twilight2000-digest Friday, March 3 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 110 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Ts O&E Re: vehicle conversions (short post) Re: vehicle conversions (short post) Re: A few newbie questions Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Different eras Re: Different eras Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Ts O&E Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #108 Re: Ts O&E Re: Ts O&E Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) Re: Ts O&E Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #108 RE: vehicle conversions (rant) Re: A few newbie questions Re: Ts O&E RE: Ts O&E Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] RE: vehicle conversions (rant) Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: SV: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:01:00 EST From: GDWGAMES@aol.com Subject: Re: Ts O&E In a message dated 00-03-02 20:52:43 EST, you write: << I tend to think the TOE's given from T2k were a bit theoretical. >> They were also considerably under strength . . . Loren Wiseman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:14:17 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: vehicle conversions (short post) the guys on the list have usually been very helpful when it has come to stats for things. i have never seen them talk down to someone who doesn't know something or is misinformed. what i try to do when it comes to vehicle stats that i don't have is try to find a tank or whatever that is similar. it depnds on how important the thing is. if it is window dressing then the stat son't matter as much. if it is being used in direct conflict then the stats are important then i ask the list. my problem is the small arms guide that i have and the u.s guide are first ed and i use 2nd ed. aaron > > Hi > > I am new to the list, and I need a way to take basic information on weapons > > and vehicles and convert them to game stats. How do you guys go about this? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:15:09 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: vehicle conversions (short post) how have people worked in reactive or compisite armor into the stats? aaron *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:40:40 EST From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: A few newbie questions In a message dated 3/1/00 11:20:32 PM, akolb@tekhullogy.com writes: << I only have the main book, "Twilight encounters", "Airlords of the Ozarks" and the second part of the adventure in Texas. I do know a guy that thinks he has "Merc:2000" and something like "Bangkok Cesspool of the Orient" he said if he can find then he’ll just give them to me. Are there any "Can’t live without" books I should look for? >> Well, if you could find them, I suggest: The Small Arms Guide & The Heavy Weapons Guide - -Billy Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:46:17 EST From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) In a message dated 3/2/00 12:58:53 AM, CSGULLEDGE@satx.rr.com writes: << I played in a campaign back in high school (when T:2K first came out, 15yrs ago !!!!!) in which we were resistance fighters in S. Texas, ala Red Dawn, with the advantage being that we were from S. Texas, so it gave a more realistic flavor, so to speak. >> I don't care what anyone says. I think RED DAWN was one of the best WWIII movies ever made. WOLVERINES!!! - -Billy Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:51:21 EST From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: Different eras In a message dated 3/2/00 1:52:59 AM, ronhale@c-zone.net writes: << Not to mention it is the simplest game in the world. Its great for a change of pace. You can make a PC in about 3 minutes, there only 3 stats and you generate them by rolling straight Percentiles. for skills you pick them and roll percentiles to get your skill level. >> I mentioned RECON because I got it for my friend for Xmas. He wanted a wargame (like Twilight:2000), but he's not the type to read tons of rules. I glanced over it in the gamestore, and it looked easy enough. He read it over, and he loves it. We're playing it, for the first time, this Sunday. - -Billy Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:53:56 EST From: Calibur1@aol.com Subject: Re: Different eras In a message dated 3/2/00 4:11:34 AM, snake.eyes@att.net writes: << And the supplement "Advanced RECON" has all kinds of kick-ass info on running Central American & West African merc campaigns, circa 1970's. >> The new edition of RECON includes the Advanced RECON rules. It's too bad that Palladium really doesn't support it. - -Billy Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:28:18 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) what other ww3 films are there, no one has done red storm rising or any of the ian slater seris of books. has there been any other world world films? aaron > I don't care what anyone says. I think RED DAWN was one of the best WWIII > movies ever made. