twilight2000-digest Tuesday, January 25 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 088 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Need help in scenario making RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Need help in scenario making RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Need help in scenario making Re: Need help in scenario making RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions Re: Maps of Southern Iraq ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:57:52 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions At 06:31 AM 1/24/00 -0000, Roger Stenning wrote: >Walter said- > >[snip] > >> The Saudi's were amazing to me how incredibly sexist they >> are, and how richeously so (in their minds). They thought we were stupid >to >> put up with women like that. > >[snip] > >That's not surprising, given their Religion, cultural history and heritage. >Remember, over there, it's a mainly Moslem environment. > It's probably more culture than religion--Islam isn't exactly gender-neutral, but I don't it's any worse than traditional Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, or Judaism. There happen to be, however, a few Islamic countries were women are treated particularly deplorably (Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and at least recently, Afghanistan to name some), and Islam is invoked to justify that treatment. >I wasn't there (RMP reserves were not called to serve over there, just >certain elements of our medical regiments, signals, and a couple of other >technical regiment types), but can tell you a thing or two, as I was working >an area of MoD UK concerned with Op DS; This is something that even the >British Army had more than one problem with. Christmas was something our >troops had to celebrate in private, as most Middle Eastern countries have a >religious Police component, charged with enforcing the tenets of the Moslem >Faith - Saudi is not different in this respect. Saudi Arabia is by far the most religiously conservative state in the Middle East--the troops wouldn't have faced such problems in other countries (there are some countries that apply Islamic law in courts, but I'm not sure there are many with actual "religious police"). [Snip.] Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:56:12 PST From: "Dave Hollenbaugh" Subject: Re: Need help in scenario making Hello everyone. I'm relatively new to the list, but have been following it for a few weeks. I haven't played T2000 for a few years, but hope to get back in the swing when I return to the states (currently in Germany). It's nice to know there is still a following. The Iraqi scenario sounds very interesting. You might check out The Fist of God by Frederick Forsythe, about special ops in the Gulf War. It has some info that might help and is very good for general background ( and the hero is British :) ). He's also wrote of The Dog's of War, which was my bible when I used to play Merc 2000. I also have a question for the rest of the list. Are there any good sources online for generic builing floorplans? I've been looking all over and haven't had much luck. Thanks, Dave H. >From: Pietu >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >To: twilight2000@mpgn.com >Subject: Need help in scenario making >Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:36:41 +0200 > >Hi pals > >I am planning a scenario were players are somekind of special recon unit. >Place is a southern iraq in 2001 january and campaing world is merc2000. >The plan is use two fast attack vehicles for movement and recon military >installations including mobile command&control sites where players must try >to steal military documents etc. Insertion is made by helicopters and >supply air-dropings by c-130. I have made mission briefing very carefully >including intelligence photos about target installations. (actually, they >were screen shots from janes f-15 flight sim added with some photoshop >editing.) > >Now, the questions: > >1. I personally do not know much about car mechanics. I like to know >typical mechanical problems/failures, their symptoms, and how they may be >fixed. Something else than flat tyres. According my sources, there was lot >of mechanical problems with fast attack vehicles during gulf war. > >2. Where I can found good (online)maps about sothern iraq? Defence mapping >agency has some very good maps, but they were all in northern iraq. > >Sorry for bad my bad english. > >Pietu >Helsinki >Finland > > > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:00:26 +0900 From: "B Little" Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions >From: Roger Stenning >Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions > >.... > >Never the less, if you're interested, I'd recommend a book by General Sir >Peter De La Billiere, "Storm Command", ISBN 0 00 255138 1, which gives some >more insights into not just the British perspective