twilight2000-digest Tuesday, February 29 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 105 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Different eras (well, guns, actually) Re: Beer back on topic :) Re: Alternative Fuels RE: Different eras (well, guns, actually) RE: Alternative Fuels Re: Different eras (well, guns, actually) Re: Ammo Reloading RE: Different eras (well, guns, actually) Re: Ammo Reloading Re: Beer back on topic :) Re: Alternative Fuels Re: Beer back on topic :) Re: Alternative Fuels Alternative fuels Re: Ammo Reloading Re: Beer back on topic :) Re: Different eras (well, guns, actually) Re: Beer back on topic :) Re: Alternative Fuels Alternative fuels FOSSIL FUELS (Was Beer back on topic :) RE: Different eras Re: FOSSIL FUELS (Was Beer back on topic :) Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #104 Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #103 Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #103 Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #104 Re: Beer back on topic :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:29:02 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Different eras (well, guns, actually) At 02:24 PM 2/29/00 -0800, Corey Wells wrote: > > >>>> "In my T2k, all Poles have moustaches. Well, not he women" >> >> And why pray tell should you discriminate against half the >> population? :):):) > > >Actually, I was thinking of saying that "In my T2K, all Poles have >moustaches. Well, at least the women do..." > Have you met any Polish women up close? A lot of them are really hot. :) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:31:43 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Beer back on topic :) At 05:35 PM 2/29/00 EST, CMarkChester@aol.com wrote: >Actually all of this stuff about the Indians cornering the market for >Substitute Fuel is in fact very old news. I can remember many years ago (I >believe it was around the early to mid 80's) that Brazil was in fact the very >first country to experiment with using subsitute fuel. The fuel used in this >case was an alcohol based derivative (using Sugar Cane) So this has been >going on for years, however it never seems to take off (Hey!! This is a good >topic for Conspiracy Theorists :-)) > What usually happens is that alternative fuels research gets popular when oil prices are high, but then when they fall it's abandoned again (just like the energy-saving measures adopted by the U.S. in the 1970's during the oil crisis). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:38:37 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Alternative Fuels At 05:57 PM 2/29/00 EST, CMarkChester@aol.com wrote: >All this stuff about Methane reminds me of the Old Joke!! - > >Save Natural Gas >Collect your farts :-) > >(Sorry for the break in reality!!) > You do realize that cow farts contain methane? :) In all seriousness, people have been worried about cows as a source of global warming, because methane's an even worse greenhouse gas than CO2. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:37:52 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: RE: Different eras (well, guns, actually) >>At 02:24 PM 2/29/00 -0800, Corey Wells wrote: >>Actually, I was thinking of saying that "In my T2K, all Poles have >>moustaches. Well, at least the women do..." >From: Scott David Orr >Have you met any Polish women up close? A lot of them are really hot. :) I'm on Scott's side on this one -I'm definitely a ski fan! Abel [parogi(sic)lover] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:38:39 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: RE: Alternative Fuels the basics are for black powder. I too am not sure of the makings of "smokeless" gunpowder except to day sulfur and nitrate are precursors AND smokeless powder will go BOOM, that's why it's used in the manufacture of munitions. It IS more stable than black powder. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 16:40:32 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Different eras (well, guns, actually) ROGER THAT __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 08:18:32 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: Ammo Reloading Oh except for the fact that I wouldn't be trying to make caseless ammo as only H&K know how to make the casing. > Since I'm rambling now, I'll add a little off-topic tid-bit. On a show > called 'American Shooter' the other day, this expert marksman guy named Bob > Munden shot a 9 inch diameter ballon with a .454 Casul pistol at 200m. > Then, to show that it wasn't really that hard, he pulled out a .38 sub-nosed > revolver (a 1" barrel) and shot 3 for 3 at the same range! Now, of course, > they completely left out the part about how long he probably practiced and > measured bullet drop etc (or hell, he might have all the bullet drop tables > memorized for that matter), but still it was very impressive. In T2K they > would never even let you attempt the shot, much less have a snowballs chance > in hell of hitting. Anyway, they claim these shots aren't staged. Yeah but anyone can hit a barrel when it doesn't move with practice yes? Unfortunately not many people tend to like being shot, so they try a little harder to get out of the way. I have no idea why, it spoils all those great head shots my characters would get. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:18:07 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: RE: Different eras (well, guns, actually) Ah yes, I too love pierogi. There are many fine gals in Poland, and the people have taken a bad rap with the Polish jokes.. I stand chastised for my moustach remarks. Has anyone check out the Polish web sites call Find a Friend. I think everyone in Poland has a site:).. It's also a good source for names:) for those of us that do not speak the language. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:36:59 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Ammo Reloading >Yeah but anyone can hit a barrel when it doesn't move with practice yes? >Unfortunately not many people tend to like being shot, so they try a little >harder to get out of the way. I have no idea why, it spoils all those great >head shots my characters would get. > >Ballistix In my games the players rarely see the enemy. Furtive flickers of movement, occasional muzzle flashes and weapon reports are their chief targets. They're starting to learn that fire superiority is a better bet (if you have the ammo), force COOL rolls on the the enemy and flank them. Suppress the black hats and your buddy can lob a grenade on them. They rarely fight on a cheery summers day either, it does rain a lot as well as snow etc. This all cuts visbility. My players are always tired, at least fatigue level 2. If they can lounge around they will starve in winter, it's a given in my campaign. Too tired to make good observation rolls. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:50:58 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Beer back on topic :) > Actually all of this stuff about the Indians cornering the market for > Substitute Fuel is in fact very old news. I can remember many years ago (I > believe it was around the early to mid 80's) that Brazil was in fact the very > first country to experiment with using subsitute fuel. The fuel used in this > case was an alcohol based derivative (using Sugar Cane) Funny way to put that, cornering the market. One of my points was, that with biofuels, there couldn't be a corning of the fuel market. My thing about: India, again?! was because of my earlier reply to the rodent issue in Australia -- the one I knew about was in India. Anyhow, it's true about it going on for years... Like I said, Diesel initially intended that biofuels would be used. But, his idea was oils produced from biomatter. Like in the India case, it was oil produced from the nut tree they had. I think part of the problems with alcohol is that it tends to burn hot, doesn't it, and also burns quickly. I know isopropyl and denatured alcohols tend to also evaporate easily... Nevermind the fact that denatured has a nearly invisible flame (could be fun in a game if an accident happens -- well, fun for the GM anyway!) As far as conspiracy: One of the things about conspiracies is that they are supposed to be somewhat hidden. It's well known that the oil industry has a lot at stake in keeping our dependence on fossilized fuels. Not much a conspiracy there. Now, maybe with the case in India or Brazil, could be something about the Powers-That-Be trying to keep the poor people down. But in India, it's been successful so far, and has spread to other villages in the area of the first project. Don't know. Anyhow, conspiracies belong in the Dark Conspiracy forum (don't they?) Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:55:02 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Alternative Fuels Subject: Alternative Fuels > I saw somewhere on TV about buried landfills producing a significant amount > of methane after a certain age, or something like that... It was some > 'green' thing about putting our landfills to use... > > Does anyone know how much methane can be collected from an old landfill? Or > from a pig farm? > Remember, I think it was one of the Mad Max films (Road Warrior I think) that they used methane... Wasn't it? Now that I think about it, it was an American made post-Apocalypse film... Some blonde guy with a motorcycle... Not as good as the Mad Max films, but I remember he made fuel from quote: "Chicken shit..." His cycle was running on some sort of methane fuel... OCR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 17:58:14 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Beer back on topic :) > Alternative fuel [read biofuels] is not new. It's a matter > of economics as to whether it will "take off" or not. THe > Indians ues bio fuel because it's locally available and > renewable resource.. Same with the Brazilians.. If the fuel > prices continue to climb in USA you'll see a renewed > interst in the US also. > __________________________________________________ Exactly... And as far as a Diesel type fuel, it already would be more economical to use a nut-oil instead of fossilized fuels... Should drop prices down below $1 a gallon, US. After a few years, when production is higher, and more people are using it, might actually stay down despite inflation. Aren't coconuts