on legs, you can eat it." Although the French do eat escargot... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:25:44 -0800 From: Ronald Gene Hale Subject: Re: Different eras-Recon RPG OrrinLadd@aol.com wrote: Yo Ron, Are you talking about the first edition of Recon by RPG Inc? I can't recall anything by Palladium having only 3 stats and being the simplest game in the world. I'm looking at my copy of 1st ed. copy of Recon and it has three stats, Strength, Alertness and Agility. It was a damn simple game to learn and run. Fun too. Of course I could be wrong, I don't have the Palladium version of Recon, saw it and put it back with the rest of the Palladium munchie junk...I mean Rifts stuff. The copy I had said The Revised Recon, but I dont know the ED #. It probly was a 1stED. I never buy Palladium crap, someone gave the recon book. I dont think I still have it, but when I can I'll look. Ron Hale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 19:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Mind over matter The French also eat frog legs.. and they're no where as good as the American bullfrog we giged from ponds.. It would take about 20 of their frog legs to equal one of the medium sized ones I've seen. Another thought on mind over matter.. most people have no aversion to eating shrimp, but would never consider eating other forms of insect life ;) chocolate covered ants anyone? People who eat rabbit, cringe at the thought of rat, yet they are both rodents, and field rats (those that have not been living off garbage or trash, but grains in the fields) are a viable source of animal protein. And NO I will not say they taste like chicken:) I guess one of the points I've been trying to make with aversion to foods we're not use to is survival. If a person refuses to eat a type of food because it's repulsive in time of plenty, they are apt to refrain from "repulsive" food in times of famine until it's too late. Protein is what we've come to discuss, and without it we will wither and die, be it vegetable or animal.. Carbohydrates keep you full and give energy, but do not replace muscle like protein. Look at pics of PW's, skin and bone, because they did not get the protein they needed [as well as a lot of other nutrients, protein was the main factor]. Putting this into a T2K perspective the PC's survival depends on the quality of his/her diet, not just the kilos of food inhaled[sic] daily. For long term campaigning this should be considered. Also the 'repulsiveness' of certain food to a character.. We've had the dog menu in campaigns and had players say I wouldn't really do that, so we rule.. neither does your player, and he goes without. Cruel, unusual, but realistic IMO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:25:21 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: A few newbie questions Hey I have a gaming shop nearby me that usually has some 2nd hand TW2K stuff in it. If people would like to email me with a list of the books that they want to get hold of, I'll take a look and see what I can find. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:26:04 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] NPS, glad we could help. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 20:27:16 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] Sorry forgot to mention. If you want I can go through the list and highlight which of the units are infantry units. It makes it easier for you really. Unless you have already managed to sort that out. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 22:22:02 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: Mind over matter GRAEBARDE wrote: > <> > > I guess one of the points I've been trying to make with > aversion to foods we're not use to is survival. If a > person refuses to eat a type of food because it's repulsive > in time of plenty, they are apt to refrain from "repulsive" > food in times of famine until it's too late. Protein is > what we've come to discuss, and without it we will wither > and die, be it vegetable or animal.. Carbohydrates keep > you full and give energy, but do not replace muscle like > protein. Look at pics of PW's, skin and bone, because they > did not get the protein they needed [as well as a lot of > other nutrients, protein was the main factor]. > This is very true; one of my neighbors served in South Vietnam (His native county) and is an old fellow. To survive he ate what ever kept him and his family alive. I found this out because one day I got to talk with him about weapon characteristics of the era and the conversation of food came up. He said he didn't understand the humane society putting so many animals to sleep when the food bank was in such need! YES, I was shocked at first, but I have a lot of respect for this person. As he has been to hell and back and survived. At the end of the day, when you are starving, one will do what is necessary to survive. I recall a movie based on a true story about a plane crash and the passengers had to eat the dead members, because they were thought lost in the snow for months. > > Putting this into a T2K perspective the PC's survival > depends on the quality of his/her diet, not just the kilos > of food inhaled[sic] daily. For long term campaigning this > should be considered. Also the 'repulsiveness' of certain > food to a character.. We've had the dog menu in campaigns > and had players say I wouldn't really do that, so we rule.. > neither does your player, and he goes without. Cruel, > unusual, but