on the war, but the >conditions that our (and other nation's) troops operated under out there. >Damn good read, FYI! Another good book that also might be of interest to you is "Bravo Two Zero", by Andy McNab. For those who don't know it, details a SAS scud hunt raid behind Iraqi lines. Very good story and very good info on being caught in the desert in bad weather. I don't want to give any of it away, but to me it was a good indication of what players could expect in the deserts of Iran/Iraq. There is also a couple movies that were made recently about this book. I don't remember both titles exactly, but one of them was called "Bravo Two Zero" and starred Sean Bean who was also in the movies Patriot Games and Ronin. Both movies have good footage of the kind of areas being discussed. Blaine Little *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:48:16 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Roger Stenning wrote: > >Walter said- > > > >[snip] > > > >> The Saudi's were amazing to me how incredibly sexist they > >> are, and how richeously so (in their minds). They thought we > were stupid > >to > >> put up with women like that. > > > >[snip] > > > >That's not surprising, given their Religion, cultural history > and heritage. > >Remember, over there, it's a mainly Moslem environment. > > > It's probably more culture than religion--Islam isn't exactly > gender-neutral, but I don't it's any worse than traditional Catholicism, > Eastern Orthodoxy, or Judaism. There happen to be, however, a few Islamic > countries were women are treated particularly deplorably (Sudan, Saudi > Arabia, and at least recently, Afghanistan to name some), and Islam is > invoked to justify that treatment. I was hoping to remain neutral to the religion subject in public (even though privately I have strong feeling, but I will not share them). According to the Saudi's it was definately religion. Of course, that is "according to the Saudi's". Privately we jokingly called the Saudi women 'Ninja women', because of the total black they wore. All you could see is the eyes, and they NEVER actually looked you in the eyes if you passed one on the street. They seemed very secretive and fearful, but that was only my untrained impression. Maybe they were proper and deferent and only my heathen western culture prevented me from realizing this. I don't know how much I want to get into Saudi culture, but I'll say this. Let's please NOT get into a public debate on the rightness/wrongness of what I'm saying. These are simply facts, for info purposes only. I don't care to participate in a any sort of 'we are better than they are' discussion. Now that I've gotten past the disclaimer... We were invited to attend several public executions. I never went, but here are the details for those of you that are interested. Execution is done with a large heavy curved sword beheading the criminal on a little raised stage on the street in front of the crowd. Theives are punished there also, but they get their hand cut off with a little paring knife. A guy or two holds the criminal. Another puts a loop of cord around the wrist and pulls to stretch his wrist a bit. Then another guys walks up and cuts off the hand with a circular stroke. It takes about 2 seconds typically. The guys doing it are very practiced, and the knife is very sharp. He is then handed a rag to cover the stump, the severed hand is thrown in the garbage can and he is allowed to walk home free. Women adulterer's are stoned to death by the crowd. Men cannot be adulterer's or rapists except in unusual circumstances, and then it's not the same penalty. If a married woman is raped, then obviously she must have done something to provoke the man and is thus guilty of seducing someone and is an Adulterer. Maybe this is why they act so fearful and hurry along in little groups. Women cannot ever drive in Saudi (except for foreign soldiers of course, but they draw resentful stares from the Saudi men). Wives of someone who works for ARAMCO stay in the ARAMCO compounds almost exclusively. Saudi is a closed country. You cannot travel there except on offical business of a company that works there, or for holy pilgrimage, or if you are a member of an Army invited by the King to protect the country. Saudi is also a dry country. No alcoholic beverages of any kind, ever. Maybe this is why every Friday night there is a traffic jam of Mercedes's and Limo's on the causeway to Baharain which is more westernized. Not that I am implying that the Saudi's would ever partake in western excesses, or be unhappy with the strict religous lifestyle. I'm 100% sure the nice Saudi's were going to pick up their dry cleaning in Baharain on Friday nights. I still cringe whenever I hear the 'call to prayer' come over a loud speaker. 