twilight2000-digest Tuesday, February 8 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 092 The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: Commo RE: EMP Re: Commo Re: Commo Re: Commo RE: Commo Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #91 Re: Commo RE: Commo RE: EMP Re: Commo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:21:47 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Commo I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents worth also. Since I worked in a Battalion S2 section (S stands for Battalion or Brigade level, the 2 for Military Intelligence staff section), I used the US Army radio's almost constantly while in the field. There are 3 basic things we used. One is an unpowered telephone, one is the radio's in our Hummers, and last is the radio's that the commo section set up for us in the TOC (Tactical Operations Center). The S2 and S3 (operations) sections of a batallion or a brigade comprise the TOC. All the radios had a model number, such as PRC-77, which we called a 'prick seventy seven'. I can't remember the exact models anymore. The unpowered telephones we used for comms with anything within 2 miles when we were stationary. The commo section had large spools of wire attached to the back of their Hummer. They laid the wire whenever we made a camp, and picked it up again before every move (thankless tasks ... I'm glad I wasn't them). The wire looked like standard speaker wire, but it was different. It had about 5 strands of copper and 5 strands of steel, per wire in the pair. Obviously the copper was for conductivity, and the steel for strength. If you used your pocket knife to cut the stuff, the steel wire would dull your knife fast (duh). The telephones had a couple mile range. You could go farther if you yelled in the phone. These phones are virtually industrictible. In Arkansas we were in a lightning storm once and lightning hit one of our commo wires, shot straight into the TOC, through the phone and into the side of the head of the guy using it. It knocked his butt off the seat he was on, about 3 feet through the air to land in the mud. He was dizzy for about 10 minutes and the phone still worked fine. Since he wasn't really hurt, I can laugh about it and say it looked pretty cool. The radios in our Hummers worked great. They were ancient Vietnam era stuff (don't believe any crap about the 82nd Airbone getting all kinds of new high tech stuff, at least while I was in), oldies but goodies. The only tool you needed to work on them was a pencil with a nice eraser. Use the eraser to polish the contact pins on the wires to the scrambler box and to the handset. Occasionally they would get dirty and need cleaning, but that's about it. The range was excellent and very consistent. We did most of our training on Ft. Bragg, which has low rolling hills, but we also trained in more mountainous areas and they still worked ok. I can't remember exactly but 30-40 km sounds about right. The weather didn't affect them at all. Hummers use a 24 volts system (2 batteries in series, which are located under the front passenger seat). We would typically run the Hummer about 1 hour each day to make sure the batteries never drained any significant amount. Occasionally we didn't run it for longer periods, but I never heard of a Hummer battery going dead. The hummer batteries are not maintence free civilian car batteries. They require water to be added every so often. Maybe 2 or 3 ounces of water a week would be typical. Supposedly it should be distilled water, but we just used tap water. Never hurt anything... The secure module on the Hummer was much smaller than the radio. The radio was about a foot tall, 18 inches wide and a foot deep. It was mounted on a steel platform between the driver and front passenger, so the top of the radio was close to the level of the bottom of the windshield. The secure module is about 4 inches tall, 6 inches wide and a foot deep and was mounted on the passenger side of the steel platform the radio was on. The main radio was HEAVY. Maybe 60 pounds or so. The secure module was about 10 pounds. The secure module requires a crypto key to be put in it for secure use. The commo section a a little device to load a new key. Typically we changed keys every couple days. Sometimes they would order a rapid change of keys for no apparent reason to train us to repond to the enemy capturing a radio with a key in it. Apparently there are billions of combinations to those keys, so it's hopeless to try them all. The various Commo sections had some system of transmitting the keys to each other, and there was some way to make a standard unit load a new key via radio, but I never learned how to do it. We just had the commo guys do it, he he he. In a headquarters company, the commo guys and motor pool get all the crappy jobs.... The radios commo set up for us in the TOC looked very similiar to the ones in our Hummers. The transmit lines left the tent and went over to Commo's Hummer. There they used some