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 15:50:19 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Ts O&E ><< I tend to think the TOE's given from T2k were a bit theoretical. >> > >They were also considerably under strength . . . >Loren Wiseman The TOE's shown in the canon GDW suppliments points something out. The various militaries if given a chance would quickly move to consolidate their forces (nobody wants 300 man divisions) so something has stopped them. Many Higher HQs are mentioned but few are listened to, even though they are fairly near to some rebellious troops. From this I'd assume that the nukes have only just stopped falling, possibly in the last few months. Famine, disease and horrific losses are survivable to command structures. They are in fact designed specifically survive them, but no one has applied the acid test and seen how well an army survives nuking (thank goodness!) I think it's very likely that in the next two years in Europe (2000 - 2002) command elements will reassert themselves and begin to unify the scattered units. This would mean the death knell for many 'charismatic leadership' groups*. When high command gets it's head together and begins to pacify, produce and support these group's shortcomings will appear and their support base will fade away. *Let's get real. Nobody is going to allow someone to call themselves 'Prince', 'Baron' etc. It shows the troops that they'll always be slave soldiers and they'll go over the fence. The more likely titles are 'President', 'Chairman' etc. They seem to offer a chance of advancement, even if illusory. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 21:02:53 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #108 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote: > recently) of 100% pure ground beef. However, that is very loose phraseology. > Because "beef" consists of "any meat coming from a cow". >> > > The FDA has some regulations on this subject. Ground beef has a specific > definition, and I don't think it is "Anything from a cow." Ahem. I seriously think that would be too loose a guideline. ANYTHING from a cow? have you ever been within smell range of a cow? i think you can figure out what im getting at. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:22:36 +1000 From: "Adam Betteridge" Subject: Re: Ts O&E *Let's get real. Nobody is going to allow someone to call themselves 'Prince', 'Baron' etc. It shows the troops that they'll always be slave soldiers and they'll go over the fence. The more likely titles are 'President', 'Chairman' etc. They seem to offer a chance of advancement, even if illusory. Sorry ol buddy but I think you are wrong there, take Australia for example we voted last year to remain a contitutional monarchy rather than a republic because of many reason. One was that it reminds people of the "good old days" now I'm not saying everyone thinks they really are good but alot of people see monarchies as a safer option. Another thing is the people in game who do this sort of thing are generally divisional commanders, they have a variety of levels of underlings to support them, and they will because the old man has kept them safe so far. Also in Europe there are still people who are barons, etc and they are frequently in the military, so soldiers would be used to following such men, I realise that this isn't the case in Soviet armies but generally it seems to be the Polish generals who go all noble on us. Poland has a long history of Nobles serving in the military so I don't think it's that much of a streech really. Cheers Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 23:53:44 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Ts O&E I disagree. I think it was pretty well established that the various military chains of command and logistical networks were obliterated. Re-establishing those organizations requires time and resources that are currently (game time) scarce at best. in addition to the damage suffered by the military structures, the civilian governments and economic infrastructures of most nations were destroyed. Something on the order of half the population has died. I would think the smaller military units would have a better chance of maintaining their cohesion, considering that they are on their own for supplies. Just because the command structure survived doesn't mean it will be able to function at pre-attack levels. It seems more likely to me that a city-state system would slowly emerge and eventually reform into what we consider national governments. As to the likelihood of "princes" and "barons" and such emerging in a semi-feudal environment...well, that almost seems like a given, but also remember that the cultural norms of central Poland do not necessarily match those of Western countries. "Chairmen" and "Presidents" are usually selected through some vaguely democratic process as opposed to seizing power by force. Advancement in a feudal structure depends on loyalty to a warlord or the ability to overthrow same. - -Rob Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > ><< I tend to think the TOE's given from T2k were a bit theoretical. >> > > > >They were also considerably under strength . . . > >Loren Wiseman > > The TOE's shown in the canon GDW suppliments points something out. The > various militaries if given a chance would quickly move to consolidate their > forces (nobody wants 300 man divisions) so something has stopped them. Many > Higher HQs are mentioned but few are listened to, even though they are > fairly near to