5 times a day for months on end. While we were in Saudi, there was no offical 'status of forces' agreement between the US and Saudi, which meant that we were technically under local Saudi law. Me and all my buddies made a pact that if any of us were ever threated with arrest by a Saudi police officer ... well ... we had more machineguns than they did. Roger Stenning wrote: > Sadly, I can also confirm the Saudi bad driving habits: One of our other > Sergeants in RMP was killed outright, when his Land Rover (with extra duty > air filter, for the sand) was mashed off the "road" by a Saudi Truck Driver, > who, as I understand it, apparently would not give way, even when he was > supposed to. I agree. Also. There were a couple traffic signals in Daharan that weren't synchronized. By this I mean the Red/Green/Yellow cycle was independant for each crossing road. So it was sometimes green for everyone, and sometimes red for everyone. We learned real fast that green didn't mean go, it meant look ... then maybe go. Most of my other comments about Saudi drivers involve swearing, so I'll spare you all. Every one and his brother had a white toyota mini-truck over there. By the millions. They were everywhere. Yes, the little mini-trucks don't stand a chance when in a wreck with a Hummer. And they turn into little crumpled metal balls when hit by a duece and half. Big trucks you gotta watch out for though... One other thing about the desert heat is vapor lock. This is when the gas in the fuel line boils into vapor. The fuel pump can't pump a vapor so the vehicle stalls. This isn't a problem with Desiel, since it doesn't really boil easily. But occasionally we had to run our Hummers on Jet-A (almost pure Kerosene), and sometimes they would vapor lock on that stuff. I'm sure alcohol would be even worse since it's so light and aromatic. Also, I'm not sure if the rules cover it, but a real duece and a half has a turbo charged inline six cylinder motor that is multifuel. It can run without conversion on almost any fuel. It is optimized for diesel, but just about anything will work. Also, there is an engine wash down kit for the UH-60 helicoopter we had to use about once a week on each engine. Basically you attach the kit and a water hose (about 15 minutes work) and run the motor for about 5 minutes. It'll use about a 100 gallons per wash. Use clean potable water only. Never sea water. The helicopter engines will last much longer. Without it, you can drop the life of the motor by about half. On the OH-58's we had, they just sprayed water into the running engine for about 5 minutes. Works about half as good, but its better than nothing. A pressure washer would have been nicer, but we didn't have any. Gotta run. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:21:57 +0200 From: Pietu Subject: Re: Need help in scenario making At 22:13 23.1.2000 -0800, you wrote: >Pietu wrote: >2. Where I can found good (online)maps about sothern iraq? Defence mapping >agency has some very good maps, but they were all in northern iraq. > >Where did you find maps from the DMA. When I contacted them they said that the >United States Geological Survey handled all maps for them. But the USGS, said >they didn't. >If you have an address e-mail or otherwise or a telephone number, I would love >to have it. >TTFN >Ron hale After long surffing, i found some maps at http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/iraq.html , but there see to be only somekind of samples about northern Iraq. Pietu Helsinki, Finland *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:33:09 +1300 From: Andrew Tiffany Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions > There is also a couple movies that were made recently about this book. I >don't remember both titles exactly, but one of them was called "Bravo Two >Zero" and starred Sean Bean who was also in the movies Patriot Games and >Ronin. Both movies have good footage of the kind of areas being discussed. 'Three Kings' would probably have some good footage of terrain, buildings, etc, even if it was made by Hollywood :-] Cheers Andrew Tiffany *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:21:08 -0500 From: Rob Beck Subject: Re: Need help in scenario making At 10:13 pm 1/23/00 -0800, you wrote: >Where did you find maps from the DMA. When I contacted them they said that the >United States Geological Survey handled all maps for them. But the USGS, said >they didn't. >If you have an address e-mail or otherwise or a telephone number, I would love >to have it. >TTFN >Ron hale Go to a decent map store or bookstore that sells a lot of maps, if you have one in your area. I've been able to order DMA maps through them. I'm pretty sure they get them from USGS. The last thing I ever saw on DMA maps confirms what was said above, that the USGS now handles the sale of them. Rob. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:33:43 -0500 From: Rob Beck Subject: Re: Need help in scenario making At 10:21 pm 1/24/00 +0200, you wrote: >After long surffing, i found some maps at > >http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/iraq.html > >, but there see to be only somekind of samples about northern Iraq. > >Pietu >Helsinki, >Finland Almost forgot who was looking for those maps. My last email was referring to U.S. stores, so it wouldn't do you much good would it? :) Sorry. On a related map note, have any topographic map resources for countries in the former Pact nations become available? I've heard rumblings about them, but have never been able to discover if you can find them in the States. Rob. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:11:12 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions At 07:00 PM 1/24/00 +0900, B Little wrote: > > Another good book that also might be of interest to you is "Bravo Two >Zero", by Andy McNab. For those who don't know it, details a SAS scud hunt >raid behind Iraqi lines. Very good story and very good info on being caught >in the desert in bad weather. I don't want to give any of it away, but to me >it was a good indication of what players could expect in the deserts of >Iran/Iraq. > I'm not sure how much stake I'd place in this book--the word is the guy is a fraud, but I'm afraid I don't know the details. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:44:43 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions At 11:48 AM 1/24/00 -0600, Walter Rebsch wrote: >I still cringe whenever I hear the 'call to prayer' come over a loud >speaker. The call to prayer is the one thing you described that you'd experience in any Islamic country, though I'm not sure it would be over a loudspeaker. :) >Also, I'm not sure if the rules cover it, but a real duece and a half has a >turbo charged inline six cylinder motor that is multifuel. It can run >without conversion on almost any fuel. It is optimized for diesel, but just >about anything will work. > Ooh, interesting info--I think the stats in the rules are for a generic 2 1/2-ton truck, not the U.S. specifically. This would explain the discrepancy (no, in the rules it's not the way you describe). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:20:26 -0600 From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions - ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott David Orr To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 4:11 PM Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions > At 07:00 PM 1/24/00 +0900, B Little wrote: > > > > Another good book that also might be of interest to you is "Bravo Two > >Zero", by Andy McNab. For those who don't know it, details a SAS scud hunt > >raid behind Iraqi lines. Very good story and very good info on being caught > >in the desert in bad weather. I don't want to give any of it away, but to me > >it was a good indication of what players could expect in the deserts of > >Iran/Iraq. > > > I'm not sure how much stake I'd place in this book--the word is the guy is > a fraud, but I'm afraid I don't know the details. > > Scott Orr Having read the book and doing a little research, I tend to believe McNab is the real thing. Chris Ryan, another member of Bravo Two Zero has also written a book accounting some of McNabs story, but with a slightly different twist. (sorry for being vague, but I must in order to not spoil the story for those who may wish to read the book.) Dave *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:02:35 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: Re: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions > At 11:48 AM 1/24/00 -0600, Walter Rebsch wrote: > > >I still cringe whenever I hear the 'call to prayer' come over a loud > >speaker. > > The call to prayer is the one thing you described that you'd experience in > any Islamic country, though I'm not sure it would be over a > loudspeaker. :) They are definately over loudspeakers in Saudi. Everytime you get more than a couple buildings together, they put them up. The first one is like 4 in the morning. The last one is about 10 or 11 at night. I can't remember exactly. They are all over Daharan. Most mosques have a little spire with half a dozen of the damn things at the top pointing in all directions. It's like a national alarm clock or something. When we moved south (I looked it up, where we were at is about a mile west of 'Al Hufuf", but the map I looked at didn't show 'ab-cake', maybe for security reasons), we could easily hear the blaring loudspeakers from the town to the east. Only when we moved north (about 5 miles south of Rafha) did we finally escape it. The 'convoy from hell' at the beginning of the ground war was up to "As Salmon", where we turned east and drove about 25 miles before we stopped and set up operations. Looking at the map again for the first time in years, it looks like I exaggerated a bit. We only made it about a 1/3 of the way to Baghdad before we stoped (not 1/2). For a short period we had a little FOB (Forward Operating Base) near "As Samawah" just south of the Euphrates river, but I never went to