twilight2000-digest Sunday, February 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 101 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects OTP: A little Alaskan humor/information Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects (Long) Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects (Long) Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Weather Effects RE: Game settings Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects guides Rats and Plagues (Australia) RE: Rats and Plagues (Australia) Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) RE: Rats and Plagues (Australia) Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 19:49:12 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Adjusting can be a problem. They claim that persons from warmer climates have trouble adjusting because their "blood is thinner". I don't know if this is so, but having lives in south Texas for the past 10+ years I know the last visit I made to NODAK was COLD to me. It was several years ago in November and the temp was only in the 20's F. I tell people that cold is a relative term. I had forgotten the affects of cold on vehicles. We use to take the batteries from the vehicles in the house at night to keep them warm.. cold will kill them quick. Also I remeber using a cut downn 55 gal drum wioth used oil and gas mixed, set on fire under the crankcase of the tractor we used to feed cattle with in order to thin the oil enough the engine could turn over. The oil would be thicker than molasses, and that was probably 30 weight oil. You don't have as much problem today with mixed grades, but it could be a problem. Mixed grade (ie 5W30) was developed for the colder climates. Also if the cooling system have good antifreeze (ethyglycol usually) in a proper mix, you'll find a chunk of ice atleast and possibly a cracked block. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:00:49 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects > I had forgotten the affects of cold on vehicles. We use to > take the batteries from the vehicles in the house at night > to keep them warm.. cold will kill them quick. Also I > remeber using a cut downn 55 gal drum wioth used oil and > gas mixed, set on fire under the crankcase of the tractor > we used to feed cattle with in order to thin the oil enough > the engine could turn over. The oil would be thicker than > molasses, and that was probably 30 weight oil. You don't > have as much problem today with mixed grades, but it could > be a problem. Mixed grade (ie 5W30) was developed for the > colder climates. Also if the cooling system have good > antifreeze (ethyglycol usually) in a proper mix, you'll > find a chunk of ice atleast and possibly a cracked block. Heh. Can't believe that I forgot to mention the 30 weight oil :-) Jesse. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:12:43 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects CORRECTION: I should have said if the cooling system DOESN'T have antifreeze.. sorry, __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:32:51 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: OTP: A little Alaskan humor/information Okay guys, the thread on survival in the arctic got me to thinking about Alaska again and I thought I'd share a few humorous things with you, so here goes- they might be useful for "flavor" in your T2k campaigns, but are probably not much on topic- just delete now if you're not interested and accept my apologies for wasting band-width. The Alkan highway is a strip of road running from Northern Washington, through Canada and ending in Fairbanks. It was built (during WW2 when the Japanese invaded the Aleutian islands) by the Army Corps of Engineers. The highway was a supply route and considered "susceptible" to bombing runs, thus they built it with a mess of twists and turns to keep losses to a minimum with enemy straffing. (Much like the Burma road). Anyway, a little "poem" was written on a napkin circa.1948 that has become a legend up there, this is how it goes... "Winding in and winding out fills my mind with serious doubt as to whether the foolish lout who built this aweful route was going to hell, or coming out" The Alaska state bird (unofficial) is the "Mesquite Horiblis" which means: "Horrible Mosquito" as they swarm there and legend say that they have been known to carry off pets, small children, and large swarms- small cars. Don't drive a VW in Alaska :-) The Adak national forest (legally registered as such) grows on an island where winds are steadily 30+ mph. A rock in the ocean basically. These Arctic pines reach heights of hundreds of feet in most areas and make up the Tanga national forest near the arctic circle. On Adak, there are a couple thousand of these trees, planted by the military. Unfortunately, the high winds have kept them short and the massive heights of the tallest ones are about 5.5 feet tall. It's the smallest forest in the US and the only one that you can see all the way across at ground elevation level. People in Alaska don't tan- they rust, and Adak is the "birthplace" of the winds with Alaska in general being known as "The land of horizontal rains" Nowhere is the proud American Bald Eagle seen more often. However, one tends to question the regalness of such a bird once you see them picking the leavings out of a garbage dumpster because