twilight2000-digest Friday, February 12 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 012 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Y2K in T2K Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange Re: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange Re: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange RE: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange Re: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange Millenium Bug & Missiles Speaking of Russian Nukes... Merc:2000 Angola Re: Y2K in T2K Millenium in T2K, Israel and limited Nuclear War Re: Millenium in T2K, Israel and limited Nuclear War Need some help Re: Need some help Re: Need some help Re: Need some help Re: Y2K in T2K Re: Millenium in T2K, Israel and limited Nuclear War Re: Millenium Bug & Missiles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:58:24 PST From: "Chas York" Subject: Re: Y2K in T2K >At 05:09 PM 2/10/99 +0000, Eddie Hallahan wrote: >>I heard an interesting statistic for Britain, I'm not sure how well it >>applies to the rest of the world though. >> >>Basically, one of my mates works at a bank and they had just finished a >>study that says if everyone in britain took out an extra 30 pounds before >>the new year 'just in case' the economy would collapse. It's a scarily >>small amount and it is this low due to the amount of transactions that are >>done electronically. There is simply a lot less hard currency floating >>about britain than there used to be. >> >Printing up more bills for this occasion is pretty easy though; and I'm >sure someone will have though of it--er, actually, I guess you've just >proved someone has. :) > >Scott Orr At the same time, the US treasury's printing "so many million" extra $20 bills for the occasion, but it still averages to less than one $20 per person. It all depends on the fear factor: Get a consultant near November advocating on CNN that everyone should have a few days extra food, a few more $20's, and a percentage of their stocks moved out into precious metals or something and watch the impact. (BTW- CNN's already aired consultants saying just this on separate occasions...) Look at the post office's unfortunate "run" on 1c stamps recently... Now imagine the response to a local news report that some bank somewhere closed doors when it didn't have the hard currency available.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:10:27 -0000 From: "Mark Oliver" Subject: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange Millenium I think Scott about wrapped that one up, there is,was and never will be a year 0. The calender was a man made creation and the people who created it specified that centuries start in the year xxx1 not xxx0. I apologies for mentioning it :) Limited Nuclear Exchanges This has been one part of the T2K v1 background that I did have some thoughts about. I think a real 'limited' exchange is almost feasible. The background as I understood it was that each side started off using small weapons and then the other would respond with a slightly bigger weapon and gradually it would escalate. Both sides would be careful not to launch an all out attack and the exchange would be slow and prolonged. For example if could start with the use of nuclear depth charges by NATO to protect a carrier, War.Pact forces may retaliate by using a small tactical warhead against a particular military unit. NATO might then escalte it to using a cruise missle to remove a military HQ. Slowly the exchange would creep up. Both sides would be careful so as not to threaten the other side with total annihalation or decapation of it's command structure for fear of initiating an all out nuclear war. The scene that the background paints at the time when this exchange starts is that the military is firmly in control of the war (as oppossed to Governments). Thus the removal of the civilian command structure during the exchanges would not lead to the military command structure feeling 'too' threatend. Both sides would be well aware of what could happen in an all out exchange would be very wary not to initiate it and to not force the other side into intiating it. An all out exchange is a no win situation and to the military this may be better than loosing. As long as the war (and the nuclear exchange) continues in a fashion so that both sides still feel they can 'win' (at least untill there are not enough nukes left) then an all out exchange could be avoided. To be honest I think something has to happen to the nukes. They can't still be there and they couldn't off all gone off at once (no one would be left!) so accepting a limited and growing nuclear exchange allows for their disposal without the world completely falling apart. That aspect of the 'official' timeline is one I'm going to stick with. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:37:55 +0000 From: Eddie Hallahan Subject: Re: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange At 12:10 11/02/99 +0000, you wrote: >Millenium > >I think Scott about wrapped that one up, there is,was and never will be a >year 0. The calender was a man made creation and the people who created it >specified that centuries start in the year xxx1 not xxx0. I think you're wrong but can't be hassled arguing about it, calendars were created to make life easier and the people who use them decree that centuries start on the year xxx0 not xxx1. However we should just agree to disagree, and bear in mind a point Mark made in a private email. This being that for safety's sake, you should really celebrate the millenium on both dates, just to 'cover all the bases' as the colonials say. The stuff about a limited nuclear exchange I'm not sure about. Now, I'm not at