some rebellious troops. > From this I'd assume that the nukes have only just stopped falling, > possibly in the last few months. > Famine, disease and horrific losses are survivable to command > structures. They are in fact designed specifically survive them, but no one > has applied the acid test and seen how well an army survives nuking (thank > goodness!) I think it's very likely that in the next two years in Europe > (2000 - 2002) command elements will reassert themselves and begin to unify > the scattered units. > This would mean the death knell for many 'charismatic leadership' > groups*. When high command gets it's head together and begins to pacify, > produce and support these group's shortcomings will appear and their support > base will fade away. > *Let's get real. Nobody is going to allow someone to call themselves > 'Prince', 'Baron' etc. It shows the troops that they'll always be slave > soldiers and they'll go over the fence. The more likely titles are > 'President', 'Chairman' etc. They seem to offer a chance of advancement, > even if illusory. > Jim > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 23:58:49 -0700 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) > > > I don't care what anyone says. I think RED DAWN was one of the best WWIII > movies ever made. > > WOLVERINES!!! > > -Billy Bob > ******* As long as you don't live in Colorado I guess Red Dawn is OK, though they did some things that would get them in trouble in real life... the mountains are not the best place to be, all the wildlife by and large is found at lower elevations (Foothills, valleys, etc) and so forth. T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 03:13:13 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Ts O&E At 11:53 PM 3/2/00 -0600, Rob Barnes wrote: >I disagree. I think it was pretty well established that the various military >chains of command and logistical networks were obliterated. Re-establishing >those organizations requires time and resources that are currently (game time) >scarce at best. in addition to the damage suffered by the military >structures, the civilian governments and economic infrastructures of most >nations were destroyed. Something on the order of half the population has >died. I would think the smaller military units would have a better chance of >maintaining their cohesion, considering that they are on their own for >supplies. Just because the command structure survived doesn't mean it will be >able to function at pre-attack levels. It seems more likely to me that a >city-state system would slowly emerge and eventually reform into what we >consider national governments. >As to the likelihood of "princes" and "barons" and such emerging in a >semi-feudal environment...well, that almost seems like a given, but also >remember that the cultural norms of central Poland do not necessarily match >those of Western countries. "Chairmen" and "Presidents" are usually selected >through some vaguely democratic process as opposed to seizing power by force. >Advancement in a feudal structure depends on loyalty to a warlord or the >ability to overthrow same. > Actually, the Polish term for "province", "wojewodztwo", comes from "wojewod", which is something like "war commander" or "warlord"....It's not the modern word for "governor", but it might pop up again in TW:2000. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:52:00 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #108 All very interesting. But where do you think Oxtail soup comes from :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:13:59 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (rant) On Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:49 PM, Carl Roger Nilsen [SMTP:ca-nilse@online.no] wrote: > >>>So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to > >>>game stats? > >> > >>I think 5mm of steel = 1 point of armor, from a table on the protection of > >>various covers. > > > >Yes, this is right, but I'm pretty sure you have to work out what the > >armour thickness is -in the horizontal- to get the right number. So if a > >vehicle has front turret armour consisting of 25mm of plate at an angle of > >30 degrees then this is actually 25mm/cos(30) = 29mm of horizontal armour, > >so approx armour value of 6. > > > Consulting The Book of Armaments Construction (Fire, Fusion & Steel) Book 2: Subsystems, Chapter 1: Material Technology, pg 38: > So sayeth the Holy Vehicle and Craft Construction Materials Table: > [Includeth in brackets are alternate materials by Edward Fok efok@ni.net of the Electrophysics Department of the University of South Carolina, dated 19950331021206PST, found at location http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe/traveller/house/alt_materials.html (note ye, that Futuristic/Theoretical are items of TL9+ (Y2k+)] > (In order Lowest to Highest Toughness) > (Toughness*thickness(cm)=Armor Value) > (Mass=tonnes (1,000kg's) per cubic meter of material) > > Fiberglass, Toughness 0.25, Mass 1 > > [Glass Composite, Toughness 0.75, Mass 1.9; Fiberglass] > > [Aluminum Alloy, Toughness 1, Mass 2.7] > > [Improved Aluminum Alloy, Toughness 1.1, Mass 2.6] > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Aluminum Lithium Alloy, Toughness 1.1, Mass 2.4; Spray deposition alloy] > > [Metallic