twilight2000-digest Thursday, March 2 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 108 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's andKangaroo meat- yum... Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's andKangaroo meat- ... Re: Military Link Webpage Re: Different Eras (Was: Mad Max/Australia) RE: A few newbie questions Re: A few newbie questions vehicle conversions RE: Weapon Jamming was Ammo Reloading Re: vehicle conversions (short post) RE: vehicle conversions (short post) RE: vehicle conversions (short post) test. disregard Using Steel Panthers III for TOE Re: vehicle conversions (short post) RE: vehicle conversions (short post) RE: vehicle conversions (short post) Re: Military Link Webpage Re: Military Link Webpage RE: Military Link Webpage RE: vehicle conversions (short post) RE: vehicle conversions (short post) RE: vehicle conversions (short post) RE: vehicle conversions (short post) Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... Re: Military Link Webpage Re: Military Link Webpage Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... Re: Soviet Bloc Allegiences Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 02:12:21 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's andKangaroo meat- yum... Scott David Orr wrote: > At 11:59 PM 3/1/00 -0800, Jesse LaBranche wrote: > > > To my knowledge, McDonalds has use Moose, Caribou, Reindeer, > >Cottontail Deer, American Cow, Buffalo, Bison, Zebu, and Kangaroo in their > >"hamburgers" right along with Texas Longhorns (Just wanted to make sure > >you guys didn't feel left out ;-). > > > >From what I've heard, this is an urban legend that's been making the rounds > of the Internet for years, and it's not really true. Actually, there's a > website where you can check out the veracity of various urban legends, but > I'm cannot recall were it is. > > Scott Orr Its the site for the darwin awards. not sure of the address and way too tired and busy to look *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:14:38 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's andKangaroo meat- ... Since it was my joke (yes it was a joke folks!!) that started this whole McDonald's thing in the first place here are a couple of URLs for Urban Legends (I'm not sure that they are actually current. But here they are anway!!) http://www.snopes.com http://www.urbanlegends.com And for those of you with access to the Newsgroups alt.folklore.urban Right there we go!! Hope this helps!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:24:46 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Military Link Webpage Ah yes. Dropbears the great Australian Legend!! Much like the Greater and Lesser Spotted Haggis!! :-) (What did you all honestly think that Haggis was minced sheep innards served in the stomach of a sheep. Naaah!! :-)) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 07:33:56 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Different Eras (Was: Mad Max/Australia) Jesse, I saw a new copy of Recon on the shelf at my local game store yesterday. I think it is still available...but you might have to order it. Palladium Games makes it, I think. They probably have a web site. - -Rob Jesse LaBranche wrote: > > Also, please- check on that Recon game. Never really took a look at > it when you could find it about. Even if he doesn't want to sell it- I could > probably ask you what they say in there, eh? > > Later. > > Jesse. > vanquer@email.msn.com > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:32:52 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: A few newbie questions On Wednesday, March 01, 2000 10:29 PM, Fugitivus [SMTP:cell-66@softhome.net] wrote: > hi there > > it all depends on what style of game you want to run. but personlly i > feel any of the equipment guides are good. especially the small arms guide > which i have found to be the most useful. > the tank guides are good, they are excellent for adding choice and > deapth to the game. > > i have never seen the naval/aviation or the heavy weapons guides. but they > can add a new element to the game. > > aaron > > > I only have the main book, "Twilight encounters", "Airlords of the Ozarks" > and the second part of the adventure in Texas. I do know a guy that thinks > he has "Merc:2000" and something like "Bangkok Cesspool of the Orient" he > said if he can find then he'll just give them to me. Are there any "Can't > live without" books I should look for? > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. Are these books still in production? I haven't seen them for some time. KEvin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:48:39 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: Re: A few newbie questions nope twilight is a dead game. the only thing keeping it alive are lists like this one and the die hard pockets of players. there seems to still be a reasonable amount of interest in the game, but the company that owns the rights has done nothing with it. there are still companys selling 2nd hand books if you can find them. aaron > Are these books still in production? I haven't seen them for some time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:03:59 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: vehicle conversions Hi I am new to the list, and I need a way to take basic information on weapons and vehicles and convert them to game stats. How do you guys go about this? Thanks Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:53:09 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: Weapon Jamming was Ammo Reloading On Monday, February 28, 2000 8:21 PM, Ballistix [SMTP:clewis@wantree.com.au] wrote: > Carbon build-up affects semi-auto and automatic weapons, mostly > via a build up of carbon in the gas system (those recocked by gas > system that is). The build up of the carbon reduces the amount of > gas to the piston and so the weapon has a gas