other box to actually power the transmission and send it to the antenna, which was usually remoted a 100 yards off somewhere. I don't think that 100 yards would have saved our asses if an ememy DF'ed us and sent artillery fire, but heck, thats what the manual said, so thats what we did. Yes, we really were that stupid. The most important thing about commo in the US military is the CEOI. It stands for Combat Electronoic warfate Operations Instructions (or some crap like that, I don't know, it was CEOI to me). Without a CEOI, all the radios in the world didn't mean flip. It's what told you what frequency to use and what call-sign to use. They are basically little books filled with random numbers and call signs. Lets say a particular CEOI had 50 days in it. Each day was 1 page. On a column on the left it would list section names, like S1, S2, S3, S4, Commo, Motor Pool, ADA, Command, company A, company B, etc... Beside each it would have a frequency and a call sign listed in about 8 columns or so. At the top it would have identifiers for the top level of the net, and the sub-levels. A unit would be told in person they were using column 2 for midnight to noon, and column 6 for noon to midnight (or whatever number). I know that wasn't very clear. How about an example. Suppose you knew that your battalion net was using Day 7 of that CEOI. And on day 7, suppose it said the top level was X, and sub level #1 was B, and sub level #2 was G, sub level #3 was some other random letter, and so on. Now suppose it was 10 am, the CEOI time switch was set at noon and your in the S2 section of 2nd battation and you wanted to call the S2 section of brigade. Well, you would use the first frequency listed beside the S2 section (if you were using column 1), suppose it is 425.7MHz and the call sign is 3P. Well, you would get on the radio and say "X-ray Three Papa, this is Gamma Three Papa, over." So if it was for net traffic in a brigade, then all brigade sections are top level, and 1st battalion is sub level #1, and 2nd battalion is sub level #2, etc... If the same page was being used for a division net, then the division would be the top level and the brigades would be the sub levels. After it passed noon (or whatever the switch time is), you would have to look at your CEOI again to see what frequency you just switched to and what your new call sign is. Maybe the S2 section is now L7. You would switch to the new frequency and now you would say "Xray Lema Seven, this is Gamma Lema Seven, over." You better know when the switch time is, what day number you are using and what CEOI to use, otherwise you'll never get a message through. The commo section handled the distribution of CEOI's and figuring out which ones to use. There was some method to the madness so people wouldn't end up using each others frequencies, but I don't know how they did it. The CEOI's were the only classified item that we didn't take responsibility for. Everything else classified we did, but not the CEOI's. Occasionally, they would come around and say that a CEOI was compromised and here's a new one. That was always done by runner. You could invalidate a CEOI over the radio, but you couldn't get a new one that way. You actually had to go get one. When you went out of a secure area, you would typically make a scribbled note with the frequencies and call signs on it. Typically written cryptically enough so no one but the guy who wrote it could easily figure it out. And never with more than a days worth of Freq's and Call signs. That way, if they did capture it and bring it back to an intelligence unit that could make use of the data, it was already old by the time they tried to use it. We all knew the voices of the people we worked with pretty well, so it would have been damn hard to fool us even if you got a CEOI. If we got suspicious of something, we could just invalidate the CEOI with a single radio call, and everyone has to switch. There were new frequency hopping digital radios that were coming out just as I was discharged ('92), but I never saw them. Supposedly they were going to be really cool. The crypto key would be entered on a little key pad like a credit card number. That way we could actually re-key the radios ourselves. Anyway, they were supposedly just a week from delivery for almost a year before I left, so I don't know if they really got them or not. Happy radioing! Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:21:52 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: EMP > > Does the 2.5 ton truck really have any electronics? haven't they > pretty much stayed > the same forever? > I think they are fuel injected, but I really doubt it's electronic. Just guessing I'd say no. A US Army 2 1/2 ton truck is basically just a big heavy hunk of steel that drives around. None of our's even had radios. One had a .50 cal mounting ring put on it over the passengers seat about 6 inches over where the roof should have been. I would be kinda shocked if the EMP from a nuke killed one. I've been silent on the EMP thread since I'm not 100% sure of my info. If the radiation isn't powerful enough to be immediately fatal, I doubt it would kill a deuce and a half. A power surge of white noise of the magnitude of a nuke EMP is bad, but unless it generates enough voltage to short the battery (if the battery is already going bad it might push it over the edge though), I can't imagine it killing the thing. It might stall the engine by causing all the spark plugs to fire simultaneous, but you could just start it again, assuming you're alive to do so. EMP kills electronics, not *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:22:47 -0500 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Commo Yeah, I guess I was a bit technical there, time for me to start writing my radio primer and try to simplify things. B-) Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Looney" To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 4:38 PM Subject: Re: Commo > What amazes me Chuck is how you always put it out in plain speak for those > of us that are slower. :-) > > Thanks > > Loonz > > > Subject: Re: Commo > > > > I know that battery voltage does make a different in the power the radio > > does transmit. I have an HTX-202 walkie-talkie which I use to talk on 2 > > meters (144 -148 Mc) on the VHF-Hi band (137 - 174 Mc usually). If I run > it > > off the standard 7.2V, 600 Ma NiCad battery pack, I can put out 2.5 watts > RF > > power. If I run it off the backup 6 AA, alkaline battery pack at 9V, I > get > > 4 watts. If I run it off of a power supply or the car battery, at 12 - > 14V > > (typically 13.8V) I get about 5 or 6 watts. I think what would make a > > bigger difference than transmitted power is the type of antenna used and > the > > terrain you are in. When you get into the VHF bands (30 - 300 Mc) and the > > UHF bands (300 - 3000 Mc), most of the radio waves behave "line-of-sight" > > much like a light beam, especially as you go higher in frequency. > However, > > VHF radio waves do go beyond the horizon, more so as you go lower in > > frequency. Then you have atmosphere bending of the signals and bouncing > > signals off the ionosphere if the sunspots and geomagnetic field is > > hyper-active. > > > > Let's see, if I use a 5/8th wave car antenna on a cookie sheet for a > ground > > plane, my 2.5 watts can carry a good 50 miles or more, I've been known to > > key up ham radio repeaters in Eastern Ohio from here in Western PA near > > Pittsburgh. I also live pretty high up for the area so of course height > > helps me greatly. I've worked mobile using the NiCads at the same power > and > > I did almost as well as I would at 5 or 6 watts. Western PA is kind of > > hilly, so if your 2.5 watts won't make it, for the most part, neither will > 5 > > or 6. > > > > Another issue is what type of batteries does the radio use? NiCad, > mercury, > > lithium-ion, lead-acid, alkaline, carbon zinc, and perhaps others, would > be > > a factor too. Some batteries might deliver the same voltage at the same > > amperage, more or less as they are used up and then drop like a hot potato > > at some point while others drop gradually. Then you have temperature to > > worry about. NiCads are a little better than alkaline when it's cold. > > > > Again, it is up to the ref to fit whatever he wants to do in his/her > > campaign, but I just wanted to offer a viewpoint on the subject. > > > > Chuck > > > > DE KA3WRW > > > > --- > > > > "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." > > > > -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been > > cancelled. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Wolfgang Weisselberg" > > To: "T2K LISTS" > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:49 AM > > Subject: Re: Commo > > > > > > > Hi, GRAEBARDE! > > > > > > Trying to kill the keyboard, GRAEBARDE (graebarde@yahoo.com) > > > produced 2,1K in 51 lines: > > > > > > > monitoring or 3600 points use. If the radio is left on to > > > > monitor each minute reduces the total 10 points. Each > > > > transmission reduces the total points 2 points as it takes > > > > more power to transmit. For each 400 points reduction on > > > > the battery total I subtract 1 from the D10 for the range > > > > of the radio. > > > > > > You assume that the voltage drops somewhat linearly to the > > > amount of energy in the battery, and that the equipment is > > > not built to deal with that. That is of course not the case. > > > > > > See your car battery, unless it really goes to empty (say > > > the last 10%, but I am guessing) the car will start OK, the > > > radio will recieve OK, ... > > > > > > Actually, under power the voltage is around 14V, instead of > > > the rated 12V from the battery. The battery needs loading, > > > you know ... > > > > > > Then battery voltage might break down if you draw much power > > > (sending) but keep up well with low requirements (recieving). > > > This happens much more with emptier conventional batteries. > > > > > > Then newer accumulators have