Laminate, Toughness 1.2, Mass 3.6; Structure composed of combination of Aluminum, Titanium and Steel] > > Iron, Toughness 1.5, Mass 8 > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Metal Matrix Composite, Toughness 1.6, Mass 2.6; 2-D graphite reinforced Aluminum alloy] > > Soft Steel, Toughness 1.7, Mass 8 [7.8] > > Light Alloy, Toughness 1.7, Mass 6 > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Advanced Metallic Laminate, Toughness 1.8, Mass 4; High proportion of Titanium in compound material structure] > > Hard Steel, Toughness 2, Mass 8 [7.8] > > [Super Steel Alloy, Toughness 2.5, Mass 7.8; Inconel, Hastalloy, etc.] > > [Titanium Alloy, Toughness 2.5, Mass 4.9] > > [Advanced Titanium Alloy, Toughness 2.6, Mass 4.7; Beta phase Titanium alloys] > > Titanium Alloy, Toughness 3, Mass 8 > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Ceramic Laminated Composite (CLC), Toughness 3.6, Mass 1.8; Layered graphite composite and ceramic sheets] > > Light Composite, Toughness 4, Mass 7 > Know then, that these LC's representeth a variety of additional nonmetallic structural materials, such as graphite, boron-carbide, etc. > > [Graphite Composite, Toughness 5, Mass 2.1; 2-D weaved graphite sheets] > > Composite Laminate, Toughness 6, Mass 8 > Know then, that these are matrices of different metallic and nonmetallic materials arrangethed to make the most of each material's strengths, including the mesh of depleted uranium in the composite armor usethed by certain US MBTs. > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Laminated Composite, Toughness 6.25, Mass 2.4125; 2-D graphite laminate] > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Boron Composite, Toughness 7, Mass 2; 2-D weaved boron filament sheets] > > [Metalic Laminate, Toughness 7.75, Mass 11.13; Uranium reinforced armor] > > The next step in armor according to the table is Crystaliron, Toughness 8, Mass 10, which is a ferrous metal with perfect crystal structure and carefully controlled impurities in order to gain maximum hardness and toughness, but this is way ahead in the future, according to GDW canon. > > > > So sayeth the Holy Construction Materials Table: > Loose Dirt, Toughness 0.04 > Stone, Packed Dirt, Toughness 0.2 > Wood, Toughness 0.2 > Masonry (not necessarily Masonic Lodge members, but you'lst never knowest), Toughness 0.3 > > > So sayeth the Holy Common Forms of Cover Table: > Sandbag (Thickness 25cm), AV1 > 2" Wooden Plank (5cm), AV1 > Timber House Wall (20cm), AV 4 > Cinder Block Wall (30cm), AV9 > Stone Wall (30cm), AV6 > Thick Stone Wall (60cm), AV12 > Reinforced Concrete (25cm), AV10 > Tree Trunk (60cm), AV12 > Brick Wall (10cm), AV3 > Thick Brick Wall (30cm), AV9 > Thick D**k Wall (not thick enough), AV0 ]:-# > Thick Penguin Wall (40cm), AV2 > > > Consulting the Book of Armaments Construction, Book 1: Major Systems, Chapter 2: Ground Vehicle Design, pg 18: > Moderate slope (30 degrees) increases effective AV of a face by 50 percent. > Radical slope (60 degrees) increases effective AV of a face by 100 percent. > Sloping armor doth not add to either the weight or price of the vehicle, but does subtract from its volume. > Front or rear: Moderate -10 percent, Radical -20 percent. > Sides (both): Moderate -20 percent, Radical -40 percent. > Under: N/A, the vehicle would look too stupid. > Top: N/A, the vehicle would in addition to looking stupid, not be able to enter tunnels. > > Fire, Fusion and Steel, though clogged with errata, is about the best investment money can buy (for GDW games). It's an essential 2nd-hand pickup. Anyway, I'll be posting some kewl guns very soon. > > Here endeth the lesson. > > Amen > > CRN > self-appointed pope > Pungenday, day 62 of Chaos, YOLD: 3166 (chouse) > 221:03:02 (1) > "Never overlook something that seems to be simple" > http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/nosepicking.html > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. Excellent Info!!!!!! Thanks alot Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:44:41 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: A few newbie questions questions are good. the answers, wellllllllllllllll:):) good source for books in ebay.com search gdw and there is sometimes a treasure chest full at "resonable" prices. You've got to be 18 to bid, and have a non"alias" email, so Yahoo etc are out. Good hunting.. and don't hesitate to ask questions. Nobody was born knowing what they know today.. atleast T2K players:) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:36:26 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Ts O&E A major command, to which subordinate units respond, apparently still exists in June 2000. What else would explain the American units (5 Mech, 8 Mech, 2 MAR, etal) following the guidance of 3 German army to "push south and east". It takes more than material resources [which are in limited supply] to mount a campaign and make it successful. There has to be one hell of a charismatic leader some where in the higher commands to keep troops on the push when there is questionable chance of success. Yes, the soldiers for the most part are professionals, but by 2000 there would be many "draftee" replacements. American troops, and draftee's in particular, are the first to ask "WHY?" and the answer better be good to get the most out of them.. By June 2000, most of the troops are probably sick of war.. a conditon that occures from prolonged combat [not usually attributed to REMFs, they just whine about having no luxuries.. to a line doggie, a dry pair of socks IS a luxury, or a hot meal] will be endemic. Only prolonged R&R in secure areas, something I find lacking in T2K environs, will remidy this condition, and then it may not [PTSS]. There is no mention of NATO units under mutiny that I can find [please show where if I'm wrong, I' interested]. I find this hard to swallow by 2000, given the conditions. The picture painted is NATO armies are "paladins", never wavering... RIGHT.. FIRE WHEN READY! ===== FORD Rangers! Lead the Way!