those are easier prey than the "Alaskan Chickens". The "Alaska chicken" is actually a Raven (Same thing as a crow but tend to be quite a bit larger) except that in Alaska the Ravens get so huge that residents tend to call them chickens because the whole bird you buy in the store is usually smaller. In WW2, milk was shipped to Alaska. In order to save on shipping costs- it was put in molds and frozen. Then shipped without a milk carton in a frozen truck. You'd walk into the store, buy your milk from the freezer without a carton. Take it home and set it in a bowl in the fridge to thaw out. Most people washing the outside of the milk block before doing so. Alaska crosses the international date line making it the furthest state North, East, and West in the US. It is 1/5th the size of the rest of the US. When the Alaska pipeline opened up, many Texans went up to AK to work on it. The experienced labor was more than welcomed in the new state. However, there were many times when a Texan would complain about Alaska becoming a state because it made Texas the 2nd largest in the country. The locals used to say: "Shut up or we'll split in half and make you the third largest state". One day, I sat down and just played with the numbers to see, and if I recall correctly, Alaska could divide into something like five states and be the five largest states in the country. While on Adak, I was walking from the NEX (PX for the Army guys) to my house. The wind was really bad that day and I was picking myself up off the ground with every blast. I watched a near full garbage dumpster at the exchange flip over, then start rolling down the street. Soon after this, a VW Rabbit had been caught turned sideways against the wind and I saw it doing flips as it literally rolled down the street. Just before entering my house, I saw a tractor-trailer creeping down the relatively flat road which turned nearly right in front of my house. I noted how slow it was going and figured that this was extra caution on the part of the driver because of the wind. When the truck got to the turn, it went right off the side of the road and stopped moving. Rushing over to make sure that the driver was alright, I came to the realization that the slight grade in the road had allowed the wind to push the truck along. Later, I found out that the driver had pulled over to the side of the road, went into the exchange to let his destination know he was going to be late and had apparently forgotten to set the brake. Winds on Adak are gusty and people learn to hang onto their car doors when opening or closing them. One day while working up on Bering hill (Admin building and highest point on that side of the island), I saw a new officer getting out of his car- tell he was new because he wasn't holding the door. He had just got out of the car when one of Adak's gusts grabbed hold of his cover (hat) and sent it flying down the street. As he rushed after it, a second blast took the door of his car, ripped it off and firmly planted it in the window of the office of the commanding officer of the island/base. The average crew of an Aircraft Carrier is larger than the actual military staff at Adak was when it was in full operation. With something like 6500 personnel on the island. Well, hope there were a few decent laughs and maybe some sort of inspiration here for you guys as opposed to just a "ramble" on my part :-) Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com ICQ. 30334260 or 8004143 (backup) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:29:35 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects (Long) > Much like a house- the areas closest to the heater will heat first and > the rest of the house will be cooler. Heat is NOT taken from the extremities to > go to the core as many people believe however. Well just to comment on this, the reason your body keeps the heat closest to the core is the fact that the blood vessels closest to your extremities close up (shrink). It's a natural reaction to the cold, to maintain the core temperature. Seeing as your body uses the circulatory system to help with warming and cooling. > When the air temperature near the ground is below freezing and warmer at > higher altitude, rain tends to fall then start freezing as it nears the ground... > Not frozen, but very near it. > As soon as this liquid contacts something- it freezes. While hanging in > the air it has all of the look of a light fog. Ice-mists do nasty things like > instantly coating a windshield, vehicle, or person in a thin layer of ice. Ok most people don't tend to come into contact with this sort of water, unless of course you live with conditions as you explained or your involved in aviation. >From an aviation perspective, the icing described is called "Clear Icing". Mainly associated with clouds, the water droplets are super cooled, so much so that while being a liquid, they will turn to ice on contact with a solid surface. Mainly aircraft frames in aviation. The droplets usually strike the surface and in the instance of aircraft run a small amount as it freezes in a clear layer (hence the name clear ice). In aviation it's deadly as you can't usually see the build up of ice, as opposed to other forms of icing. These layers can build up over time making effectively an ice layer. This would explain your car ice skating on road. If you took the example above, the water in the warmer air above wouldn't come out of it's gaseous form as it is warmer. It would have a tendency to rise as it is warmer. What you seem to describe would be an inversion layer, the warmer air temperature above trapping the cooler air below it allowing for the formation of the ice-mist (i think you called it). I assume that like most fogs that you would also have to have little or no breeze at it would disperse the fog. So it seems you would need a combination of specific weather factors to see it. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:00:53 -0800 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects (Long) > If you took the example above, the water in the warmer air above wouldn't > come > out of it's gaseous form as it is warmer. It would have a tendency to rise > as it > is warmer. What you seem to describe would be an inversion layer, the warmer > air temperature above trapping the cooler air below it allowing for the > formation > of the ice-mist (i think you called it). I assume that like most fogs that > you would > also have to have little or no breeze at it would disperse the fog. So it > seems you > would need a combination of specific weather factors to see it. > > Ballistix Hello all, Just a couple clarifications here. Ballistix, you are correct- an inversion layer... I couldn't remember the specific term for it. Also, you are (again) correct that wind would indeed disperse the ice-fog/mist. However, as for it being visible- it is highly visible, often impairing vision, but usually appearing as a light mist. I think it has something to do with the amount of moisture "hanging" in the air. Hope that helped. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com ICQ. 30334260 or 8004143 (backup) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 08:49:41 +0100 From: "Carl Roger Nilsen" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Pedro Arnal Puente wrote: >Subject: cold and extreme cold weather effects > >Hello > >I'll let my lurker foxhole looking for a little help. > >I'm rewriting an old article about cold weather for Sir Roger Mercenario >(http://www.kobo.es/srm/), an spanish rpg ezine. > >What effects of cold and extreme cold weather on PCs and equipment do you >think could be of interest? > > >...con treinta balas por cargador, hoy no sere yo el perdedor. >*************************************************************************** I went looking through my entire GDW library (T2k, M2k, Cads&Dinos, DConsp, Trav:TNE); I knew I had seen official freezing rules somewhere. Finally, I found it, in Traveller:TNE, which uses the same system as T2k 2.2, btw. Now I know this may not be exactly the answer to your question, but I figured it would be nice-to-know. Ranked from less severe reactions, to most severe. *"Is there a draft in here?" *Severe cooling; shivers uncontrollably. Movement cut in half; all physical tasks become one level more difficult. *Movement quartered; extremities (fingers/toes) become numb, effective Agility cut in half; all tasks (physical, mental) become one level more difficult; and hypothermia sets in. *Must pass Average (v2.2) test of Constitution, or else fall unconscious from hypothermia. Those who do not fall unconscious have their movement rates reduced to 10%; effective Agility is quartered; all tasks become two levels more difficult. *1 point of wounds inflicted to every hit location from frostbite. This is not counteracted by heavy clothing. Above effects continue, but the roll to avoid unconsciousness becomes Difficult. *Automatically falls unconscious and slips into a coma, and will die within five minutes without emergency medical attention. Carl Roger Nilsen "Never overlook something that seems to be simple" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:24:32 +0100 From: "Carl Roger Nilsen" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects >How about our Buds from Scandinavia, I know they can add to >the information on cold.:):) Heydy ho! Much has been added to this subject already, so I can give you _one_ of my personal experiences with hypothermia and its side-effects. Some years ago, my detachment went marching for about 14 hours. It was a cold morning, and all I put on was a NATO sweater (thick). Throughout the day, it became very hot, and I started to sweat, yet it was not warm enough to remove my sweater. Suffice to say, I was drenched in sweat. The last three hours of our trip was late in the evening, and I was walking around, only slightly aware of my surroundings, I was so dizzy I could only know where to go by watching the people marching with me. By this time, the wet, thick sweater had become very uncomfortable and cold. When we took a technical break, and was ordered to dismantle our weapons and put them back together (the metal was covered in ice!) the sergeant noticed that I almost fell over, since I could no longer rely on a steady, rhythmic march for balance. He ordered me to be sent back to camp in a jeep, but I insisted that I should dismantle my weapon first, being very persistent. Unfortunately, I was not able to move my! fingers at all, and as I touched the icy metal, I felt . The transport came, but I refused to be driven home to camp, I wanted to march the remaining distance with my unit members. To this day I am still a bit angry that I was forced into the