fatty? Wonder what it would be like to have an engine that runs on coconut milk (not literally, but the extracted oil...) Or even more productive may be Avocado... Some ideas beside seed and vegetable oils... OCR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:20:11 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Alternative Fuels In Bartertown in Mad Max 3: Beyond the Thunderdome they use the methane from pigs yes Corey Wells wrote: > Subject: Alternative Fuels > > > I saw somewhere on TV about buried landfills producing a significant > amount > > of methane after a certain age, or something like that... It was some > > 'green' thing about putting our landfills to use... > > > > Does anyone know how much methane can be collected from an old landfill? > Or > > from a pig farm? > > > > Remember, I think it was one of the Mad Max films (Road Warrior I think) > that they used methane... Wasn't it? Now that I think about it, it was an > American made post-Apocalypse film... Some blonde guy with a motorcycle... > Not as good as the Mad Max films, but I remember he made fuel from quote: > "Chicken shit..." His cycle was running on some sort of methane fuel... > > OCR > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:17:24 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Alternative fuels I think we're past the beer stage (sigh) Any oily seed or fruit can be utilized. Some would take more processing than others making them less desirable, but the real problem in any of them is having enough of the raw material to squeeze. In tropical areas plant life is usually more prolific, whereas in Poland the seed bearing plants would have lower yeilds. Also the variety of plants that are oil producers in northern climes is less. Sunflowers would probably be species of choice in dryer climes, whereas rapeseed and soybeans would follow as choice oilseed crops. Peanuts and cottonseed in warmer climes. A side note on crops such as sunflower and soybeans amoung others is the high protein meal that is left after crushing. It would be used as animal feed [as it is today] or human food [soybean meal textured vegetable protein] There si alot of potential to develope world wide now or in T2K. One thing to remember though is the need to have lubricant also. I know of no subsytitue at present for internal combustion engines for fossil oil. If we used the biooil for fuel, then we could streach the fossil oil to use for lubes. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:28:18 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: Ammo Reloading Oh but save us from a vengeful HOG (Hand of God)[gm]:):) Sounds like real life to me... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:32:02 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Beer back on topic :) > The price that a Western consumer pays for fuel has a lot more to do with > gas taxes than with OPEC--OPEC is responsbiel for _changes_ in prices, so > it's more noticeable. > That's true. I remember thinking that myself. But the thing is, it's been the going ons in the Gulf, and a few incidents at refineries here in California, that have pushed the median price up by at least 35 cents a gallon. > BTW, in TW:2K, for oil or anything else "industrial", it would be _easier_ > to "squeeze the market", rather than harder, because, after the > transportation and communication net has broken down (not to mention the > democratic politics that prevents monopolies from forming), in any given > location, there's likely to be only one producer or distributor within a > reasonable distance (if even one), meaning that it will be a lot easier to > create monopolies. > > Scott Orr Also, somewhat true... Especially if you're still relying on fossil fuels. But since alternatives can be made by just about any biomatter, then no one could control the market on fuel in general. Maybe on ideal fuels (I got the only nut trees, which produce the most effecient fuel, so you'll pay what I say if you want the oil...) If I haven't got much for trade, I'll make do with the sticks and scraps I can gather off the side of the road. The thing with the monopolies, well, only the distributor(s) would stand much a chance at that. Again, Farmer John has the nut trees, but Farmer Ralph has the wheat, Farmer Biff has corn, Farmer Greg has cotton seed, etc. etc. So there would be competition among alternative fuels... I know, they'll produce different burns, but they still end up competing. Classic case is McDonald's and Taco Bell. They don't serve similar items, so they shouldn't be in competition. But they are, if based on nothing but price. My idea is, if a consumer wants a hamburger, he won't go to Taco Bell no matter what. Same goes (well, opposite) if he wants a Taco. But, if he doesn't care what he has, just wants to get as much as he can for a buck, unless it's Sunday or Wednesday, he'll probably go to Taco Bell. Of course, the case with fuel efficiencies would mess with this a bit. But, food also has efficiencies, we just don't usually look at them, though T2K does (remember how much more wild food you must consume, compared to MREs?) So, if a couple different fuels are close to same efficiency, but there is a big enough