twilight2000-digest Friday, January 7 2000 Volume 1999 : Number 080 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Tigers Re: Tigers My homepage TW2K PBEM / online game Re: Biological warfare Re: Need tw2000 web sites addresses Re: Pilots Vest Re: Groups Re: Tigers heral tea and other things that stink re herbal tea and other things that stin Re: Tigers and The Way We Play Re: Need tw2000 web sites addresses Re: Tigers and The Way We Play RE: Tigers and The Way We Play Re: Tigers and the way we play Re: Tigers Re: re herbal tea and other things that stin Re: Tigers and The Way We Play Snipers in other armies RE: Snipers in other armies Re: Tigers and The Way We Play Re: Snipers in other armies Re: Tigers Ferdinands. Way We Play Re: Need tw2000 web sites addresses Re: Snipers in other armies Re: Pilots Vest ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:29:21 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Tigers At 07:24 PM 1/6/00 EST, MOrab46019@aol.com wrote: >Ok either way both tanks got better over time of battle untill the end.Would >you agree. Yes, sure--though this in itself was a problem for the Germans: they produced things in such small runs, with minor improvements from one model to the next, that they didn't enjoy the full benefits of mass production enjoyed by the Allies. (And can you imagine being in charge of the motor pool for a German panzer division and having to keep up with spare parts for all those different types of vehicles? *shudder* Of course, historical accounts indicate they somehow succeeded at this quite well.) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:26:16 EST From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Tigers That's right.But some books I have read also put both words under the pic I saw. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 12:09:14 +0100 From: Antenna Subject: My homepage My homepage http://members.xoom.com/T2kilo/ Antti 'Antenna' Henttu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 06:59:12 EST From: Papakee@aol.com Subject: TW2K PBEM / online game Hi, I'm thinking of starting a PBEM or online game and was wondering if there would be any interest. The setting would be the US gulf coast. Let me know at papakee@aol.com if you are interested. - -Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:32:15 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Biological warfare Ray Wiberg wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jan 2000 CMarkChester@aol.com wrote: > > > I would have believed that Biological Weapons would have been launched either > > just before, or after a Nuclear Attack (on this time line 1997.) So by the > > time that the characters come into being, the effects of any Biological > > weapons may have been diminished and by 2000 you would be seeing the tail-end > > of any effect (much the same as for the Nuclear/Radiation effects, ie the > > plagues, and other dieseases that the characters see whilst on an adventure, > > may not just be a natural occurance of 4-5 years of War (including Nuclear > > devastation), > > Disease will flourish in an environment lacking in proper sanitation and > body disposal. In fact, we weak 1st worlders would be most hit due to our > weak (in comparison) immune systems (I am not talking about Polio and > other vaccination type diseases, but more food poisoning, parasites, etc). > As to radiation, while true that the nasty isotopes die out fast, the > fallout (limited exchange or no) will have long lasting effects. The > secondary kill will go on for quite some time as people affected intially > by blasts and exposure die of complications years later. Don't forget > about radioactive concentration along the foodchain as well, even weak > isotopes in great concentrations might pose issues, esp in bad fallout > zones. :) Yes, the concentration of harmful materials will increase along energy levels-- and guess who is usually at the end? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:32:34 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: Need tw2000 web sites addresses - ----Original Message----- From: Pietu To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: 06 January 2000 22:44 Subject: Need tw2000 web sites addresses >if you had a homepage relative to TW2000 can you please sent URLs to me? >I am really interested about them. www.visitweb.com/twilight2000 Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:32:05 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: Pilots Vest It's an old mail but I've got a bit of catching up to do..... - -----Original Message----- From: rogue09@sprynet.com To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 28 December 1999 04:34 Subject: Re: Pilots Vest >They also used to call em the "May West Vest" back in the 60's... It would have been the Mae West vest, named after the actress. Apparently when wearing the life jacket you possessed a, shall we say, somewhat similar profile..... The name definately dates back as far as the RAF in the 1940s. Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:19:59 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: Groups <<< What are a few good ways of finding some local players to add to my campaign? >>> Not sure how useful it'll be but if you check the resource list out at www.visitweb.com/twilight2000 it might be a start. I think most people have listed that they can provide information on the area that they live around. I might be finding myself in a similar boat soon where the group I play in might disintegrate. If anyone knows of any RPG clubs around East London/Essex in the UK I would appreciate them passing it on. For the record I've played a variety of RPGs in groups of 12 down to 2. As both a player and a GM I find a group of 3 to 4 players works nicely. It keeps everyone involved and they will face reasonable number of NPCs when it comes to trying to make the opposition think and act fairly intelligently. Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:24:24 -0000 From: "Mark OIiver" Subject: Re: Tigers - -----Original Message----- From: Scott David Orr To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 06 January 2000 23:27 Subject: Re: Tigers >Oh, and I think the ones used at Kursk were "Ferdinands"--"Elefant" was a >later name. I always thought they were called Elefants. Either way I've read that it was the complete lack of any MG defence, pretty much what you said in your last mail. The crew had no way of providing all round defence against Soviet tank killer squads. That said doesn't it raise some operational issues that they weren't being protected by either German infantry or some other vehicles? Regards, Mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:31:52 -0500 From: "Fugitivus" Subject: heral tea and other things that stink one of my players has said that as normal medicine [not the doctors] would not be produced in as much quanities as it is now, that people would go back to all the herbal stuff and naturalpaths or whatever they are called. the different roots and things that are meant to have healing qualities etc. has anyone used those sort of things in games before and how did you work it? obviously it can't be used to cover everything that goes wrong with people etc. he really took me off guard with this one. aaron *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:19:59 -0600 From: smoore@digcom.com Subject: re herbal tea and other things that stin one of my players has said that as normal medicine [not the doctors] would not be produced in as much quantities as it is now, that people would go back to all the herbal stuff and naturalpaths or whatever they are called. the different roots and things that are meant to have healing qualities etc. has anyone used those sort of things in games before and how did you work it? obviously it can't be used to cover everything that goes wrong with people etc. he really took me off guard with this one. aaron I used this in a different gaming system. It depends a lot on having someone who knows local plants and such. Knowing natural medicines in north America doesn't help much in Europe or elsewhere. My players found an old man living alone in the wilderness who taught them some basics. Also remember that not all natural cures work and some of the old wives tales can actually hurt. There are several survivalist sites that give some good info. Sam. (hoping the first post works) 1_ Voice Mail Guru Digital Communications 217-442-3800, Ext. 305 Fax 217-442-0974 D- _- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 23:43:52 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Tigers and The Way We Play Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: > >They added MG's to them. I'm not sure the problem was the lack of a _hull_ > >MG but rather the lack of any MG at all. For preventing close assault by > >infantry (which was the problem as "Kursk"--Prokhorovka, actually), for > >something that big and unmaneuverable, that I expect a pintel-mounted > >commander or loader MG would be more useful. > >Scott Orr > > This relates back to the T2K setting, don't expect armour to just turn > up by itself. At least a squad of infantry is a good accompaniment for an > MBT (IMO). Try and have armour, in fact all the enemy, operate > intelligently. A squad of infantry front up, walk in front of the PCs and > get hosed. This is silly! > > When you think about it, how many times have the enemy acted if their > lives don't matter in a scenario? > > A scout group or two approach in leaps so they can overwatch each other. > If one group gets whacked the other suppresses the enemy and *Immediately* > contacts the main group! Thats what they are there for! Scouting! > The main group deploy with any support moving into position where it can > do some good, not hanging back and fumbling around. Armour won't lead an > assault until the enemy is sure its required, if armour does attack the > infantry lay down suppressive fire on known enemy points. If they aren't > sure, they won't commit! No matter how good your scouts are they just > physically can't see an entire enemy position so they are always cautious. > (This goes for PC scouts too! How many time have you played in a game where > the ranger has come back and told you the colour of the OPFOR COs > underwear?) > Unless there is an amazingly good reason, the enemy never charges a > position. They flank you > > Rant, rant, rant! > Jim > A very good point. I usually don't make the enemy too intelligent, because, unfortunately the PCs aren't very intelligent either. That is, while their characters may be officers in the military, the actual PCs don't know too much about warfare. This is a limitation of role playing games in general. For example, my character in an AD&D campaign had an ancient history skill for the Waterdeep area. All I know about the forgotten realms is what I've picked up as I've played-- some of the other players know a lot more. If in Undermountain say a red painted door has some significance-- well there is no way I can know unless the GM tells me. Anyway, getting back to T2k, I have to dumb the enemy down so that the PCs can survive. I myself don't even know too much about strategies the enemy might use but I'm sure I could kill the PCs off real quick. I could put two tanks behind a hill and have the pcs chase some bait vehicle over the hill and get slaughtered since they wouldn't suspect anything like this. Does anyone know of a site with any information like this I could give them? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:36:30 -0600 From: "ddolllaw" Subject: Re: Need tw2000 web sites addresses - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pietu" To: Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 4:46 PM Subject: Need tw2000 web sites addresses > Hi pals. > > I have been last half year in army and i dont have glue what has been > happened in this list meentime. > > So, > if you had a homepage relative to TW2000 can you please sent URLs to me? > I am really interested about them. > > With thanks > > Pietu, > Helsinki > Finland > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > Loonz site which he already gave you is probably the best, I unfortuneatly don't have the time to create a page (probably lack tech no how as well). How are things in Finland?, being 1/4 Finnish extraction I would love to learn more about the country that almost kicked ruskie but in the winter war. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:41:46 -0600 From: "ddolllaw" Subject: Re: Tigers and The Way We Play - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Vieth" To: Sent: Friday, January 07, 2000 1:43 AM Subject: Re: Tigers and The Way We Play > > A very good point. I usually don't make the enemy too intelligent, because, > unfortunately the PCs aren't very intelligent either. That is, while their > characters may be officers in the military, the actual PCs don't know too much > about warfare. This is a limitation of role playing games in general. For > example, my character in an AD&D campaign had an ancient history skill for the > Waterdeep area. All I know about the forgotten realms is what I've picked up as > I've played-- some of the other players know a lot more. If in Undermountain say > a red painted door has some significance-- well there is no way I can know > unless the GM tells me. Anyway, getting back to T2k, I have to dumb the enemy > down so that the PCs can survive. I myself don't even know too much about > strategies the enemy might use but I'm sure I could kill the PCs off real quick. > I could put two tanks behind a hill and have the pcs chase some bait vehicle > over the hill and get slaughtered since they wouldn't suspect anything like > this. Does anyone know of a site with any information like this I could give > them? > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > You can try one of the militaries web pages, or have the players go to a local library and check out some books on military strategy that may give them some basic ideas, heck go to a local military surplus store and buy some basic Field Manuals or book store and buy one of the versions of CSM James J. Gallagher's, USA (Ret.) Combat Leader's Field Guide. It will at least give them some basic knowledge. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:12:46 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Tigers and The Way We Play > A very good point. I usually don't make the enemy too > intelligent, because, > unfortunately the PCs aren't very intelligent either. That is, while their > characters may be officers in the military, the actual PCs don't > know too much > about warfare. This is a limitation of role playing games in general. For > example, my character in an AD&D campaign had an ancient history > skill for the > Waterdeep area. All I know about the forgotten realms is what > I've picked up as > I've played-- some of the other players know a lot more. If in > Undermountain say > a red painted door has some significance-- well there is no way I can know > unless the GM tells me. Anyway, getting back to T2k, I have to > dumb the enemy > down so that the PCs can survive. I myself don't even know too much about > strategies the enemy might use but I'm sure I could kill the PCs > off real quick. > I could put two tanks behind a hill and have the pcs chase some > bait vehicle > over the hill and get slaughtered since they wouldn't suspect > anything like > this. Does anyone know of a site with any information like this I > could give > them? Simple solution: Roll a bunch of characters. Use 1 (or a couple) at a time each, until they die. Either they will learn, or they will keep on dying. If they are never required to learn anything because you baby them, then they will remain forever 'tactically challenged'. Experience makes a decent teacher since you can always start again. If you really hate rolling characters, then just resurrect them and start over at the beginning of the campain. Just make a photocopy of the character and his equipment before you use them, so you know what to go back to. If you bait them over a hill into an ambush once, do you really think they will fall for the same thing again? After getting obliterated a few (or a few dozen if they are really dense) times, maybe they will start to actually think before they act? Well, ok ... maybe they will think a little before they act. Then, as they get more