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:21:48 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Ts O&E > There has to be one hell of a charismatic leader some > where in the higher commands to keep troops on the push > when there is questionable chance of success. > > Yes, the soldiers for the most part are professionals, but > by 2000 there would be many "draftee" replacements. I would tend to disagree that an outstanding charismatic leader would be a necessity to keep the larger units together. In order for the troops to go AWOL (in any significant numbers) there must be somewhere they can go that is: (1) better than where they are, and (2) worth the risk to get there. The Army provides for their soldiers. If they desert, not only are they under penalty of probably being shot, they will have to fend for themselves. The US soldiers probably know (or are purposely given propaganda to the effect) how bad it is in America with the civil war between the MilGov and CivGov and the invasion. If they desert, they leave the only people they know, the only people that will watch their backs, they will have virtually no friends or allies (who wants to hang out with a bunch of deserters?), and no source of logistical support (except pillage of course). If they desert en-masse as a unit, what are they going to do then? Join the other side? Hide? Attempt to go back to America (and hope that word doesn't make it there that they are deserters)? Setup there own little kingdom in a village and wait for either side to hear about it and come crush them? No matter what they do their screwed, unless they stick together and try to actually beat the oposition. What US unit is going to follow a leader to just 'go rogue' while in Europe? They can't blend in, the population will resent their presense (even more than they already resent ANY unit that shows up and requistions all their food and fuel), and both sides will want to destroy them. He would have to come up with a really good plan on exactly how he was going to make everything better, and actually make his troops buy it, before they would risk becoming rogues. Unless they found out for certain the were going to be given a suicide mission, I can't imagine they would rebel openly. They might not attack their target with much enthusiasm. Some officers might end up getting shot in the back quietly to avoid having to follow their orders. But open revolt? A US unit that was in the US would be a different arguement. But in Poland? I doubt many would risk it. Anyway, thats all the gas I'll throw on the fire... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:38:38 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: Australian Defense Forces : Army [VERY SHORT POST] > Ok well the Army being the Army is the only arm of the defence > forces to be straight to the point. They have an organisational > chart that lists every unit in the order of battle. It doesn't list > the number of personnel or their equipment, but it will have to > do. > Anyone who wants it can email me, I'll attempt to attach the .pdf > file to this email and see if the list gets it. It's 24.3k in size so > don't worry about it too much if you have a slow connection. > Ballistix Just wanted to say thanks to you and everyone else who has been contributing to the conversations on this. Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:35:14 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (rant) On Thursday, March 02, 2000 7:49 PM, Carl Roger Nilsen [SMTP:ca-nilse@online.no] wrote: > > Fiberglass, Toughness 0.25, Mass 1 > > [Glass Composite, Toughness 0.75, Mass 1.9; Fiberglass] > > [Aluminum Alloy, Toughness 1, Mass 2.7] > > [Improved Aluminum Alloy, Toughness 1.1, Mass 2.6] > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Aluminum Lithium Alloy, Toughness 1.1, Mass 2.4; Spray deposition alloy] > > [Metallic Laminate, Toughness 1.2, Mass 3.6; Structure composed of combination of Aluminum, Titanium and Steel] > > Iron, Toughness 1.5, Mass 8 > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Metal Matrix Composite, Toughness 1.6, Mass 2.6; 2-D graphite reinforced Aluminum alloy] > > Soft Steel, Toughness 1.7, Mass 8 [7.8] > > Light Alloy, Toughness 1.7, Mass 6 > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Advanced Metallic Laminate, Toughness 1.8, Mass 4; High proportion of Titanium in compound material structure] > > Hard Steel, Toughness 2, Mass 8 [7.8] > > [Super Steel Alloy, Toughness 2.5, Mass 7.8; Inconel, Hastalloy, etc.] > > [Titanium Alloy, Toughness 