car, and driven back to base. When I returned to base, I was not able to stand up. They had to remove the ice-cold wet clothing and put me in a blanket in front of an oven. I was not able to move my hands more than a few inches, and my fingers stayed rigid until after I had had a warm bath. After this incident, I was less susceptible to cold. Throughout the winter, I always wore T-shirts, even at night. I spent one night walking around, with a temperature of around -20 to -30 degrees Fahrenheit. It tooks months for me to feel really cold again. My best tips: - -Always have spare, dry socks. They are the most vital item of clothing, and should be changed as often as possible. - -Don't believe thick clothes will protect you. Dress in layers, my preference in really cold environments is a couple of T-shirts, a couple of thin sweaters, and maybe a thick one under a jacket. - -Get accustomed to a low temperature environment by wearing less and less clothes. When you are able to work hard in -40 degrees in a T-shirt, you don't need to worry. Work up a sweat, then when back in the tent/igloo/whatever, change everything, including socks and underwear, and dress warm, until you feel warm again, then strip down to the T-shirt again. - -And don't wear thick clothes in a sleeping bag unless the situation demands it (rapid night-time response in a live/practice situation). If any of you have ever been to a joint exercise in northern Norway, you may have noticed people wearing only t-shirts. Acclimatization. Just some words of advice from someone who has hard experience. Carl Roger Nilsen "Never overlook something that seems to be simple" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:55:35 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects As an Alaskan born and bred, and also as 5 year resident of Chicago...Jack Frost and I are old friends. There have been a ton of responses to this thread, and some of them (The Alaskan ones) have given me warm fuzzies. Here are a couple random tidbits. I never really got cold as a kid in AK. In fact, when I went to school later on in the lower 48, it always struck me as odd who many snow days got called when there was so little snow. I was miserable when we moved to California (my first year was in Sacramento unfortuneately...we later moved to the central coast). It was hot...real hot. I couldn't cope, I spent alot of it with raging headaches and the day night cycles screwed me up a bit. When we used to play during recess in elementary school in AK, during the winter, I would often go back into class with my vision heavily effected. Things usually took on a fuzzy blue green layer...this was from 45 minutes exposure to fields of white with an overcast sky and no shades. Inuit folks used to wear wooden eye wear with thin slits which run horizontally over the eyes, this simple thing cuts glare down drastically (they kinda look like those thin new wave sunglass bands). In Chicago it was freakin COLD at times. With wind chill I saw 3 rough winters with lows of -50 F, -40 F (and -40 Celsius too since the are even at that temp), and -40F or C. The wind is a wet wind...very humid, so it whips away your heat even more than Alaskan air (which is dry I think, and oddly has very little static charge, I saw very few thunder storms growing up there...maybe 2, I saw my first at 5 in Florida). Humidity plays a major role in apparent temperature no matter what the season. Layers beat thickness hands down. I often roamed around in Chicago winters wearing no more than a cap (wool, but no ear flaps :(, a leather jacket, a flannel shirt, a sweat shirt, boots, jeans, socks, and boxers. granted sometimes the wind got so bad, I covered my ears and my face stung badly in the wind....I had no car either. On hypothermia...A few years ago I read an article in the Chicago Trib. In it there was an story on some army training excersise gone wrong in the swamps in the south. These troops were cruising in water for hours, and even though it was summer, they got severe hypothermia, some of them died. The NCO in charge got brought up on charges...I can't recall all the details, in fact it's very fuzzy now, but it needn't be "cold" to die of heat loss. Someone should come up with some avalanche rules...unless there are some already. Ray PS: I remember my dad plugging the car in at night too! (We never took out the battery though). Ah memories. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:57:10 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects >As an Alaskan born and bred, and also as 5 year resident of Chicago...Jack >Frost and I are old friends >Ray You guys are a pack of wusses! It get's down to a freezing 15 degrees C here in Australia! (Might go put a jumper on, it's down to 25 degrees) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:18:32 -0800 From: Snake Eyes Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects At 09:24 AM 2/27/2000 +0100, Carl Roger Nilsen wrote: >When you are able to work hard in -40 degrees in a T-shirt, you don't need >to worry. The cool thing is that -40F is the temperature at which spit will freeze before it hits the ground. Having spent six long winters in Anchorage, I can tell you -- nothing is cooler than hockin' a big ole loogie and watching it bounce off the sidewalk and skitter into the gutter. Of course, at -40F human skin will also