twilight2000-digest Friday, August 27 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 065 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: caseless ammo Re: caseless ammo tester 2nd Tester Re: caseless ammo winrpa Re: winrpa Re: caseless ammo Re: caseless ammo Conversion legality Re: Conversion legality Re: Conversion legality Re: Conversion legality EMP & New Era source books Re: EMP & New Era source books Re: Conversion legality Re: Conversion legality what happened to Mitch Berg's site? Re: what happened to Mitch Berg's site? Re: Conversion legality Norway Re: Norway Re: Norway Depleted Uranium Re: Depleted Uranium Necessary books... Re: Necessary books... Re: Necessary books... Re: Depleted Uranium ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:29:07 +1000 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: caseless ammo >>At 03:20 AM 8/8/99 -0400, Cell-66 wrote: >> >>> i have heard of caseless ammo before. like in aliens the movie >>>though you can see caseings. but how is caseless meant to work? >(2) No ejection port: Spent casings do not need to be ejected, so no >ejection port is required. One less place for dirt to enter the gun. The German G11 had an ejection port, to be used for clearing stoppages. However as you say, it doesn't operate 'normally' and is not a point of entry for dirt. Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:58:24 +0100 From: "Roger Stenning" Subject: Re: caseless ammo Hi... >>At 03:20 AM 8/8/99 -0400, Cell-66 wrote: >> >>> i have heard of caseless ammo before. like in aliens the movie >>>though you can see caseings. but how is caseless meant to work? >> > >In general, rather than placing the bullet, propellant and primer in a >(brass) casing, the propellant and primer are formed into a cake around the >bullet. [snip] >(2) No ejection port: Spent casings do not need to be ejected, so no >ejection port is required. One less place for dirt to enter the gun. Not strictly accurate, I'm sorry to say. While it's true that, in an ideal world, no ejection port is required, you will still (just like conventional brass rounds), require the facility to get rid of misfires, requiring an ejection port of kinds. The G-11, sadly discontinued in favour of the G-36 (a conventional gas-operated assault rifle system), *did* have an ejection port, which was cleverly hidden in the pistol grip of the rifle. If a misfire occurred, the shooter rotated the breech manually (the charging action), and ejected the misfire that way, the misfire dropping to the ground through gravity. There is no way to extract a misfired round, however, if it's stuck in the chamber; the G-11, AFAIK, uses a three or four chamber rotating chamber-cum-breech, which locks into place to allow firing. You get a misfire stuck in the breech/chamber, it's back to your local certified H&K armourer you toddle... ducking the incoming rounds on the way... Since the actual workings of the rifle are still (last I heard) a German state secret, that's about all I know, which has been gleaned from open-source publications, mainly military and gun hobby magazines, plus the odd clip on the TV. Hope this helps! Best regards, Roger Stenning Intelligent Web Design Services http://homepages.enterprise.net/isgwds00000/index.html (Contact me for my PGP Public Key). - ---------------------------------------------------- Member of the HTML Writers Guild http://www.hwg.org/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:46:12 +1200 From: "Gray, Raymond" Subject: tester *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:51:36 +1200 From: "Gray, Raymond" Subject: 2nd Tester Sorry people, please bear with me as I try to get up and running on the list. Raygun Hauraki Mounted Rifles NZ Army *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:15:53 +0800 From: "Ballistix" Subject: Re: caseless ammo I recently read an article on just this topic if only I could find the address. > >The advantages are: > > > >(1) Much lower buller weight: the casing accounts for 1/2 to 1/3 the weight > >of a full round. > > > Isn't the compactness of the round also a factor? That is, not only does > it weigh less, but without the casing (and especially without the flange > around the base of an ordinary round) it doesn't take up as much space. This is true it is a very compact round. The G11 round was basically an elongated rectangular shape back from the actual bullet. The shape then allows more rounds to be loaded into a magazine or a more compact magazine (due to no space wasted like a tube shaped round). > >(2) There are no empty casing to be reloaded (only important in certain > >settings, like T3K ...). For T2K its very important, the other problem is it's availability. This item could almost be a very very rare item in T2K. > The real problem here, I guess, would be that the techniques for creating a > caseless round (and holding all that powder together) are much more > demanding than the comparatively simpler process of packing powder into a > brass casing? Very much so, at the moment it's still a closely guarded secret what fixing agents are combined with the propellant to fuse it together to make the round. Ballistix I'll try to locate the web page address for you all, it was an interesting read. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:16:26 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: winrpa heh well I've got a basic generic character generator going! basically i thought about what the systems have in general and came up with groupings for these attributes... so basically you make a file for the game system and you generate characters from it. its finally getting along. - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:47:59 -0700 From: Dave Subject: Re: winrpa Good to hear Peter. I am still working on mine also, although it is T2K specific. I have the basic generator done, working on the ability to pick and equip character with skills and equipment. Coming along fairly well. At 06:16 PM 8/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >heh well I've got a basic generic character generator going! basically i >thought about what the systems have in general and came up with >groupings for these attributes... so basically you make a file for the >game system and you generate characters from it. its finally getting >along. > >-- >([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) >(-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:55:53 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: caseless ammo - -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Cope To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Wednesday, 11 August 1999 3:26 Subject: Re: caseless ammo >>At 03:20 AM 8/8/99 -0400, Cell-66 wrote: >> >>> i have heard of caseless ammo before. like in aliens the movie >>>though you can see caseings. but how is caseless meant to work? >The advantages are: >(2) No ejection port: Spent casings do not need to be ejected, so no >ejection port is required. One less place for dirt to enter the gun. Actually, you still need an ejection port to remove dud's. Jim. >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:09:22 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: caseless ammo >From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" > > >>At 03:20 AM 8/8/99 -0400, Cell-66 wrote: > >> > >>> i have heard of caseless ammo before. like in aliens the movie > >>>though you can see caseings. but how is caseless meant to work? > > >The advantages are: > > >(2) No ejection port: Spent casings do not need to be ejected, so no > >ejection port is required. One less place for dirt to enter the gun. > > > Actually, you still need an ejection port to remove dud's. Well, that was what I heard anyway (though I wondered how you got duds out of the weapon). It might be better (and more accurate) to say that the ejection port is open (thus letting in dust, sand, etc) _only_ when you have to eject a round that has failed to fire. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:13:03 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Conversion legality This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BEEB37.A4E43360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been working on a conversion of Twilight 2000 using R. = Talsorian's Cyberpunk 2020 rules and a few people have shown some = interest in seeing them but I'm wondering how legal disseminating that = sort of thing over the internet is, I especially don't want to get GDW = or Tantalus upset as they are so kind to allow this sort of forum about = the game to exist. Can anyone comment on the legality and ethics of = disseminating conversions on the net? Jim. - ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BEEB37.A4E43360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've been=20 working on a conversion of Twilight 2000 using R. Talsorian's = Cyberpunk=20 2020 rules and a few people have shown some interest in seeing them but = I'm=20 wondering how legal disseminating that sort of thing over the internet = is, I=20 especially don't want to get GDW or Tantalus upset as they are so kind = to allow=20 this sort of forum about the game to exist. Can anyone comment on the = legality=20 and ethics of disseminating conversions on the net? =20 Jim. - ------=_NextPart_000_00BD_01BEEB37.A4E43360-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:54:19 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Conversion legality >From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" > > I've been working on a conversion of Twilight 2000 using R. >Talsorian's Cyberpunk 2020 rules and a few people have shown some interest >in seeing them but I'm wondering how legal disseminating that sort of thing >over the internet is, I especially don't want to get GDW or Tantalus upset >as they are so kind to allow this sort of forum about the game to exist. >Can anyone comment on the legality and ethics of disseminating conversions >on the net? Provided that it is strictly a _conversion_ article, you _probably_ would be okay. The key here is that conversions should assume players using it have both sets of rules -- DO NOT DUPLICATE TEXT FROM THE GAMES! Note that some companies are extremely uptight about this sort of thing, while others are pretty relaxed. Can't tell you where the two above (R. Talsorian and Tantalus) fit in. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:02:18 -0600 From: rogue09@sprynet.com Subject: Re: Conversion legality > > Provided that it is strictly a _conversion_ article, you _probably_ would be > okay. The key here is that conversions should assume players using it have > both sets of rules -- DO NOT DUPLICATE TEXT FROM THE GAMES! Yep-sounds like the way to go to avoid trouble. Anyone that has the "Edge of The Sword" book knows there is a large number of conversion charts in the back. But dockery (the author) chose just to provide forumla and the game name and no duplicated rules or text frm the games. Though I think you would be able to provide a summary of the differences between the two systems, etc without trouble-just as long as it's in your own words. Until Later T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:49:16 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Conversion legality >From: rogue09@sprynet.com >Yep-sounds like the way to go to avoid trouble. Anyone that has the "Edge >of The Sword" book knows there is a large number of conversion charts in >the back. But dockery (the author) chose just to provide >forumla and the game name and no duplicated rules or text frm the games. >Though I think you would be able to provide a summary of the differences >between the two systems, etc without trouble-just as long as it's in your >own words. In this case, the author (or company) likely specifically asked for and recieved permission to include the conversions. A few years ago, WoTC put out a book called Primal Orders (?) and Palladium Books sued them for putting in a conversion to their system without permission (T$R told WoTC not to do it again [I guess WoTC got the last laugh here ...], and I don't think any of the other game companies grumbled publically). Technically, of course, whether you charge money for the conversion or it's free has nothing to do with whether or not it's a copyright violation -- it only makes a difference once you've been judged guilty and it's time to decide on the damages. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:13:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: EMP & New Era source books Greetings, A quick hello as I am new to the list. Does anybody know where there might be some rules online for Electro Magnetic Pulse effects and sheilding? I'm pretty familiar with the actual effects but I wonder if there are any military sites or better yet a TW2k resource :) Also, for settlements with varying Tech Levels and political growth I've been using the Traveller New Era system and some of it's source books, in particular the World Tamer's Handbook. TtNE is totally compatible with TW2k v2.2. It has great rules for aircraft and boats (including ocean), plus it's Fire, Fusion, and Steel handbook, allow you to build whatever item or vehicle you like :) Just thought I'd mention that in case you didn't know. Good to be on the list, Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:29:06 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: EMP & New Era source books >From: Ray Wiberg > Also, for settlements with varying Tech Levels and political >growth I've been using the Traveller New Era system and some of it's >source books, in particular the World Tamer's Handbook. TtNE is totally >compatible with TW2k v2.2. It has great rules for aircraft and >boats(including ocean), plus it's Fire, Fusion, and Steel handbook, allow >you to build whatever item or vehicle you like :) Just thought I'd mention >that in case you didn't know. The Colonies, Black Powder Weapon Design and Bow Weapon Design chapters are all generally useful in a T2K campaign (especially if you set the campaign a few years past 2000). FF&S is somewhat less useful, except as a way of converting real-world weapons and vehicles not covered by T2K into a T2K campaign. Note that FF&S does NOT have rules for the construction of watercraft. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:17:31 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Conversion legality At 12:49 PM 8/20/99 PDT, Brandon Cope wrote: >>From: rogue09@sprynet.com >>Yep-sounds like the way to go to avoid trouble. Anyone that has the "Edge >>of The Sword" book knows there is a large number of conversion charts in >>the back. But dockery (the author) chose just to provide >>forumla and the game name and no duplicated rules or text frm the games. >>Though I think you would be able to provide a summary of the differences >>between the two systems, etc without trouble-just as long as it's in your >>own words. > > >In this case, the author (or company) likely specifically asked for and >recieved permission to include the conversions. > >A few years ago, WoTC put out a book called Primal Orders (?) and Palladium >Books sued