stoppage, and no > round is ejected. The in effect reduces the semi/auto to a bolt action > weapon, unless you have a variable gas setting (which most have). > > Carbon also builds up in the barrel. So regardless of whether a weapon > is bolt/semi/auto too much carbon build up can result in a round being > jammed in the barrel. If you fire another it can impact the first jamming > as well or if the pressure build up is too great a barrel breach. You DO > NOT want one of these. I've seen an old WWII smg with 9 rounds jammed > down the barrel before the barrel breached. It looks like a mini hand > grenade has gone off inside it. You can then think about what happened to > the guys near it when it exploded. > > Ballistix > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. I was at a gun show recently and one of the tables had a pistol (I don't remember what it was) that had been cut away to show 6 bullets jammed in the barrel. It was taken from a Vietnamese soldier. It was amazing it had not breached. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:33:25 -0700 From: Rogue09@Sprynet.com Subject: Re: vehicle conversions (short post) Kevin O'Dell wrote: > Hi > I am new to the list, and I need a way to take basic information on weapons > and vehicles and convert them to game stats. How do you guys go about this? > Well I've done both and generally I like to have a good chunk of stats on the weapons or vehicles from sources such as Janes and others... not always perfect info or complete but it gives you a starting point. From there you can compare what your trying to convert to exsisting stats in any of the Twilight sourcebooks and do it that way. Armor is often the hardestpart to determine as the sources open to us typically don't list info on it, so in that case you have to look at exsisting models similiar to the one your working on and go from there. > > Thanks > Kevin Hope this helps T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:05:49 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) On Thursday, March 02, 2000 11:33 AM, Rogue09@Sprynet.com [SMTP:Rogue09@Sprynet.com] wrote: > > > Kevin O'Dell wrote: > > > Hi > > I am new to the list, and I need a way to take basic information on weapons > > and vehicles and convert them to game stats. How do you guys go about this? > > > > Well I've done both and generally I like to have a good chunk of stats on the > weapons or vehicles from sources such as Janes and others... not always > perfect info or complete but it gives you a starting point. From there you can > compare what your trying to convert to exsisting stats in any of the Twilight > sourcebooks and do it that way. Armor is often the hardestpart to determine as > the sources open to us typically don't list info on it, so in that case you > have to look at exsisting models similiar to the one your working on and go > from there. > > > > > > Thanks > > Kevin > > Hope this helps > > T.R. > > ********************************************************************** ***** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to game stats? Have you ever played Traveller? They have a book called Fusion, Fire, and Steel. It is used to create everything form Star ships to Hand guns. Some one has created a spread sheet in excel that makes this all easier. I was wondering if there was a way to take the information generated in that and convert it to t2k game stats. Sorry for asking a million questions. Thanks Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:28:40 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) >So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to >game stats? I think 5mm of steel = 1 point of armor, from a table on the protection of various covers. >Have you ever played Traveller? They have a book called Fusion, >Fire, and >Steel. It is used to create everything form Star ships to >Hand guns. Some >one has created a spread sheet in excel that makes >this all easier. I was >wondering if there was a way to take the >information generated in that and >convert it to t2k game stats. If you are playing t2k v2.x, you don't need to convert -- Traveller: The New Era used the same mechanics as T2K v2.x (TNE used 1d20 skill rolls, while these weren't added to T2K until V2.2, but otherwise, equipment for one game can be used in another. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:30:30 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: test. disregard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:39:16 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Using Steel Panthers III for TOE The computer game Steel Panthers III lists men and equipment for many nations at battalion level and lower. It differs a bit from the TOE given in the T2K vehicle guides, but does list the number of men to a platoon and heavy weapon teams (MGs, mortars and AT rockets) assigned to units. On a related note, does anyone know the general makeup of a HQ section at company and/or batallion level? A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:56:51 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: vehicle conversions (short post) >So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to >game stats? I could swear in for the 2nd edition it was one point of armor was equivalent to 5mm of hardened armor plate and 1mm in the 1st edition. I think it may have been listed in the American Combat Vehicle handbook. I should have it for both editions lying around somewhere. >Have you ever played Traveller? They have a book called Fusion, Fire, and >Steel. It is used to create everything form Star ships to Hand guns. Some >one has created a spread sheet in excel that makes this all easier. I was >wondering if there was a way to take the information generated in that and >convert it to t2k game stats. > Well the publisher claims the stats are the same and FFS was used to design a supplement about early 21st