twilight2000-digest Wednesday, January 19 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 085 The following topics are covered in this digest: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: for the programmers Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: New version of Twilight 2000 Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 RE: for the programmers Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 New version of Twilight 2000 Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: New version of Twilight 2000 Re: New version of Twilight 2000 America is #1(off topic for this list) Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) '2K (Was off topic for this list) Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:26:02 GMT From: "Charles York" Subject: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 I agree with Rob Barnes that T2k is dead, commercially speaking- at least for Tanthalus. If one were to market this publication today, there are 3 potential paths to follow: 1) Extend the date ahead, as Mr. Barnes suggested, develop a new timeline, add bleeding-edge technology, and revise the rules system. 2) Revise the timeline to be a true heating up of the old cold war- making it an "alternate history" game instead of an "alternate future." Here, the vehicles would (more-or-less) follow real developments (perhaps accelerated in development). or 3) Allow for a multitude of "modern war gaming" scenarios- each sharing a core rules system & common equipment available (based on a timeline ), but with different setting material. (Similar to the Twilight / Mercs / Asteroid Impact / Near Future model that was proposed in the back page of the T2K version 2.2 rulebook. When you think of it, what can Tanthalus really hold a copyright on? The Title? Most likely, the advantages of name recognition aside, T2K wouldn't necessarily be applicable to the settings listed above. The Equipment? They represent real material existing in our world, so while the rules abstractions (see below) are Tanthalus', the gear is free to be duplicated. The Storyline? Both of the above instances include a new timeline / series of events. Neither would be claimable by Tanthalus. The Genre? Nobody can claim full copyright on any genre, whether a post-apocalyptic modern military genre or elves, dwarves, dragons, & magic. That leaves-- The Rules. Granted, it's a big one, but how many people out there have already exported this game to another rules system, whether RoleMaster, GURPS, or whatever. In essence, if you've abandoned the T2K rules system & developed your own chain of events- your game is independent of T2K and free of Tanthalus' copyright restrictions (to be replaced with those of whatever game system you chose- so choose wisely & find one that appreciates "fan" web pages.) So, what would a license from Tanthalus give a fledgling gaming company? A title that may or may not be appropriate, a storyline that will be re-defined, and a rules system that (from what I've seen from the house rules out there)will have to be revised & play-tested (though this will still be less expensive than developing and testing a new rules engine). Is such a product worth the cost to license it? My guess is it isn't, and the next good post-WWIII genre game with the feel of T2K won't carry the title, use the rules, or have the classic final orders of, "Good luck, you're on your own." Chad York aka Chas aka Chuck aka Charles aka flatline aka Walt aka Web aka hey you! aka #%!@!&&%# -from less friendly sorts. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 06:51:00 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 >So, what would a license from Tanthalus give a fledgling gaming company? A >title that may or may not be appropriate, a storyline that will be >re-defined, and a rules system that (from what I've seen from the house >rules out there)will have to be revised & play-tested (though this will >still be less expensive than developing and testing a new rules engine). Is >such a product worth the cost to license it? >Chad York As has been said before, it does stop them sueing the crap out of you even though they know they can't win. An established company can blow money in a court case if they bankrupt the opponent, as long as it doesn't go over a set percentage of what they paid for the rights in the first place. If someone else comes along and uses a better rules system (not hard) then they've blown a wad of bills on something that is useless, they'd Have to take you to court on the chance that they could recoup some of they're losses. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:31:22 -0600 From: Steve Chymy Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 > > As has been said before, it does stop them sueing the crap out of you > even though they know they can't win. An established company can blow money > in a court case if they bankrupt the opponent, as long as it doesn't go over > a set percentage of what they paid for the rights in the first place. If > someone else comes along and uses a better rules system (not hard) then > they've blown a wad of bills on something that is useless, they'd Have to > take you to court on the chance that they could recoup some of they're > losses. > Jim > It just seems to me that they would not have a case, (keep in mind that the law in Canada is different the the U.S), in this type of legal action. If Tantalu sued us in Canadian court and they could not prove their case, then they become responsible for all of my legal expenses. So perhaps, the approach would be to develop the new game out side of the U.S., correct me if I am wrong. Steve *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:41:20 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: for the programmers - -----Original Message----- From: Peter Vieth To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 17 January 2000 08:23 Subject: for the programmers >Does any of you know how I could generate random height maps? Overlapping multiple waves can produce some nice effects. Use a grid and run the waves along each of the grid lines. Where a wave meets a point that's allready had another wave run through it add the two wave values together. I did that once many years ago and it produced some quite reasonable effects. Keep the height of the waves low and you get a nice rolling countryside. Anyhow that's my contribution..... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:32:52 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 > It just seems to me that they would not have a case, (keep in mind that the >law in Canada is different the the U.S), in this type of legal action. If >Tantalu sued us in Canadian court and they could not prove their case, then they >become responsible for all of my legal expenses. So perhaps, the approach would >be to develop the new game out side of the U.S., correct me if I am wrong. > >Steve I'm not a lawyer but what happens if the defendant runs out of money mid-way through the court case? Then they may never make it as far as the stage of claiming the money back. Particularly if the defendant is a company they may be liable to loss of their backers. For example they could see their share price plummet as people rush to abandon what they perceive to be a helpless case. I've definately heard of cases where bigger companies will drag a smaller company to court and bankrupt them in the process before any judgement is reached. It depends on how vindictive they are, anyone have an opinion on Tantalus? Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:32:39 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 At 03:31 PM 1/18/00 -0600, Steve Chymy wrote: > > > >> >> As has been said before, it does stop them sueing the crap out of you >> even though they know they can't win. An established company can blow money >> in a court case if they bankrupt the opponent, as long as it doesn't go over >> a set percentage of what they paid for the rights in the first place. If >> someone else comes along and uses a better rules system (not hard) then >> they've blown a wad of bills on something that is useless, they'd Have to >> take you to court on the chance that they could recoup some of they're >> losses. >> Jim >> > > It just seems to me that they would not have a case, (keep in mind that the >law in Canada is different the the U.S), in this type of legal action. If >Tantalu sued us in Canadian court and they could not prove their case, then they >become responsible for all of my legal expenses. So perhaps, the approach would >be to develop the new game out side of the U.S., correct me if I am wrong. > That would be the "spoils system"--the method used in Canada and Britain to prevent the poor from suing thier betters. :) It's not the case in the U.S., and developing your product outside the U.S. doesn't guarantee that you won't have to answer in U.S. courts, if the aggreived party is in the U.S. and/or you plan to sell in the U.S. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 15:10:01 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: New version of Twilight 2000 Hi, Rob! Trying to kill the keyboard, Rob Barnes (robwbarnes@worldnet.att.net) produced 3,1K in 67 lines: > That doesn't mean those of use who but if we want to see a good > military/post-holocaust type RPG on the market anytime soon, I think we'd be > better off trying to convince one of the existing RPG companies to make one, > rather than trying to revive T2K. Or even, create one your/ourselves. Either for sale (which probably needs a publishing company) or just use the internet and allow people to download and use (and even expand) it, but not to sell it for profit[1]. It's not an unheard of concept, ISTR Fudge being aviable for free on the internet, but also as a paper version. [1] unless they have an agreement with (all) the authors. You'd not want some ripoff company to get rich without giving back anything ... - -Wolfgang *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:42:53 GMT From: "Charles York" Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 > As has been said before, it does stop them sueing the crap out of you >even though they know they can't win. An established company can blow money >in a court case if they bankrupt the opponent, as long as it doesn't go >over >a set percentage of what they paid for the rights in the first place. If >someone else comes along and uses a better rules system (not hard) then >they've blown a wad of bills on something that is useless, they'd Have to >take you to court on the chance that they could recoup some of they're >losses. > Jim > Agreed, malicious litigation is nothing new - there is a way to minimize the risk, though: Begin with a web-based project- fully isolated from any real T2K copyrightable material, as identified in my earlier post. As it's free access, Tanthalus can sue (based on copyright infringement) to remove the material from the web. This is a cessation hearing, and if the web publisher's found at fault, there are no damages to be paid when the site's removed (as no current publications are for sale, the web site didn't detract from current sales of Tanthalus' product. With the web site down, there is no devaluation of the T2k license- in fact, the garnering of new interest int he field may increase it!) Most likely, the cessation of distribution hearing goes against Tanthalus, (and, yes, they have "limited" appeals, but for these cases, the appeals rarely overturn the lower decision and the expense is largely theirs.) Now, the same publishing party that did the web site makes an expanded printed version of their game for sale. Tanthalus can try to sue for another cessation and for additional damages (based on the profits from the infringement) But, since another court ruled earlier that the same material was not a copyright infringement, such a suit is enough to warrant the civil equivalent of a "malicious prosecution" countercharge. That runs a pretty stiff penalty, though is difficult to prove (the earlier court decision helps considerably to bolster this charge & ensure it won't be dismissed) Once a case of legal bullying (for lack of the technical term) is brought, civilian watchdog groups often get involved, bringing a larger war chest to the upstart. Now Tanthalus is faced with some choices- a) Drop the suit, lose the $$ paid for T2K- letting it die. b) Continue the suit, most likely losing, with the added risk of the "legal bullying" charge (which would require them to pay legal costs for both sides AND pay severe penalties. c) Hope they can settle out of court- they may offer to "sell" the license for a reasonable price for a dropping of all charges. d) Drop the suit, run re-published T2k material hoping to capitalize what they can from the situation- by competing against the upstart. Again, it's been years since I actively studied biz law, but I do recall precedent for this kind of maneuver (without the web part). But law isn't really the topic of this discussion group. Chad aka Chas aka Chuck aka Charles aka Walt aka Web aka flatline aka hey you! aka #%!