twilight2000-digest Sunday, February 28 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 021 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: GPS/EMP Re: Tank vs. Ship Re: GPS/EMP -> nuclear reactors in space Re: Fw: Navigation. Re: GPS/EMP Re: Fw: Navigation. Mass Combat System??? Re: Tank vs. Ship Re: Tank vs. Ship 1st Edition Errata ? Re: Tank vs. Ship Re: 1st Edition Errata ? Mass Combat System T2K version 1 Re: GPS/EMP Re: Mass Combat System Re: Mass Combat System Re: 1st Edition Errata ? Re: T2K version 1 Re: T2K version 1 Re: T2K version 1 Re: Mass Combat System Re: T2K version 1 Re: T2K version 1 Re: Mass Combat System ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Curran Subject: Re: GPS/EMP - ---Scott David Orr wrote: > > At 09:00 AM 2/26/99 -0800, Michael Curran wrote: > > > >I'm not sure, but I believe there is a ban on putting any nuclear that > >in bigger and more powerful than a battery in space. Weapons are the > >main reason, but they also don't want a large nuclear reaction falling > >out of the sky some day. > > > I don't recall ever hearing about any such treaty, but I haven't heard of > everything. Do you have any idea what treaty it was or when it was signed? > I am not sure of the exact date, though it was near the end of the cold war. However, the treaty is the primary reason we the US, or anyone else, have never sent a nuclear powered craft into space. I thought this would include satellites but I am not sure - -MC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:59:59 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship Scott David Orr wrote: > There was a case in the Falklands of the Argentinians attacking a British > ship with anti-tank missiles (not from a tank, obviously)--as I recall they > drove the ship further out to sea (it was conducting shore bombardment) but > I don't think the damaged it. The Argie frigate took 2-3 66mm M72 SRAAW's and a similar number of 84mm SRAAW's. It was in danger of being sunk (it took several 84mm rounds near the waterline), and it lost the use of its (76mm???) Gun (it was repaired later). The Captain decided (wisely) to leave the Battalion of Argie Marines to take out the platoon of UK Marines. If the frigate had stuck around it was quite possible that it would have been sunk. Cheers Damian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:09:32 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: GPS/EMP -> nuclear reactors in space Josh Baumgartner wrote: > > I'm a personal fan of Dunnigan, I particularly like his 'Quick and > Dirty Guide to War' books for a good rundown of the world's conflicts > and players involved. > S2000 Same here, the wargame like approach to it is interesting, don't think i've ever seen percent chance outcomes for conflicts in books :) - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. Dwight, thank you for being civil. It was my understanding, from the folks in Deck Dept. on the ship I was serving aboard, that a pilot's advice was not to be taken lightly. I know that pilots certainly do not steer the ships, nor directly give the orders, but that they did have a certain amount of knowledge/expertise that went beyond what could be found amongst the navigation charts and notices. Perhaps my captain was bit more respectful of pilots seeing as the previous old man had run a sand bar leaving Perth on his last cruise. This was something that my captain was not wanting repeat I am sure. This coupled with the fact we had no steady home port (Alameda, Bremerton, and Everett during my 3 years aboard) I'm sure added to this. Finally, being the largest warship in the world made everything we did in harbor just that much more difficult. S2000 - ---loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Baumgartner > To: twilight2000@mpgn.com > Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 3:43 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. > > > > > >---loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: > >> > >> > >> >Agreed...simply put: Captains trust pilots. Period. I'm not saying > >> >that some captains don't have a bit of an ego problem about it, but > >> >frankly, the dangers of entering a harbor with a larger ship are so > >> >high, and intense local knowledge of the lanes is so critical that > >> >there really isn't any choice but to trust a pilot. Even in the > >> >harbor where a ship homeports the captain still uses a pilot. Pilots > >> >are the only ones who day-to-day navigate the harbor, so are the only > >> >ones with the experience to do so safely. > >> > > >> That is inaccurate. > >> > > > >Please elaborate... > > > I don't have anything further to add. Pilots do not drive ships, and are > not the soul possesor of navigational data for any port. Any warship of a > developed countrie can and does enter port without the advice of a harbor > pilot. > It's a fact. To suppose otherwise is grossly inaccurate. > > My last post sounded pompous and I apologise. It was late and I was annoyed > and should have shown restraint. > > I truely enjoy giving tours and explaining the buisiness of the Navy, but am > unaccustomed to being disregarded out of hand it threw me. Again Sorry. > > Anyone coming to Hampton Roads can drop a line and I'll make sure your > hooked up with a first class tour. Even you Scott. > > Dwight > loonz857@yahoo.com > http://bookmark.findhere.com > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:39:29 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: GPS/EMP Hi, Michael! Trying to kill the keyboard, burzmali@yahoo.com produced: > I am not sure of the exact date, though it was near the end of the > cold war. However, the treaty is the primary reason we the US, or > anyone else, have never sent a nuclear powered craft into space. I > thought this would include satellites but I am not sure Since you, the US, did send space probes like Voyager, Pioneer 10, the Viking landers, etc. etc. into space, and they all are powered by radio batteries (generating electricity directly from heat ... which comes from radio active decay), that claim surely does not include satellites. I do not know whether the very few manned missions ever had radio batteries, but I assume they did not, since the duration is limited enough or close enough to the sun for solar panels. But any space probe designed for operating further out than say the Mars *can* no longer use solar panels. And not all satellites orbiting the earth *do* use solar panels. Some had just batteries powering them for a few days, some (spy satellites?) use radioactive materials ... which should be ejected to a 'stable' orbit before the end of lifetime of the satellite to prevent it crashing back to earth. - -Wolfgang - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:59:06 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. - -----Original Message----- From: Josh Baumgartner To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 5:07 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. >Dwight, thank you for being civil. It was my understanding, from the >folks in Deck Dept. on the ship I was serving aboard, that a pilot's >advice was not to be taken lightly. I know that pilots certainly do >not steer the ships, nor directly give the orders, but that they did >have a certain amount of knowledge/expertise that went beyond what >could be found amongst the navigation charts