centuary warefare which unfortunately was never published before GDW folded. Too bad it looked like it was going to be really good too. For myself I tried my hand at that once and I may not have been completely accurate but I remember trying to make a tank with similar stats as the M1A1 and ended up with a vehicle that weighed over 100 tons. Of course I may have gotten some detail wrong that caused the weight of the tank to spiral out of control. I do find the small arms rules to be useful for generating some pretty interesting weapons though. There's also a conversion table listed in the back of Infantry Weapons of the world for converting real world weapons to game stats if you can find out info such as the muzzle velocity etc. Regards, JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:04:49 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) On Thursday, March 02, 2000 1:57 PM, JC [SMTP:jc173@gci-net.com] wrote: > >So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to > >game stats? > > I could swear in for the 2nd edition it was one point of armor was > equivalent > to 5mm of hardened armor plate and 1mm in the 1st edition. I think it may > have been listed in the American Combat Vehicle handbook. I should > have it for both editions lying around somewhere. > > >Have you ever played Traveller? They have a book called Fusion, Fire, and > >Steel. It is used to create everything form Star ships to Hand guns. Some > >one has created a spread sheet in excel that makes this all easier. I was > >wondering if there was a way to take the information generated in that and > >convert it to t2k game stats. > > > Well the publisher claims the stats are the same and FFS was used to > design a supplement about early 21st centuary warefare which > unfortunately was never published before GDW folded. Too bad it > looked like it was going to be really good too. For myself I tried my > hand at that once and I may not have been completely accurate > but I remember trying to make a tank with similar stats as the M1A1 > and ended up with a vehicle that weighed over 100 tons. Of course > I may have gotten some detail wrong that caused the weight of the > tank to spiral out of control. I do find the small arms rules to be useful > for generating some pretty interesting weapons though. There's > also a conversion table listed in the back of Infantry Weapons > of the world for converting real world weapons to game stats > if you can find out info such as the muzzle velocity etc. > > Regards, > > JC > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. Thanks for all the info. It helps alot Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:47:03 +1300 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) At 11:28 2/03/00 PST, you wrote: >>So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to >>game stats? > >I think 5mm of steel = 1 point of armor, from a table on the protection of >various covers. Yes, this is right, but I'm pretty sure you have to work out what the armour thickness is -in the horizontal- to get the right number. So if a vehicle has front turret armour consisting of 25mm of plate at an angle of 30 degrees then this is actually 25mm/cos(30) = 29mm of horizontal armour, so approx armour value of 6. Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:32:01 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Military Link Webpage >Ah yes. Dropbears the great Australian Legend!! Much like the Greater and >Lesser Spotted Haggis!! :-) > >(What did you all honestly think that Haggis was minced sheep innards served >in the stomach of a sheep. Naaah!! :-)) Sheep guts! That's just a joke the Scots tell us and we all fell for it. Jim (Och Aye!) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 15:39:42 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Military Link Webpage Well it makes for a better story than having to go out in the early morning, in the chilly Highlands shooting Haggises (or should that be Haggi :-)) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:46:19 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: Military Link Webpage On Thursday, March 02, 2000 2:40 PM, CMarkChester@aol.com [SMTP:CMarkChester@aol.com] wrote: > Well it makes for a better story than having to go out in the early morning, > in the chilly Highlands shooting Haggises (or should that be Haggi :-)) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------- > "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a > medical name for it!" > "Yes it's called cowardice" > (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------- > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. Ok I am probablly going to regret asking this :o) What is a Haggi? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:42:01 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) On Thursday, March 02, 2000 1:47 PM, Andrew Tiffany [SMTP:atiff@physics.otago.ac.nz] wrote: > At 11:28 2/03/00 PST, you wrote: > >>So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to > >>game stats? > > > >I think 5mm of steel = 1 point of armor, from a table on the protection of > >various covers. > > Yes, this is right, but I'm pretty sure you have to work out what the > armour thickness is -in the horizontal- to get the right number. So if a > vehicle has front turret armour consisting of 25mm of plate at an angle of > 30 degrees then this is actually 25mm/cos(30) = 29mm of horizontal armour, > so approx armour value of 6. > > > Cheers > > Andrew Tiffany > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. I was just going to ask about angled armor. Thank you very much. I have only been on this list for 2 days now and it has already proved more helpful than any other list I have joined. Thanks everyone. Also some one wrote about a WWII Rpg sim. Is there any openings in that? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:54:06 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) >From: Andrew Tiffany > >At 11:28 2/03/00 PST, you wrote: > >>So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to >game stats? > > > >I think 5mm of steel = 1 point of armor, from a table on the protection >of various covers. > >Yes, this is right, but I'm pretty sure you have to work out what the >armour thickness is -in the horizontal- to get the right number. So if a >vehicle has front turret armour consisting of 25mm of plate at an angle of >30 degrees then this is actually 25mm/cos(30) = 29mm of horizontal armour, >so approx armour value of 6. > Since some (many?) vehicle descriptions might not list the slope, you might want to fudge things a little and use 30 degrees for a modest slope and 60 degrees for a geavy slope (of course, you'd need a good picture of the vehicle for this). A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:03:25 -0600 From: "Kevin O'Dell" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) On Thursday, March 02, 2000 2:54 PM, Brandon Cope [SMTP:copeab@hotmail.com] wrote: > >From: Andrew Tiffany > > > >At 11:28 2/03/00 PST, you wrote: > > >>So there is no set formula for converting the thickness of the armor to > >game stats? > > > > > >I think 5mm of steel = 1 point of armor, from a table on the protection > >of various covers. > > > >Yes, this is right, but I'm pretty sure you have to work out what the > >armour thickness is -in the horizontal- to get the right number. So if a > >vehicle has front turret armour consisting of 25mm of plate at an angle of > >30 degrees then this is actually 25mm/cos(30) = 29mm of horizontal armour, > >so approx armour value of 6. > > > > Since some (many?) vehicle descriptions might not list the slope, you might > want to fudge things a little and use 30 degrees for a modest slope and 60 > degrees for a geavy slope (of course, you'd need a good picture of the > vehicle for this). > > A generous and sadistic GM, > > Brandon Cope > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. Thanks again for the info Does anyone know of an online version of the T2K rules or are they still covered by copyright laws even though they are no longer published *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:08:52 -0700 From: "Tom Opgenorth" Subject: RE: vehicle conversions (short post) > > tank to spiral out of control. I do find the small arms > rules to be useful > > for generating some pretty interesting weapons though. There's > > also a conversion table listed in the back of Infantry Weapons > > of the world for converting real world weapons to game stats > > if you can find out info such as the muzzle velocity etc. Another product that I found useful was Guns, Guns, Guns v3 (3G3) from Blacksburg Tactical Resource Center (http://www.btrc.net). You can use it to design weapons for most gaming systems out there or to convert current weapons. I tried using the rules from Infantry Weapons of the World and compared the results to a similar design from 3G3. Sometimes things were different, but by far & large they were pretty close. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:30:36 +1000 From: "Adam Betteridge" Subject: Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... McDonalds also runs a guarantee (or at least they used to- haven't checked recently) of 100% pure ground beef. However, that is very loose phraseology. Because "beef" consists of "any meat coming from a cow". Here in Australia they use 100% Australian Beef for there Hamburgers, now what they don't tell people is that 100% Australian Beef is the name of the company that makes the meat. What goes into it is anybodies guess but I sure it isn't all beef, probably alot of mutton in it as well as roo etc. I wouldn't be surprised at what's in the stuff. Cheers Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:34:57 EST From: CMarkChester@aol.com Subject: Re: Military Link Webpage Haggi is probably the more grammatically correct term for the plural of Haggis. A Haggis is a small 6 legged creature that lives in the wilds of Scotland. These creatures are often hunted and cooked on special occassions (such as Burns Night) There are two varieties a lesser spotted and a greater spotted type. I hope this answers your question. (Of course you believe me don't you ;-)) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- "I can't go in there. I have a problem with confined spaces. Theres a medical name for it!" "Yes it's called cowardice" (Villa talking to Jenna - Blake's 7) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ----------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:46:07 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Military Link Webpage >Haggi is probably the more grammatically correct term for the plural of >Haggis. A Haggis is a small 6 legged creature that lives in the wilds of >Scotland. These creatures are often hunted and cooked on special occassions >(such as Burns Night) There are two varieties a lesser spotted and a greater >spotted type. > >I hope this answers your question. (Of course you believe me don't you ;-)) The weapons used in hunting Haggis are strictly regulated, my dad always averred that only a three prong pitchfork was permitted. Still, rumours abound of the feared Haggis Gun used by Haggis Poachers, although who could eat poached haggis is a mystery. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:56:51 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... > McDonalds also runs a guarantee (or at least they used to- haven't checked > recently) of 100% pure ground beef. However, that is very loose phraseology. > Because "beef" consists of "any meat coming from a cow". > > Here in Australia they use 100% Australian Beef for there Hamburgers, now what > they don't tell people is that 100% Australian Beef is the name of the company > that makes the meat. What goes into it is anybodies guess but I sure it isn't > all beef, probably alot of mutton in it as well as roo etc. I wouldn't be > surprised at what's in the stuff. > This sounds suspiciously like the "100% Pure Beef" (as a name of a company) legend which runs around in North American vegetarian circles. Has anybody seen the myth about the genetically altered, tube feed, beakless, featherless, chickens KFC raises? You can't believe everything you read or hear. ;) When you think about it, a "secret" practice like altering the actual makeup of meat products on that level (I'm talking about substitution when people think they are consuming something entirely different...not hormone or steriod treatment which is legal and accepted by the FDA in the US) would be crushing for a food franchise...especially these days when there is so much media and public attention turreted on these companies. It is illogical that they would engage in such practices, as it has the potential to cause more financial harm then profit. I have however seen the accepted levels of contamination of foods for the FDA...molds, insects, droppings, etc. Since food production *cannot* be sterile, there has to be some contamination. Food for thought. Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 22:01:35 -0000 From: "Mark Oliver" Subject: Re: Soviet Bloc Allegiences <<< As someone who studies Poland, this doesn't ring true with me: >>> That's presumeably Poland as it is now. The T2K background has a Poland under communist rule with the public being fed the appropriate propoganda. <<< at themoment at least, the Poles are a lot more scared of the Russians than of the Germans. >>> Again I point to the situation that the game designers created. The world as it is now hardly seemed possible 15 or 20 years ago. The Poles are "used" to being "friends" with the Russians, it's the Status quo. Suddenly Germany renunites using military force and the situation changes very rapidly. During unpredictable times it's easy for old fears and stereotypes to come into play. Some of this may even have been egged on a bit by some Soviet Propoganda feeding the publics nightmares of a return of the Germans. Remember since WW2 the Soviets have been portrayed as the liberators of Poland. While that may not totally remove the fear and hatred that the Poles have for them it make make them a tenable ally in the fight against the Germans. Remember once again this is not the Poles fighting for the Russians but the Poles fighting with the Russians against the Germans. I'm sure that the background notes in the v1 game even make a point of people being surprised how much of a fight the Poles put up. <<< shortly after the Soviet invasion, several thousand Polish leaders (officers, politicians, professionals, cadets) in the eastern part of the country were rounded up, executed, and dumped in an unmarked mass grave. The Soviet Union denied that the incident had ever occurred (or blamed it on the Nazis) until just a few years ago. >>> They blamed it on the Nazis. They built a great big memorial on the site of the massacre, it certainly wasn't "denied" as such it just had the blame diverted. Also note that the truth about what happened didn't really come up until after fall of the Soviet Union. To the bulk of the Poles that Germans were still the guilty party. It wasn't such an unsubstantiated belief either given the other well publicised activites of the German armed forces. <<< The upshot is that, by this time, the Poles regard the more recent enemy, the Russians, as the real enemy--the Germans are democratic, rich, and willing to welcome them into the European Union. >>> This isn't the Germany that we know today it would have been a Germany united again under military force. The Soviets may well have been viewed as a long term and persistant enemy who the Poles wanted rid off. The Germans however suddenly appear again as a threat rising, one that could possibly be snipped in the bud now. Once the Poles deal with that issue then maybe they'll be better placed to deal with the longer term problem of the Russians. Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 17:09:57 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Severely OT, but while we're on the topic- McDonald's and Kangaroo meat- yum... At 01:56 PM 3/2/00 -0800, Ray Wiberg wrote: >This sounds suspiciously like the "100% Pure Beef" (as a name of a >company) legend which runs around in North American vegetarian circles. > >Has anybody seen the myth about the genetically altered, tube feed, >beakless, featherless, chickens KFC raises? You can't believe everything >you read or hear. ;) > >When you think about it, a "secret" practice like altering the actual >makeup of meat products on that level (I'm talking about substitution >when people think they are consuming something entirely >different...not hormone or steriod treatment which is legal and >accepted by the FDA in the US) would be crushing for a food >franchise...especially these days when there is so much media and public >attention turreted on these companies. It is illogical that they would >engage in such practices, as it has the potential to cause more financial >harm then profit. > It should be added to that that in industrialized countries, a company cannot legally call something "beef" if it doesn't come from cattle--"beef" is not legally defined as "the meat of cows" but rather as "the meat of cattle"; and for that matter, even if ther were no such regulations, a company could be sued for fraud if its advertising, while technically true, was intentionally misleading (if you don't believe me, there's a case in court right now where the various states in the U.S. are suing Publisher's Clearing House and their ilk for deceiving dumb people into thinking that buying their products will improve their chances of winning free sweepstakes). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #108 *************************************