crystalize in under a minute. At - -60F, if you take a mug of coffee fresh off the machine and fling it out your front door it will coagulate into a "pole" of thick sludge before it lands. One other interesting aspect of extreme cold weather operations is alcohol's low freezing point. I heard on more than one occasion a story of a soldier coming up from down south for "cool school" and, after spending a few days out on the tundra, the damn fool takes a big swig of whiskey out of a metal flask he'd been carrying with him -- and winds up flash-freezing his tongue, trachea and esophagus. ~ Snake Eyes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:04:12 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects The incident you mentioned to Army personnel occurred at the Ranger camp in Florida. During that phase of training you operate in the swamps and are perpetually wet. It is also the third phase of training. By the time you get to Florida you have been going for about six weeks on 2-3 hours of sleep so in the best of weather you still have a tendency to be "zombied". BTDT. They had a "norther" moce in and dropped the temps into the 40's I beleive. They jacked the NCOIC, but who would have gotten jacked if they'd been on a real operation? ===== FORD Rangers! Lead the Way!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 07:07:02 -0800 (PST) From: GRAEBARDE Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects Right:) I live on the Texas coast now. I talk to my friends back in NODAK saying it's warmed up to 50 so aeveryone is running around in short sleeve shirts.. but here at 50 I now shiver and put on long pants and a jacket:) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:20:34 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Weather Effects There was a decent article on weather back in Challenge #29. By Mitch Schwartz (who has a T2k web site if I am not mistaken). It was for V1 rules, but the effects were pretty easy to translate. If you can locate a copy, I'd recommend it. If I had a site, I'd post it. Maybe someone else on the list would be so kind? Several folks have mentioned acclimatization. I grew up in the mountains of NC and then lived for several years in the Bay Area in CA. A few years ago I moved to AZ. I was warned that after a while in the desert, my blood would "thin". I don't know how much medical truth there is to that, but now that I live in a colder environment again, I am very susceptible to cold, at temperatures I would have found comfortable before. That will probably pass with time, but right now it is a major headache for me. - -Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:37:48 +1300 From: "Gray, Raymond" Subject: RE: Game settings I ran an extended (Merc:2000) campaign based around the main island of the Cook Islands in the South Pacific (Rarotonga). >I've got a question for the list: >Aside from the obvious areas like Poland and the Persian Gulf, what >geographic areas of the world have we each developed for Twilight:2000? >For instance, I've run an Alaskan campaign for many years and have a >lot of detail on that part of the world that never was covered in a GDW >product. Maybe a good use for the list would be to share some of what >we've come up with. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 16:53:35 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects > You guys are a pack of wusses! It get's down to a freezing 15 degrees C > here in Australia! > (Might go put a jumper on, it's down to 25 degrees) > Jim > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 0 degrees C freezing? 15 is a whoppingly low 59 deg. F (I'm being sarcastic, I don't get cold until the low 50s F...) And 25 deg C is an uncomfortably warm 77 F... Did you mean -15, or being sarcastic, or what? Just curious. By the way, I've always lived in Sacramento... I can relate to the pain of the heat in summer. I don't know, I guess I'm an odd duck, always preferred the cold. In fact, I didn't start having problems with the cold of winter until we put in central heat in the house. Now I'm a bit spoiled, but still work a sweat in anything above 63 F, that's just standing around with something more than a T-shirt on... I'm a warm blooded Mediterranean type I suppose. Just a little of my experience. Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:14:36 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: cold and extreme cold weather effects >Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 0 degrees C freezing? 15 is a whoppingly >low 59 deg. F (I'm being sarcastic, I don't get cold until the low 50s F...) >And 25 deg C is an uncomfortably warm 77 F... Did you mean -15, or being >sarcastic, or what? Just curious. By the way, I've always lived in >Sacramento... I can relate to the pain of the heat in summer. I don't >know, I guess I'm an odd duck, always preferred the cold. In fact, I didn't >start having problems with the cold of winter until we put in central heat >in the house. Now I'm a bit spoiled, but still work a sweat in anything >above 63 F, that's just standing around with something more than a T-shirt >on... I'm a warm blooded Mediterranean type I suppose. Just a little of >my experience. >Cor Yep, I was being humourous and comparing your chilly climes with Balmy Australia. Especially to Ray who features in several of our PbEMs. It's our