it. > >Also, I'm not sure if the rules cover it, but a real duece and a > half has a > >turbo charged inline six cylinder motor that is multifuel. It can run > >without conversion on almost any fuel. It is optimized for > diesel, but just > >about anything will work. > > > Ooh, interesting info--I think the stats in the rules are for a generic 2 > 1/2-ton truck, not the U.S. specifically. This would explain the > discrepancy (no, in the rules it's not the way you describe). > > Scott Orr If your interested, here's a couple other details on the American 2 1/2 ton truck: I believe it's an M35. I think it's in version A6 or something like that. Ancient design. Anyway, all the accessories on the truck are air powered. The brakes, horn, and even the windshield wipers. Near the back on the side is a drain valve for the air tanks. If you are driving at night in the winter when it's cold, then stop and forget to drain the air tank (noisy), if the tanks get really hot from sunshine the next afternoon, a pressure relief valve can suddenly pop open to releive the extra pressure (very noisy and startling if you never heard it before and are laying right beside the truck trying to catch a nap in the afternoon). That's if one is installed and it isn't jammed. Otherwise, it's possible the tanks could burst. I've never actually heard of one bursting, but they say it happens every once in a while. Maybe if it's old and rusty, you'd have a higher chance. A hit in the near the suspension in the back could puncture the air tank and cause you to loose the brakes, horn, wipers. There is also a place to attach an air hose near the back, and you can run air tools (if you have any). The air compressor always (and only) comes on whenever the engine in running. They are old slow irritating beasts to drive, but are pretty reliable and rarely ever get stuck by bad terrain. I've seen them drive over all kinds of crap you'd say it would never make it through. Personally I hate driving them because it's such a workout. Power steering? Hah! Just a big 'ol 2 1/2 foot diameter steering wheel that you gotta turn 3 times to make a sharp turn. If you got a wounded foot/leg, don't expect to stop the thing either. The necessary brake pedal pressure is the heaviest of any vehicle I've ever driven. Sometimes I wondered if the brakes really were air brakes, or if I was manually stopping the damn truck. Some yahoo engineer with 15 degrees probably designed a semi-truck suspension spring to put under the brake peda l. By the way, the Hummer is exactly the opposite. It's power brakes are so touchy and powerful, you gotta really simmer down if you don't want to lock the wheels every time you stop. You can always tell someone who is new to driving a Hummer from how they brake. It takes a VERY light touch. The power steering is perfect though. I've only ever seen 2 Hummers stuck by terrain they were driving through. If you had the traction, when you put the Hummer in low, I'd swear you could pull an ocean liner up on the beach. Only about 190 horse, but more torque than you can shake a stick at. It's really quick from 0-30, but after that ... well ... top speed is only about 85 to 90. Even with the gas floored and on a down slope, you aren't getting it over 90. At least not the one I had. Not that I would ever mishandle gov't property that way ... :) Also a little tid-bit since I'm on a roll on vehicles. You can't drive a duece and a half through concertina wire. At least not very far anyway. On an excersise in Ft. Bragg, one of our motor pool guys decided to drive through some. Bad Idea. In fact very bad idea. At first it seems like your just going to drive right over it. Then it digs into the tires and starts wrapping itself around the axil. Tighter and tighter it gets. Deeper and deeper into the tires the wire goes. Finally after about 50-100 feet the front wheels lock. And they aren't going to move again until you spend a couple hours under the thing with wire cutters. And be careful what wire you cut! That stuff is under such tension, that it will jump at you and tear a hole through whatever part of you it hits. Don't even think about trying to salvage the shreaded tires. He caught a good ass chewing for that one. At night you can't see concertina wire unless you drive slow with headlights on. Not that I even know why the military installs headlights, we could almost never use them. I bet you could stop virtually any wheeled vehicle with a roll of concertina wire, as long as the bumper isn't so low that it can't get at the wheels. Nasty stuff. I've ruined more uniforms to that stuff than our paltry 'clothing allowance' could buy in 50 years. Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:01:30 -0500 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions Subject: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions > At 11:48 AM 1/24/00 -0600, Walter Rebsch wrote: > > >I still cringe whenever I hear the 'call to prayer' come over a loud > >speaker. > > The call to prayer is the one thing you described that you'd experience in > any Islamic country, though I'm not sure it would be over a loudspeaker. :) Having been their, they close up shop, find a comfy and non obtrusive place for prayer, prayers come over the loud speakers. 4 times a day, I forget when. They have just as many who don't observe as do observe but the closings and public speaker use is very common. Serving on a Saudi Frigate for about a week it was common to not see the practisers during the 30 or so minutes of prayers that were recorded on cassette. I'm not scholar on Islam and am only stating observations on the few visits I made to Jeda and my time aboard their ship. These are my recolections and may not be entirely accurate. > >Also, I'm not sure if the rules cover it, but a real duece and a half has a > >turbo charged inline six cylinder motor that is multifuel. It can run > >without conversion on almost any fuel. It is optimized for diesel, but just > >about anything will work. > > > Ooh, interesting info--I think the stats in the rules are for a generic 2 > 1/2-ton truck, not the U.S. specifically. This would explain the > discrepancy (no, in the rules it's not the way you describe). I keep hearing that from what I think are reliable sources yet have never found it in print. I included it anyway. Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:21:34 -0500 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions Thanks Walter tons of good gouge. Loonz - ----- Original Message ----- From: Walter Rebsch To: Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 9:02 PM Subject: Re: RE: Saudi/Iraq Questions > > At 11:48 AM 1/24/00 -0600, Walter Rebsch wrote: > > > > >I still cringe whenever I hear the 'call to prayer' come over a loud > > >speaker. > > > > The call to prayer is the one thing you described that you'd experience in > > any Islamic country, though I'm not sure it would be over a > > loudspeaker. :) > > They are definately over loudspeakers in Saudi. Everytime you get more than > a couple buildings together, they put them up. The first one is like 4 in > the morning. The last one is about 10 or 11 at night. I can't remember > exactly. They are all over Daharan. Most mosques have a little spire with > half a dozen of the damn things at the top pointing in all directions. It's > like a national alarm clock or something. > > When we moved south (I looked it up, where we were at is about a mile west > of 'Al Hufuf", but the map I looked at didn't show 'ab-cake', maybe for > security reasons), we could easily hear the blaring loudspeakers from the > town to the east. Only when we moved north (about 5 miles south of Rafha) > did we finally escape it. The 'convoy from hell' at the beginning of the > ground war was up to "As Salmon", where we turned east and drove about 25 > miles before we stopped and set up operations. Looking at the map again for > the first time in years, it looks like I exaggerated a bit. We only made it > about a 1/3 of the way to Baghdad before we stoped (not 1/2). For a short > period we had a little FOB (Forward Operating Base) near "As Samawah" just > south of the Euphrates river, but I never went to it. > > > >Also, I'm not sure if the rules cover it, but a real duece and a > > half has a > > >turbo charged inline six cylinder motor that is multifuel. It can run > > >without conversion on almost any fuel. It is optimized for > > diesel, but just > > >about anything will work. > > > > > Ooh, interesting info--I think the stats in the rules are for a generic 2 > > 1/2-ton truck, not the U.S. specifically. This would explain the > > discrepancy (no, in the rules it's not the way you describe). > > > > Scott Orr > > If your interested, here's a couple other details on the American 2 1/2 ton > truck: I believe it's an M35. I think it's in version A6 or something like > that. Ancient design. > > Anyway, all the accessories on the truck are air powered. The brakes, horn, > and even the windshield wipers. Near the back on the side is a drain valve > for the air tanks. If you are driving at night in the winter when it's > cold, then stop and forget to drain the air tank (noisy), if the tanks get > really hot from sunshine the next afternoon, a pressure relief valve can > suddenly pop open to releive the extra pressure (very noisy and startling if > you never heard it before and are laying right beside the truck trying to > catch a nap in the afternoon). That's if one is installed and it isn't > jammed. Otherwise, it's possible the tanks could burst. I've never > actually heard of one bursting, but they say it happens every once in a > while. Maybe if it's old and rusty, you'd have a higher chance. A hit in > the near the suspension in the back could puncture the air tank and cause > you to loose the brakes, horn, wipers. There is also a place to attach an > air hose