@!&&%# -from less friendly sorts. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:38:23 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: for the programmers > > Does any of you know how I could generate random height maps? > All of the good ones I've seen use a fractal engine. I won't bore the majority of you by getting into fractal theory, but you'll need to learn at least a little of it if you want something realistic looking. Search on the web for fractal and landscape (maybe add rendering, virtual, or algorithm to that if you want to narrow it more). Or if you don't like searching yourself, try this place: http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-08-1998/jw-08-step.html It's java code (juk!), but it's a start. To make a use-able map you'll need a math transform to change the terrain data array into a contour map, but that shouldn't be that hard to come up with. Good luck! Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:43:54 EST From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 Are they still makeing money on what's out there in print already?I mean there is still some of the old games and advetures out there.If you look.So are they loseing money or still makeing it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 21:42:57 -0500 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: New version of Twilight 2000 i think they would have a tough case to prove if the author did not use the same background or any of the rules. they can't stop someone making a modern combat game. if that were the case every techno thriller author would be sueing each other over genre. if a company uses it's own rules and own background i don't see anyone having a case against them. look at the different cyberpunk games that sprung up, or all the fanatsy and japanese style games. different rules and background but same genre. aaron *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 19:41:53 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Cook?= Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 everything out there is out of print. that means it has long been paid for by whatever store/warehouse you find it in. Tantalus hasn't made a cent off of t2k. Michael Cook. - --- MOrab46019@aol.com wrote: > Are they still makeing money on what's out there in > print already?I mean > there is still some of the old games and advetures > out there.If you look.So > are they loseing money or still makeing it? > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body > of the message. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:09:36 -0600 From: Steve Chymy Subject: Re: New version of Twilight 2000 Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: > Hi, Rob! > > Trying to kill the keyboard, Rob Barnes > (robwbarnes@worldnet.att.net) produced 3,1K in 67 lines: > > > That doesn't mean those of use who but if we want to see a good > > military/post-holocaust type RPG on the market anytime soon, I think we'd be > > better off trying to convince one of the existing RPG companies to make one, > > rather than trying to revive T2K. > > Or even, create one your/ourselves. Either for sale (which > probably needs a publishing company) or just use the internet > and allow people to download and use (and even expand) it, > but not to sell it for profit[1]. It's not an unheard of > concept, ISTR Fudge being aviable for free on the internet, > but also as a paper version. > > [1] unless they have an agreement with (all) the authors. > You'd not want some ripoff company to get rich without > giving back anything ... > > -Wolfgang > Look at the Linux operating system, it is very successful and it is an open source operating system developed over the net, that you can download for free. A company in the U.S. called Red Hat software bundles the free software with upgrades for about $50.00 and makes a profit!! Most Unix systems cost thousands of dollars. I have used HP, IBM and SCO unix and have to admit that Linux is a very viable platform. Steve. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:05:45 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: New version of Twilight 2000 Hi, Steve! Trying to kill the keyboard, Steve Chymy (schymy@autobahn.mb.ca) produced 1,5K in 43 lines: > Look at the Linux operating system, Guess what I use practically exclusively. > it is very successful and it is an open > source operating system developed over the net, that you can download for free. A > company in the U.S. called Red Hat software bundles the free software with upgrades > for about $50.00 and makes a profit!! Other companies charge less and sometimes offer even more ... and still grow like mad. Still others sell the GPL ( == free as in free speech) parts of these compilations for $1.95 per CD. Both SuSE and Red Hat compilations (which is what they really charge for) can be downloaded from the WWW, even from the distributors themselves. Oh, and if you buy or lend one copy, you can use it on as many computers as you like ... > I have used HP, IBM and SCO unix and have to admit that Linux is a very viable > platform. And then there is FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and the commercial variant, BSDi ... - -Wolfgang *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:49:12 -0700 From: Jim Subject: America is #1(off topic for this list) I know that this doesn't really apply to our list. So forgive me for going off topic. > > This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. > > America: The Good Neighbor. > > Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a > remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a > Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his > trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: > > "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as > the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the > earth. > > Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted > out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of > dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is > today > paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. > > When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the > Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and > swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. > > When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that > hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened > by tornadoes. Nobody helped. > > The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars > into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are > writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. > > I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over > the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does > any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo > Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas 10? If so, why don't they > fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American > Planes? > > Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman > on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. > You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk > about American technocracy, and you find men >on the moon - not once, > but several times and safely home again. > > You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the > store window for everybody to look a. Even their draft-dodgers are > not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of > them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American > dollars > from ma and pa at home to spend here. > > When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down > through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the > Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned > them an old caboose. Both are still broke. > > I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of > other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone > else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside > help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced > it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get > kicked around. > > They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they > do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating > over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." > > Stand proud, Americans. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 22:12:38 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Jim, I'm sorry but you are right I do not find this to be acceptable posting. I see nothing wrong with patriotism, but I do think that considering that there is more than one nationality on this list, then political and patriot type remarks should be left off it. There are three subjects you should always avoid: 1) Politics 2) Religion 3) Sex All three end usually in arguments, and most of the time are what start wars in the first place. That's my 2 cents worth. Ballistix *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:03:05 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: '2K (Was off topic for this list) - -----Original Message----- From: Ballistix There are three subjects you should always avoid: 1) Politics 2) Religion 3) Sex All three end usually in arguments, and most of the time are what start wars in the first place. >Ballistix I know you are politely telling all of us to stay on topic, but don't worry too much about our sensibilities. If we do not like a piece we'll just delete it. Responding to an "off-topic" only assures that it will continue... >(WARNING SARCASM FOLLOWS! THE HUMOROUSLY CHALLENGED SHOULD READ _NO_ FURTHER.) >LOOK I'M NOT KIDDING! STOP! I MEAN IT! >If "The List" made sure that the above three topics were sufficiently "fleshed" out in the background for the new Post-Tantalus (sans "T" so just '2K ;) modern/future RPG, we could assure that this new game would have an audience among the buying gaming public. Such a realistic background might even get a few thin skinned gamers -who may not appreciate unabashedly Ameri-centric Canadians- to plop down some cash 'ey? (American green backs only please;) Abel (COO-OOO, Coo-coo-coo-coo Coo-coo;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:45:40 -0000 From: "Mark Oliver" Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) I've got to back up Ballistix and agree that I don't find this an acceptable posting for this list. Perhaps I should retaliate and post up a big article on how great us English people are despite being blamed by Holywood for everything from the loss of the Titanic to ordering the Death Star to blow up Alderan. We all think that our own countries are, all things considered, the best place to live. There's no point debating it because if any of us didn't feel that way we'd emigrate. All of our countries get knocked and/or praised by various people at various times, there's nowt to be gained by posting them on here though. Regards, Mark - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim To: Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 3:49 PM Subject: America is #1(off topic for this list) > > I know that this doesn't really apply to our list. > So forgive me for going off topic. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 22:39:22 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Mark Oliver wrote: > Perhaps I should retaliate and post up a big article on how great us English > people are despite being blamed by Holywood for everything from the loss of > the Titanic to ordering the Death Star to blow up Alderan. > Nobody seems to take note that all the Imperials have English accents :) or that they all have the same scream :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:33:19 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 > I'm not a lawyer but what happens if the defendant runs out of > money mid-way through the court case? Then they may never make it as far as the stage of > claiming the money back. I forget the term for them, but there are lawyers who specialize in these kinds of cases. They charge very little up front, and then rely on winning the case to get their pay from the opponent. They only want to take cases that are pretty air-tight though, for obvious reasons. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 13:46:57 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) > Perhaps I should retaliate and post up a big article on how great us English > people are despite being blamed by Holywood for everything from the loss of > the Titanic to ordering the Death Star to blow up Alderan. Well...aren't you? ;) All of us rightwing, zorasterian, tri-sexuals wanna hear about this stuff!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:17:58 -0600 From: "ddolllaw" Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Baumgartner" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 2:33 PM Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 > > I'm not a lawyer but what happens if the defendant runs out of > > money mid-way through the court case? Then they may never > make it as far as the stage of > > claiming the money back. > > I forget the term for them, but there are lawyers who specialize > in these kinds of cases. They charge very little up front, and > then rely on winning the case to get their pay from the > opponent. They only want to take cases that are pretty > air-tight though, for obvious reasons. > __________________________________________________ Josh, It's called working on a contingency basis, we, yes I am one of the evil breed, usually don't charge filing fees until the case has to be filed, and if we drop the case without filing we don't recover for the time we put in on the case. Most personal injury or worker's compensation attorney's work on this basis. Lawstcause *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 19:33:06 EST From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) Look I know it was off target and he said so.I have to say thanks.I like it.I have been asking myself that question.This is the first time I heard someone speak up for us.Prim Britan did When Heather was in.But hearing someone from the press to say something nice about us.It makes me happy.Thank you.For the artical. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 16:35:43 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 > Josh, > It's called working on a contingency basis Thanks, I couldn't put my finger on the term. I hear about it all the time in civil suits, class-actions and the like. Do you think it would be likely to get one to work like that on the behalf of a case like we are talking about? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:41:53 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) <<< Nobody seems to take note that all the Imperials have English accents :) or that , they all have the same scream :) >>> It's always us who are the villains :( If Holywood wants a bad guy then it's an Englishman who'll get the role, even in a Galaxy far, far, away. Then again the Imperial Admiral that Darth Vader killed for coming out of hyperspace too early was also a teacher on a long running BBC kids TV show and whenever we watch ESB we all go, "Look! It's Mr Bronson!", well I guess you have to be British. How seriously can you take a villain after watching him on Kids TV :) When an Englishman is a good guy, heh it does happen!, Holywood will then rewrite the story to remove him anyway :( Watch out for a film out this summer that totally repaints the story of how the Allies got their hands on an Enigma machine in WW2. The British sailor that really did it is still alive and I bet he's got the hump that his part in it is totally ignored. Can I mail a big long story about trying to buck up the English now? I think I've shown we've been sufficiently victimised. Sorry, really getting off of topic now..... Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:43:51 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 - ----Original Message----- From: Josh Baumgartner To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 19 January 2000 20:40 Subject: Re: Reality Check: was Re:New version of Twilight 2000 >I forget the term for them, but there are lawyers who specialize >in these kinds of cases. They charge very little up front, and >then rely on winning the case to get their pay from the >opponent. They only want to take cases that are pretty >air-tight though, for obvious reasons. I know there are "no win no fee" lawyers, it's becoming increasingly common in the UK. However they normally would take me on if I were the one sueing Tantalus for something (like maybe not putting a "do not attempt to set fire to this box and eat it" warning on the side of the box after I've turned up at Casualty with singed tonsils). Would they take the case if Tantalus sued me? There are after all no damages for them to claim a share of just "costs". Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2000 00:45:52 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) - -----Original Message----- From: Ray Wiberg To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 19 January 2000 21:49 Subject: Re: America is #1(off topic for this list) >> Perhaps I should retaliate and post up a big article on how great us English >> people are despite being blamed by Holywood for everything from the loss of >> the Titanic to ordering the Death Star to blow up Alderan. > >Well...aren't you? ;) Well the nationality of the Iceberg that struck the Titanic would be up for some debate. It must have departed the North Pole Icecap without an exit Visa so is that nation to blame? As for Alderan, well Tarkin was ordered to do it by his boss, who was the Emperor, who was played by an English Actor, DOH! That's that defence ruined then..... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #85 ************************************