twilight2000-digest Monday, July 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 053 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Thoughts China Anyone? On Balkanization Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: On Balkanization Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: China Anyone? Re: On Balkanization Re: China Anyone? Re: China Anyone? Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Re: Sundry Radio thoughts testing Re: Sundry Radio thoughts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:54:16 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Thoughts - -----Original Message----- From: Scott David Orr To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Saturday, 24 July 1999 7:24 Subject: Re: Thoughts >At 04:25 PM 7/23/99 +1000, Jim & Peta Lawrie wrote: >> >> Wasn't this kind of discussion why this alternate list got started ? Try >>and talk about the Role Playing Game guys! > >No, this list got started because when the new publisher bought the game, >they ignored the previous lists and started their own. > >Scott Orr Yep, your right I got it totally wrong. My apologies. Jim >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 12:15:44 +1000 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts - -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Mandus To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Saturday, 24 July 1999 8:23 Subject: Sundry Radio thoughts >In a Twilight: 2000 world, you'd see a return to a lot of simple radios, >perhaps even using tubes. Crystal sets will be popular since they don't use >batteries. There are many types you can make from the standard crystal sets >they had in the 1920's to even the "Foxhole Radio" that many GI's made in >WWII. I have quite a few books from the 1920's to the 1970's on radio so >there are many plans in there. Hams would become a main part of the >communications network again, especially for the civilian sector. I wish I >could go into detail here but I'm getting a bit long so I'll leave it up to >questions from anyone who has any. > >Chuck > >DE KA3WRW That was great ! I wonder how many channels the average RTO would have to monitor ? Larry Bond in "Red Phoenix" mentions his LT having a link to artillery and his commander, but I wonder if there were considerably more local channels the fictional LT was not permitted or had no reason to use ? Does anyone have any experience with small unit command ? I know I can just say to PC's "yeah, it works" but one of my players needs be an RTO so I'd like to get him some more detail. Jim. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:00:57 PDT From: "Chas York" Subject: Re: Thoughts Stephen Dragoo wrote: > > > As for liberals and their views, I do not advocate shooting them. Aside > > from the fact that murder is morally, ethically, and legally wrong, it'd >be > > a waste of a good bullet . If anything, I only take a dislike to >the > > ultra-liberal point of view, and the effects it has had on us. After >all, > > without them we wouldn't have frivolous lawsuits filed by criminals who >were > > injured by the very private citizens they tried to assault or steal >from... > >Yes my favorite is the mugger who was mugging an old lady, was shot in the >back by a security guard, lost the use of his legs, and won $4million in a >suit against the guard. And justice for all. > > >-- >([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) >(-[http://www.netcom.com/~fitek]-) Unfortunately, these suits happen, but it isn't a LIBERAL law that gave us this particular loophole.-- the philosophy behind this one is ancient: Lethal force can only be used to counter lethal force (in my state, it can be used to resist serious bodily injury, rape, kidnapping, or attempted murder, not purse snatching). In other words, If we're equally matched in size, and I come after you with my fists- yes, you have the right to self defense, but only at the nonlethal level. If you pull a gun & shoot me, you've become the aggressor in the eyes of the law, and are liable. it's not liberal, and its certainly not new, the tenets are fairly well set in history- hundreds of years. That said, I think the suits are bu****it, the cash rewards are also. I'm not defending the precedent, but please don't rant off- blindly blaming the "Liberals" for issues without knowing the true cause- It makes the rest of us look bad. Finally- this is a T2k forum, sorry for the tangent. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:16:37 -0700 From: Snake Eyes Subject: China Anyone? Hey, instead of howling at each other over American politics, anybody wanna speculate wildly about the rapidly devolving situation in the Strait of Formosa? I smell an old fashioned shootin' war against a (finally) worthy adversary. Discuss. ~ Snake Eyes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:45:37 -0700 From: Snake Eyes Subject: On Balkanization Has anyone developed a T:2000 campaign world wherein the return of the MilGov forces from Europa & the Gulf actually *doesn't* yield reunification? I've never even seen "Howling Wilderness," but I always thought the premise of CivGov/MilGov rallying to wipe out New America was a crappy backdrop (no offense to the authors of an otherwise fantastic roleplaying system). My impression has always been that the geo-political fallout from WWIII would precipitate a rise in insular city-states across the North American continent, growing at first out of the various military cantonments and marauder strongholds. There would be plenty of mutual defense and trade alliances, but I really don't see the good ole US of A ever rising back from the ashes of it's own destruction, especially not along pre-war political lines. Any serious reconstruction efforts would be more likely influenced by real geophysical boundaries and the current ethnic/cultural makeup of the local populace. The socio-economic & political scene is practically at the breaking point as it is before the war. It would make sense to me that the ensuing apocalypse would provide all the fodder necessary for making a clean break from a federal system that many thought had become too far-reaching following the "New Deal" and was otherwise terminally flawed. It would be a prime opportunity for the Posse Comitatus folks to commence locally with abolition of any government above the county level. Secession fever would run rampant, old regional hostilities would flare up, and many areas would see no reason to ever even *bother* sending delegates back to the smoldering crater that was Washington, DC. Any thoughts? ~ Snake Eyes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 07:37:39 +0100 From: "Roger Stenning" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Chuck - Damn good briefing. Well done! Best regards, 73 OM! Roger Stenning G1LIW (Licenced Class 'B' UK Radio Amateur) ISG Web Design Services http://www.abel.net.uk/~isg/index.html (Contact me for my PGP Public Key). - ---------------------------------------------------- Member of the HTML Writers Guild http://www.hwg.org/ - -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Mandus To: twilight2000@lists.imagiconline.com Date: 23 July 1999 23:24 Subject: Sundry Radio thoughts [snip] >Jim, > >Well, you would have a lot of ham operators around with varying degrees of >shortwave, VHF, and UHF radios ranging from old military models to newer >ones. The question is so broad, I can get real verbose here. [massive snip] >Chuck > >DE KA3WRW *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:49:01 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: On Balkanization Subject: On Balkanization > Has anyone developed a T:2000 campaign world wherein the return of the > MilGov forces from Europa & the Gulf actually *doesn't* yield > reunification? I've never even seen "Howling Wilderness," but I always > thought the premise of CivGov/MilGov rallying to wipe out New America was a > crappy backdrop (no offense to the authors of an otherwise fantastic > roleplaying system). HW is a rag correct, but I don't think they got together to take out NA (in Kidnapped), Im not sure who does it I'd have to dig out the module. Either way your correct it wasn't viable glad I missed it for 10 years. > My impression has always been that the geo-political fallout from WWIII > would precipitate a rise in insular city-states across the North American > continent, growing at first out of the various military cantonments and > marauder strongholds. There would be plenty of mutual defense and trade > alliances, but I really don't see the good ole US of A ever rising back > from the ashes of it's own destruction, especially not along pre-war > political lines. Any serious reconstruction efforts would be more likely > influenced by real geophysical boundaries and the current ethnic/cultural > makeup of the local populace. IMC the US Constitution is the only document everyone is familiar with and is regualarly the center point of of negotiation. IMC a constitutional convention was called under the agreement that the document upto it's last ammendment would be unaltered. Ammendments were added to limit Federal interference with states rights at the 3rd Continental congress. IMC we had Native American tribes resettle thier homelands. The Mormon Church expand it's borders out of Utah. (Utah temporarely seceded as did West Virginia). New Jersey was basically vaporized at both ends and ended up a protectorate with a Federal Governor for awhile. Pirate bands on the Mississippi were a big problem, as were the Seminole seperatists. And a large portion of the Appalachians had to be convinced to stay with the Union. The longest we gamed it was 30 some years after TEOTWAWKI, having to generate young bucks to go with ole' timers on some missions. > The socio-economic & political scene is practically at the breaking