summer at the moment, I can't even imagine the temperatures you're describing! (That, and you keep using those funny old temperature measurements) Down here the weather is perfect, as is the scenery and the lifestyle. It's totally useless for T2K scenarios because we have a small relatively peacefully coexisting population. No right-wing militias would spring up in event of a catastrophe and we prefer that only our police and army do our defending. Jim (Smug bastard) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:03:59 -0600 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: guides what does the list feel are the best guides out there on equipment. the janes guides or are there other good books. a friend said that janes do excellent books on armor. aaron *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:03:45 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Rats and Plagues (Australia) Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > > > Down here the weather is perfect, as is the scenery and the lifestyle. > It's totally useless for T2K scenarios because we have a small relatively > peacefully coexisting population. No right-wing militias would spring up in > event of a catastrophe and we prefer that only our police and army do our > defending. > Jim (Smug bastard) > Are their plagues of rats in Australia? I have seen some documentary (Nature of Things) perhaps, however in this program they were showing tens of millions of rats overrunning farms and the countryside. They claimed that the situation is worsening, although I don't recall the cause. Is this true, or a sad attempt for ratings? I know this appears absurd, but that’s what they were conveying. Perhaps I could expand my T2K campaign to have a plague in Australia, and the food supply is non-existent. Steve << I can picture in my mind a world without war. A world without hate, and I Can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.>> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:11:59 +1300 From: "Gray, Raymond" Subject: RE: Rats and Plagues (Australia) I heard that 2/3rds of Queensland is under water! Nice. And please stop with posts like this one below, it has me shaking trying not to take the pxxx, and there is so much ammo here! >Are their plagues of rats in Australia? > I have seen some documentary (Nature of Things) perhaps, however in this >program they were showing tens of millions of >rats overrunning farms and the countryside. They claimed that the situation is >worsening, although I don't recall the cause. > Is this true, or a sad attempt for ratings? >I know this appears absurd, but that's what they were conveying. Perhaps I >could expand my T2K campaign to have a plague >in Australia, and the food supply is non-existent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:33:27 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) "Gray, Raymond" wrote: > I heard that 2/3rds of Queensland is under water! > Nice. > > And please stop with posts like this one below, it has me shaking trying not > to take the pxxx, > and there is so much ammo here! Hey, I said it was absurd. But they (The documentary) were quite sincere with video tape, scientists, farmers, etc. Generally I would have dismissed it, but I could not thing of anything wrong with Australia at the time to rebut Jim. :) Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:39:35 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) Steve wrote: > "Gray, Raymond" wrote: > > > I heard that 2/3rds of Queensland is under water! > > Nice. > > > > And please stop with posts like this one below, it has me shaking trying not > > to take the pxxx, > > and there is so much ammo here! > > Hey, I said it was absurd. But they (The documentary) were quite sincere with > video tape, scientists, farmers, etc. Generally I would have dismissed it, but I > could > not think of anything wrong with Australia at the time to rebut Jim. :) > > Steve > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 17:33:18 +1300 From: "Gray, Raymond" Subject: RE: Rats and Plagues (Australia) The "Australia is full of millions of rats" comment is enough for me.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 22:41:12 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) "Gray, Raymond" wrote: > The "Australia is full of millions of rats" comment is enough for me.... > *************************************************************************** > LOL That great! Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:46:09 -0800 From: "Corey Wells" Subject: Re: Rats and Plagues (Australia) > > Are their plagues of rats in Australia? > I have seen some documentary (Nature of Things) perhaps, however in this > program they were showing tens of millions of > rats overrunning farms and the countryside. They claimed that the situation is > worsening, although I don't recall the cause. > > Is this true, or a sad attempt for ratings? > I know this appears absurd, but that's what they were conveying. Perhaps I > could expand my T2K campaign to have a plague > in Australia, and the food supply is non-existent. > > I remember seeing something on PBS... But it was in India. People hunt the rats as a living. I don't remember much of it, besides that. You sure yours was Australia? Cor __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #101 *************************************