and notices. Perhaps my >captain was bit more respectful of pilots seeing as the previous old >man had run a sand bar leaving Perth on his last cruise. This was >something that my captain was not wanting repeat I am sure. This >coupled with the fact we had no steady home port (Alameda, Bremerton, >and Everett during my 3 years aboard) I'm sure added to this. >Finally, being the largest warship in the world made everything we did >in harbor just that much more difficult. > > S2000 > I wouldn't disregard him unless he's proved he's full of it, knows less than me or the port is just in all practical purposes a no brainer. Pilots can make some teams lazy, so they don't do there own home work. Then there are in some instances situations where the pilot is on the spot to provide information the crew couldn't get, but with that said... If a warship wants to get up and go, it's goin' ta get up and go. With or without a harbor pilot. For game purposes anyone with Navigation and Smallboat handling should have an easy time getting the Corpus in and outta port safely; Task;Good conditions, Easy; Bad Weather, Average, Severe conditions, Difficult. Anyone without these skills should never face less than an Impossible attribute check. Im real embarrassed it's not like me to go off like that. As to nautical and Navy stuff, if I don't know it to be a fact I can ask around here fairly easily. The horses mouth being the best source for this information. I went back into an old Janes and read it's description of some equipment, and if I were sittin in your chair I would easily get a false picture of it's characteristics. Case in point the ASROC Computer was a huge servo driven thing, and it's little brother is the puter the MK46 use today, no chips, LED's or nuthin'. There are Fire control computers for guns along the same lines, 5" not 3". Which is why I make the observation that one could probably get MK46's and 5" guns to function after EMP. Shore bombardment is still practiced manually. Maybe even BPMDS or Sea Sparrow can be restored cause of it's nature as a point and shoot. One adventure we made up had Bandits go to Colts Neck NJ and steal a load of 8" and 5" rounds and powders and take over the old CA's Newport and Salem, then hold Philadelphia hostage. Dwight loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com http://t2k.findhere.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:21:39 EST From: MarkChest@aol.com Subject: Mass Combat System??? Having got both the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was wondering is there a mass combat system out there like the one in The Ruins Of Warsaw (For the 1st edition). If possible could it also contain rules for Air Warfare (Helicopters, ground support etc.) Thanks for your help. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:40:50 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship Scott David Orr wrote: > There was a case in the Falklands of the Argentinians attacking a British > ship with anti-tank missiles (not from a tank, obviously)--as I recall they > drove the ship further out to sea (it was conducting shore bombardment) but > I don't think the damaged it. The Argie frigate took 2-3 66mm M72 SRAAW's and a similar number of 84mm SRAAW's. It was in danger of being sunk (it took several 84mm rounds near the waterline), and it lost the use of its (76mm???) Gun (it was repaired later). The Captain decided (wisely) to leave the Battalion of Argie Marines to take out the platoon of UK Marines. If the frigate had stuck around it was quite possible that it would have been sunk. Cheers Damian lets try this again, shall we! last time it returned this twilight2000-outgoing@netcofmg.com - no such user here. There is no user by that name at this server. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:20:25 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship At 01:40 PM 2/28/99 +1100, Damian Robinson wrote: >lets try this again, shall we! > >last time it returned this > >twilight2000-outgoing@netcofmg.com - no such user here. > >There is no user by that name at this server. Yes, that's been happening on all my posts, too, but it apparently doesn't mean that the posts aren't getting through--they come through despite this message. (For example, this is the second time I've gotten this particular post from you.) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:46:50 -0800 From: Snake Eyes Subject: 1st Edition Errata ? Does anybody out there have the most recent errata sheet for Twilight: 2000, 1st Edition? I have one small blue page dated 25 NOV 1984, but I know there was a more recent one that covered, among other things, ground surveillance and counter-battery radar. Any assistance in tracking down this doc would be greatly appreciated. If there were ever any errata sheets for v2.0 or 2.2, I'd be interested in those, too. Thanks, ~Snake Eyes [mailto:snake.eyes@worldnet.att.net] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:28:33 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, sdorr@ix.netcom.com produced: > At 01:40 PM 2/28/99 +1100, Damian Robinson wrote: > >twilight2000-outgoing@netcofmg.com - no such user here. > >There is no user by that name at this server. > Yes, that's been happening on all my posts, too, but it apparently doesn't > mean that the posts aren't getting through--they come through despite this > message. (For example, this is the second time I've gotten this particular > post from you.) Technically, you send a single post to the list's email address. This post is then resent to the entire list. You are still listed in the headers as 'From:' (and usually, the 'Reply-To:' has not been changed, either[1]), so Responses will reach you. Errors should be directed to the 'Sender:', which is in this case the mailing list's software. Some sites are (slightly?) misconfigured and do not understand that distinction[2] and use the 'From:' or 'Reply-To:' address. If it really bothers you, forward it to the listowners address , who then will take it off the list (as noone is getting these mails anyway). See RFC 822 for all the details. - -Wolfgang [1] but you cannot count on it ... so redirecting responses to the right address is not always easy. [2] which is the same as the local TV broadcasting station (Sender) and the reporter talking from probably overseas (From), who can be reached via his agent (Reply-To). So, if you have bad reception, cry to the Sender, not to From or Reply-To. - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:00:52 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: 1st Edition Errata ? There was also a errata sheet that came with the referee screen and a weapon update sheet that adjusted recoil on a few weapons. The errata sheet updated radio detonated explosives and explained the d20 system conventions. For 2.2 There was an errata sheet that explained the encounter cards and fixed one floorplan. Then explained and omissions on pages 87 rad shielding the Kvp-92 and Sk-25 Clarified vehicle hit location from page 216. Then explained using the 15 meter burst diagram with 2 meter squares for rounds with a burst of 3 from pages 258-259. Dwight loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com - -----Original Message----- From: Snake Eyes To: Twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 4:00 AM Subject: 1st Edition Errata ? > >Does anybody out there have the most recent errata sheet for Twilight: >2000, 1st Edition? I have one small blue page dated 25 NOV 1984, but I >know there was a more recent one that covered, among other things, ground >surveillance and counter-battery radar. Any assistance in tracking down >this doc would be greatly appreciated. > >If there were ever any errata sheets for v2.0 or 2.2, I'd be interested in >those, too. > >Thanks, > >~Snake Eyes > >[mailto:snake.eyes@worldnet.att.net] > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:20:09 EST From: MarkChest@aol.com Subject: Mass Combat System Having got the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was reading through the old scenario for 1st edition T2000 - The Ruins Of Warsaw, and this brought me to wonder. Has anyone out there got a mass combat system for v2.2 Twilight 2000, similar to the one in Ruins of Warsaw (or even a conversion of the Ruins Of Warsaw, although this means I'll have to remember where I put the book :-)) Thanks for your help. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:10:34 -0600 From: "Dave" Subject: T2K version 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE6324.1B630800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone know I could pick up a complete copy of version 1.0? I have = hunted the web and have come up empty. I have lost a few papers with my = original, and would like to just purchase a complete new set. Also, does anyone know what the copyright status is for creating = programs for T2K? Something like a character generator or encounter = generator that is based from the T2K manuals. Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE6324.1B630800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone know I could pick up a = complete copy of=20 version 1.0? I have hunted the web and have come up empty. I = have=20 lost a few papers with my original, and would like to just purchase a = complete=20 new set. Also, does anyone know what the = copyright status=20 is for creating programs for T2K? Something like a character = generator or=20 encounter generator that is based from the T2K manuals. Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE6324.1B630800-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:30:06 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Cook Subject: Re: GPS/EMP yeah, i realize now that it was batteries, not reactors that i was thinking of. been awhile since i've done much reading on spacecraft, i'm a little rusty. btw i'm actually canadian. - ---Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: > > Hi, Michael! > > Trying to kill the keyboard, burzmali@yahoo.com produced: > > > I am not sure of the exact date, though it was near the end of the > > cold war. However, the treaty is the primary reason we the US, or > > anyone else, have never sent a nuclear powered craft into space. I > > thought this would include satellites but I am not sure > > Since you, the US, did send space probes like Voyager, Pioneer > 10, the Viking landers, etc. etc. into space, and they all are > powered by radio batteries (generating electricity directly from > heat ... which comes from radio active decay), that claim surely > does not include satellites. > > I do not know whether the very few manned missions ever had > radio batteries, but I assume they did not, since the duration > is limited enough or close enough to the sun for solar panels. > > But any space probe designed for operating further out than > say the Mars *can* no longer use solar panels. And not > all satellites orbiting the earth *do* use solar panels. > Some had just batteries powering them for a few days, some > (spy satellites?) use radioactive materials ... which should be > ejected to a 'stable' orbit before the end of lifetime of the > satellite to prevent it crashing back to earth. > > -Wolfgang > > -- > PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". > Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. > How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: > http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:57:56 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Mass Combat System >Having got the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was reading through the >old scenario for 1st edition T2000 - The Ruins Of Warsaw, and this brought me >to wonder. Has anyone out there got a mass combat system for v2.2 Twilight >2000, similar to the one in Ruins of Warsaw (or even a conversion of the Ruins >Of Warsaw, although this means I'll have to remember where I put the book :-)) >Thanks for your help. Challenge 75 has 'Planetfall', which is skirmish level combat for Traveller: The New Era. As this was the GDW house system T2K v2.2 works fine with this. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but the introduction says you can use 10-20 characters per side, ground scale is 1:100, and one turn equals 10 seconds. 'Striker II', the miniatures rules for Traveller:The New Era are also suitable for T2K v2.2. Unit scale is 1:1, map scale 1:1000, and each turn is 5 minutes long. I thought one of the early T2K modules was reprinted for v2 or v2.2? 'Return to Warsaw', does this have a Mass Combat system? Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:07:19 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Mass Combat System >>Having got the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was reading through >the >>old scenario for 1st edition T2000 - The Ruins Of Warsaw, and this brought >me >>to wonder. Has anyone out there got a mass combat system for v2.2 Twilight >>2000, similar to the one in Ruins of Warsaw (or even a conversion of the >Ruins >>Of Warsaw, although this means I'll have to remember where I put the book >:-)) >>Thanks for your help. > > >Challenge 75 has 'Planetfall', which is skirmish level combat for Traveller: >The New Era. As this was the GDW house system T2K v2.2 works fine with this. >I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but the introduction says you can use >10-20 characters per side, ground scale is 1:100, and one turn equals 10 >seconds. > >'Striker II', the miniatures rules for Traveller:The New Era are also >suitable for T2K v2.2. Unit scale is 1:1, map scale 1:1000, and each turn is >5 minutes long. > >I thought one of the early T2K modules was reprinted for v2 or v2.2? 'Return >to Warsaw', does this have a Mass Combat system? > >Peter Ooops, 'Last Battle' uses the Team Yankee boardgame system to the t2K world also. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:15:52 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: 1st Edition Errata ? >There was also a errata sheet that came with the referee screen and a weapon >update sheet that adjusted recoil on a few weapons. >The errata sheet updated radio detonated explosives and explained the d20 >system conventions. > >For 2.2 There was an errata sheet that explained the encounter cards and >fixed one floorplan. Then explained and omissions on pages 87 rad >shielding the Kvp-92 and Sk-25 >Clarified vehicle hit location from page 216. >Then explained using the 15 meter burst diagram with 2 meter squares for >rounds with a burst of 3 from pages 258-259. >Dwight >loonz857@yahoo.com >http://bookmark.findhere.com Are these T2K v2.2 errata up at anyone's websites? The Kvp-25 and Sk-25 I was wasn't aware of, but the vehicle hit location and burst diagrams still have me scratching my head. Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:34:04 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: T2K version 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE6338.276B1480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Consult your attorney, I THINK, as long as you don't sell them you can, = ppl been doin it for along time with other games. Loonz loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com http://t2k.findhere.com -----Original Message----- From: Dave To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 3:12 PM Subject: T2K version 1 =20 =20 Anyone know I could pick up a complete copy of version 1.0? I have = hunted the web and have come up empty. I have lost a few papers with my = original, and would like to just purchase a complete new set. =20 Also, does anyone know what the copyright status is for creating = programs for T2K? Something like a character generator or encounter = generator that is based from the T2K manuals. =20 Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE6338.276B1480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Consult your attorney, I THINK, as = long as you=20 don't sell them you can, ppl been doin it for along time with other=20 games. Loonz loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com http://t2k.findhere.com = -----Original = Message----- From:=20 Dave To:=20 twilight2000@mpgn.com Date:=20 Sunday, February 28, 1999 3:12 PM Subject: T2K version = 1 Anyone know I could pick up a = complete copy=20 of version 1.0? I have hunted the web and have come up = empty. I=20 have lost a few papers with my original, and would like to just = purchase a=20 complete new set. Also, does anyone know what the = copyright=20 status is for creating programs for T2K? Something like a = character=20 generator or encounter generator that is based from the T2K=20 manuals. Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE6338.276B1480-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:27:05 EST From: Papakee@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K version 1 In a message dated 99-02-28 15:27:50 EST, you write: << davidh@intellisys.net >> I have an extra copy of version 1 for 10.00 that I think is complete. If you are interested I'll check it out more. - -Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:11:18 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K version 1 >Anyone know I could pick up a complete copy of version 1.0? I have hunted the web and have come up empty. I have lost a few papers with my original, and would like to just purchase a complete new set. > >Also, does anyone know what the copyright status is for creating programs for T2K? Something like a character generator or encounter generator that is based from the T2K manuals. > Tantalus, which owns the rights to TW2000 (all the editions) has been extremely unfriendly about proposals for licensing player-made freeware (in contrast with, say, Steve Jackson Games). They've implied at least once on this list that unless they're money for them involved, they have no interest. That being said, they, like most game companies, seem to have a rather "optimistic" idea about what copyrights cover insofar as "derivative works" are concerned. But while their legal arguments would probably be on shaky ground, they might try the time-honored tactic of suing in the expectation that you won't have the money to take the case to its conclusion (and that the judge, if it gets that far, won't have a good enough understanding of this area of the law to throw the case out at the start). BTW, you might want to use a different mailer or turn off whatever text enhancement features you're using--it makes it really hard for some mailers to quote messages from you, and I'm willing to bet some people can't even read your messages at all. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:14:49 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Mass Combat System At 08:07 AM 3/1/99 +1100, Peter wrote: > >Ooops, 'Last Battle' uses the Team Yankee boardgame system to the t2K world >also. > I don't think it does, no. It was marketed as being part of the _First_Battle_" series (which included _Team_Yankee_), but the rules seem to me to be very different and for a lower/more detailed level of scale (I've got games with both versions of the _First_Battle_ rules, _Battlefieldd:__Europe_ and _Sands_of_War_ [the latter considerably better IMHO], as well as _Last_Battle_, but I haven't looked at _Last_Battle_ very closely). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:38:24 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K version 1 At 04:34 PM 2/28/99 -0500, loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: > Consult your attorney, I THINK, as long as you don't sell them you >can, ppl been doin it for along time with other games. Loonz You can't make complete copies of copyrighted stuff without permission. Period. (There are some limited exceptions for videotapes of TV programs and such.) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:13:47 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: T2K version 1 I dont think thats what the original guy suggested, but if it was you are correct ya can't. - -----Original Message----- From: Scott David Orr To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 6:38 PM Subject: Re: T2K version 1 >At 04:34 PM 2/28/99 -0500, loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: >> Consult your attorney, I THINK, as long as you don't sell them you >>can, ppl been doin it for along time with other games. Loonz > >You can't make complete copies of copyrighted stuff without permission. >Period. (There are some limited exceptions for videotapes of TV programs >and such.) > >Scott Orr >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:30:32 EST From: Grimace997@aol.com Subject: Re: Mass Combat System In a message dated 99-02-28 18:27:49 EST, you write: << > I don't think it does, no. It was marketed as being part of the _First_Battle_" series (which included _Team_Yankee_), but the rules seem to me to be very different and for a lower/more detailed level of scale (I've got games with both versions of the _First_Battle_ rules, _Battlefieldd:__Europe_ and _Sands_of_War_ [the latter considerably better IMHO], as well as _Last_Battle_, but I haven't looked at _Last_Battle_ very closely). Scott Orr >> I've played the Last Battle, and while it might be acceptable to some for massed combat, I thought the entire thing to be rather lacking. The weapons were rather generalized, so much as to not have much flavor between assault rifles, and the nationalities were basically non-existant. You could have different levels of experience, but again, I thought it lacking. I haven't played it in years after giving it more than a couple times to prove itself as entertaining. ("What do you mean, 'this is no fun'? It HAS to be, it's based on Twilight 2000!") *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #21 ************************************ To subscribe to Twilight2000-Digest, send the command: subscribe twilight2000-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@MPGN.COM". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-twlight2000": subscribe twlight2000-digest local-twilight2000@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "twilight2000-digest" in the commands above with "twilight2000".twilight2000-digest Sunday, February 28 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 021 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: GPS/EMP Re: Tank vs. Ship Re: GPS/EMP -> nuclear reactors in space Re: Fw: Navigation. Re: GPS/EMP Re: Fw: Navigation. Mass Combat System??? Re: Tank vs. Ship Re: Tank vs. Ship 1st Edition Errata ? Re: Tank vs. Ship Re: 1st Edition Errata ? Mass Combat System T2K version 1 Re: GPS/EMP Re: Mass Combat System Re: Mass Combat System Re: 1st Edition Errata ? Re: T2K version 1 Re: T2K version 1 Re: T2K version 1 Re: Mass Combat System Re: T2K version 1 Re: T2K version 1 Re: Mass Combat System ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 17:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Curran Subject: Re: GPS/EMP - ---Scott David Orr wrote: > > At 09:00 AM 2/26/99 -0800, Michael Curran wrote: > > > >I'm not sure, but I believe there is a ban on putting any nuclear that > >in bigger and more powerful than a battery in space. Weapons are the > >main reason, but they also don't want a large nuclear reaction falling > >out of the sky some day. > > > I don't recall ever hearing about any such treaty, but I haven't heard of > everything. Do you have any idea what treaty it was or when it was signed? > I am not sure of the exact date, though it was near the end of the cold war. However, the treaty is the primary reason we the US, or anyone else, have never sent a nuclear powered craft into space. I thought this would include satellites but I am not sure - -MC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:59:59 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship Scott David Orr wrote: > There was a case in the Falklands of the Argentinians attacking a British > ship with anti-tank missiles (not from a tank, obviously)--as I recall they > drove the ship further out to sea (it was conducting shore bombardment) but > I don't think the damaged it. The Argie frigate took 2-3 66mm M72 SRAAW's and a similar number of 84mm SRAAW's. It was in danger of being sunk (it took several 84mm rounds near the waterline), and it lost the use of its (76mm???) Gun (it was repaired later). The Captain decided (wisely) to leave the Battalion of Argie Marines to take out the platoon of UK Marines. If the frigate had stuck around it was quite possible that it would have been sunk. Cheers Damian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 00:09:32 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: GPS/EMP -> nuclear reactors in space Josh Baumgartner wrote: > > I'm a personal fan of Dunnigan, I particularly like his 'Quick and > Dirty Guide to War' books for a good rundown of the world's conflicts > and players involved. > S2000 Same here, the wargame like approach to it is interesting, don't think i've ever seen percent chance outcomes for conflicts in books :) - -- ([-[Peter Vieth]-) (-[fitek@ix.netcom.com]-) (-[http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek]-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 02:05:42 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. Dwight, thank you for being civil. It was my understanding, from the folks in Deck Dept. on the ship I was serving aboard, that a pilot's advice was not to be taken lightly. I know that pilots certainly do not steer the ships, nor directly give the orders, but that they did have a certain amount of knowledge/expertise that went beyond what could be found amongst the navigation charts and notices. Perhaps my captain was bit more respectful of pilots seeing as the previous old man had run a sand bar leaving Perth on his last cruise. This was something that my captain was not wanting repeat I am sure. This coupled with the fact we had no steady home port (Alameda, Bremerton, and Everett during my 3 years aboard) I'm sure added to this. Finally, being the largest warship in the world made everything we did in harbor just that much more difficult. S2000 - ---loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Josh Baumgartner > To: twilight2000@mpgn.com > Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 3:43 AM > Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. > > > > > >---loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: > >> > >> > >> >Agreed...simply put: Captains trust pilots. Period. I'm not saying > >> >that some captains don't have a bit of an ego problem about it, but > >> >frankly, the dangers of entering a harbor with a larger ship are so > >> >high, and intense local knowledge of the lanes is so critical that > >> >there really isn't any choice but to trust a pilot. Even in the > >> >harbor where a ship homeports the captain still uses a pilot. Pilots > >> >are the only ones who day-to-day navigate the harbor, so are the only > >> >ones with the experience to do so safely. > >> > > >> That is inaccurate. > >> > > > >Please elaborate... > > > I don't have anything further to add. Pilots do not drive ships, and are > not the soul possesor of navigational data for any port. Any warship of a > developed countrie can and does enter port without the advice of a harbor > pilot. > It's a fact. To suppose otherwise is grossly inaccurate. > > My last post sounded pompous and I apologise. It was late and I was annoyed > and should have shown restraint. > > I truely enjoy giving tours and explaining the buisiness of the Navy, but am > unaccustomed to being disregarded out of hand it threw me. Again Sorry. > > Anyone coming to Hampton Roads can drop a line and I'll make sure your > hooked up with a first class tour. Even you Scott. > > Dwight > loonz857@yahoo.com > http://bookmark.findhere.com > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 11:39:29 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: GPS/EMP Hi, Michael! Trying to kill the keyboard, burzmali@yahoo.com produced: > I am not sure of the exact date, though it was near the end of the > cold war. However, the treaty is the primary reason we the US, or > anyone else, have never sent a nuclear powered craft into space. I > thought this would include satellites but I am not sure Since you, the US, did send space probes like Voyager, Pioneer 10, the Viking landers, etc. etc. into space, and they all are powered by radio batteries (generating electricity directly from heat ... which comes from radio active decay), that claim surely does not include satellites. I do not know whether the very few manned missions ever had radio batteries, but I assume they did not, since the duration is limited enough or close enough to the sun for solar panels. But any space probe designed for operating further out than say the Mars *can* no longer use solar panels. And not all satellites orbiting the earth *do* use solar panels. Some had just batteries powering them for a few days, some (spy satellites?) use radioactive materials ... which should be ejected to a 'stable' orbit before the end of lifetime of the satellite to prevent it crashing back to earth. - -Wolfgang - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 10:59:06 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. - -----Original Message----- From: Josh Baumgartner To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 1999 5:07 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Navigation. >Dwight, thank you for being civil. It was my understanding, from the >folks in Deck Dept. on the ship I was serving aboard, that a pilot's >advice was not to be taken lightly. I know that pilots certainly do >not steer the ships, nor directly give the orders, but that they did >have a certain amount of knowledge/expertise that went beyond what >could be found amongst the navigation charts and notices. Perhaps my >captain was bit more respectful of pilots seeing as the previous old >man had run a sand bar leaving Perth on his last cruise. This was >something that my captain was not wanting repeat I am sure. This >coupled with the fact we had no steady home port (Alameda, Bremerton, >and Everett during my 3 years aboard) I'm sure added to this. >Finally, being the largest warship in the world made everything we did >in harbor just that much more difficult. > > S2000 > I wouldn't disregard him unless he's proved he's full of it, knows less than me or the port is just in all practical purposes a no brainer. Pilots can make some teams lazy, so they don't do there own home work. Then there are in some instances situations where the pilot is on the spot to provide information the crew couldn't get, but with that said... If a warship wants to get up and go, it's goin' ta get up and go. With or without a harbor pilot. For game purposes anyone with Navigation and Smallboat handling should have an easy time getting the Corpus in and outta port safely; Task;Good conditions, Easy; Bad Weather, Average, Severe conditions, Difficult. Anyone without these skills should never face less than an Impossible attribute check. Im real embarrassed it's not like me to go off like that. As to nautical and Navy stuff, if I don't know it to be a fact I can ask around here fairly easily. The horses mouth being the best source for this information. I went back into an old Janes and read it's description of some equipment, and if I were sittin in your chair I would easily get a false picture of it's characteristics. Case in point the ASROC Computer was a huge servo driven thing, and it's little brother is the puter the MK46 use today, no chips, LED's or nuthin'. There are Fire control computers for guns along the same lines, 5" not 3". Which is why I make the observation that one could probably get MK46's and 5" guns to function after EMP. Shore bombardment is still practiced manually. Maybe even BPMDS or Sea Sparrow can be restored cause of it's nature as a point and shoot. One adventure we made up had Bandits go to Colts Neck NJ and steal a load of 8" and 5" rounds and powders and take over the old CA's Newport and Salem, then hold Philadelphia hostage. Dwight loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com http://t2k.findhere.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 13:21:39 EST From: MarkChest@aol.com Subject: Mass Combat System??? Having got both the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was wondering is there a mass combat system out there like the one in The Ruins Of Warsaw (For the 1st edition). If possible could it also contain rules for Air Warfare (Helicopters, ground support etc.) Thanks for your help. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:40:50 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship Scott David Orr wrote: > There was a case in the Falklands of the Argentinians attacking a British > ship with anti-tank missiles (not from a tank, obviously)--as I recall they > drove the ship further out to sea (it was conducting shore bombardment) but > I don't think the damaged it. The Argie frigate took 2-3 66mm M72 SRAAW's and a similar number of 84mm SRAAW's. It was in danger of being sunk (it took several 84mm rounds near the waterline), and it lost the use of its (76mm???) Gun (it was repaired later). The Captain decided (wisely) to leave the Battalion of Argie Marines to take out the platoon of UK Marines. If the frigate had stuck around it was quite possible that it would have been sunk. Cheers Damian lets try this again, shall we! last time it returned this twilight2000-outgoing@netcofmg.com - no such user here. There is no user by that name at this server. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 00:20:25 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship At 01:40 PM 2/28/99 +1100, Damian Robinson wrote: >lets try this again, shall we! > >last time it returned this > >twilight2000-outgoing@netcofmg.com - no such user here. > >There is no user by that name at this server. Yes, that's been happening on all my posts, too, but it apparently doesn't mean that the posts aren't getting through--they come through despite this message. (For example, this is the second time I've gotten this particular post from you.) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:46:50 -0800 From: Snake Eyes Subject: 1st Edition Errata ? Does anybody out there have the most recent errata sheet for Twilight: 2000, 1st Edition? I have one small blue page dated 25 NOV 1984, but I know there was a more recent one that covered, among other things, ground surveillance and counter-battery radar. Any assistance in tracking down this doc would be greatly appreciated. If there were ever any errata sheets for v2.0 or 2.2, I'd be interested in those, too. Thanks, ~Snake Eyes [mailto:snake.eyes@worldnet.att.net] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:28:33 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Tank vs. Ship Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, sdorr@ix.netcom.com produced: > At 01:40 PM 2/28/99 +1100, Damian Robinson wrote: > >twilight2000-outgoing@netcofmg.com - no such user here. > >There is no user by that name at this server. > Yes, that's been happening on all my posts, too, but it apparently doesn't > mean that the posts aren't getting through--they come through despite this > message. (For example, this is the second time I've gotten this particular > post from you.) Technically, you send a single post to the list's email address. This post is then resent to the entire list. You are still listed in the headers as 'From:' (and usually, the 'Reply-To:' has not been changed, either[1]), so Responses will reach you. Errors should be directed to the 'Sender:', which is in this case the mailing list's software. Some sites are (slightly?) misconfigured and do not understand that distinction[2] and use the 'From:' or 'Reply-To:' address. If it really bothers you, forward it to the listowners address , who then will take it off the list (as noone is getting these mails anyway). See RFC 822 for all the details. - -Wolfgang [1] but you cannot count on it ... so redirecting responses to the right address is not always easy. [2] which is the same as the local TV broadcasting station (Sender) and the reporter talking from probably overseas (From), who can be reached via his agent (Reply-To). So, if you have bad reception, cry to the Sender, not to From or Reply-To. - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:00:52 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: 1st Edition Errata ? There was also a errata sheet that came with the referee screen and a weapon update sheet that adjusted recoil on a few weapons. The errata sheet updated radio detonated explosives and explained the d20 system conventions. For 2.2 There was an errata sheet that explained the encounter cards and fixed one floorplan. Then explained and omissions on pages 87 rad shielding the Kvp-92 and Sk-25 