very interesting output levels, > > > up to the point that you have to count the amps going in and > > > out to see how full the battery is. (Similar with fuel cells, > > > but there it's trivial to measure the amount of O_2 and H_2 > > > aviable.) > > > > > > Then there is suscpetibility to cold. > > > > > > Simply said: Unless the conditions are really avert for the > > > batteries you use, the matching(!) equipment will work to > > > spec for most of the life of the battery. Towards the end > > > performance might drop off. Like, once you go below 500 > > > points, you get a -1 for every 75 below that. > > > > > > > Radios also require maintenance. I use a maintenance > > > > level of 1 for all radios. If the maintenance roll is > > > > failed, no radio commo! > > > > > > Depends on the radio. A makeshift device from a few transistors > > > scrounged, some tubes and coils of wire[1], stuck together with > > > luck and gum and spit might react differently to a civilian > > > model or a rugged 'drive a tank over me' military model. > > > > > > > While this requires some paperwork it is fairer to the PC > > > > than an arbitrary roll of the dice to see if you make > > > > contact. > > > > > > Also being in or out of contact can have story reasons. If you > > > really don't want to decide every time, OK, use that system, > > > but if you want them cut off for some reason, just decide it > > > to be so. It can always be a intermittent failure inside the > > > transmitter or reciever ... or some jamming or the terrain. > > > > > > -Wolfgang > > > > > > [1] And people have build recievers like these in prison camps! > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 19:27:42 -0500 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Commo No Chuck I was serious your stuff is a good read. Got to have some of the real gouge, if you over simplify stuff you may lose accuracy. Don't change nuthin' Loonz - ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Mandus To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: Commo > Yeah, I guess I was a bit technical there, time for me to start writing my > radio primer and try to simplify things. B-) > > Chuck > > DE KA3WRW > > --- > > "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." > > -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been > cancelled. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dwight Looney" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: Commo > > > > What amazes me Chuck is how you always put it out in plain speak for those > > of us that are slower. :-) > > > > Thanks > > > > Loonz > > > > > > Subject: Re: Commo > > > > > > > I know that battery voltage does make a different in the power the radio > > > does transmit. I have an HTX-202 walkie-talkie which I use to talk on 2 > > > meters (144 -148 Mc) on the VHF-Hi band (137 - 174 Mc usually). If I > run > > it > > > off the standard 7.2V, 600 Ma NiCad battery pack, I can put out 2.5 > watts > > RF > > > power. If I run it off the backup 6 AA, alkaline battery pack at 9V, I > > get > > > 4 watts. If I run it off of a power supply or the car battery, at 12 - > > 14V > > > (typically 13.8V) I get about 5 or 6 watts. I think what would make a > > > bigger difference than transmitted power is the type of antenna used and > > the > > > terrain you are in. When you get into the VHF bands (30 - 300 Mc) and > the > > > UHF bands (300 - 3000 Mc), most of the radio waves behave > "line-of-sight" > > > much like a light beam, especially as you go higher in frequency. > > However, > > > VHF radio waves do go beyond the horizon, more so as you go lower in > > > frequency. Then you have atmosphere bending of the signals and bouncing > > > signals off the ionosphere if the sunspots and geomagnetic field is > > > hyper-active. > > > > > > Let's see, if I use a 5/8th wave car antenna on a cookie sheet for a > > ground > > > plane, my 2.5 watts can carry a good 50 miles or more, I've been known > to > > > key up ham radio repeaters in Eastern Ohio from here in Western PA near > > > Pittsburgh. I also live pretty high up for the area so of course height > > > helps me greatly. I've worked mobile using the NiCads at the same power > > and > > > I did almost as well as I would at 5 or 6 watts. Western PA is kind of > > > hilly, so if your 2.5 watts won't make it, for the most part, neither > will > > 5 > > > or 6. > > > > > > Another issue is what type of batteries does the radio use? NiCad, > > mercury, > > > lithium-ion, lead-acid, alkaline, carbon zinc, and perhaps others, would > > be > > > a factor too. Some batteries might deliver the same voltage at the same > > > amperage, more or less as they are used up and then drop like a hot > potato > > > at some point while others drop gradually. Then you have temperature to > > > worry about. NiCads are a little better than alkaline when it's cold. > > > > > > Again, it is up to the ref to fit whatever he wants to do in his/her > > > campaign, but I just wanted to offer a viewpoint on the subject. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > DE KA3WRW > > > > > > --- > > > > > > "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." > > > > > > -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been > > > cancelled. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Wolfgang Weisselberg" > > > To: "T2K LISTS" > > > Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:49 AM > > > Subject: Re: Commo > > > > > > > > > > Hi, GRAEBARDE! > > > > > > > > Trying to kill the keyboard, GRAEBARDE (graebarde@yahoo.com) > > > > produced 2,1K in 51 lines: > > > > > > > > > monitoring or 3600 points use. If the radio is left on to > > > > > monitor each minute reduces the total 10 points. Each > > > > > transmission reduces the total points 2 points as it takes > > > > > more power to transmit. For each 400 points reduction on > > > > > the battery total I subtract 1 from the D10 for the range > > > > > of the radio. > > > > > > > > You assume that the voltage drops somewhat linearly to the > > > > amount of energy in the battery, and that the equipment is > > > > not built to deal with that. That is of course not the case. > > > > > > > > See your car battery, unless it really goes to empty (say > > > > the last 10%, but I am guessing) the car will start OK, the > > > > radio will recieve OK, ... > > > > > > > > Actually, under power the voltage is around 14V, instead of > > > > the rated 12V from the battery. The battery needs loading, > > > > you know ... > > > > > > > > Then battery voltage might break down if you draw much power > > > > (sending) but keep up well with low requirements (recieving). > > > > This happens much more with emptier conventional batteries. > > > > > > > > Then newer accumulators have very interesting output levels, > > > > up to the point that you have to count the amps going in and > > > > out to see how full the battery is. (Similar with fuel cells, > > > > but there it's trivial to measure the amount of O_2 and H_2 > > > > aviable.) > > > > > > > > Then there is suscpetibility to cold. > > > > > > > > Simply said: Unless the conditions are really avert for the > > > > batteries you use, the matching(!) equipment will work to > > > > spec for most of the life of the battery. Towards the end > > > > performance might drop off. Like, once you go below 500 > > > > points, you get a -1 for every 75 below that. > > > > > > > > > Radios also require maintenance. I use a maintenance > > > > > level of 1 for all radios. If the maintenance roll is > > > > > failed, no radio commo! > > > > > > > > Depends on the radio. A makeshift device from a few transistors > > > > scrounged, some tubes and coils of wire[1], stuck together with > > > > luck and gum and spit might react differently to a civilian > > > > model or a rugged 'drive a tank over me' military model. > > > > > > > > > While this requires some paperwork it is fairer to the PC > > > > > than an arbitrary roll of the dice to see if you make > > > > > contact. > > > > > > > > Also being in or out of contact can have story reasons. If you > > > > really don't want to decide every time, OK, use that system, > > > > but if you want them cut off for some reason, just decide it > > > > to be so. It can always be a intermittent failure inside the > > > > transmitter or reciever ... or some jamming or the terrain. > > > > > > > > -Wolfgang > > > > > > > > [1] And people have build recievers like these in prison camps! > > > > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > > > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > > > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 16:36:25 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Commo > Depends on the radio. A makeshift device from a few transistors > scrounged, some tubes and coils of wire[1], stuck together with > luck and gum and spit might react differently to a civilian > model or a rugged 'drive a tank over me' military model. I dunno I've built some crystal set radios and yes they would get smashed if you step on them but they're so simple and small that really only smashing it to bits can hurt it. And they dont even need batteries. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 19:48:35 EST From: "shaari ladue" Subject: RE: Commo Walter, I found myself chuckling several times throughout this email. You see, I was an Army cadet from '93 - '97, and so much of what you talked about was true. The whole time I got to see a Sengar (or however you say/spell it) digital radio once, when I got to play at being a 3rd Lt for 6 weeks at Ft. Lee, VA. Basically, they handed me a private with attached radio and said.. "Don't touch it, don't play with it, just tell him who you want to call, and then talk." *lol* ah, the trust in my military education. But back to my point. All I used for those four years were PRC-77's, and those things could take oodles of punishment. And the whole pencil for cleaning the connections thing, very true. We'd carry pen for writing orders, and pencils for mapping