point > as it is before the war. It would make sense to me that the ensuing > apocalypse would provide all the fodder necessary for making a clean break > from a federal system that many thought had become too far-reaching > following the "New Deal" and was otherwise terminally flawed. It would be > a prime opportunity for the Posse Comitatus folks to commence locally with > abolition of any government above the county level. Secession fever would > run rampant, old regional hostilities would flare up, and many areas would > see no reason to ever even *bother* sending delegates back to the > smoldering crater that was Washington, DC. IMC campaign alot of insular groups were brokered autonomy or outright independence. As long as they did not interfere with the reconstruction. Which they did do and the boys coming home from Korea had to step in. The Territory of South Florida was another hot spot, as was any just about anywhere off the paved road. :-) Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:51:50 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Subject: Sundry Radio thoughts > > Great point ! What is the state of communications in t2k > > Well, you would have a lot of ham operators around with varying degrees of > shortwave, VHF, and UHF radios ranging from old military models to newer > ones. The question is so broad, I can get real verbose here. Basically, ... Chuck would you mind if I posted your lesson so we won't loose it again. Great job. Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:38:15 -0400 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim & Peta Lawrie To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 10:15 PM Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts > That was great ! I wonder how many channels the average RTO would have > to monitor ? Larry Bond in "Red Phoenix" mentions his LT having a link to > artillery and his commander, but I wonder if there were considerably more > local channels the fictional LT was not permitted or had no reason to use ? > Does anyone have any experience with small unit command ? I know I can just > say to PC's "yeah, it works" but one of my players needs be an RTO so I'd > like to get him some more detail. > Jim. I really don't know about military comms too much but I'm sure they would have a number of channels assigned to them instead of just one. You would usually find those comms in the 30 - 54 Mc band here in the U.S. When the sun acts up, I pick up Fort Hood Range Control for artillery on 30.450 Mc (Narrowband FM mode) on my scanner. They practice with tank guns, artillery, machine guns, etc. Very interesting to listen too. I've checked my scanner books and shortwave magazines and most places do have several frequencies assigned to them. How the Army decided who uses what freqs and when, I'm not sure although one ot two might be used for the guards at the base to keep in touch with HQ while others are comms between tanks, artillery, and so on. I guess in Twilight: 2000, things would be more relaxed in the usage of frequencies, you use what you can. Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 13:50:13 -0400 From: "CDServices" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts - ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Stenning To: Sent: Saturday, July 24, 1999 2:37 AM Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts > > > Chuck - > > Damn good briefing. Well done! > > Best regards, > > 73 OM! > > Roger Stenning > G1LIW > (Licenced Class 'B' UK Radio Amateur) I try my best. BTW, I'm a Technician Plus. Here in the U.S., we have a no-code Technician license with full privileges above 30 Mc (actually 50 Mc, we don't have any ham bands in the 30 - 50 Mc). However a Technician Plus is a Technician with a 5 WPM CW endorsement. so I have CW privileges on HF along with voice (SSB from 28.3 to 28.5 Mc) on 10 meters. What does a class "B" do in the UK? Also, you have a 70 Mc band (4 meters) over there but is it used a lot? I guess to keep it somewhat Twilight: 2000 related, I know if it happened here in the U.S., you would have amateurs stepping up to fill in the void for communications along with official groups like RACES and ARES that are set up for emergency communications. Do you have similar groups in the UK? Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:52:33 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: China Anyone? At 12:16 AM 7/24/99 -0700, Snake Eyes wrote: > >Hey, instead of howling at each other over American politics, anybody wanna >speculate wildly about the rapidly devolving situation in the Strait of >Formosa? > >I smell an old fashioned shootin' war against a (finally) worthy adversary. > >Discuss. > What's to discuss? China flatly lacks the capability to invade Taiwan--they don't have the amphibious assets. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:00:25 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: On Balkanization At 12:45 AM 7/24/99 -0700, Snake Eyes wrote: > >Has anyone developed a T:2000 campaign world wherein the return of the >MilGov forces from Europa & the Gulf actually *doesn't* yield >reunification? I've never even seen "Howling Wilderness," but I always >thought the premise of CivGov/MilGov rallying to wipe out New America was a >crappy backdrop (no offense to the authors of an otherwise fantastic >roleplaying system). > >My impression has always been that the geo-political fallout from WWIII >would precipitate a rise in insular city-states across the North American >continent, growing at first out of the various military cantonments and >marauder strongholds. There would be plenty of mutual defense and trade >alliances, but I really don't see the good ole US of A ever rising back >from the ashes of it's own destruction, especially not along pre-war >political lines. Any serious reconstruction efforts would be more likely >influenced by real geophysical boundaries and the current ethnic/cultural >makeup of the local populace. > The ethnic population of the U.S. is very mixed, save for a few concentrations mostly in cities (and even there it's _within_ cities, not between cities). The culture is fairly uniform, at least by historical standards. >The socio-economic & political scene is practically at the breaking point >as it is before the war. It would make sense to me that the ensuing >apocalypse would provide all the fodder necessary for making a clean break >from a federal system that many thought had become too far-reaching >following the "New Deal" and was otherwise terminally flawed. It would be >a prime opportunity for the Posse Comitatus folks to commence locally with >abolition of any government above the county level. Secession fever would >run rampant, old regional hostilities would flare up, and many areas would >see no reason to ever even *bother* sending delegates back to the >smoldering crater that was Washington, DC. > The people who think those things (at least, in a very committed way), about the federal government and the New Deal, are a small minority, so no, I don't see that. (BTW, "federalism" isn't the word for what you mean above--"federalism" refers to government that's in part devolved from the central government to lower levels, and therefore means roughly the opposite of what you meant.) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 15:18:54 EDT From: Zek101@aol.com Subject: Re: China Anyone? well accually china and north korea have the ability and the will to destroy the us army and marine corp on the korean pennissula. us forces would arrive one unit at a time and would be cut to peices tring to hold the line and today's american youth are cowards and would roit rather than flock to the recrute depots. then with american millitary deffeated in the pacific rim of fire american would drift into anarchy and fiinally a secound revoultion between liberals and conservitives. i for one have been an active duty paratrooper for the last 7 years and i know that most of my guys in my rifle squad are hear for the college money not to deffend old glory *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:51:18 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: China Anyone? Zek101@aol.com wrote: > well accually china and north korea have the ability and the will to destroy > the us army and marine corp on the korean pennissula. us forces would arrive > one unit at a time and would be cut to peices tring to hold the line and > today's american youth are cowards and would roit rather than flock to the > recrute depots. then with american millitary deffeated in the pacific rim of > fire american would drift into anarchy and fiinally a secound revoultion > between liberals and conservitives. i for one have been an active duty > paratrooper for the last 7 years and i know that most of my guys in my rifle > squad are hear for the college money not to deffend old glory > hey are you related to monkeyboy in any way? formosa is not korea, but taiwan - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:33:54 +1000 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Chuck Mandus wrote: > I really don't know about military comms too much but I'm sure they > would have a number of channels assigned to them instead of just > one. You would usually find those comms in the 30 - 54 Mc band here > in the U.S. When the sun acts up, I pick up Fort Hood Range > Control for artillery on 30.450 Mc (Narrowband FM mode) on my > scanner. They practice with tank guns, artillery, machine guns, > etc. Very interesting to listen too. I've checked my scanner books > and shortwave magazines and most places do have several frequencies > assigned to them. How the Army decided who uses what freqs and > when, I'm not sure although one ot two might be used for the guards > at the base to keep in touch with HQ while others are comms between > tanks, artillery, and