them for putting in a conversion to their system without >permission (T$R told WoTC not to do it again [I guess WoTC got the last >laugh here ...], and I don't think any of the other game companies grumbled >publically). The suit in question was settled, which was not surprising as TSR essentially had no legal leg to stand on. TSR's strategy consisted largely of dragging the case on long enough to bankrupt WotC with legal fees (and this wasn't the first time they'd done it, only the most dramatic instance--in turn, much earlier, they were the victim of the same shenanigans on the part of the J.R.R. Tolkien estate). >Technically, of course, whether you charge money for the conversion or it's >free has nothing to do with whether or not it's a copyright violation -- it >only makes a difference once you've been judged guilty and it's time to >decide on the damages. That's true--but a company can still prove damages even if you didn't charge money, since the standard is how much money they lost, not how much you made. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:19:05 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Conversion legality Oopsie. I wrote: >The suit in question was settled, which was not surprising as TSR essentially >had no legal leg to stand on. TSR's strategy consisted largely of dragging the >case on long enough to bankrupt WotC with legal fees (and this wasn't the first >time they'd done it, only the most dramatic instance--in turn, much earlier, >they were the victim of the same shenanigans on the part of the J.R.R. Tolkien >estate). As Brandon Cope pointed out, the other party to the suit was Palladium, not TSR; TSR was known for doing this sort of thing, however. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:42:58 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: what happened to Mitch Berg's site? I'm having difficulty getting onto Mitch Berg's site at http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/ Does anyone know if it's still up or did it go to the big mushroom cloud in the sky? orrin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 02:59:37 GMT From: "Blayne '" Subject: Re: what happened to Mitch Berg's site? I got to it no problem. >From: OrrinLadd@aol.com >Reply-To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com >Subject: what happened to Mitch Berg's site? >Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:42:58 EDT > >I'm having difficulty getting onto Mitch Berg's site at >http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/ > >Does anyone know if it's still up or did it go to the big mushroom cloud in >the sky? > >orrin >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:30:42 PDT From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Conversion legality >From: Scott David Orr > >That's true--but a company can still prove damages even if you didn't >charge money, since the standard is how much money they lost, not how much >you made. What I meant was that if you charge money for you 'copyright violation,' there are _additonal_ damages that you become liable for (I think it's up to 3x the total amount of money you revieved, but I'm not sure). A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:34:59 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Norway Anybody from Norway on this list? How does the Norweigan Army rank structure work? and what is the Norweigan Army called? thanks, orrin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:58:52 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Norway Subject: Norway > Anybody from Norway on this list? > > How does the Norweigan Army rank structure work? and what is the Norweigan > Army called? Check out the Global Resource List? http://homepages.tesco.net/~mark_om/rpg/t2k/global_resources.html#NORWAY Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:10:36 EDT From: Zek101@aol.com Subject: Re: Norway hey guys check these us army sites out and use them in your t2k game. News From the Front! May-Jun 99; It's a dirty business, but somebody has to do Handbook March 96 BCTP: WARFIGHTER News: News From The Front! (Dec 1993) SOMALIA UPDATE: MILITARY OPERATIONS ON URBANIZED TERRAIN (MOUT): News From The THE NEED FOR SNIPERS IN MOUT: News From The Front! (Dec 1993) Battle -Focused physical Training: News From The Front! (Jan -Feb 1997) SYNCHRONIZING THE RESPONSE TO CIVIL DISTURBANCES: News From The Front! (Nov - D C3I at the Advanced Warfighting Experiment (AWE): News From The Front! (May - J BATTLE DRILL - REACT TO ARMOR WHILE DISMOUNTED: News From The Front! (Mar - Apr Battles from Cortina: News From the Front (Mar-Apr 1998): Building a Useful Continuity Book Foreign Area Officers and Special Forces: Synergy in Combined Peacekeeping Oper The Army's 2nd Training Revolution: News From The Front! (Jan -Feb 1998) The Medical Threat of Cortina: News From The Front! (Jan -Feb 1998) Reconstitution Training: News From The Front! (Sep - Oct 1997) Maneuver: News From The Front! (Mar - Apr 1996) Ranger Company Night Live-Fire raid in the IR Spectrum: News From The Front! (J Battle -Focused physical Training: News From The Front! (Jan -Feb 1997) PROTECTING THE OBSTACLE: News From The Front! (Nov - Dec 1995) KOREAN WARFIGHTING LESSONS AND INFORMATION: News From The Front! (Nov - Dec 199 MOUT TARGETING: News From The Front! (Jan 1994) THE NEED FOR SNIPERS IN MOUT: News From The Front! (Dec 1993) TWILLIGHT 2000 Star Wars: Biker Scouts Millennium Mountain House - Freeze Dried Food for backpacking, hiking, outdoor recreation, Army Times Publishing Co. Welcome to the U.S. Army Homepage Orchestrating the Direct Fire Fight Fighting Deep with Joint Fires News From the Front!, May-June 98: Fighting with a Purpose News From the Front!, May-June 98: Preparing the Claymore Mine for Rapid Use in News From the Front!, May-June 98: Battles from Cortina *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:29:33 +0100 From: "Lee Williams" Subject: Depleted Uranium Hello all. Do not read this if you like an easy game or have a nervous disposition. Just thought some of you might be interested in a documentary that was shown on TV here in the UK this evening. Apparently, depleted uranium shells used in the 1991 Gulf War are causing illness and even death amongst servicemen of both sides, as well as illnesses in Iraqi civilians and children born since then to both ex-servicemen and civilians. Also, the last US equipment to be cleansed of DU dust has only just recently been serviced and returned to the depots. I am sorry if this is depressing to anyone, but as T2K has always been quite realistic in feel I think this should be addressed, or at least taken into account by the more 'realistic' GMs amongst us. Depleted uranium has a half life of 4.5 billion years. Once again I sincerely apologise for being depressing. Alpha Tango 32. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:49:05 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Depleted Uranium At 11:29 PM 8/26/99 +0100, Lee Williams wrote: >Hello all. >Do not read this if you like an easy game or have a nervous disposition. > >Just thought some of you might be interested in a documentary that was shown >on TV here in the UK this evening. Apparently, depleted uranium shells used >in the 1991 Gulf War are causing illness and even death amongst servicemen >of both sides, as well as illnesses in Iraqi civilians and children born >since then to both ex-servicemen and civilians. Also, the last US equipment >to be cleansed of DU dust has only just recently been serviced and returned >to the depots. >I am sorry if this is depressing to anyone, but as T2K has always been quite >realistic in feel I think this should be addressed, or at least taken into >account by the more 'realistic' GMs amongst us. Depleted uranium has a half >life of 4.5 billion years. > >Once again I sincerely apologise for being depressing. > I'd check into this in some detail before spreading it around. Uranium dust can hurt people, like the dust of any other heavy metal, but this has nothing to do with radiation (and DU really doesn't have much radiation--hence the "depleted"); the trick is getting uranium dust in the first place, which only happens when a DU shell hits something--and after it does, the dust, being _heavy_, settles quickly, so I'm not sure how allied soldiers would have ingested it. And I don't see how there would be any dust on allied equipment. I can't imagine how this would affect children--you'd need radiation to alter genes. It's possible that children could ingest some dust if they were around the wrecks, sort of like kids can ingest flakes from lead paint, but any remaining wrecks would be out in the middle of nowhere. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:17:29 EDT From: "Matthew Hobbs" Subject: Necessary books... Hi. I've been a lurker for some time on the list, and finally have a question worth asking. Preparing to report to OBC at Ft. Knox for Armor, I'm kicking around trying to start up a TW:2000 group once I get there. I have the 2nd edition boxed set, and have the chance to accquire some supplements. Specifically, I'm interested in Infantry Weapons of the World and the Eastern European Sourcebook. Can anyone recommend these? Any other game books that might prove useful? I'd appreciate any input from the old hands around here. - -Hobbs _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:48:35 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Necessary books... Subject: Necessary books... > Hi. I've been a lurker for some time on the list, and finally have a > question worth asking. Preparing to report to OBC at Ft. Knox for Armor, > I'm kicking around trying to start up a TW:2000 group once I get there. I > have the 2nd edition boxed set, and have the chance to accquire some > supplements. > > Specifically, I'm interested in Infantry Weapons of the World and the > Eastern European Sourcebook. Can anyone recommend these? Any other game > books that might prove useful? I'd appreciate any input from the old hands > around here. If you can trip over a 2.2 copy snag it. I like it