cautious and careful, slowly start enforcing some real world like constraints on their communications (ie. stop letting them plan over an exact map on the terrain for 20 minutes before each 5 second combat round). But you will probably have to let them do something like that for a little while, until they get used to the idea of actually turning on their brains. The hardest thing is making sure you (the game referee) don't have the NPCs act with knowledge they don't have. Since you know exactly where the PC's are, it biases your action on what the NPC does, even if you try to prevent it. You can even overhear the PC's plans! It's really tough to honestly have them act intelligently AND act without your special knowledge of the situation! If you have trouble with deciding a particular action, what I would try to do is assign a percentage to each 'reasonable' action the NPC's could do based on the personality of the NPC. Then roll it. Sometimes they won't choose the best action, sometimes they will. It seems almost invariable that when you read about historical battles and events, you are mostly only privy to the final action they took. Not the process they used and information they had to come to that action. Historians try to rationalize what they did with the personality of the leaders, so when you are reading military history you end up with a completely passive process of reading about other peoples decisions. It doesn't actually train you to make decisions yourself. Only practice can do that. So make them practice some. Keep re-using the characters until they get a feel for what they can and can't do. They just have to learn for themselves about the relative dangers of both actions and inactions. One thing you can do to accelerate the process is something we did in the Army. Have an after action review. After the PC's win or loose (it doesn't matter), stop. Then everybody sit back and talk about what they did and why. Go over the whole battle from start to finish. You can explain what the enemy actually did and why. They will explain what they did and why. The 'why' part is extremely important. It is what actually teaches them something. When you have to actually explain to the PC's why you had the NPC's do something, you'll probably realize that some of the things they did where really with special knowledge they couldn't have had. But thats OK. You are in the learning process too. Next time you'll both be better. My 3 cents worth... Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:58:47 -0600 From: smoore@digcom.com Subject: Re: Tigers and the way we play you can find several military field manuals at this address. But be warned it is slow downloading http://www.artrans.com/rmsg/mfm.htm 1_ Voice Mail Guru Digital Communications 217-442-3800, Ext. 305 Fax 217-442-0974 D- _- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:33:54 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Tigers At 07:24 PM 1/7/00 -0000, Mark OIiver wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Scott David Orr >To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com > >Date: 06 January 2000 23:27 >Subject: Re: Tigers > > >>Oh, and I think the ones used at Kursk were "Ferdinands"--"Elefant" was a >>later name. > > >I always thought they were called Elefants. > Hm...that's not what the references I have say, but it could be that some writers have projected the later name onto earlier battles. >Either way I've read that it was the complete lack of any MG defence, pretty >much what you said in your last mail. > >The crew had no way of providing all round defence against Soviet tank >killer squads. > >That said doesn't it raise some operational issues that they weren't being >protected by either German infantry or some other vehicles? > Yes, that's certainly true. I'm not familiar with the details of the battle, but I suspect that the Germans didn't want to send their infantry out into the open terrain where the battle took place. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:37:52 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: re herbal tea and other things that stin At 02:19 PM 1/7/00 -0600, smoore@digcom.com wrote: > >I used this in a different gaming system. It depends a lot on having >someone who knows local plants and such. Knowing natural medicines in north >America doesn't help much in Europe or elsewhere. My players found an old >man living alone in the wilderness who taught them some basics. > Also remember that not all natural cures work and some of the old wives >tales can actually hurt. There are several survivalist sites that give some >good info. The info is certainly out there--there are always a few people out in rural areas who know such things, and as you say, there are modern survivalists, natural healing enthusiasts, and even medical doctors who have gathered the information. Remember though that the information is very geographically specific (especially in areas like rain forests, where the ecosystem is different very time you walk a few miles): places that are less industrially advanced and where there's a large rural population (which is a lot of Eastern Europe, and as far as rural population, especially Poland) will have a lot of people who still know things, but OTOH, places like the U.S. will have a lot more published info from people who've revived these practices. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:52:43 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Tigers and The Way We Play At 11:43 PM 1/6/00 -0800, Peter Vieth wrote: >A very good point. I usually don't make the enemy too intelligent, because, >unfortunately the PCs aren't very intelligent either. That is, while their >characters may be officers in the military, the actual PCs don't know too much >about warfare. This is a limitation of role playing games in general. I think you're confusing the PC's with the players: the _PC's_ are in fact very knowledgeable, even thoug the players aren't. The trick is to represent this knowledge in the game. I think that, rather than letting the PC's act stupidly, it's better either to prompt them using your own knowledge (or that of a player who does know something, even if his own character is as knowledgeable as some of the other characters), perhaps adding some ability rolls to extract this information (as you note below), or to gloss over the spots where no one knows how it would really be done (though you really hate to do this with the dramatic parts). >For example, my character in an AD&D campaign had an ancient history skill >for the Waterdeep area. All I know about the forgotten realms is what I've >picked up as I've played-- some of the other players know a lot more. If >in Undermountain say a red painted door has some significance-- well there >is no way I can know unless the GM tells me. Right. >Anyway, getting back to T2k, I have to dumb the enemy >down so that the PCs can survive. I myself don't even know too much about >strategies the enemy might use but I'm sure I could kill the PCs off real quick. >I could put two tanks behind a hill and have the pcs chase some bait vehicle >over the hill and get slaughtered since they wouldn't suspect anything like >this. Does anyone know of a site with any information like this I could give >them? > I don't have a site to give you, but I think this is exactly the right approach to this problem--if the GM goes out and does some research, then at least one person in the play group will know how it's supposed to work. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 14:55:28 -0800 (PST) From: ignatius Subject: Snipers in other armies Shouldn't the sniper career be available to others beside the USMC? I am sure the US Marines do not have a monopoly on snipers. In fact the tables of organization in Merc:2000 show that both the Russians and the French have snipers. The Russians have a sniper at the platoon level and the French have a "sharpshooter" attached to the squad. I have also seen pictures of US Army snipers. Anybody have any ideas or info about other armies? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:29:28 -0600 From: "Walter Rebsch" Subject: RE: Snipers in other armies > Shouldn't the sniper career be available to others > beside the USMC? I am sure the US Marines do not have > a monopoly on snipers. In fact the tables of > organization in Merc:2000 show that both the Russians > and the French have snipers. The Russians have a > sniper at the platoon level and the French have a > "sharpshooter" attached to the squad. I have also > seen pictures of US Army snipers. Any army that issues a sniper rifle, or allows soldiers to use them, has snipers. Whether or not they have a dedicated sniper school is another question. And whether or not that military uses them like the US does (ie. 2 man independant teams) is still another question. Yes, the US Army definately does have a sniper school. It's in Ft. Benning, Georgia just down the street from where I went to Airborne School. You gotta have an Infantry MOS (11 Series) to go there and I think you gotta be a Specialist minimum also (rank E4). It's only a short school, like a month or so. Apparently the school was relatively easy compared to the in-unit training in the 82nd Airborne. Some guys I talked to from the 504 said school was a cake walk compared to all the crap they dealt with in division. But then the whole 82nd constantly suffered from the inferiority complex of being just down the street from the 3rd and 7th SF Groups. Russia also has a sniper school, or did before the collapse anyway. They were quite good from the stories I heard, but that was all 5th hand info, so take it with a grain of salt. I don't know about other armies. (FYI: TLC just had a show called 'Suicide Missions' about snipers a couple days ago with some interesting historical info about German, Russian, US and Vietnamese snipers. Maybe you could catch a re-run?) Walter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:35:02 EST From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Tigers and The Way We Play Well I'm luckly because I have ex airborn in my group of players.Also the players are WWII buffs and love an good war movie or history show.It also helps if you can come up with idears and have your NPC's interact with the PC's so with all that they can make good plans.Also the enemy isn't all Vet's or higher exp's so you can have your characters learn from green or regluar NPC's.We have a group that plays four diffent RPG's Two AD&D,Ars Magica,T2K,and moden combat game.So we have a group with experince under thier belt.But I would now and then help out the players through the NPC's.If the players don't like what the NPC says they go on their way and get killed so be it.You tried. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:43:18 EST From: MOrab46019@aol.com Subject: Re: Snipers in other armies There's an book out there called"An illustrated guide to Modern Elite Forces"Prentice Hall Press makes it Arco Millitary Book If you want more info I can try to see what else there it on it so you can try to get yourself a copy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 18:58:48 -0500 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Tigers Ferdinands. > >>Oh, and I think the ones used at Kursk were "Ferdinands"--"Elefant" was a > >>later name. > > > > > >I always thought they were called Elefants. > > > Hm...that's not what the references I have say, but it could be that some > writers have projected the later name onto earlier battles. Scott is correct, they were Ferdinands. Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 19:04:40 -0500 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Way We Play Subject: Re: Tigers and The Way We Play > >Anyway, getting back to T2k, I have to dumb the enemy > >down so that the PCs can survive. I myself don't even know too much about > >strategies the enemy might use but I'm sure I could kill the PCs off real > quick. > >I could put two tanks behind a hill and have the pcs chase some bait vehicle > >over the hill and get slaughtered since they wouldn't suspect anything like > >this. Does anyone know of a site with any information like this I could give > >them? > > > I don't have a site to give you, but I think this is exactly the right > approach to this problem--if the GM goes out and does some research, then > at least one person in the play group will know how it's supposed to work. On my sight I have excerpts from a Ranger and Marine handbook, I found somewhere. Also Slade the sniper has an excellent sight with essays and comment on the craft of Infantry men. http://loonz.freeservers.com/t2k/index.htm The handbooks are in Mystuff and Slades URL is in the Sources. Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:46:48 -0700 From: rogue09@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Need tw2000 web sites addresses ddolllaw wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pietu" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 4:46 PM > Subject: Need tw2000 web sites addresses > > > Hi pals. > > > > I have been last half year in army and i dont have glue what has been > > happened in this list meentime. > > > > So, > > if you had a homepage relative to TW2000 can you please sent URLs to me? > > I am really interested about them. > > > > With thanks > > > > Pietu, > > Helsinki > > Finland > > > > I'll throw my site in the ring (proverbially speaking of course) http://members.xoom.com/wapahani/thekeep.html T.R. - -- *************************************************************** "What about the truth? What about the public's right to know?!" "Oh, come on don't give me that... The public traded the right to know for the chance to watch a long time ago..." - --Len Kaminski (Writer) Ghost Rider: 2099 #6 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:49:55 -0700 From: rogue09@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Snipers in other armies ignatius wrote: > Shouldn't the sniper career be available to others > beside the USMC? I am sure the US Marines do not have > a monopoly on snipers. In fact the tables of > organization in Merc:2000 show that both the Russians > and the French have snipers. The Russians have a > sniper at the platoon level and the French have a > "sharpshooter" attached to the squad. I have also > seen pictures of US Army snipers. The US Army maintains a sniper school at Ft. Benning, Georiga... Currently the program lasts 3-4 weeks (if I recall right). It is important to note that currently the US Army has adopted the Knight SR-25 Match for use by Spotters in the Army... so now both Spotter and Sniper use the 308 Winchester. > > > Anybody have any ideas or info about other armies? Try the Special Operations.com Forum sites... they have a Sniper Forum section which should give you a wealth of info from current or former operators... T.R. - -- *************************************************************** "What about the truth? What about the public's right to know?!" "Oh, come on don't give me that... The public traded the right to know for the chance to watch a long time ago..." - --Len Kaminski (Writer) Ghost Rider: 2099 #6 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 17:52:20 -0700 From: rogue09@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Pilots Vest Mark OIiver wrote: > It's an old mail but I've got a bit of catching up to do..... > > -----Original Message----- > From: rogue09@sprynet.com > To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com > > Date: 28 December 1999 04:34 > Subject: Re: Pilots Vest > > >They also used to call em the "May West Vest" back in the 60's... > > It would have been the Mae West vest, named after the actress. Apparently > when wearing the life jacket you possessed a, shall we say, somewhat similar > profile..... Yep-those guys had a sense of humor didn't they! :-) > > > The name definately dates back as far as the RAF in the 1940s. It's been around a long time... > > > Regards, > > Mark > T.R. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. - -- *************************************************************** "What about the truth? What about the public's right to know?!" "Oh, come on don't give me that... The public traded the right to know for the chance to watch a long time ago..." - --Len Kaminski (Writer) Ghost Rider: 2099 #6 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #80 ************************************