and cleaning radios. I think the hardest time was when some freshman dropped the thing in a puddle of clay and we had to dig it out. That was annoying, but we got past it. >The most important thing about commo in the US military is the CEOI. > It >stands for Combat Electronoic warfate Operations Instructions (or >some >crap like that, I don't know, it was CEOI to me). yeah, I have no idea what it stood for either. As my military "career" progressed, I found myself responsible for teaching other cadets how to use a CEOI. I think it was set up so that there _is_ no easy way to explain it.. you basically HAVE to use examples. Something Walter didn't mention, but that I'm pretty sure is the case is that whenever you reach a new net, (say, some other battalions net that you've never talked to before) you're supposed to (ah hell, I don't remember the proper military speak for it) basically verify yourself with this quiz.. oh yeah.. authenticate.. that's what it is. So you call in, and so they can make sure that a) you are who you say you are, and b) that you have one of these damn books, they say something like authenticate Papa Juliet and then you have to find the right columns and rows and give them back the right answer otherwise they don't listen to you. Let me tell ya, the sheer number of cadets who couldn't manage that task was astounding. Well, maybe not to you guys, but to me it was. But hey, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised after previous watching a fellow (well, at that point anyway) officer-to-be stick a practice claymore mine in ground during a practice ambush, pointing the wrong way. (complete with the letters "This Side Towards Enemy" facing in their direction) And then proceed to pretend detonate said mine... It was amusing to inform a cadet private (read, freshman with about 2 months of ROTC experience) that she was now in command of the squad and watch the ensuing slaughter. Shaari ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 20:40:50 EST From: TrooperJD@aol.com Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1999 #91 For some reason i did nto receive digest #90. Could someone send it to me please i would be most apprecative. Trooper *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:04:06 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Commo >Yeah, I guess I was a bit technical there, time for me to start writing my >radio primer and try to simplify things. B-) > >Chuck > >DE KA3WRW I remember that a certain Chuck said he'd do that last year! Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:22:15 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Commo Shaari's comments are right on the money. I totally forgot about that whole authentication thing. Geeze, the years go fast. It also reminded me about another thing on the radio's, all the wiring connector's used metal circular connectors with rubber o-rings for a dust seal. If you didn't lube the o-ring regularly with silicone, then after you drove for a while in the rain (remember, no doors on Hummer's in the 82nd) the connection would get funky and you would have to remove the connector and clean it off. Funny that the sand didn't bother them that much in Saudi. I don't know why. Anyway, the point I remembered is that there are certain things that different people aren't supposed to do. Like disassemble the lower reciever on a M16, open and service a broken radio, change the oil on a truck, etc... Those things were only done by the people supposed to do it. The point is that even though I used a radio for seemingly thousands of hours, I never knew how to load the secure unit. Commo always did it. If our unit started taking casulties and commo wasn't around anymore, then there wouldn't be anyone that knew how to do it. The complacency that the proper guy will always be there to do it for you is rampant. Instead of giving a new Lt. a radio and showing him how to use it, they give you a radio and a person to operate it. So completely typical. Never mind that it handicaps the Lt from that day on ... unless he has the personal initiative to learn it for himself. No one but the battalion armorer is allowed to disassemble the lower reciever on an M16. It has several small parts that can get lost and put back together wrong. WAY too complicated for the average grunt in the Army's view. I never saw anyone place a claymore backwards, but I remember the instructors going over the point many times. I wondered why they repeated it so many times, and why they looked so nervous when they handed you an M72 rocket launcher for the first time. I did see a private drop a live grenade at his feet after pulling the pin. He was so scared and nervous of the grenade, his left hand just sliped right off the grenade, the spoon went flying and thunk onto the ground the live grenade went. Luckily the Army anticipates these things and has a Drill sergeant right in front of you while you do this. He grabbed the grenade, tossed it out of the bunker, grabbed the guy by