near the back, and you can run air tools (if you have any). The > air compressor always (and only) comes on whenever the engine in running. > > They are old slow irritating beasts to drive, but are pretty reliable and > rarely ever get stuck by bad terrain. I've seen them drive over all kinds > of crap you'd say it would never make it through. Personally I hate driving > them because it's such a workout. Power steering? Hah! Just a big 'ol 2 > 1/2 foot diameter steering wheel that you gotta turn 3 times to make a sharp > turn. If you got a wounded foot/leg, don't expect to stop the thing either. > The necessary brake pedal pressure is the heaviest of any vehicle I've ever > driven. Sometimes I wondered if the brakes really were air brakes, or if I > was manually stopping the damn truck. Some yahoo engineer with 15 degrees > probably designed a semi-truck suspension spring to put under the brake peda > l. > > By the way, the Hummer is exactly the opposite. It's power brakes are so > touchy and powerful, you gotta really simmer down if you don't want to lock > the wheels every time you stop. You can always tell someone who is new to > driving a Hummer from how they brake. It takes a VERY light touch. The > power steering is perfect though. I've only ever seen 2 Hummers stuck by > terrain they were driving through. If you had the traction, when you put > the Hummer in low, I'd swear you could pull an ocean liner up on the beach. > Only about 190 horse, but more torque than you can shake a stick at. It's > really quick from 0-30, but after that ... well ... top speed is only about > 85 to 90. Even with the gas floored and on a down slope, you aren't getting > it over 90. At least not the one I had. Not that I would ever mishandle > gov't property that way ... :) > > Also a little tid-bit since I'm on a roll on vehicles. You can't drive a > duece and a half through concertina wire. At least not very far anyway. On > an excersise in Ft. Bragg, one of our motor pool guys decided to drive > through some. Bad Idea. In fact very bad idea. At first it seems like > your just going to drive right over it. Then it digs into the tires and > starts wrapping itself around the axil. Tighter and tighter it gets. > Deeper and deeper into the tires the wire goes. Finally after about 50-100 > feet the front wheels lock. And they aren't going to move again until you > spend a couple hours under the thing with wire cutters. And be careful what > wire you cut! That stuff is under such tension, that it will jump at you > and tear a hole through whatever part of you it hits. Don't even think > about trying to salvage the shreaded tires. He caught a good ass chewing > for that one. At night you can't see concertina wire unless you drive slow > with headlights on. Not that I even know why the military installs > headlights, we could almost never use them. I bet you could stop virtually > any wheeled vehicle with a roll of concertina wire, as long as the bumper > isn't so low that it can't get at the wheels. Nasty stuff. I've ruined > more uniforms to that stuff than our paltry 'clothing allowance' could buy > in 50 years. > > Walter > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:49:25 -0700 From: "JC" Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions >'Three Kings' would probably have some good footage of terrain, buildings, >etc, even if it was made by Hollywood :-] > Not sure how accurate the terrain would be since they filmed that near where I live, right outside of Tucson. JC *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:13:33 -0600 From: Rob Barnes Subject: Re: Saudi/Iraq Questions I've lived in both Tucson and Saudi Arabia. There are important differences, but they do look similar in many respects. - -Rob JC wrote: > >'Three Kings' would probably have some good footage of terrain, buildings, > >etc, even if it was made by Hollywood :-] > > > > Not sure how accurate the terrain would be since they filmed that near where > I live, right outside of Tucson. > > JC > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:30:41 +0000 From: "Resnick Family" Subject: Re: Maps of Southern Iraq I've been running FGU's Merc for a while, and I've found the university of Texas has the best collection of maps I've ever found. >From tactical pilotage charts to plain old political maps, they've got everything I've been looking for. Here's the URL: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/Map_collection.html Most of the maps are too large to print on one 8 1/2 / 11 piece of paper, but I've used several commercial graphics programs to fit them to one sheet of paper, and they are still useful in this size. I also printed one of them as is, as a test, and the tactical pilotage chart I chose took up 8-9 pages of 8/12-11. I used a HP deskjet color ink jet printer, and they came out well. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #88 ************************************