realistic IMO > __________________________________________________ > Yes, I have put starvation into a campaign many years ago, and got a very nasty response from two of the girls and one guy (one girl was his girl friend), I caved to pressure and "Adjusted" the scenario. This time, with a few new players and couple old ones, I was considering the famine idea in Australia, Thank you to Jim, and Ballistix for the great info, as well as others. I think I will try this scenario in the fall. Do you think I should go easy with the starvation idea, or hold my ground and be honest: be brutal? What types of conflicts would you expect? for example, someone is holding out on a stash of candy bars, or alike. Would most people who are starving, share food with PC's, or would they have to "Take it". And under what conditions would you give food, what could the PC's offer when you are all starving to death? Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 19:50:05 -0500 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) The movie with Jason Robards was called "The Day After," came out in November of 1983 and was produced by ABC (American Broadcasting Company). I remember back in the 80's, I liked to tape all the doomsday films and still have them to this day. "The Day After" was pretty cool, but two films which really freaked me out was "Threads" (BBC - 1984-85) and "Testament" (1983) starring Jane Alexander. "Threads" took place in the UK and followed the exploits of a young girl from just before the nukes falling to 13 years into the future. "Testament" was about a 35 or 40ish year old mother with three or four kids who wonders if her husband survived the nuclear hit on San Francisco while you see the people of the small, country town they live in die or leave one by one. The thing that always got to me about that film was nobody took any action to hole up from the radioactive fallout, they just hung around outside, did their business in the town (as best as they could under the circumstances) and wonder. One thing I did like about it was one of the main characters was an old man and his amateur radios. "The War Game" made in the UK in the mid 60's was another good one, I remember taping it off of our local PBS station when they ran it. Hmmm, I remember the Soviet film, "Letters from a Dead Man," when Turner Broadcasting played that about 1986 or so, remember taping that one too. Very sad film, the main character wonders if his "part of the system" triggered WWIII through a computer glitch while waiting for his son to show up so they could go into a bunker for 30 years. I always got a big kick when he had flashbacks in his mind to the moment when the nukes started to fall, I remember the people playing Army troops had M-16's and were typing on IBM-PC's trying to account for everybody. "DefCon 4" was another film, albeit with a low budget, about a group of astronauts who were aboard a space station carrying nuke missiles finally come down to Earth after their supplies ran out. They decided not to launch their nukes but to jettison them. They came down into an area that had a huge marauder group led by a teenaged kid and at the end, when the kid saw a nuke ticking down to zero in their spacecraft, he sad, "what is that?" then BOOOOOOOOMMMM! Well, here is a list of some doomsday films I have enjoyed. Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 15:47:51 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. >It's all a matter of mind over stomach.. about the ONLY >thing I cann't stomach is snake.. cann't stand snakes so >it's all in the mind.. buds say it tastes like chicken, but >then everything does??.. I know for a fact that crocodile doesn't taste like chicken, it's 'chickenish' but you'd be able to taste the difference immediately. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:10:07 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Mind over matter >Putting this into a T2K perspective the PC's survival >depends on the quality of his/her diet, not just the kilos >of food inhaled[sic] daily. For long term campaigning this >should be considered. Also the 'repulsiveness' of certain >food to a character.. We've had the dog menu in campaigns >and had players say I wouldn't really do that, so we rule.. >neither does your player, and he goes without. Cruel, >unusual, but realistic IMO Imagine feeding a battalion! Cabbage soup anyone? For desert there's . . . cabbage soup! etc etc Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:21:38 EST From: Damage169@cs.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) It has been written: > "The Morning After" with Jason Robards [spelling ?], was a > WW3, but NOT as good as "Red Dawn" TMA was an antinuc > movie that came out about the time the Nuclear Winter > theory hit the scene. > _______________________ Correction to make, the name of the movie is "The Day After" and was filmed in the Lawrence, KS, and Kansas City Metro area, using mostly local people except for the name stars. A few friends of mine were attending Kansas University at the time the movie was filming and got jobs as part of the crowds in some of the shots. BTW, you've got the name spelled correctly. Simon Jester *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:28:41 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > "The Morning After" with Jason Robards [spelling ?], was a > WW3, but NOT as good as "Red Dawn" TMA was an antinuc > movie that came out about the time the Nuclear Winter > theory hit the