twilight2000-digest Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 089 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Maps of Southern Iraq Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Polish Structures Re: Polish Structures Re: Polish Structures Re: Polish Structures Re: Polish Structures Re: Polish Structures Re: Polish Structures morbid question Re: Polish Structures Re: morbid question Re: Polish Structures Re: morbid question Re: Polish Structures RE: Polish Structures Re: Polish Structures (now maps) Re: morbid question Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Polish Structures Re: morbid question Re: Polish Structures (now maps) Re: Polish Structures (now maps) Re: morbid question RE: morbid question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:59:53 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Maps of Southern Iraq Cool. I live in Austin and I didn't know about this. I think the quality of my gaming maps just improved! - -Rob Resnick Family wrote: > I've been running FGU's Merc for a while, and I've found the > university of Texas has the best collection of maps I've ever found. > >From tactical pilotage charts to plain old political maps, they've > got everything I've been looking for. Here's the URL: > http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/Map_collection.html > Most of the maps are too large to print on one 8 1/2 / 11 piece of > paper, but I've used several commercial graphics programs to fit them > to one sheet of paper, and they are still useful in this size. I also > printed one of them as is, as a test, and the tactical pilotage chart > I chose took up 8-9 pages of 8/12-11. I used a HP deskjet color ink > jet printer, and they came out well. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:23:25 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions B Little wrote: > There is also a couple movies that were made recently about this book. I > don't remember both titles exactly, but one of them was called "Bravo Two > Zero" and starred Sean Bean who was also in the movies Patriot Games and > Ronin. Not to mention a million Sharpe's Insert Something Here. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:01:31 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Polish Structures At 03:02 AM 1/16/00 +1100, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > I have found a really good site for GMs who set their game in Poland. >This site shows pics of a lot of the leftover fortifications from WW2, >ribbons of "Dragon Teeth" tank traps, great pics of bridges and some pics >that had me baffled until I realised they were rather sobering pictures of >the kilns in a Nazi death camp. > He has included a huge amount of photos that appear to be underground >tunnels of some sort that may be some sort of communist bunker system?, (I >don't read Polish, if someone can translate it I'd like to know how wrong I >am!) all in all its a good source for descriptions of Polish terrain >features. > Any PCs who move into one of these blockhouses is set for life! > >http://www.gamma.com.pl/mru/ > Okay, sorry for the delay, but here's the best I can do at translating the various titles/captions on this site--my dictionary's not so good for this. "Witamy na nieoficjalnej stronie milosników" "Welcome to the unofficial page of lovers..." "MIEDZYRZECKIEGO REJONU UMOCNIONEGO" "...of the "Interriver Fortified Region" or the "Fortified Interriver Region" (I think that "miedzyrzeckiego" literally means "between the rivers") "Przedstawiamy galerie zdjec wykonanych przez Andrzeja Narlocha i Jaroslawa Michalaka." "Introducting the gallery of pictures taken by Andrzej Narloch and Jaroslaw Michalak." "Wszystkie prawa zastrzezone. Kopiowanie i publikacja bez zgody autorów zabronione !" "All rights reserved. Duplication and publication without the permission of the authors is prohibited!" "Panzerwerki i obiekty bojowe" "Armored works and combat objects" (though the first term is German, and I don't know German) "Zapory przeciwczolgowe" "Anti-tank obstacles" (a "czolg" is a tank) "Obiekty hydrotechniczne" "'Hyrdotechnical' objects" ("hydrotechnical" isn't a word in English--it means machinery used in/with water, likes dams and stuff) "Muzeum w Pniewie" "Museum in Pniewy" (Pneiwy is a town northwest of Poznan--hmm, from the way they use it here, I suspect it may be called "Pniewa" sometimes) "Inne obiekty naziemne" "Other objects in the ground" (I think that's what "naziemny" means, anyway) "Podziemne galerie" "Underground gallery" "Stalaktyty, stalagmity, nacieki" "Stalactites, stalagmites, deposits" "Urzadzenia wyposazenia, instalacje" "Equipment installations, plumbing" ("Istalacje" can be "installations", but it seems to be "plumbing" here. Are these what you thought were the kilns? I'm afraid it's just pipes.) "Korytarze pólnocy" "Northern corridors" ("Pólnoc" also means midnight--the cardinal directions are based on the hands of a clock) "Korytarze poludnia" "Southern corridors" (And "poludnia" is also noon--maybe it was a 24-hour clock? :) "Nietoperze" "Bats" "Linki zwiazane z MRU i innymi umocnieniami w Polsce" "Links connected with the MRU and other fortifications in Poland" Okay, I followed one of the links, and it looks like these fortifications are located in the area of western Poland between the Warta and the Odra (Wartha and Oder in German), which places them to the west of Poznan. This area was formerly in Germany, and the German name of the fortification system was Festungsfront Oder-Warthe-Bogen (OWB). Work on the fortifications began in 1934, and apparently it was oringally a hydrotechnical project (that is, for regulating the rivers of the region). The work on the military part began in 1935; I've only skimmed the page with this info, but I'd guess the Germans were trying to disguise the nature of the project (possibly because of Treaty of Versailles restrictions?). They were finished in 1942, and then air bases were added in 1943. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:06:40 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Polish Structures Er, that river name in German shoulda been "Warthe", not "Wartha". Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 04:07:57 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Polish Structures Oh, and please disregard my typos of "Pniewy" and "Instalacje" :). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:40:07 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Polish Structures >"Urzadzenia wyposazenia, instalacje" >"Equipment installations, plumbing" ("Istalacje" can be "installations", >but it > seems to be "plumbing" here. Are these what you thought were the > kilns? I'm afraid it's just pipes.) Hah! That's great! Talk about the politically correct subconscious rearing it's ugly head, I've automatically associated "German-WW2" with "Holocaust". Not only are their WW2 fortifications in Poland, but their is some amazing Age of Reason (when everyone was just as unreasonable) fortifications here and there. When I searched "poland" and "fortifications" I got over 800 sites. All these would be of infinite use to a PC party. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:57:00 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Polish Structures Scott David Orr wrote: > > "Inne obiekty naziemne" > "Other objects in the ground" (I think that's what "naziemny" means, > anyway) > Na means on. So its 'above ground' objects (as opposed to pod which is under). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:57:37 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Polish Structures > Not only are their WW2 fortifications in Poland, but their is some > amazing Age of Reason (when everyone was just as unreasonable) > fortifications here and there. When I searched "poland" and "fortifications" > I got over 800 sites. All these would be of infinite use to a PC party. Not to mention their enemies :) Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 05:03:15 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Polish Structures At 08:40 PM 1/26/00 +1100, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: >>"Urzadzenia wyposazenia, instalacje" >>"Equipment installations, plumbing" ("Istalacje" can be "installations", >>but it >> seems to be "plumbing" here. Are these what you thought were the >> kilns? I'm afraid it's just pipes.) > > Hah! That's great! Talk about the politically correct subconscious >rearing it's ugly head, I've automatically associated "German-WW2" with >"Holocaust". > Not only are their WW2 fortifications in Poland, but their is some >amazing Age of Reason (when everyone was just as unreasonable) >fortifications here and there. When I searched "poland" and "fortifications" >I got over 800 sites. All these would be of infinite use to a PC party. Yes, there are lots of wonderful castles in Poland (just before the modern period, it was the most powerful state in Europe). Alas the government just started a dam project that destroy one of the most unique ones--a pair of castles on distant hilltops (I think one will remain, but the other's hill will become and island and the water will undermine its foundations). Of course, as any TW2K player knows, the most interesting and historically important fortifications are probably those in Krakow. As another tidbit, there's even a small desert somewhere between Krakow and Lodz, created in like the 14th century by deforestation. It's got lots of unique species, and apparently was used by Rommel for maneuvers to practice for the North Africa campaign. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:13:22 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: morbid question Er... this is probably an unusual question but legitimate I think. In the t2k setting something like half the population of the world is killed. Lots of combatants die. The question must be asked: Who cleans all bodies up (especially after a battle)? In Return to Warsaw it says that there will be skeletons everywhere and the survivors bury them whenever they are reclaiming land. What about other places? Should the PCs be finding skeletons everywhere? Should there be a huge rat population (maybe I should start using the disease rules)? I was thinking of the underground tunnels and remembered that there were several bunkers near my grandmother's house where the Russians had charged up a hill late in the war. Lots of Russians died and were buried in a cemetery nearby. Just wondering what happened to the Germans and so on. Of course if nuclear weapons were used most people would probably try to keep away from battle grounds. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:20:11 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Polish Structures Ray Wiberg wrote: > > Not only are their WW2 fortifications in Poland, but their is some > > amazing Age of Reason (when everyone was just as unreasonable) > > fortifications here and there. When I searched "poland" and "fortifications" > > I got over 800 sites. All these would be of infinite use to a PC party. > > Not to mention their enemies :) > > Ray > I think for anyone living in the U.S it might be hard to understand how many old buildings and fortifications there are. I've used a castle once in my campaigns; I know they're numerous enough to be used more (of course a lot of them are very small). There are bunkers left over from WWII in a lot of places as well. I just sort of figured that large caliber guns would destroy a crumbling castle easily enough. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:22:42 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: morbid question >Er... this is probably an unusual question but legitimate I think. In >the t2k setting something like half the population of the world is >killed. Lots of combatants die. The question must be asked: >Who cleans all bodies up (especially after a battle)? Very good point, one that never seems to be addressed. In my PbEM the PCs bumped into a Black Flag group during a rainstorm and a meeting engagement ensued, after the fight the MP company that was in pursuit of the Flags helped clean up the battle field. This was behind thier own lines during a route march to the front and the COs were concerned about disease and the spread of wild dogs that unburied bodies promote. Bodies should be everywhere! Skulls litter ruined buildings and scavengers dig up hasty graves, I actually have a character that has a thing about good burial procedures. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:25:36 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Polish Structures >I think for anyone living in the U.S it might be hard to understand how many old >buildings and fortifications there are. I've used a castle once in my campaigns; I >know they're numerous enough to be used more (of course a lot of them are very >small). There are bunkers left over from WWII in a lot of places as well. I just >sort of figured that large caliber guns would destroy a crumbling castle easily >enough. Yep, they sure will, but the ground that castles occupy is well sited. Monte Cassino in WW2 is a good example, even though the allies levelled it the site was just as good for the defenders. Even better because they're only really concerned about the foundations, nice deep cellars for sitting out bombardments and then up into the slit trenches in the rubble. Jim. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:32:44 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: morbid question > Er... this is probably an unusual question but legitimate I think. In > the t2k setting something like half the population of the world is > killed. Lots of combatants die. The question must be asked: > Who cleans all bodies up (especially after a battle)? > In Return to Warsaw it says that there will be skeletons everywhere and > the survivors bury them whenever they are reclaiming land. What about > other places? Should the PCs be finding skeletons everywhere? Should > there be a huge rat population (maybe I should start using the disease > rules)? I was thinking of the underground tunnels and remembered that > there were several bunkers near my grandmother's house where the > Russians had charged up a hill late in the war. Lots of Russians died > and were buried in a cemetery nearby. Just wondering what happened to > the Germans and so on. Of course if nuclear weapons were used most > people would probably try to keep away from battle grounds. > Seeing as the "Secondary Kill" has only begun, the body count is unlikely to stop at a mere 50%. Keep in mind that some areas in less developed nations didn't get hit with nukes or widespread conventional warfare, so the severely depopulated regions are in the U.S., Europe, China, and India (with a few other hot areas). During the black plague body disposal was difficult to say the least, and they kept up their bureaucracies, in addition the plague came in surges, not in one nasty year. Santitation(including body disposal) will have a definite impact on the lives of PCs in wartorn industrial areas. Skeletons will be somewhat common, but so will the bodies of those who have starved, been killed or murdered, succumbed to radiation related complications, or any other wide variety of diseases (if the black plague came about from flea carriers...the increased rat population may have very grim results). One or two years into the aftermath of the conflict will be just the beginning of a long road of hardship. So...be sure to include a corpse and disease factor if you like a hardline realism in your games. Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:47:05 -0000 From: "Mark Oliver" Subject: Re: Polish Structures <<< Yep, they sure will, but the ground that castles occupy is well sited. >>> Not always, there can be other reasons for the location of castles. For example the Tower of London (Norman) is not located in a prime defensible position, it was built there to control London not for terrain advantage. It was also sited to take advantage of what remain of the old Roman London wall. Colchester Castle (Norman) is another example. It was built on the remains of an old Roman temple and is only sitting on a relatively small hill. It was built there because the remains provided a good solid fondation to the new structure. A final example is Tilbury Fort (Tudor), built in a flat area but in a location where it can overlook the river Thames, there's also a fort (can't recall the name) on the other side of the river. You don't just find important fortifications in obvious areas of defendable terrain. There can be other reasons for the construction of a major fortification. Basically the PCs could find one just about anywhere.... <<< Monte Cassino in WW2 is a good example >>> I thought that was a monastry rather than a castle as such. Conincedentally with all this talk of Poland it was Free Polish army units who managed to capture it in the end. Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:00:50 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Polish Structures > > <<< Yep, they sure will, but the ground that castles occupy is well sited. > >>> > > Not always, there can be other reasons for the location of castles. > > For example the Tower of London (Norman) is not located in a prime > defensible position, it was built there to control London not for terrain > advantage. It was also sited to take advantage of what remain of the old > Roman London wall. > > Colchester Castle (Norman) is another example. It was built on > the remains > of an old Roman temple and is only sitting on a relatively small hill. It > was built there because the remains provided a good solid fondation to the > new structure. > > A final example is Tilbury Fort (Tudor), built in a flat area but in a > location where it can overlook the river Thames, there's also a > fort (can't > recall the name) on the other side of the river. > > You don't just find important fortifications in obvious areas of > defendable > terrain. There can be other reasons for the construction of a major > fortification. Basically the PCs could find one just about anywhere.... I think the term 'well sited' was mis-interpreted as 'on a hill'. All of these examples I would also call 'well sited'. They are also all in England, which may have had a significantly different historical context for it's castles than Poland. Being part Swiss, I've visited Switzerland many times and have been inside almost every major castle open to the public in Switzerland (that's a lot of them). The castles in the French speaking part are built differently than the ones in the German speaking part, which are different still from the ones with Italian influence, all of which are different from English castles (except maybe the 3 in Belenzona which seemed kinda English like). But they are all 'well sited'. It's pretty obvious why each one is where it's at. They don't just stick them randomly, not that Mr. Oliver really implied that. I'm sure that most 'nice spots' have or had signficant structures of some sort. If Poland is anything like Switzerland, then it has "tons" of WWII fortifications all over the place. Switzerland itself is one giant fortification it could be argued. There are still valleys with tank barriers strung all the way across them. Being such a pain in the butt to move (the whole point they are there), it's unlikely that in Poland's booming economy after communist takeover that they had lots of money left for de-militarization. > <<< Monte Cassino in WW2 is a good example >>> > > I thought that was a monastry rather than a castle as such. > Of most significance to the game is the level of how fotified the structure is, not it's original purpose. Many monastaries are as strongly built as castles, they just don't look quite as threatening. I'm curious what the average distribution of building methods is in Poland. That would give a better idea how to role-play something there. Are 1/2 the farm houses built out of timber and half from stone? Do they have a building stlye of having the first story out of masonry, then the second floor out of wood or half-timbering? Is reinforced concrete used much in public construction? Are bridges typically timber or concrete? Since Poland was the site of seemingly continuous warfare for centuries, it probably doens't have as many old medevial villages as Switzerland does. To assist us in our game, my brother bought 4 maps from this place: http://www.netins.net/showcase/travelgenie/poland.htm They are 1:100000 scale topographic maps with roads, bridges, buildings, contours, everything. Almost too much detail. The maps are very nice. High quality, multicolor prints. Kinda pricey though. About $10 each. The 4 maps we got go about from Kalisz to Krakow. We haven't actually used them in play yet since we just got them, but it looks like they will ad trememdously to the color and depth of our game. They even have the legend in several languages. I'm not sure, but maybe we should have gotten the 1:300000 scale maps they offer. Hmmm, maybe next time. If someone does buy one, let me know what you though of it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:59:33 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Polish Structures (now maps) My aunt recently left to Poland. I'll ask her to bring some road maps back, then I can scan them in. It'll be a while tho. I have a map of Dortmund, Germany if anyone is interested. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:14:10 +1300 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: Re: morbid question Ray wrote: SNIP >So...be sure to include a corpse and disease factor if you like a hardline >realism in your games. You could also make some of those 'Work Gang' encounters into diseased/dead-body-clearing teams (well, they -are- prisoners, and they always get the nastiest jobs). Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:07:15 +0200 From: Pietu Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions >Summer is MUCH different from winter, which is different still from >fall/spring. I was there from August 8th to Late April (I lost track and >stopped caring much after late November when they announced there would be >no troop rotations). Of all of it, summer is definately the worst. > >Ok. Enough for today. > Thank you for you very good answer. It really help me in my scenario making. Now, because my scenario is dated to january 2001 I would like to know more about weather and battlefield conditions in winter. According book named Bravo Two Zero and One That Get Away there was cold and even some snow. Is there somekind weather in sothern part of Iraq? Was there any mechanical/item failures? With Thanks Pietu Helsinki, Finland *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:41:25 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions > >Summer is MUCH different from winter, which is different still from > >fall/spring. I was there from August 8th to Late April (I lost track and > >stopped caring much after late November when they announced > there would be > >no troop rotations). Of all of it, summer is definately the worst. > > > >Ok. Enough for today. > > > > Thank you for you very good answer. It really help me in my > scenario making. > > Now, because my scenario is dated to january 2001 I would like to know > more about weather and battlefield conditions in winter. According book > named Bravo Two Zero and One That Get Away there was cold and even some > snow. Is there somekind weather in sothern part of Iraq? Was there any > mechanical/item failures? > > > With Thanks > > Pietu The day time is very pleasant. Almost ideal weather to be outside. Not to hot or too cool. In the evening it cools off rapidly, probably 50% of the time there is some haze that appears as the air cools. Many times dew forms. 2 or 3 times I had to hit the inside of my sleeping bag to break the ice that formed on the outside so I could unzip it. It can get bitter cold, not always but sometimes. Occasionally, it rains. I mean VERY occasionally. Only once while I was there. Actually that was pretty funny, so I'll share it. As I mentioned before, when we were set up just south of the Iraqi border, the land is very rocky. It is gently rolling terrain. I think I actually have some pictures somewhere I could dig up, scan and give out. I'll work on that. Anyway, we always set up in the low spots for concealment purposes. Plus the little sand that is around is there, so when you fill sandbags you don't have to haul them very far. I don't know how many of you know what a GP-Meduim (General Purpose) tent looks like, but it is rectangular if you saw it from above. They have 2 tent poles, and a door in the center of each short wall. It is about 15 feet wide and 25 feet long. Well, natually you will set it up 'long way' in the wadi (dry river bed). This way if you were walking down the wadi, you could walk through both doors straight through the tent without turning. Most of you probably see the funny part already. Well, we hadn't seen rain in 6 months at this point and forgot it existed. It suddenly poured rain, for about 5 minutes hard, then was gone. Well, with no soil on the 'slopes' the water ran off FAST. In about 2 minutes the wadi changed from absolutely bone dry to a river that was steadily gaining in flow velocity. We ran back to our tents and got out what was left, then spent the next hour or so driving down the wadi looking for rucksacks and dufflebags that were carried off by the current. The water was gone in 15 minutes and even the sand was dry in about 2 hours. Unfortunately for some, clothes can take all day to dry when it's cool outside. As far as equipment goes, rifles can jam more often from the sand, but the dry weather prevents most rust. The sand can make mantinence irritating. Our Hummer's never had a problem with anything really. Maybe a little extra tire wear from all the sharp rocks, but since we didn't drive around all that much it wasn't too big an issue. Plus the tire tread on a hummer is like the rear wheels on a farm tractor, big thick heavy lugs of rubber. They had special sand/desert tires but we never got any (typical, just like my desert boots that were issued to me 3 weeks before coming home, that I still have which are brand new). I already mentioned the things about sand and helicopter blades and engines. Driving over our commo cable tended to cut it in the rocky areas (very irritating if you worked in the battalion commo section, but it didn't annoy me too much, but then motor pool and commo always got the crappy jobs, heh heh heh). Water always had to be trucked in since there was never a local source, plus the US Army rarely trusts a local water source. They let the division supply section collect water, test it for potability and ship it to the units. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:06:00 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: Polish Structures - -----Original Message----- From: Walter Rebsch To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 26 January 2000 20:06 Subject: RE: Polish Structures <<< I think the term 'well sited' was mis-interpreted as 'on a hill'. >>> I was just making the point that what seemed "well sited" 1000 years ago may not seem so obviously well sited now. A GM should be able to come up with a "good" reason for a castle/old fortification to exist at almost any location. With any broad (navigable, consider that 1000 years ago they wouldn't have been able to dredge rivers) river there's examples of a castle being on either (or both) banks. A castle in the middle of nowhere could have been built on an older temple structure where the foundations and stonework were re-used. In the middle of