difference in price, I'm going with the cheaper one. Probably an economic equation in that: Cost:Return... Say, cotton seed is 80% the effeciency of nut oil, but the price is 79% or less then the nut oil, then my overall cost:return ration is favorable to the cottonseed. Like the sticks on the side of the road. Cost me nothing but a little time and work on my part (and whatever I would be trading for fuel would cost about the same) but gives me a 40% effeciency. A decent return in the end. Those were just examples. My understanding, it takes a lot more work to get a comparable amount of fuel from cotton seed as compared to the nut oil. Though, if you start with young trees, you have longer to wait before your first crop. Also, the trees would tend to produce once a year. But if you work it right, with different crops, grains and vegetables could be grown so you have a crop at least every season. So, many things factor into the end result. Now, back to the distributors. Even though there are a couple dozen farmers growing a dozen different types of fuel crops, in an area the size of Poland; it would be possible for as few as three, or even one if he's strong and big enough, distributors to control the trade of the fuel. If there are even just two, though, you'll have competition bringing prices down. Though, with just two, your likely to see "hot" trade wars going on. But if you have three or more, that would tend to keep fighting down. If Dist. A and B are fighting, Distributor C will come in and munch up the market. Even if there are just one or two distributors, or say three working cooperatively (like an OPEC;) it could be a nice campaign for the characters to try and set themselves up as distributors and break into the market. They should be able to do it if they have a few vehicles. Maybe set it so they actually help the farmer bring the crop in, and then market it for him in a way that he'll get a higher percentage of the sales then he would through the existing distributors. And being a small group, they may be able to maneuver around in such a way to keep from being spotted, always being just a step or two ahead of the 'bad guy.' Just some thoughts. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:35:12 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Different eras (well, guns, actually) > > > > > >Actually, I was thinking of saying that "In my T2K, all Poles have > >moustaches. Well, at least the women do..." > > > Have you met any Polish women up close? A lot of them are really hot. :) > > Scott Orr > Actually, not met, but have seen. And I'd agree. They aren't all babushkas. But the idea here was that we were hitting the stereotypes anyhow. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 18:42:08 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Beer back on topic :) > > > What usually happens is that alternative fuels research gets popular when > oil prices are high, but then when they fall it's abandoned again (just > like the energy-saving measures adopted by the U.S. in the 1970's during > the oil crisis). > > Scott Orr > You mean we're not still using those measure? My family never fully stopped using them. And now, I can't consider doing otherwise. But the thing with the oil is: it will be disappearing. Also, there's the issue of pollution, which tends to be a bigger topic in the US than in poorer countries. Big enough that, in California we've enacted legislation forcing the manufacture and "offer" for sale of alternative fueled automobiles. A percentage, I think, of 20%. It's supposed to be 20% of vehicles sold, but the legislation is aimed at the manufacturers and dealers. But, you can't force the consumer to buy them (unless you ban the other choices.) So, what will happen is that 20% of the cars on the lot will be alternatively fueled. It'll be the same cars sitting there as buyers come in and buy fossil fueled vehicles. But it's a start of getting it done. Also, the law hasn't been implemented yet. The timeline keeps getting pushed back. We were suppose to already be at 20% by 2000 (originally, if I remember correctly.) Now's up to like 2005. So, who knows when it will actually be enforced. Maybe after the fossil fuels are all used up. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 15:11:30 +1300 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: Re: Alternative Fuels >Remember, I think it was one of the Mad Max films (Road Warrior I think) >that they used methane... Wasn't it? Now that I think about it, it was an >American made post-Apocalypse film... Some blonde guy with a motorcycle... >Not as good as the Mad Max films, but I remember he made fuel from quote: >"Chicken shit..." His cycle was running on some sort of methane fuel... Actually, it was a movie called "Battletruck" (here, at least), with the bad guys in a big black 18-wheel rig going around the countryside looking out for any way to get some gas. The chief bad guy's daughter ran off and got involved with the 'guy on the bike'. He got his fuel from chicken dung. Made in Central Otago, in New Zealand. At the end of the film the truck gets driven off a cliff. There was a big stink here about the film company not cleaning it up before they left, was still there almost a decade later. Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:49:39 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Alternative fuels Like the train of thought. First case for production is home use to keep the distributor's out, then get into the market.. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 22:52:52 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: FOSSIL FUELS (Was Beer back on topic :) - -----Original Message----- From: Corey Wells But, you can't force the consumer to buy them (unless you ban the other choices.) So, what will happen is that 20% of the cars on the lot will be alternatively fueled. It'll be the same cars sitting there as buyers come in and buy fossil fueled vehicles. But it's a start of getting it done. Also, the law hasn't been implemented yet. The timeline keeps getting pushed back. We were suppose to already be at 20% by 2000 (originally, if I remember correctly.) Now's up to like 2005. So, who knows when it will actually be enforced. Maybe after the fossil fuels are all used up. >This isn't likely to be anytime soon. Since the oil "crisis" in the '70's our estimates of the oil reserves in the U.S. alone has grown by an order of magnitude...30 years of driving and our oil reserves are 10 times what they were during the so called "crisis". Why is that? Well we don't really know how much oil we have or why we seem to have so much more today. One theory I've read is that perhaps oil pockets are more like sponges filled with oil rather than an underground oil-tank, and when we "remove" the oil from a part of the sponge it "fills" back up years later. Also our ability to find and mine oil economically is so much better today than it was 30 years ago. MOST oil reserves in TX are not pumping because it cost Texans *MORE* to run the pump than it is to buy a barrel of imported oil on the open market. (& most U.S. refineries work on cheaper long term contracts for their feed stock.) So why is there so much gas price pressure today? It is seasonal pressure; driving weather is improving across the entire nation, and not just in the southwest. People are starting to add pleasure miles to their driving load and the refineries have not ramped up enough to meet this seasonal demand. Why not? Lot's of reasons; for now let's just say that the refineries will ramp up when their year-old economic models have budgeted their production increases. Think about one other thing: if we are really running out of fossil fuel why do we need legislation to force these so called alternatives? Why does OPEC have to play strong man to their members who want to sell more than their allotted quota? Why do we have enough oil even though we refuse to buy oil from Iraq? (Hint: Because there is plenty to go around.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:28:19 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: RE: Different eras - -----Original Message----- From: OrrinLadd@aol.com [mailto:OrrinLadd@aol.com] I was in a V2.2 T2k pbem set in Vietnam. Very well run and realistic, the GM really did his homework and had real world experience to draw on as well. He sent us a whole equipment list done up on Excel and cut the terms down to 2 years each. >Do you still have a copy of this sheet? Abel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 20:22:59 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: FOSSIL FUELS (Was Beer back on topic :) > their production increases. Think about one other thing: if we are really > running out of fossil fuel why do we need legislation to force these so > called alternatives? Why does OPEC have to play strong man to their members > who want to sell more than their allotted quota? Why do we have enough oil > even though we refuse to buy oil from Iraq? (Hint: Because there is plenty > to go around.) > *************************************************************************** Hey, Abel, the legislation for alternative fueled vehicles isn't about running out of fossil fuels. It's about pollution. I had said that in my posting. Well, it was implied, I'm not sure if I made it clear. And OPEC does it for higher prices, nothing else. But it is also because of reduce stocks. It's about supply and demand. I don't know about the US, except I know we are not pumping all our oil. But I've heard just recently that a couple reserves in the mideast have already gone dry. And couple others are showing signs of giving out. As far as the sponge theory is concerned, it makes a little sense to a point. But, that's only looking at the reservoirs that are being drilled. The oil is still a limited supply, wherever it comes from to "refill" the sponge. So, eventually, they'll still dry out. Still could be many decades, especially with increased efficiency cars and such. But, it's non-forward thinking like that which always gets us in trouble. Why wait until the oil runs out (even if it isn't in our lifetimes) to come up with alternatives? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:32:13 EST From: GDWGAMES@aol.com Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #104 In a message dated 00-02-29 19:27:58 EST, you write: << During the program, they talked about Diesel, gave me the impression that he invented the internal combustion engine. Anyhow, they said that he originally had the idea that biofuels would be used. >> If I recall correctly, the original Diesel engine was built to run off of powdered coal. LKW *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:03:29 +1300 From: "Anson Betts" Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #103 >> Not too hard. >> To get C: Subtract 32 from F, and divide by 1.8 >> To get F: Multiply C by 1.8, and add 32 >> Carl Roger Nilsen > >That's even simpler than the one that I was trying to remember. >Something like 5/9ths or some odd fractional figure. >Thanks Carl. > >Jesse. >vanquer@email.msn.com Sounds like you're thinking of the Miles - Km conversion Miles * 8/5 = Km Km * 5/8 = Miles Anson, I'm not a complete idiot: Some parts are missing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:22:55 +1300 From: "Anson Betts" Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #103 > I am currently trying to work out both a Viet Nam and a WW2 >campaign for future use by the group. They've really expressed >major interest in VN. > I just don't have the knowledge about a lot of this equipment >to set a date/war as to when it was created/distributed. Then >there is a huge amount of equipment that has vanished from the >arsenals over time as well. I used to run a Vietnam game for a while, I had to convert some stuff from Brasseys and Janes to use in the game. It was under the T2K v 1 system, but we fudged the combat system a bit, didn't like having only 2 shots in a revolver... Anyhow, there's a bunch of guns I pulled through, K 50, MAT-49, BAR and stuff. I'll be happy to send the document with them on it to any and all who are interested There's a lot of books out there on the Vietnam era, I found 'The Tunnels of Chu Chi' to be very useful for some VC tactics :) Boy did they lose a few characters, but the funny thing is they didn't mind as it was part of the game. Anson, I'm not a complete idiot: Some parts are missing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:41:02 EST From: GDWGAMES@aol.com Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #104 In a message dated 00-02-29 19:27:58 EST, you write: << Does anyone know how much methane can be collected from an old landfill? Or from a pig farm? >> US Dept of Agriculture used to have a booklet on how to build a methane "digester" for farm use -- we read it as part of the research for the game. There were a number of books on alternative fuels -- main problem with methane isn't making it, it's making it portable. One of the books I read had blueprints for a fitting that would enable you to hook up a standard hand pump to a portable propane tank in order to compress the methane gas. According to the book, it is fairly simple to adapt a standard diesel tractor engine to run on methane (and it gave details). WRT reloaded ammo: There's a scene in Road Warrior where Max loads a shell into a sawed-off double, fires it, and the gun makes this kind of a fart sound -- I always assumed that was a shel reloaded with matchheads by someone who didn't really know what they were doing. LKW *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:54:09 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Beer back on topic :) At 06:32 PM 2/29/00 -0800, Corey Wells wrote: > >Now, back to the distributors. Even though there are a couple dozen farmers >growing a dozen different types of fuel crops, in an area the size of >Poland; it would be possible for as few as three, or even one if he's strong >and big enough, distributors to control the trade of the fuel. If there are >even just two, though, you'll have competition bringing prices down. >Though, with just two, your likely to see "hot" trade wars going on. But if >you have three or more, that would tend to keep fighting down. If Dist. A >and B are fighting, Distributor C will come in and munch up the market. > In undemocratic countries, monopolies are common--the government (such as there is) will often give someone a monopoly right in exchange for a cut of the profits. BTW, with two firms (or even a handful), you usually get an oligopoly (again, often with government connivance). You might have _some_ competition, on occasion, but usually it's the same as a monopoly. >Even if there are just one or two distributors, or say three working >cooperatively (like an OPEC;) it could be a nice campaign for the characters >to try and set themselves up as distributors and break into the market. >They should be able to do it if they have a few vehicles. Maybe set it so >they actually help the farmer bring the crop in, and then market it for him >in a way that he'll get a higher percentage of the sales then he would >through the existing distributors. And being a small group, they may be >able to maneuver around in such a way to keep from being spotted, always >being just a step or two ahead of the 'bad guy.' Right, this could well be a good campaign--the big danger here though is that the _government_ will come after the PC's, not just the other distributors. :) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #105 *************************************