better and the vehicles section dropped the scifi armor. InfWeps is a good one I keep around. The East is good to have but you won't notice it missing as much as the gun and vehicle books. The Nato handbook is good one to get so you can have the allied stuff. Heavy weapons handbook you van get by without also. InfWeps, Nato Veh Handbook are nice to have. Good Luck Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:39:27 -0700 From: Ron Hale Subject: Re: Necessary books... Matthew Hobbs wrote: Hi. I've been a lurker for some time on the list, and finally have a question worth asking. Preparing to report to OBC at Ft. Knox for Armor, I'm kicking around trying to start up a TW:2000 group once I get there. I have the 2nd edition boxed set, and have the chance to accquire some supplements. While there try not to forget the list. Specifically, I'm interested in Infantry Weapons of the World and the Eastern European Sourcebook. Can anyone recommend these? Any other game books that might prove useful? I'd appreciate any input from the old hands around here. Infantry Weapons of the World is definitely worth getting, as is the Eastern European Sourcebook if you are gaming in that area. As for the others I liked all of them some more than others. TTFN Ron Hale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:44:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Wiberg Subject: Re: Depleted Uranium Greetings all. Frankly, whether or not depleted uranium rounds contribute to the Gulf War Syndrome seems a petty point (in the game I mean). With heavy use of tactical nukes, and a limited Nuclear, Chemical, and possibly Bacterial exchange which spans most of the 1st World Nations, depleted uranium dust is the least of your worries. Ambient radiation will be much higher than it was before, causing more cancer, birth mutation (rare, and negative trait oriented), and sterility (women being born with their total allotment of eggs suffer high sterlity factors due to particles destroying their ova). Who knows what long term nervous and respitory damage chemical warfare could lead to. Whether or not you use Bacteriological warfare in your campaign matters little now that water supplies and sanitation are almost nil. Population die off due to illness reaches a much higher portion (like Turkey is about to face due to the earthquake and bad engineering). Primary kill (1st series of strikes) will only account for very limited numbers as far as casualties go. The secondary kill is a much nastier thing, and over the following 5-10 years following the collapse of medical, santiation, and electrical infrastructure (not to mention all the nasty environmental effects) people will die like flies and suffer all kinds of interesting side effects (don't forget that radiation condenses the higher up the food chain you are). I could go on but you get my point. My .02 Ray On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Scott David Orr wrote: > At 11:29 PM 8/26/99 +0100, Lee Williams wrote: > >Hello all. > >Do not read this if you like an easy game or have a nervous disposition. > > > >Just thought some of you might be interested in a documentary that was shown > >on TV here in the UK this evening. Apparently, depleted uranium shells used > >in the 1991 Gulf War are causing illness and even death amongst servicemen > >of both sides, as well as illnesses in Iraqi civilians and children born > >since then to both ex-servicemen and civilians. Also, the last US equipment > >to be cleansed of DU dust has only just recently been serviced and returned > >to the depots. > >I am sorry if this is depressing to anyone, but as T2K has always been quite > >realistic in feel I think this should be addressed, or at least taken into > >account by the more 'realistic' GMs amongst us. Depleted uranium has a half > >life of 4.5 billion years. > > > >Once again I sincerely apologise for being depressing. > > > I'd check into this in some detail before spreading it around. Uranium > dust can hurt people, like the dust of any other heavy metal, but this has > nothing to do with radiation (and DU really doesn't have much > radiation--hence the "depleted"); the trick is getting uranium dust in the > first place, which only happens when a DU shell hits something--and after > it does, the dust, being _heavy_, settles quickly, so I'm not sure how > allied soldiers would have ingested it. And I don't see how there would be > any dust on allied equipment. > > I can't imagine how this would affect children--you'd need radiation to > alter genes. It's possible that children could ingest some dust if they > were around the wrecks, sort of like kids can ingest flakes from lead > paint, but any remaining wrecks would be out in the middle of nowhere. > > Scott Orr > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #65 ************************************ To subscribe to Twilight2000-Digest, send the command: subscribe twilight2000-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com". 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