twilight2000-digest Friday, July 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 057 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] Re: On subject Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 Re: On subject Re: On subject Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 ROTC Re: On subject Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 electrical systems RE: China Anyone? [Longer] RE: Kitchen Tools (was: America Bashing) DIRTY TRICKS FOR TRICKY REFS (was On subject) Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 Re: On subject Re: America Bashing Re: ROTC RE: China Anyone? [Longer] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:42:47 -0700 From: Snake Eyes Subject: Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] At 10:44 AM 7/30/99 -0500, Steve wrote: >Snake Eyes, > Socialist nanny state?? -- This is news to me, however the government is >overbearing here and a tax revolt is a possible situation. > I would suggest you leave the Country bashing to the monkeys, it does not >become you. I was being facetious, eh?. Anyway, I was really only bashing one particular Canadian, not the whole country. Me? I've been to Canada; I love Canada. I can get Claritin over the counter in Canada. My favorite thing about Canada is Canadian bacon, although I must say Canadian Mist is a very close second. I also enjoy Canada Dry ginger ale. ~ Snake Eyes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:53:25 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: On subject Scott Kalkwarf wrote: > Hey have any of you in your games / campaingns ever had the caracters who > were running low on just about everything let the group find a bunch of > useless junk like say a museum and not too far away a battle sceen, and > maybe an aboandon repair yard? All thing in themselves not too useful but > with a little imagination they may be able to get some vehicals repaired. > > snip snip snip > You guys have any creative ideas or thoughts to this? Generally the pc's are too clever for their own good :) The last time the PCs found a battle field and a repair yard they came out with too many vehicles (luck of the dice for them I guess, not too much fun gming a convoy that destroys everything in its path). > > > Thanks guys and once agian sorry for the little altercation/ flame with the > socialists. Uhh ok - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:55:48 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 Chuck Mandus wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott David Orr > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:04 PM > Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 > > > Radio Shack atually sells a high-amperage DC to AC converter for cars > (it's > > very popular with truckers), or at least they did a few years ago, for > like > > $150. > > I plan to put some of those up soon as well. Inverters have been around for > a long time as well, I have some plans to build one which date from the > 1960's at least in one of my ham radio books. I think I've seen a few for > sale in my 1960 Spiegel Spring/Summer catalog. I like to collect old > catalogs, lot of neat stuff and ideas. Getting back to the inverters, I > think the one you can build yourself, I'm not sure if you can run things > like record players and other motorized equipment that uses the 60 cycles > (50 cycles for most non-North Americans) as a base to keep the motors at > the right speed unless there is a regulator to keep it at that standard. > > Chuck > > DE KA3WRW http://www.jarcom.com/inmotion/power.htm Plans for a dc to dc power supply for a computer - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:02:19 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] Snake Eyes wrote: > I was being facetious, eh?. I had a friend who made a similar remark in an economics class. His explanation was "I was being facetious." I swear the teacher and everyone else in that class had that glazed over, stupid stare on their eyes that is characteristic of giraffes. Go figure. > My favorite thing about Canada is Canadian bacon, me too, tho i like the red green show as well - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:02:56 PDT From: "C Jones" Subject: Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] > > > Why should I or any other American stick our necks > > out for anyone else? > >Just because the average American lives in a suburban home, has a >high-school or higher education, etc. doesn't mean that their life is >more valuable than that of a central african living in a thatch hut, >with little or no formal education. The fact that you are willing to >arrogantly assume that american lives are more important than anyone >else's disgusts me. > > > It isn't worth the death of 1 American. Of course not. Because Americans are just oh so special. Well then i guess ill see you at the army recruters tomorrow then right? cause after all you want to save thoughs poor africans, so i guess you are gonna volenteer to put your life on the line, to be wasted in a ineffective atempt to save lives right?? I think not C JONES _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:06:43 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 > > Radio Shack atually sells a high-amperage DC to AC converter for cars (it's > > very popular with truckers), or at least they did a few years ago, for like > > $150. > > I looked around, units with a peak of 400W, continuous 140W are about $40-$50, > 250W are like $80, they go upwards... WAY upwards from there (stopped looking > after the $500 units heh) How much load does that put on an engine, how much extra strain? Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:20:14 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: On subject Subject: On subject > Hey have any of you in your games / campaingns ever had the caracters who > were running low on just about everything let the group find a bunch of > useless junk like say a museum and not too far away a battle sceen, and > maybe an aboandon repair yard? All thing in themselves not too useful but > with a little imagination they may be able to get some vehicals repaired. If mine run out of gear I gauge their boredom before letting them find a few bodies in a basement or a vehicle in a garage or collapsed building. Once I had a deuce up to the top of the tarp in quicksand, they had to get MANY local draft animals to help remove it. Plus give a cut to the owners of the animals. Once I had a copilot NPC killed in the right seat of a HMMWV with a ballista bolt. Grape shot from a muzzle loading cannon is no joke as a street sweeper. Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:27:21 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: On subject Subject: Re: On subject > Generally the pc's are too clever for their own good :) The last time the PCs > found a battle field and a repair yard they came out with too many vehicles > (luck of the dice for them I guess, not too much fun gming a convoy that > destroys everything in its path). > Once I threw a rep yard out there to fix a couple of border line vehicles in their group. They went nuts begging for this and whining about that. So... Days later after repairs they came to an impact crater and use the gieger counter to check when they were clear. For some reason the counter wouldn't stop clicking even after I told them it wasn't broken and they fixed it anyways. :-) Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:41:20 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Cook?= Subject: Re: America Bashing was Re: China Anyone? [Long] - --- C Jones wrote: > > Well then i guess ill see you at the army recruters > tomorrow then right? > cause after all you want to save thoughs poor > africans, so i guess you are > gonna volenteer to put your life on the line, to be > wasted in a ineffective > atempt to save lives right?? > Actually I'm going into a career in medecine, to save lives in other ways. Michael Cook _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:26:28 -0400 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 From: Damian Robinson To: Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 3:46 AM Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 > Hmmmm... > power inverters are gods gift to sigs with a stereo to run! > And a mobile phone to charge, and a electric shaver, and... > > But seriously, when your vehicle already has a generator for 24v, why > not use all that power for good, instead of military purposes... I noticed most military vehicles run on a 24 volt system whereas most civilian vehicles use 12 volts. I know that prior to the mid-1950's, many vehicles ran off of 6 volts. I still see old trucks on the road today that were made in the 1940's that still have the 6 volt ignition systems. Do military vehicles have a huge 24 volt battery or do they run with two 12 volt batteries in series. I'm familiar enough with "civvy" vehicles and their 12 volt systems, but not as much with the 24 volt system of military vehicles. One question I like to know is all or most military vehicles have a 24 volt system, even vehicles like Humvees and trucks too? Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:32:40 -0400 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 From: Peter Vieth To: Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 > http://www.jarcom.com/inmotion/power.htm > Plans for a dc to dc power supply for a computer I know that back in the 1940's to the 1970's, many am radio operators used "dynamotors" which took in 6, 12, 24, 28, volts and bumped it up to the various voltages they needed to run their radio gear. A "dynamotor" is a motor/generator that used the vehicle's electrical supply on one set of poles on the armature while the other set generated the high amount of voltage. Back then, many radios required two or even three separate voltages to run, one for the tube filaments ("A battery" - typically 1 to 12 volts) and the other(s) ("B & C batteries") for the radio in the 90 - 400 volts area. I'm looking for info and pics on them as well albeit never saw one in my life. B-) When the military used them, they were usually stuck in the back of the jeep, truck, whatever, to power the radios and other things. Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:48:21 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: ROTC anyone have comments on ROTC? heh they keep sending me mail about college money, I just want to see what people besides their PR guys have to say heh - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:51:01 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: On subject Dwight Looney wrote: > Subject: On subject > > > Hey have any of you in your games / campaingns ever had the caracters who > > were running low on just about everything let the group find a bunch of > > useless junk like say a museum and not too far away a battle sceen, and > > maybe an aboandon repair yard? All thing in themselves not too useful but > > with a little imagination they may be able to get some vehicals repaired. > > If mine run out of gear I gauge their boredom before letting them find a > few bodies in a basement or a vehicle in a garage or collapsed building. Hmm thinking about it the times when they are low on ammo,etc are a lot more interesting. The PCs have to rely more on role playing and use their items carefully. - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:45:15 -0400 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwight Looney To: Sent: Friday, July 30, 1999 2:06 PM Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 > How much load does that put on an engine, how much extra strain? > > Loonz Well, if you are putting an inverter on your battery, if it puts out say 480 watts at 120 volts AC, then you divide the watts by the voltage and you get 4 amps at full load. That translates to 40 amps input at 12 volts DC, a heavy load if you use the full load. However, that's assuming the transformer in the inverter runs at 100% efficiency which is never the case. I think most transformers tun at 80% efficency, some more, others less. At 80%, you would need 50 amps of 12volts DC. The reason is that the current faces some friction in the copper windings of the transformer and other things which is dissipated as heat. Let's see how much power would an engine block inverter take from the engine. I'm not sure although I do have an article in a June 1959 "Science & Mechanics" on air-conditioning a small car with a kit where it takes about how much power the A/C compressor takes away for the engine. There were three brands tested in three cars (I liked the part on putting A/C into a 1953 Rambler - B-) ) and one brand's compressor took only 1.3 to 1.6 hp from the engine while the other two took about 7 hp. I figure you could be looking at the same range for an engine mounted alternator in my opinion. Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 00:50:00 +0100 From: "Lee Williams" Subject: electrical systems This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BEDAEE.9E2132C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I used to be a driver for the British Army in the mid-eighties, all = smaller vehicles used 24 volts with one BIG battery. At least that's how = I remember it... Alpha Tango 32 - ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BEDAEE.9E2132C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I used to be a driver for the = British Army=20 in the mid-eighties, all smaller vehicles used 24 volts with one = BIG=20 battery. At least that's how I remember it... Alpha Tango = 32 - ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BEDAEE.9E2132C0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:47:14 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: RE: China Anyone? [Longer] > ---------- > From: Scott Orr > Zek101@aol.com wrote: > >its to china's gain to renforce north korea > It's to China's gain to join a war it wasn't involved in already? I don't > think so. Scott, You do not understand what the People's Republic of China (PRC) thinks it loses when North Korea loses this reunification battle. The PRC is a paranoid state. How paranoid? It is so paranoid that it even controls the weather in Beijing; since the opening round of the Cold War in 1953, with the cease fire in Korea, Beijing has not allowed the temperature to rise above 98.6F! This summer for the first time during the Cold War -in the interest in a more "open" press- the temperature was "allowed" to rise to 104 in weather reports! This is a regime that thinks breathing exercises are a threat to national security. The PRC thinks that the USA has the same intentions, toward Asia, that it has - Domination. The PRC sees North Korea as a safety buffer FROM invasion. Not only does the PRC think we have McArther's brain in a Futurama jar -just waiting to once again cross the Yalu river north-, but it also does not trust those techno "pseudo-pacifists" the Japanese. (Heck they probably think that the Japanese are the ones who developed this brain jar technology -shoot McArther WAS Japan's shogun in a real post nuke warzone;) And all of Asia "knows" that Japan is just an American forward base to launch an invasion, first into North Korea (so thinks the PRC), then into the