so on. I guess in Twilight: 2000, things > would be more relaxed in the usage of frequencies, you use what you > can. > > Chuck > > DE KA3WRW I can't really say what Freq ranges that the US would use, but by Twilight 2000, it would be a case of units would be pulling there own SOI's [1] out of thin air. Any frequency from 30 mHz up to 90 mHz is fair game for most sub unit radios (the Mil VHF band), as thats the range that most western army tactical radio's fall into. A typical freqency designation would be 33.25, or 57.75 for your old faithful PRC 77 sets, or for the more modern digital sets, 33.250 or 45.125 even. Steps of .25 mHz are normal to give some distance between freq's. And as for the nets that the RTO/muppet/sig [2] would use, most radios only recieve on one net at a time [3], so unless you have several recievers, you're stuck to one radio net. [1] Signal Operating Instructions [2] some of the printable nicknames for a radio operator [3] although there are some, more modern radios that do tell you if someone is transmitting on another net, but you still don't recieve the actual messages from that other net. You also have to set the frequency that the radio is scanning for traffis, its not like your civvy scanner, that scans the whole range. - -- Cheers Damian Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/4808/ pay a visit, and please don't forget the Guestbook... ICQ? #14030875 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:41:27 -0400 From: "Dwight Looney" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts > > I can't really say what Freq ranges that the US would use, but by > Twilight 2000, it would be a case of units would be pulling there own > SOI's [1] out of thin air. Any frequency from 30 mHz up to 90 mHz is > fair game for most sub unit radios (the Mil VHF band), as thats the > range that most western army tactical radio's fall into. A typical > freqency designation would be 33.25, or 57.75 for your old faithful > PRC 77 sets, or for the more modern digital sets, 33.250 or 45.125 > even. Steps of .25 mHz are normal to give some distance between > freq's. > > And as for the nets that the RTO/muppet/sig [2] would use, most radios > only recieve on one net at a time [3], so unless you have several > recievers, you're stuck to one radio net. > > > [1] Signal Operating Instructions > [2] some of the printable nicknames for a radio operator > [3] although there are some, more modern radios that do tell you if > someone is transmitting on another net, but you still don't recieve > the actual messages from that other net. You also have to set the > frequency that the radio is scanning for traffis, its not like your > civvy scanner, that scans the whole range. > -- As a caveat to Damians points most (actually all Mil-Std or STANAG, the standards for US, NATO) will receive on frequency 243.0 Mil Air Distress or 121.5 International Air Distress, there is two others but I don't remember. When calling on these frequencies end your call with the phrase "on Guard" so the operator knows to change his transmitting channel to talk to you. Loonz *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:46:09 -0400 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwight Looney To: Sent: Saturday, July 24, 1999 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts > > Chuck would you mind if I posted your lesson so we won't loose it again. > Great job. > > Loonz Sure, no problem. Post at as much as you like. I was going to post it every so often as well, it's better than typing it in all the time from scratch. B-) Chuck DE KA3WRW - --- "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:46:02 -0400 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts - ----- Original Message ----- From: Damian Robinson To: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 1999 3:33 AM Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts > I can't really say what Freq ranges that the US would use, but by > Twilight 2000, it would be a case of units would be pulling there own > SOI's [1] out of thin air. Any frequency from 30 mHz up to 90 mHz is > fair game for most sub unit radios (the Mil VHF band), as thats the > range that most western army tactical radio's fall into. A typical > freqency designation would be 33.25, or 57.75 for your old faithful > PRC 77 sets, or for the more modern digital sets, 33.250 or 45.125 > even. Steps of .25 mHz are normal to give some distance between > freq's. I seem to notice that most VHF-Lo military radios operate in the 29 - 88 Mc (give or take a few megacycles) bands. Here in the U.S., We usually keep ours in the 30 - 54 Mc range since we have TV channels in the 54 - 72 Mc and 76 - 88 Mc areas. However, I have seen some frequency lists for out west where I did notice some uses of the 54 - 72 Mc areas but I guess there would be no TV channels that would occupy those same frequency ranges would be transmitting