his helmet and drove his face about 6 inches into the dirt. I don't think I ever saw an ass chewing as bad as what he got. That drill sergeant was about to kill that guy. Ahhh, the memories of basic training.... It's amazing how completely 'ate up' (the term we used to describe someone with a room temperature IQ) many people are. You know, our battalion armorer, the one that had the key and security code to our battalion arms room, was such an idiot that when we deployed to Saudi, he didn't even bring his own rifle. He left it locked in the Arms room in Ft. Bragg. I guess he thought they would send him back since he didn't have a rifle. Well, he just got an article 15 (non-judicial punishment for those of you that don't know) and was assigned a new rifle. It's really amazing some of the people the Army lets in... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:23:43 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: RE: EMP - -----Original Message----- From: Billy Bob In my last scenario a small (1 kiloton) nuclear device went off just out of the reach of the PC's. They had a M1A1 Abrams MBT and 2.5 ton truck. I knocked out both with EMP. An argument ensued, and the ruling is on hold until I resolve this. >Billy Bob, I would still stop both vehicles dead in their tracks. If u decide to rescind your original decision, you can always have the PCs simply restart their vehicles. If your goal is 2 get rid of the PC's vehicles well I say do that anyway. You can always rule that the EMP just affects a single component of an important sub system of the vehicle, AND make the back up system fail prior 2 the blast. For e.g. have the M-1's turbine tac-meter fail from the EMP (Have the driver notice this after re-start...then have the turbine's "auto-trip" fail due to a separate mechanical/maintenance failure (Remember it is not unheard of to have a flat spare when ur main tire goes flat)...sooo whenever the PCs _PUSH_ their M1, have the turbine over-speed without a working safety trip...no more turbine...Give ur driver/mech a chance 2 "know" what is happening. Abel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 23:58:12 -0500 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Commo Thanks for the good plug, Loonz. Yeah, I try to keep it as simple as I can but there are times I do have to get technical. I never served in the military so the only military radio experience I ever had was at the receiving end with my shortwave radio or police scanner but I try to use my ham radio experience to draw on how radio works. After all, all of us have to follow the same laws of physics, be they radio broadcaster, CBer, amateur radio operator, or military radio operator. B-) Seriously, some military comms do take place in the 6 meter ham radio band (50 - 54 Mc) where sometimes you hear a military op chatting with a ham radio operator. It's not too common but it's been known to happen. Another note, on both sides of the 2 meter ham band (144 - 148 Mc), a lot of military comms take place below (137 - 144 Mc) and above (148 - 150 Mc) so again there are similarities. I was reading a Time Magazine article on the Soviet (errr, Russian - having an 80's flashback B-) ) war going on in Chechnya and they made the point where when the military goes into the built up areas of the cities, their communications suffer. The reason is the frequencies they use. Generally, they use the VHF-Lo bands (30 - 88 Mc) and at those wavelengths, things like buildings and stuff tends to block the signals or at least make them weaker. Those frequencies are more appropriate for the countryside, hence many police and fire departments "in the boonies" still use the lower frequencies because there is very little interference and the signals go further with less power. In the cities, VHF-Hi (137 - 174 Mc) or better yet, UHF-Lo/Hi (450 - 512 Mc) and 800 Mc (806 - 956 Mc) are used because they can go through buildings much better due to the shorter wavelength and interference is much less. That's why you find many city police departments using UHF or 800 Mc. Pittsburgh police uses the 453/458 Mc bands (our police radio technology dates from the 1960's if not a little before that, another story for another time) or the 800 Mc areas. Lastly, you ought to see our local police cars fire trucks, and municipal vehicles. Some of them have 4 or 5 antennas, our fire is in the VHF-Lo band (33.76 and 33.86 Mc), our medical (155.775 Mc) and road crew (154.025 Mc out/155.985 Mc in) is on VHF-Hi, and police is on UHF-Lo (460.050 Mc). B-) What interesting is when the UHF police repeater conks out, they switch to the road frequency. - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Looney" To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Commo > No Chuck I was serious your stuff is a good read. Got to have some of the > real gouge, if you over simplify stuff you may lose accuracy. Don't change > nuthin' > > Loonz > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #92 ************************************