scene. > __________________________________________________ True, and many point at liberal Democrats being behind the movie. At the same time, people point at Red Dawn and call it a Pro-Gun ownership film (or anti-Anti-gun, or Anti-gun control... However you want to put it.). Possibly true. It's easy to look at the film and say "If they outlawed private gun ownership, those kids wouldn't have been able to do anything..." Of course, the film doesn't look at the big picture, so it's difficult to say how much an affect they had to the overall operations. Though there was mention of other groups doing the same thing, many after hearing about the Wolverines (sound's like the player's group in T2K... Isn't the idea that there are many groups operating in similar fashion, so that what the player's do can be multiplied 10 or 100 fold, to have a big affect?) Just some political food for thought. It's one of my favorite, nostalgia films (having grown up during the 80s.) And I am pro-individual firearms ownership. I plan on moving to Switzerland when the ban firearms completely here in the US. Only about a decade away from that. Another little tidbit: When I was doing research for Mock Trial in highschool, I came across information that in Switzerland, private individuals could own cannon and howitzers. It required a permit, and I wondered how one would "practice" using them (lob shells into France?) Does anyone know if this has changed? Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:37:49 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Mind over matter Steve: I don't know how you interjected starvation into the campaign, nor what the "nasty response" was, so I can't directly address your situation. As a HOG[gm], YOU control the flow of the game, and provide the resources to the players as YOU see it. In putting a starvation factor into the game, I do not just one day say "your out of food and starving".. If the PC's run out of food, they should realize if they don't get some, THEY WILL STARVE. Let them decide how they are going to get more food. There are several ways to acquire food in T2K: 1)grow it [this is not an option at the time of running out of food for obvious reasons related to time involved to get a crop]; 2)forage and hunt [the success is dependent on the territory, time of year, and the PC's skills.. also their initiive to get off their backside and do it; 3)barter [good if you have something to trade and the people are willing and/or able to do so, again the success depends on the situation and the PC's skills ie persuasion]; 4)beg [much like barter, but there is nothing to trade]; and 5)steal. Stealing or "taking it" makes you no better than a black flag in the eyes of the victims. In many cases, depending on how much is taken, it is a sentence of death for them. Before they get to any point you should have a action/reaction figured out. It depends on how "generous" you are. A group encountering a group of refugees that has been on half rations for a week, and one days worth of food would be reluctant to give up any of their food IMO, but I know of cultures that would give a stranger asking for food all they had, even if it was minimal.. Others wouldn't give you their sweat if you were dying of thirst.. there are all types of people, and they're your creations, you control their reaction/actions when dealing with PC's. Remember in T2K as in real life you can do anything you want as long as you're willing to face the consequences.. Stealing will NOT make friends, and in T2K can make you dead quick if the victim has the means. How would I do it, as a PC I'd go down the list.. using forage/hunt first, barter if I could, beg if I have to, and if it comes to stealing, make DAMN SURE I'M NOT CAUGHT. Fortunately, even in the worst situations I've campaigned I've never reached option 5. I've had other PC's who's first thought is stealing, but they were usually "talked" out of it by the group as we all would pay the price of a thief in our midst. Maybe I approach T2K from a different angle than most, but I look at T2K as a game of survival. I was also brought up to do unto others as they would do unto me, so the innocent or have nots get treated with respect.. black flags and slavers are fair game:).. Ya gotta read the sign, and be ware of false sign! Jim adds imagine feeding a battalion. It's difficult to say the least, and that's one of the reasons why the world's population has diminished. It truly is a survival of the fitest in the year 2000. The reason armies only campaign in the summer.. they have to grow there own food, not just for the campaign, but to last until the next crop. To protect their own survival against roving bands that have neither the ability or willingness to grow their own.. much like gangs today, "why work for it when I can steal it". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:39:58 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Mind over matter Steve: I don't know how you interjected starvation into the campaign, nor what the "nasty response" was, so I can't directly address your situation. As a HOG[gm], YOU control the flow of the game, and provide the resources to the players as YOU see it. In putting a starvation factor into the game, I do not just one day say "your out of food and starving".. If the PC's run out of food, they should realize if they don't get some, THEY WILL STARVE. Let them decide how they are going to get more food. There are several ways to acquire food in T2K: 1)grow it [this is not an option at the time of running out of food for obvious reasons related to time involved to get a crop]; 2)forage and hunt [the success is dependent on the territory, time of year, and the PC's skills.. also their initiive to get off their backside and do it; 3)barter [good if you have something to trade and the people are willing and/or able to do so, again the success depends on the situation and the PC's skills ie persuasion]; 4)beg [much like barter, but there is nothing to trade]; and 5)steal. Stealing or "taking it" makes you no better than a black flag in the eyes of the victims. In many cases, depending on how much is taken, it is a sentence of death for them. Before they get to any point you should have a action/reaction figured out. It depends on how "generous" you are. A group encountering a group of refugees that has been on half rations for a week, and one days worth of food would be reluctant to give up any of their food IMO, but I know of cultures that would give a stranger asking for food all they had, even if it was minimal.. Others wouldn't give you their sweat if you were dying of thirst.. there are all types of people, and they're your creations, you control their reaction/actions when dealing with PC's. Remember in T2K as in real life you can do anything you want as long as you're willing to face the consequences.. Stealing will NOT make friends, and in T2K can make you dead quick if the victim has the means. How would I do it, as a PC I'd go down the list.. using forage/hunt first, barter if I could, beg if I have to, and if it comes to stealing, make DAMN SURE I'M NOT CAUGHT. Fortunately, even in the worst situations I've campaigned I've never reached option 5. I've had other PC's who's first thought is stealing, but they were usually "talked" out of it by the group as we all would pay the price of a thief in our midst. Maybe I approach T2K from a different angle than most, but I look at T2K as a game of survival. I was also brought up to do unto others as they would do unto me, so the innocent or have nots get treated with respect.. black flags and slavers are fair game:).. Ya gotta read the sign, and be ware of false sign! Jim adds imagine feeding a battalion. It's difficult to say the least, and that's one of the reasons why the world's population has diminished. It truly is a survival of the fitest in the year 2000. The reason armies only campaign in the summer.. they have to grow there own food, not just for the campaign, but to last until the next crop. To protect their own survival against roving bands that have neither the ability or willingness to grow their own.. much like gangs today, "why work for it when I can steal it". __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:40:37 EST From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) In a message dated 3/3/00 12:40:42 AM, cell-66@softhome.net writes: << what other ww3 films are there, no one has done red storm rising or any of the ian slater seris of books. has there been any other world world films? >> I've seen many B-grade sci-fi flicks that were really bad and too many to list here, but a few good ones that stick out in my head are: World War III: starring Rock Hudson & Cathy Lee Crosby Amerika: starring Robert Urich Dr. Strangelove: starring Peter Sellers, George C. Scott & Slim Pickens WarGames: starring Matthew Broderick - -Billy Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:46:36 EST From: Damage169@cs.com Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. In a message dated 3/3/00 13:41:01 -0800 (PST), Ray Wiberg writes: > > > I just got to thinking about all the various places McDonald's has gotten > > itself into nowadays (Moscow, Peking, even Iran, IIRC) and I wondered > about > > the type of "meat" they serve in their hamburgers in India. The majority > of > > the population reveres cows for some reason and get very irked if anyone > > suggests eating them. How does McDonald's (or any other Western fast-food > > chain) go about dealing with this? > > I wouldn't think they do deal with it :) Not everyone in India is Hindu > however, far from it...there are tons of Muslims, Sikhs, and Christians > (most of them eat beef, and on a side note: Hate each other!). > > Ray > and In a message dated Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:59:51 EST, CMarkChester@aol.com writes: > > Actually that's not quite right!! Muslims (as far as I can make out) have a > similar food standard like the Jewish Kosher! The Muslim kosher is known as > Halal. Everything that a good Muslim eats must be declared as Halal. If the Halal is anything like the Jewish Kosher requirements, it would restrict Muslims from frequenting any restaurant that did not use a full set of pots, pans, stoves, etc., just for their food preparation. If any kosher food comes in contact with any cooking item used to cook any non-kosher food, it becomes non-kosher itself. And I don't care how many hamburgers McDonald's might sell, they simply would not be able to make a profit if they had to maintain two full separate sets of everything, including cleaning supplies, in the same store. This wouldn't prevent them from setting up a store just for Muslims and one just for Hindu customers, but I just don't see them writing off half (or more) of their customer base just to satisfy a religious tenet. Of course, I may be totally mistaken. Do we have anyone on the list who has lived in/visited/knows anyone from India who might be able to answer this? It's gotten to be one of those questions that will keep buzzing around my skull until I get a decent answer. Simon Jester *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:49:59 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Mind over matter OOPS! Sorry for the double feed. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:03:12 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Beyond Red Dawn I've got to check out the movies from the UK, unfortunately I have not seen them, or can't remember them (age??) Along the thread of media scenarios, one of the books of post nuclear war survival that I found "enjoyable" and have reread several times is "Malevil" . I tried to find the book in my maze I call a library, but to no avail [yet] so I'm not sure if it's the correct spelling, or who the author was.. I beleive he was French, as it is set in France.. It was written in the 70's I beleive, maybe before.. but it shows all the trials of survival: dealing with marauders, warlords, refugees, and plain people like themselves trying to survive.. I found it well written. Another was "Alas Babylon". This was written about the time of the cuban missle crisis, so is dated some, but has a good storyline of survival in a community after the bomb. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Game settings (Books) A couple other great books IMO are: Alas, Babylon: Deals with a towns struggle to survive the aftermath of an exchange, set in the 50's or 60's I think, so a bit outta date, but full of timeless problems none the less. Canticle For Leibowitz: Set in several eras after the "fall", this book takes an interesting long term look at a possible future. A sci-fi CLASSIC! Warday: This story takes place in the US, and is the story of a journalist who travels the US to get a feel for conditions everwhere. Interestingly, the gov't does not completely collapse as is common with literature and films of this vein. A very interesting read. These are some of the better ones I have read I can think of off the top of my head. I'm gonna add another good on that, while not technically a WWIII story, is a very good read for a disaster of great magnitude. Lucifer's Hammer: Large comet smacks into Earth....earthquakes, tidal waves, volcanic eruptions, rioting, starvation, warfare. I think you get the idea :) Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:08:22 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Game settings (Books) Ray: Great minds think alike?:) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 17:19:53 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Beyond Red Dawn >Another was "Alas Babylon". This was written about the >time of the cuban missle crisis, so is dated some, but has >a good storyline of survival in a community after the bomb. A good one was Poul Anderson's 'No Truce With Kings" It handles the 'Nobility' thing I was talking about before very well. 'Bossmen' rise from among their communities in post-erk USA and their positions become semi-heriditary, he actually postulates that such a setup is prefered by the surviving communities because they'll never grow large enough to involve themselves in another holocaust. Polish people IMHO are not likely to accept a single dictatorial leader if given a chance for self determination, they have far too much experience with it to have any illusions. While they may have some respect for a 'Margrave' I'm sure they wouldn't let him run the country. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 01:30:55 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) At 04:29 PM 3/3/00 -0800, GRAEBARDE wrote: >The line of thought I found flawed in "Red Dawn" was the >idea that 'Free America' was thinking about sending in some >speical forces in the spring. I have strong doubts that >the military commands would wait until spring to send at >least a half team in with some technical assistance if ther >were partisians doing as much damage to the enemy as >portraied in the movie? Thoughts? The movie was lame in the extreme. Ignoring for the moment the improbability of the original premise, real guerillas do not run around getting killed until none of them are left; real guerillas run and hide most of the time, fighting only when they've got a clear advantage. And they also make a habit of recruiting to replenish their numbers, not just sitting around until there are none left--a guerilla campaign that gets squashed quickly is pointless, the whole idea being to keep the enemy tied down indefinitely. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 01:33:09 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. At 07:41 PM 3/3/00 EST, CMarkChester@aol.com wrote: >Actually this all about the bloke going "meow" reminded me of a legend my >family told me. Many, many years ago (we're talking the 50's here folks), my >father was in the RAF. He was stationed in Gibraltar, and he and my mother >went to a local restaraunt. And my father ordered all this food, which he >and my mother proceeded to eat. My mother proceeded to eat a dish of >Calimari (I think thats the right name although I could be wrong!!) Half way >through my father asked my mother "Do you like that" My mother replied "Oh >yes it's very nice." Then my father replied "Well I'll know to get you Squid >the next time." My mother's face proceeds to turn white, and she leaves the >restaraunt rather quick!! :-) > Does "squid" have some sort of slang meaning in Britain that I'm unaware of? Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #112 *************************************