there. I think a lot of military radios use "medium-wide band FM" mode, sort of in between narrowband FM (approximatly 5 kc wide - like the police, fire, public service, and amateur radios do) and wide band FM (50+ kc wide - like in TV audio and FM broadcast). Medium wide is like 10+ kc wide or maybe 15. However, they come in quite nicely when I use Narrowband FM on my scanners so that's really no biggie from a civvy viewpoint. I think that's why the military has signals separated every 25 kc. Here in the States, most VHF-Lo channels are spaced 20 kc apart for most services but that was assigned way back in the 1940's when you had equipment that did not have the adjacent channel separation that we do now. I know in Australia, you do have VHF TV channels in that ranges too, usless they were phased out, so I guess you have to watch tere too. My Pro-2004 scanner picks up from 25 - 520 Mc and 760 - 1300 Mc so it's pretty wide. I can also modify my Pro-43 handheld to receive the 54 - 88 Mc bands too, but I haven't since I don't really need to. If I took it abroad, it's a different story. > [1] Signal Operating Instructions > [2] some of the printable nicknames for a radio operator > [3] although there are some, more modern radios that do tell you if > someone is transmitting on another net, but you still don't recieve > the actual messages from that other net. You also have to set the > frequency that the radio is scanning for traffis, its not like your > civvy scanner, that scans the whole range. Sounds like you got some sort of SELCAL system set up. SELCAL is a general term that stands for SELective CALling. It's been around for a while where you programs a set of radios in your group to open the squelch so you can receive calls from the other radios in your group. SELCAL is used on most transoceanic airplane flights on HF (shortwave) where you have each plane assigned two double tones. We ham radio operators do have a similar system too. Some repeaters do have a thing called a PL tone to activate the repeater. PL stands for Private Line, which was first used in the 1960's or 1970's by commercial two-way radios. The PL tone is a subaudible tone (from 67 - 250 cycles per second) sent when you key the mike. Sometimes adjacent areas have two or more repeaters on the same frequency so the various repeaters have different PL tones so the ham could use the desired one without bringing the others online if you're in a "fringe area" in between them. It is also useful when conditions are right where your signal "skips" a great distance. I was talking on a local Pittsburgh repeater on 146.730 Mc and I was bringing up another one on the same frequency in Smethport, PA, about 100+ miles to the north, all on one watt from my handheld transceiver going into a 5/8th wave mobile antenna. Both repeaters have an "open squelch" where the PL tones is either off or none is set up. Some businesses that use PL tones share the same frequency and many such radios have a blinking light but no traffic comes through the speaker to let you know the frequency/repeater is in use so your signal doesn't "walk over" theirs. If I had to go out on a limb, I guess in a TW2K situation, I never used a military radio in my life, but if you want to scan and/or look for other military or civvy ham radio contacts, I guess you'd have to turn off your SELCAL, PL tone, or what other system you use for your group and just program the frequency ranges and whatnot to hunt down signals or tune them manually. Chuck DE KA3WRW *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:49:42 +1000 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Chuck Mandus wrote: > I know in Australia, you do have VHF TV channels in that ranges too, > usless they were phased out, so I guess you have to watch there too. Well we can get one TV station on our VHF radio's, but its right up in the 84 mHz range (IIRC), and we normally seem to work in the middle of the bands anyway. Besides, we need to listen to the news out bush, and its one way to hear the soaps as well! :-{> And I doubt that our little Max 5w radio's are not going to dent the commercial stations transmission either! > Sounds like you got some sort of SELCAL system set up. SELCAL is a > general term that stands for SELective CALling. It's been around > for a while where you programs a set of radios in your group to > open the squelch so you can receive calls from the other radios in > your group. SELCAL is used on most transoceanic airplane flights > on HF (shortwave) where you have each plane assigned two double > tones. I don't think so. The Latest radio is all digital display, and I think it just picks up the transmission and tells you that the other net has traffic of some sort or another. Then you have to change over to the other net manually, and talk away. Its good if you have to monitor several nets, but only have a limited number of radio's. (Typical army