2.5, Mass 4.9] > > [Advanced Titanium Alloy, Toughness 2.6, Mass 4.7; Beta phase Titanium alloys] > > Titanium Alloy, Toughness 3, Mass 8 > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Ceramic Laminated Composite (CLC), Toughness 3.6, Mass 1.8; Layered graphite composite and ceramic sheets] > > Light Composite, Toughness 4, Mass 7 > Know then, that these LC's representeth a variety of additional nonmetallic structural materials, such as graphite, boron-carbide, etc. > > [Graphite Composite, Toughness 5, Mass 2.1; 2-D weaved graphite sheets] > > Composite Laminate, Toughness 6, Mass 8 > Know then, that these are matrices of different metallic and nonmetallic materials arrangethed to make the most of each material's strengths, including the mesh of depleted uranium in the composite armor usethed by certain US MBTs. > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Laminated Composite, Toughness 6.25, Mass 2.4125; 2-D graphite laminate] > > [(Futuristic/Theoretical) Boron Composite, Toughness 7, Mass 2; 2-D weaved boron filament sheets] > > [Metalic Laminate, Toughness 7.75, Mass 11.13; Uranium reinforced armor] > > The next step in armor according to the table is Crystaliron, Toughness 8, Mass 10, which is a ferrous metal with perfect crystal structure and carefully controlled impurities in order to gain maximum hardness and toughness, but this is way ahead in the future, according to GDW canon. Just out of curiosity, how do the determine the toughness of this material. Any idea? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:41:01 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. On Thu, 2 Mar 2000 Damage169@cs.com wrote: > I just got to thinking about all the various places McDonald's has gotten > itself into nowadays (Moscow, Peking, even Iran, IIRC) and I wondered about > the type of "meat" they serve in their hamburgers in India. The majority of > the population reveres cows for some reason and get very irked if anyone > suggests eating them. How does McDonald's (or any other Western fast-food > chain) go about dealing with this? I wouldn't think they do deal with it :) Not everyone in India is Hindu however, far from it...there are tons of muslims, sikhs, and christians (most of them eat beef, and on a side note: Hate each other!). Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:43:27 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: SV: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... > You're not a McDonalds employee, by any chance, Ray? Good heavens, no. Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:46:32 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Scott David Orr wrote: > At 08:20 PM 3/2/00 EST, Damage169@cs.com wrote: > >I just got to thinking about all the various places McDonald's has gotten > >itself into nowadays (Moscow, Peking, even Iran, IIRC) and I wondered about > >the type of "meat" they serve in their hamburgers in India. The majority of > >the population reveres cows for some reason and get very irked if anyone > >suggests eating them. How does McDonald's (or any other Western fast-food > >chain) go about dealing with this? > > > They make local adaptation to their menus; I think I heard once that they > have a strong vegetarian menu in India, but I'm not sure. > Here in Canada they serve things like pizzas and other strange stuff. I haven't tried the pizzas, I'm not into it :) I'm sure in Hindu areas, they have alot of chicken, and other alternatives....maybe soy, maybe something wildly different :) Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:59:51 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Severely OT....McDonald's Etc. Actually that's not quite right!! Muslims (as far as I can make out) have a similar food standard like the Jewish Kosher! The muslim kosher is known as Halal. Everything that a good muslim eats must be declared as Halal. (This is a major cause of concern in UK Schools, especially in areas where there are large number of muslims, since Schools have to provide food that is suitable for Muslim dietary standards, as well as for everyone else.) So you might not get too many Muslims going into a McDonalds and ordering a Hamburger!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:03:40 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Game settings (Red Dawn) On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, Fugitivus wrote: > > what other ww3 films are there, no one has done red storm rising or any > of the ian slater seris of books. has there been any other world world > films? > > aaron There are two fairly good ones I can think of off the top of my head. A Soviet/Russian one called "Letters From a Dead Man" (I think...It's been a long time since I saw it). It's a black and white flick...very dark. In the 80's ABC made a made for TV movie called...I can't remember! It starred Henry Fonda though, and took place in Kansas as I recall. Anybody else remember this?...AHA, it was "The Morning After" I think. "On the Beach" a 50's flick about an american submarine crew who go to Austraila and head home to see what's left. The whole slog of Sci-Fi post-fall flicks like "Boy and His Dog", and others to heinous to name. Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #110 *************************************