Clarified vehicle hit location from page 216. Then explained using the 15 meter burst diagram with 2 meter squares for rounds with a burst of 3 from pages 258-259. Dwight loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com - -----Original Message----- From: Snake Eyes To: Twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 4:00 AM Subject: 1st Edition Errata ? > >Does anybody out there have the most recent errata sheet for Twilight: >2000, 1st Edition? I have one small blue page dated 25 NOV 1984, but I >know there was a more recent one that covered, among other things, ground >surveillance and counter-battery radar. Any assistance in tracking down >this doc would be greatly appreciated. > >If there were ever any errata sheets for v2.0 or 2.2, I'd be interested in >those, too. > >Thanks, > >~Snake Eyes > >[mailto:snake.eyes@worldnet.att.net] > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:20:09 EST From: MarkChest@aol.com Subject: Mass Combat System Having got the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was reading through the old scenario for 1st edition T2000 - The Ruins Of Warsaw, and this brought me to wonder. Has anyone out there got a mass combat system for v2.2 Twilight 2000, similar to the one in Ruins of Warsaw (or even a conversion of the Ruins Of Warsaw, although this means I'll have to remember where I put the book :-)) Thanks for your help. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 14:10:34 -0600 From: "Dave" Subject: T2K version 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE6324.1B630800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone know I could pick up a complete copy of version 1.0? I have = hunted the web and have come up empty. I have lost a few papers with my = original, and would like to just purchase a complete new set. Also, does anyone know what the copyright status is for creating = programs for T2K? Something like a character generator or encounter = generator that is based from the T2K manuals. Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE6324.1B630800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone know I could pick up a = complete copy of=20 version 1.0? I have hunted the web and have come up empty. I = have=20 lost a few papers with my original, and would like to just purchase a = complete=20 new set. Also, does anyone know what the = copyright status=20 is for creating programs for T2K? Something like a character = generator or=20 encounter generator that is based from the T2K manuals. Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE6324.1B630800-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 12:30:06 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Cook Subject: Re: GPS/EMP yeah, i realize now that it was batteries, not reactors that i was thinking of. been awhile since i've done much reading on spacecraft, i'm a little rusty. btw i'm actually canadian. - ---Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: > > Hi, Michael! > > Trying to kill the keyboard, burzmali@yahoo.com produced: > > > I am not sure of the exact date, though it was near the end of the > > cold war. However, the treaty is the primary reason we the US, or > > anyone else, have never sent a nuclear powered craft into space. I > > thought this would include satellites but I am not sure > > Since you, the US, did send space probes like Voyager, Pioneer > 10, the Viking landers, etc. etc. into space, and they all are > powered by radio batteries (generating electricity directly from > heat ... which comes from radio active decay), that claim surely > does not include satellites. > > I do not know whether the very few manned missions ever had > radio batteries, but I assume they did not, since the duration > is limited enough or close enough to the sun for solar panels. > > But any space probe designed for operating further out than > say the Mars *can* no longer use solar panels. And not > all satellites orbiting the earth *do* use solar panels. > Some had just batteries powering them for a few days, some > (spy satellites?) use radioactive materials ... which should be > ejected to a 'stable' orbit before the end of lifetime of the > satellite to prevent it crashing back to earth. > > -Wolfgang > > -- > PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". > Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. > How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: > http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:57:56 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Mass Combat System >Having got the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was reading through the >old scenario for 1st edition T2000 - The Ruins Of Warsaw, and this brought me >to wonder. Has anyone out there got a mass combat system for v2.2 Twilight >2000, similar to the one in Ruins of Warsaw (or even a conversion of the Ruins >Of Warsaw, although this means I'll have to remember where I put the book :-)) >Thanks for your help. Challenge 75 has 'Planetfall', which is skirmish level combat for Traveller: The New Era. As this was the GDW house system T2K v2.2 works fine with this. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but the introduction says you can use 10-20 characters per side, ground scale is 1:100, and one turn equals 10 seconds. 'Striker II', the miniatures rules for Traveller:The New Era are also suitable for T2K v2.2. Unit scale is 1:1, map scale 1:1000, and each turn is 5 minutes long. I thought one of the early T2K modules was reprinted for v2 or v2.2? 'Return to Warsaw', does this have a Mass Combat system? Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:07:19 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: Mass Combat System >>Having got the 1st edition and v2.2 Twilight 2000, I was reading through >the >>old scenario for 1st edition T2000 - The Ruins Of Warsaw, and this brought >me >>to wonder. Has anyone out there got a mass combat system for v2.2 Twilight >>2000, similar to the one in Ruins of Warsaw (or even a conversion of the >Ruins >>Of Warsaw, although this means I'll have to remember where I put the book >:-)) >>Thanks for your help. > > >Challenge 75 has 'Planetfall', which is skirmish level combat for Traveller: >The New Era. As this was the GDW house system T2K v2.2 works fine with this. >I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but the introduction says you can use >10-20 characters per side, ground scale is 1:100, and one turn equals 10 >seconds. > >'Striker II', the miniatures rules for Traveller:The New Era are also >suitable for T2K v2.2. Unit scale is 1:1, map scale 1:1000, and each turn is >5 minutes long. > >I thought one of the early T2K modules was reprinted for v2 or v2.2? 'Return >to Warsaw', does this have a Mass Combat system? > >Peter Ooops, 'Last Battle' uses the Team Yankee boardgame system to the t2K world also. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:15:52 +1100 From: "Peter" Subject: Re: 1st Edition Errata ? >There was also a errata sheet that came with the referee screen and a weapon >update sheet that adjusted recoil on a few weapons. >The errata sheet updated radio detonated explosives and explained the d20 >system conventions. > >For 2.2 There was an errata sheet that explained the encounter cards and >fixed one floorplan. Then explained and omissions on pages 87 rad >shielding the Kvp-92 and Sk-25 >Clarified vehicle hit location from page 216. >Then explained using the 15 meter burst diagram with 2 meter squares for >rounds with a burst of 3 from pages 258-259. >Dwight >loonz857@yahoo.com >http://bookmark.findhere.com Are these T2K v2.2 errata up at anyone's websites? The Kvp-25 and Sk-25 I was wasn't aware of, but the vehicle hit location and burst diagrams still have me scratching my head. Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 16:34:04 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: T2K version 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE6338.276B1480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Consult your attorney, I THINK, as long as you don't sell them you can, = ppl been doin it for along time with other games. Loonz loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com http://t2k.findhere.com -----Original Message----- From: Dave To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 3:12 PM Subject: T2K version 1 =20 =20 Anyone know I could pick up a complete copy of version 1.0? I have = hunted the web and have come up empty. I have lost a few papers with my = original, and would like to just purchase a complete new set. =20 Also, does anyone know what the copyright status is for creating = programs for T2K? Something like a character generator or encounter = generator that is based from the T2K manuals. =20 Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE6338.276B1480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Consult your attorney, I THINK, as = long as you=20 don't sell them you can, ppl been doin it for along time with other=20 games. Loonz loonz857@yahoo.com http://bookmark.findhere.com http://t2k.findhere.com = -----Original = Message----- From:=20 Dave To:=20 twilight2000@mpgn.com Date:=20 Sunday, February 28, 1999 3:12 PM Subject: T2K version = 1 Anyone know I could pick up a = complete copy=20 of version 1.0? I have hunted the web and have come up = empty. I=20 have lost a few papers with my original, and would like to just = purchase a=20 complete new set. Also, does anyone know what the = copyright=20 status is for creating programs for T2K? Something like a = character=20 generator or encounter generator that is based from the T2K=20 manuals. Cheers Dave - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE6338.276B1480-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 17:27:05 EST From: Papakee@aol.com Subject: Re: T2K version 1 In a message dated 99-02-28 15:27:50 EST, you write: << davidh@intellisys.net >> I have an extra copy of version 1 for 10.00 that I think is complete. If you are interested I'll check it out more. - -Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:11:18 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K version 1 >Anyone know I could pick up a complete copy of version 1.0? I have hunted the web and have come up empty. I have lost a few papers with my original, and would like to just purchase a complete new set. > >Also, does anyone know what the copyright status is for creating programs for T2K? Something like a character generator or encounter generator that is based from the T2K manuals. > Tantalus, which owns the rights to TW2000 (all the editions) has been extremely unfriendly about proposals for licensing player-made freeware (in contrast with, say, Steve Jackson Games). They've implied at least once on this list that unless they're money for them involved, they have no interest. That being said, they, like most game companies, seem to have a rather "optimistic" idea about what copyrights cover insofar as "derivative works" are concerned. But while their legal arguments would probably be on shaky ground, they might try the time-honored tactic of suing in the expectation that you won't have the money to take the case to its conclusion (and that the judge, if it gets that far, won't have a good enough understanding of this area of the law to throw the case out at the start). BTW, you might want to use a different mailer or turn off whatever text enhancement features you're using--it makes it really hard for some mailers to quote messages from you, and I'm willing to bet some people can't even read your messages at all. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:14:49 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Mass Combat System At 08:07 AM 3/1/99 +1100, Peter wrote: > >Ooops, 'Last Battle' uses the Team Yankee boardgame system to the t2K world >also. > I don't think it does, no. It was marketed as being part of the _First_Battle_" series (which included _Team_Yankee_), but the rules seem to me to be very different and for a lower/more detailed level of scale (I've got games with both versions of the _First_Battle_ rules, _Battlefieldd:__Europe_ and _Sands_of_War_ [the latter considerably better IMHO], as well as _Last_Battle_, but I haven't looked at _Last_Battle_ very closely). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 18:38:24 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: T2K version 1 At 04:34 PM 2/28/99 -0500, loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: > Consult your attorney, I THINK, as long as you don't sell them you >can, ppl been doin it for along time with other games. Loonz You can't make complete copies of copyrighted stuff without permission. Period. (There are some limited exceptions for videotapes of TV programs and such.) Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:13:47 -0500 From: loonz857@mindspring.com Subject: Re: T2K version 1 I dont think thats what the original guy suggested, but if it was you are correct ya can't. - -----Original Message----- From: Scott David Orr To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 1999 6:38 PM Subject: Re: T2K version 1 >At 04:34 PM 2/28/99 -0500, loonz857@mindspring.com wrote: >> Consult your attorney, I THINK, as long as you don't sell them you >>can, ppl been doin it for along time with other games. Loonz > >You can't make complete copies of copyrighted stuff without permission. >Period. (There are some limited exceptions for videotapes of TV programs >and such.) > >Scott Orr >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 19:30:32 EST From: Grimace997@aol.com Subject: Re: Mass Combat System In a message dated 99-02-28 18:27:49 EST, you write: << > I don't think it does, no. It was marketed as being part of the _First_Battle_" series (which included _Team_Yankee_), but the rules seem to me to be very different and for a lower/more detailed level of scale (I've got games with both versions of the _First_Battle_ rules, _Battlefieldd:__Europe_ and _Sands_of_War_ [the latter considerably better IMHO], as well as _Last_Battle_, but I haven't looked at _Last_Battle_ very closely). Scott Orr >> I've played the Last Battle, and while it might be acceptable to some for massed combat, I thought the entire thing to be rather lacking. The weapons were rather generalized, so much as to not have much flavor between assault rifles, and the nationalities were basically non-existant. You could have different levels of experience, but again, I thought it lacking. I haven't played it in years after giving it more than a couple times to prove itself as entertaining. ("What do you mean, 'this is no fun'? It HAS to be, it's based on Twilight 2000!") *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #21 ************************************