rest of Asia. Plus the PRC are not as forgiving toward the Japanese, as we have been, about establishing a satellite empire in Manchuria -called Manchukuo- during W.W.II. > ---------- > From: Scott Orr > >We are not there to slow an advance of northern communists; a more > likely reason is to stop the south from "unifying the north" by force. > I really can't see that happening--WHY would they do it? I mean, they're > going to have problems enough integrating North Korea whenever > reunification happens (peacefully), without adding the difficult of an > invasion and armed occupation to that. As to why the South would rise again? Nationalism. The Republic of Korea (ROK) has a national spirit similar to Israel's. While YOU can't see it happening, the PRC thinks (and US troops stationed there) that this is more likely to happen then the "Economically Advanced" NKPA polluting their purity by going south. Also, it already has happened once before in 1951. (Yeah sure, ROK was just kicking the commies out -It was the UN that got a little carried away.) As the PRC remembers it: It doesn't matter who started it, the US (oh I meant the UN) was ready to cross the Yalu and just HAD to be stopped. And stop us they did; the PRC kicked our butts all the way back to the 38th. (How? Well there is a LOT more to it than just tossing a couple of hundred thousand Chinese at the UN.) I agree with Snakeyes when he said; "And if anyone still thinks the Chinese military can't feed the US a giant sandwich over this, a lot of you might be in for a rude awakening. > ---------- > From: Scott Orr > >China does have the ability to threaten. > >Such a feint would tie up one or two of our carrier groups. > You can't credibly threaten to do something you don't have the ability to > do. China simply doesn't have enough amphibious craft to mount an > invasion > of such a large place as Taiwan. (And were we to think something China > did > threatening, we would not need _two_ carrier groups--they don't have a big > navy). While it may be smart not to react to a PRC feint with two CVBGs, that is how we have reacted in the past. Part of the reason is to show the PRC our commitment to our forward invasion base- Code Name Formosa -I mean the peaceful (yet economically challenged;) people of Taiwan. We are COMMITTED to Taiwan. We have consistently said and demonstrated, since before the end of W.W.II, that Taiwan's security is in our national interest. Another reason, is that two CVBGs are not so much a response to the PRC "Navy", as much as it is a projection of air power. We want to control the air space over Taiwan in such an engagement. As Snakeyes put it so well: ".If they can establish an effective naval blockade and maintain even a remote semblance of regional air superiority, they can sail their "Marines" in on the Love Boat" (I always suspected that some foreign power owned the Love Boat;) As to what port the PRC would use well that is why commies have SO MANY special forces. > ---------- > From: Loonz > CNN doesn't report how many times these guys came out to meet us screaming > and threatening to engage. Then when told politely to stand down they left > and went home. A game I can tell ya the Brits and the French are very > good at playing, we aren't as good as them but we have done it also with > success. I'm not belittling the Chinese or any of those screamers either > but facts is facts. The PRC "navy" does this to measure our response. They feint to see how we are trained to respond. Like in any fight: you feint; note your opponents response; feint again while attacking the hole in his defense. They also are training their swabs while they gather intel. > > Is Zek101's geography that far off? What if the NKPA decides to > move south this winter because a couple of our carrier groups are tied up > off the coast of a newly independent Taiwan? > I think this scenario is far-fetched, but yes, it would overstretch the > U.S. Every winter the NKPA mobilizes toward the 38th parallel, and then pulls back. "Oh we're just stretching says the NKPA; Never mind us." Why during winter? The ground is hard enough to keep tanks off the roads. >Dwight Looney wrote: >isn't the real objective to take the South intact? >They'll have to prep better for that than just catch US with our back turned. Well, North Korea isn't entirely rational (by our standards) sometimes. They might want to take it--in any condition. Both sides have been preparing, for this fight, since the Cease Fire in 1953. Remember this war is still on -neither side has sued for peace. Each side is ready to fight now -today. As Zek101 says: remember north korea is ready to invade south at a moments notices if china goes so does north korea with Chinese reforcements to boot. Zek101 knows what he is talking about. > --------- >Dwight Looney wrote: The geography is perfect to keep a CVBG at bay, or even two. Considering they would be within strike range of the Chinese ,mainland. But the Chinese would lose tons of hard to replace hardware. That kind of operation goes against there basic strategic principles, they can't