thinking, you've got to monitor 5 nets, and you've only got 3 radio's!. Lucky one guy there was a Ham operator, and had a scanner there. We used that to listen to the less used nets, and the army radio's for the nets we talked on all the time.) - -- Cheers Damian Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dreamworld/4808/ pay a visit, and please don't forget the Guestbook... ICQ? #14030875 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:18:25 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Damian Robinson wrote: > Chuck Mandus wrote: > > Does anyone know of any sites that have more basic information than this? I used to build short waves radios and stuff like six years ago just for fun, but I never learned anything past the electronics, and this thread is getting harder and harder to understand :) - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://sanitarium.computers-radio.com]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:31:58 +0100 From: "Lee Williams" Subject: testing This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BED773.9E115720 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a test. My server has been offline. Apologies for the spam. - ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BED773.9E115720 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a test. My server has been offline. Apologies for the=20 spam. - ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BED773.9E115720-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:42:08 +0100 From: "Roger Stenning" Subject: Re: Sundry Radio thoughts Hi, Chuck, >I try my best. BTW, I'm a Technician Plus. Here in the U.S., we have a >no-code Technician license with full privileges above 30 Mc (actually 50 Mc, >we don't have any ham bands in the 30 - 50 Mc). However a Technician Plus >is a Technician with a 5 WPM CW endorsement. so I have CW privileges on HF >along with voice (SSB from 28.3 to 28.5 Mc) on 10 meters. All UK Radio Amateurs have to pass what's called the RAE, or Radio Amaterus' Exam. This consist two multiple choice (when I took is, MANY years ago, in 1984!) papers, on "Licensing conditions and Transmitter Interference", and "Operating Practices, Procedures and Theory". There's no practical papers or requirement, although many classes run to help people pass the test include that as a matter of course. We also have a Novice examination, which requires pratical passes. >What does a class "B" do in the UK? Also, you have a 70 Mc band (4 meters) >over there but is it used a lot? The class B would, I suppose, equate to your no-code Technician license. The limitations on Class 'B' require operation in the amatuer bands above 30 Mhz, with a couple of output power limitations as well, but none that really affect operation per se. To get access to bands below 30 Mhz, you have to take the Morse Test (now at 5 wpm, IIRC - was 12 wpm, changed in the last couple of months or so). This allows full and unrestricted access to all UK and CEPT recognised Amateur bands, once you pass, and upgrade your licence. I personally stay on 2 metres; 4 metres is used a bit, but I don't know how much. I might very well get on 4 before long, however, as i live in the second floor (third floor up including ground) of a block of flats (US: "apartment block"?), antenna space is a problem. We'll see, anyhow. It's a thought for the future (and finances!) >I guess to keep it somewhat Twilight: 2000 related, I know if it happened >here in the U.S., you would have amateurs stepping up to fill in the void >for communications along with official groups like RACES and ARES that are >set up for emergency communications. Do you have similar groups in the UK? Yup. we'ce got RAENET (Radio Amateur Emergency NETwork), which is administratively run by the Radio Society of Great Britain (RSGB, at www.rsgb.org). FWIW, I operate mobile only, right now (I'm a cab driver full time, running up a business as a web-site designed in my spare time, with the hope that it'll become full time real soon!), and the equipment is: FT290R Mk 1 (12.5 kHz FM channel spacing, to conform with UK specs, and the MuTek MOSFET front end), Homebrew 25 Watt FM-only Amp 5/8 wave base-loaded mobile antenna. It works, and that's what counts ! BTW - my new e-mail address is now: roger@isgwds.enterprise.com 73, Roger Stenning ISG Web Design Services http://www.abel.net.uk/~isg/index.html (Contact me for my PGP Public Key). - ---------------------------------------------------- Member of the HTML Writers Guild http://www.hwg.org/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #53 ************************************ To subscribe to Twilight2000-Digest, send the command: subscribe twilight2000-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-twlight2000": subscribe twlight2000-digest local-twilight2000@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "twilight2000-digest" in the commands above with "twilight2000".