a large town a castle could exist near what was one the town walls. <<< It's pretty obvious why each one is where it's at. They don't just stick them randomly >>> Colchester Castle is a good example of what might appear to be a random castle. It's when you think that the Normans needed a fortification in that area and that in Colchester they could reuse the foundations and stones of a roman construction that the castle then makes sense. What makes it obvious is background details not geography or a clearly old town. That's the sort of thing that a GM can just "make up". <<< I'm sure that most 'nice spots' have or had signficant structures of some sort. >>> In some areas of the UK there's a fair number of old "hill-top" forts. Not a lot, if anything, remains of the structure but the location would make sense to reuse. Anyone know if Poland has similar features? <<< I'm curious what the average distribution of building methods is in Poland. >>> Very good question. Does anybody have sample photos of small villages and farms in Poland? <<< To assist us in our game, my brother bought 4 maps from this place: >>> I use Microsofts Auto Route, very usefull :) Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:11:54 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: morbid question At 02:13 AM 1/26/00 -0800, Peter Vieth wrote: >Er... this is probably an unusual question but legitimate I think. In >the t2k setting something like half the population of the world is >killed. Lots of combatants die. The question must be asked: >Who cleans all bodies up (especially after a battle)? >In Return to Warsaw it says that there will be skeletons everywhere and >the survivors bury them whenever they are reclaiming land. What about >other places? Should the PCs be finding skeletons everywhere? Should >there be a huge rat population (maybe I should start using the disease >rules)? I was thinking of the underground tunnels and remembered that >there were several bunkers near my grandmother's house where the >Russians had charged up a hill late in the war. Lots of Russians died >and were buried in a cemetery nearby. Just wondering what happened to >the Germans and so on. Of course if nuclear weapons were used most >people would probably try to keep away from battle grounds. > Body disposal is usually only a problem when you have a large number of people all dying at once in the same place--in TW:2000, this would be in nuclear strikes and in any plagues that occur. If they can, people tend to bury all the bodies because of the sanitation problems. At this stage of the war, I can't imagine this being a problem--any bodies left exposed will long since have decomposed/been eaten, and all you'll find is skeletons. You'll find skeletons likely in places where mass deaths occurred, or where people died in isolated circumstances. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:00:11 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Polish Structures (now maps) >My aunt recently left to Poland. I'll ask her to bring some road maps >back, then I can scan them in. It'll be a while tho. I have a map of >Dortmund, Germany if anyone is interested. I would cheerfully kill for a good map of Tarnobrzeg on the Vistula and it's environs. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:09:22 +1300 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: Re: Polish Structures (now maps) Hi all, > I would cheerfully kill for a good map of Tarnobrzeg on the Vistula and >it's environs. > Jim This is not exactly what you are after, but if you go to www.mapquest.com you can zoom in to very small-scale online maps ( <100 meters per mm) almost anywhere in the world, and get the 'shape' of the city and its major streets, no buildings though. You can print them out off this site as well. I have got all my T2K maps off here, at a scale of 1 mm = 1 km - the middle scale range of maps available) they even show the farm tracks/dirt roads. Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:12:16 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: morbid question You may also find that the number of funeral pyres increases. Burning of dead bodies is usually an easier way to dispose of some of the diseased bodies. Ballistix > Body disposal is usually only a problem when you have a large number of > people all dying at once in the same place--in TW:2000, this would be in > nuclear strikes and in any plagues that occur. If they can, people tend to > bury all the bodies because of the sanitation problems. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:08:47 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: morbid question Peter Vieth wrote: > > Who cleans all bodies up (especially after a battle)? > Bulldozers and mass graves seem pretty popular in Yugoslavia to all sides ... Thats what the Kuwaiti's did also after the Gulf War, so I hear. By many accounts we left 100000 dead bodies strewn all over Kuwait. I didn't have access to a TV during the gulf war, so I don't know exactly what the TV media covered and what they didn't. And once the war was over, we stopped paying attention to what the media was reporting. Before it was over though it was one of our favorite pass times (other than volleyball and cards of course) to compare what was reported in the media and what came down in the Intell channel. By the way, I hope most of you take what you hear in the media with a giant boulder of salt. Sometimes that ain't even enough... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #89 ************************************