overwhelm the target do to lack of mission specific craft. Plus why tangle with a cat and mouse operation against the US Navy unless they KNEW we would be slow to respond. I agree Loonz, but they would do it if they felt threatened enough to think Taiwan was in danger of becoming a forward American base -like for example if Taiwan declared independence. Not for economic reasons, but for security reasons. Abel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:04:53 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: RE: Kitchen Tools (was: America Bashing) > ---------- > From: ~ Snake Eyes > Jim Lawrie wrote: > > I've got this really cool can-opener recently, it grabs the can > and cuts > >the top of it rather than just gouging a groove in the top. > > I'm sorry if this is not interesting but I find this relentless > > >just as boring. > Yeah, I've got the Safety-Can AND the EuroSealer. I get far more use out > of the former than the latter. I soon hope to acquire the little doodad > that lets you carve up grapefruits. > Oh Jim, opening cans is not boring and *very* topical to T2K. We bought one of those "can grabbers" for work, but it don't! #;^) As far as knives and cans I use Cold Steel's BUSHMAN. Only TEN bucks for a great field knife! Abel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:35:28 -0500 From: "Garcia, Abel" Subject: DIRTY TRICKS FOR TRICKY REFS (was On subject) > ---------- > From: Loonz > Once I threw a rep yard out there to fix a couple of border line vehicles > in > their group. They went nuts begging for this and whining about that. > So... > Days later after repairs they came to an impact crater and use the gieger > counter to check when they were clear. For some reason the counter > wouldn't stop clicking even after I told them it wasn't broken and they > fixed it anyways.:-) > Good one; I am stealing this one #8^) I want more! (I sound like my PCs;) Has the list ever had a Dirty Tricks for Refs thread? Here is one I have tried (but so has everyone else probably): On failed task rolls I hand the PC a note that reads, "you see/find nothing (hand the note back)"; When there is nothing to find I hand them the same note regardless of the roll. I may only do it with one player; you know the type who steals a can of peaches and won't share his treasure with the rest of the group. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:08:54 +1000 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Other electricty generating ideas for Twlight: 2000 Chuck Mandus wrote: > Do military vehicles have a huge 24 volt battery or do they run > with two 12 volt batteries in series. I'm familiar enough with > "civvy" vehicles and their 12 volt systems, but not as much with > the 24 volt system of military vehicles. Well I can only speak about Australian vehicles really, but I'd guess that its the same over most of the west. We Use 2 x 2 x 12v Bttys in series for our radios, and the vehicles have their own 12v system seperate, for ignition and the like. And as we use Land Rovers like the UK, I suppose that they use a similar system these days. > One question I like to know is all or most military vehicles have > a 24 volt system, even vehicles like Humvees and trucks too? Not the ones I've seen.(But that leaves rather a lot of vehicles out there!) Land Rovers and Unimogs all (IIRC) have a base 12v system, and a 24v generator for the radios, if needed. - -- Cheers Damian Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/4808/ pay a visit, and please don't forget the Guestbook... ICQ? #14030875 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:07:45 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: On subject At 06:03 AM 7/30/99 -0500, Scott Kalkwarf wrote: >Thanks guys and once agian sorry for the little altercation/ flame with the >socialists. > Huh? I don't recall a single socialist idea being expressed on this list....If you're going to call people names, at least make it accurate. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 21:14:16 From: "Timothy Moerke" Subject: Re: America Bashing >The twisted social logic that leads a Serb to justify killing an Albanian, >or a Hutu a Tutsi, or an Israeli a Palestinian, or even that which lets the >Chinese military roll a tank over a student dissident is not by any stretch >of the human imagination the same logic that allows a rational and educated >American citizen to question the moral basis on which the US has somehow >become required and expected to schlep our boys all over the damn planet to >put out regional and cultural brush fires that have been smoldering for >centuries. I don't know for sure, but I doubt very much that the women I know in the armed forces would like being referred to as "boys" (or even "men," for that matter). :) T.P.M. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:33:30 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: ROTC At 02:48 PM 7/30/99 -0700, Peter Vieth wrote: >anyone have comments on ROTC? heh they keep sending me mail about >college money, I just want to see what people besides their PR guys have >to say heh > It really depends on what you want to do--if you want to be an officer, even if it's only for a short time, it's a good possibility. If you don't have another source of college funds, and if you can get a scholarship, it's a pretty good deal. If you think you can stomach the military life and if you're the sort of person who's willing to try out things to find out if he likes them, then it might be something you want to look into. Be aware that there are other ways to get into the military as an officer--the Navy for instance recruits really good students in engineering and physics to go to nuclear power school (Adm. Rickover, who was in many ways an idiot, made it so that all submarine officers had to go to power school, leading to a severe shortage of officers...), which pays a huge amount of money to you as a junior or senior, and you never have to put on a uniform until after you graduate. And that's just one example--there are other routes as well (e.g., if you want to be a doctor, and are willing to join up, they might pay your way to med school). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:52:07 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: RE: China Anyone? [Longer] You might want to be careful about your attributions--they're not clear at all. At 06:47 PM 7/30/99 -0500, Garcia, Abel wrote: >> ---------- >> From: Scott Orr >> Zek101@aol.com wrote: >> >its to china's gain to renforce north korea >> It's to China's gain to join a war it wasn't involved in already? I don't >> think so. >Scott, >You do not understand what the People's Republic of China (PRC) thinks it >loses when North Korea loses this reunification battle. The PRC is a >paranoid state. How paranoid? It is so paranoid that it even controls the >weather in Beijing; since the opening round of the Cold War in 1953, with >the cease fire in Korea, Beijing has not allowed the temperature to rise >above 98.6F! This summer for the first time during the Cold War -in the >interest in a more "open" press- the temperature was "allowed" to rise to >104 in weather reports! This is a regime that thinks breathing exercises >are a threat to national security. Paranoid people are not prone to risk nuclear wars, especially wars they'll inevitably come out on the losing end of. > >The PRC thinks that the USA has the same intentions, toward Asia, that it >has - Domination. The PRC sees North Korea as a safety buffer FROM >invasion. Not only does the PRC think we have McArther's brain in a >Futurama jar -just waiting to once again cross the Yalu river north-, but it >also does not trust those techno "pseudo-pacifists" the Japanese. (Heck they >probably think that the Japanese are the ones who developed this brain jar >technology -shoot McArther WAS Japan's shogun in a real post nuke warzone;) >And all of Asia "knows" that Japan is just an American forward base to >launch an invasion, first into North Korea (so thinks the PRC), then into >the rest of Asia. Plus the PRC are not as forgiving toward the Japanese, as >we have been, about establishing a satellite empire in Manchuria -called >Manchukuo- during W.W.II. > I don't think you're giving the Chinese enough credit--yes, they see the U.S. as a threat, but I think they see the U.S. more as a threat to their own plans to dominate Asia, than as an expansionist power (but of course the U.S. is already the "hegemon" in the area with the status quo). As for Japan, China arguably has closer relations with Japan right now than with the U.S., at least in economic terms. The two have been _very_ friendly lately. >> ---------- >> From: Scott Orr >>>We are not there to slow an advance of northern communists; a more >>>likely reason is to stop the south from "unifying the north" by force. >> I really can't see that happening--WHY would they do it? I mean, they're >> going to have problems enough integrating North Korea whenever >> reunification happens (peacefully), without adding the difficult of an >> invasion and armed occupation to that. >As to why the South would rise again? Nationalism. The Republic of Korea >(ROK) has a national spirit similar to Israel's. > >While YOU can't see it happening, the PRC thinks (and US troops stationed >there) that this is more likely to happen then the "Economically Advanced" >NKPA polluting their purity by going south. I have trouble believing that China really thinks South Korea will attempt a reunification by force--through corrupt capitalist bribes, maybe, but not force. If you've seen evidence to the contrary, I'd genuinely be interested in hearing it. [Snip.] >> ---------- >>From: Scott Orr >> >China does have the ability to threaten. >> >Such a feint would tie up one or two of our carrier groups. >>You can't credibly threaten to do something you don't have the ability to >>do. China simply doesn't have enough amphibious craft to mount an >>invasion of such a large place as Taiwan. (And were we to think something >>China did threatening, we would not need _two_ carrier groups--they don't >>have a big navy). >While it may be smart not to react to a PRC feint with two CVBGs, that is >how we have reacted in the past. Part of the reason is to show the PRC our >commitment to our forward invasion base- Code Name Formosa -I mean the >peaceful (yet economically challenged;) people of Taiwan. We are COMMITTED >to Taiwan. We have consistently said and demonstrated, since before the end >of W.W.II, that Taiwan's security is in our national interest. Another >reason, is that two CVBGs are not so much a response to the PRC "Navy", as >much as it is a projection of air power. We want to control the air space >over Taiwan in such an engagement. Yes, and I don't think doing so requires two CVBG's, though it makes a nice forceful gesture to send two of them--but having both isn't critical if we need one somewhere else. (If we really want to control the airspace, in a real emergency, we can send in USAF units--the Taiwanese airbases have an impressive plane-handling capability. The real advantage of the CVBG is that it's less politically inflammatory than putting U.S. aircraft on soil that the P.R.C. claims as its own.) >As Snakeyes put it so well: ".If they >can establish an effective naval blockade and maintain even a remote >semblance of regional air superiority, they can sail their "Marines" in on >the Love Boat" (I always suspected that some foreign power owned the Love >Boat;) As was pointed out by more than one person, this is completely wrong, and reflects an ignorance of the actual history of amphibious invasions. >As to what port the PRC would use well that is why commies have SO >MANY special forces. > Huh? Special forces don't give you the ability to skip the amphibious part of an amphibious invasion. Indeed, I'm not even sure what you mean here. >> ---------- >> From: Loonz >> CNN doesn't report how many times these guys came out to meet us screaming >> and threatening to engage. Then when told politely to stand down they left >> and went home. A game I can tell ya the Brits and the French are very >> good at playing, we aren't as good as them but we have done it also with >> success. I'm not belittling the Chinese or any of those screamers either >> but facts is facts. >The PRC "navy" does this to measure our response. They feint to see how we >are trained to respond. Like in any fight: you feint; note your opponents >response; feint again while attacking the hole in his defense. They also >are training their swabs while they gather intel. > Yes, obviously--but this doesn't make them capable of conducting actual combat against our navy. >>> Is Zek101's geography that far off? What if the NKPA decides to >>> move south this winter because a couple of our carrier groups are tied up >>> off the coast of a newly independent Taiwan? >> I think this scenario is far-fetched, but yes, it would overstretch the >> U.S. >Every winter the NKPA mobilizes toward the 38th parallel, and then pulls >back. "Oh we're just stretching says the NKPA; Never mind us." Why during >winter? The ground is hard enough to keep tanks off the roads. > Okay; does the above make this scenario any less far-fetched, though? >>Dwight Looney wrote: >>>isn't the real objective to take the South intact? >>>They'll have to prep better for that than just catch US >>>with our back turned. >>Well, North Korea isn't entirely rational (by our standards) >>sometimes. They might want to take it--in any condition. >Both sides have been preparing, for this fight, since the Cease Fire in >1953. Remember this war is still on -neither side has sued for peace. Each >side is ready to fight now -today. As Zek101 says: remember north korea is >ready to invade south at a moments notices if china goes so does north korea >with Chinese reforcements to boot. Zek101 knows what he is talking about. > They may be (theoretically) "ready", but that doesn't mean they'd actually do it. It's still stupid (but as I said before, North Korea isn't entirely rational by our standards). >> --------- >Dwight Looney wrote: >>The geography is perfect to keep a CVBG at bay, or even two. >>Considering they would be within strike range of the Chinese ,mainland. But >>the Chinese would lose tons of hard to replace hardware. That kind of >>operation goes against there basic strategic principles, they can't >>overwhelm the target do to lack of mission specific craft. Plus why tangle >>with a cat and mouse operation against the US Navy unless they KNEW we would >>be slow to respond. >I agree Loonz, but they would do it if they felt threatened enough to think >Taiwan was in danger of becoming a forward American base -like for example >if Taiwan declared independence. Not for economic reasons, but for security >reasons. > Losing a war isn't typically good for your security--thoguh they might indeed feel pushed into a corner, with no option (since it's a bad precedent to allow your "territories" to declare independence). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #57 ************************************ To subscribe to Twilight2000-Digest, send the command: subscribe twilight2000-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com". 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