all up to date with the military thinking about the situation so I ain't going to comment on that. No, the bit that didn't ring true for me was that the military would be in 'control' of the situation. This is mainly cause I think that to be honest, military action, for the larger nations/states/whatever anyway, is largely governed by the media and/or the opinions of their peers. I feel that the scenario envisaged simply would not happen, we've seen how unappreciative the 'good 'ole Joe Public' are of a drawn out military action, regardless of how tactically or strategically sound said action is, and as such I think that a gradually escalating 'war of attrition' with regard to nukes wouldn't happen. Thats my groats worth anyway. EddieH >I apologies for mentioning it :) mine too *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:18:00 -0000 From: "Mark Oliver" Subject: Re: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange Millenium <<< However we should just agree to disagree, and bear in mind a point Mark made in a private email. This being that for safety's sake, you should really celebrate the millenium on both dates, just to 'cover all the bases' as the colonials say. >>> Rest assured this year I will be 'forced' into celebrating with everybody else and next year I'll have a big do as well. Isn't life hard :) Thinking about this for a minute a thought occurred to me. Accept for a minute that according to the 'rules' as defined primarily by the Church the end of the year 2000 really is the Millenium. That means that in the T2k v1 time line the Millenium will be coming at the end of the year. At the turn of the year 2000 nothing drastic religious wise happend, that should turn even more eyes towards the real turn of the Millenium. Could we see some kind of big religious movement taking a hold in Europe (Catholic basis?) as the game heads into the Millenium. Given the state of most peoples lives at this time this could give them some kind of hope and objective. Any ideas on what shape such a religious movement would take? Would this be the preperation for armageddon of the second coming of Christ? Limited Nuclear Exchange <<< No, the bit that didn't ring true for me was that the military would be in 'control' of the situation. >>> That thought was spurred by a comment in the timeline that the civillian goverments were destroyed in the nuclear exchange almost unnoticed and unintenionally. I took this to be possible because the civillian governments would be based in the towns which would have been hit in the exchange. For their loss to be almost unnoticed and for this loss to have had no effect on the exchange lead me to think that the military must have been firmly running the show at that stage in time. Nuclear Warheads I admit there are problems with the 'limited exchange' theory but as I've said before in the T2k world I can't imagine that much damage being done without a large (in total) exchange taking place at some point and I don't like the idea of their still being a lot of nukes hanging around. Anyone ever used a timeline where the limited exchange didn't happen or there was a single, more destructive, exchange? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:36:09 -0500 From: "Erwos" Subject: RE: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange > Millenium > <<< However we should just agree to disagree, and bear in mind a > point Mark > made in a private email. This being that for safety's sake, you should > really celebrate the millenium on both dates, just to 'cover all > the bases' > as the colonials say. >>> > > Rest assured this year I will be 'forced' into celebrating with everybody > else and next year I'll have a big do as well. Isn't life hard :) > > Thinking about this for a minute a thought occurred to me. Accept for a > minute that according to the 'rules' as defined primarily by the > Church the > end of the year 2000 really is the Millenium. That means that in > the T2k v1 > time line the Millenium will be coming at the end of the year. > At the turn > of the year 2000 nothing drastic religious wise happend, that should turn > even more eyes towards the real turn of the Millenium. Could we see some > kind of big religious movement taking a hold in Europe (Catholic > basis?) as > the game heads into the Millenium. Given the state of most > peoples lives at > this time this could give them some kind of hope and objective. It would make a very good adventure plotline... Survivalists with a religious tint. Maybe have some holy crusades? Also, that would mean Israel would be one of the most stable places in the world, perhaps even more than Switzerland. You wouldn't have masses of crazies running around about the second coming, 'cause, well, most of the population is comprised of Jews, who don't care about that (hell, most of them are secular, and don't care about religion at all). And I'm sure Shin Bet (the FBI of Israel, I believe) would have no problems making any of the crazies who do make it "disappear". > > Limited Nuclear Exchange > <<< No, the bit that didn't ring true for me was that the > military would be > in 'control' of the situation. >>> > > That thought was spurred by a comment in the timeline that the civillian > goverments were destroyed in the nuclear exchange almost unnoticed and > unintenionally. I took this to be possible because the civillian > governments would be based in the towns which would have been hit in the > exchange. For their loss to be almost unnoticed and for this loss to have > had no effect on the exchange lead me to think that the military must have > been firmly running the show at that stage in time. I wonder how much the military would be running the show, too. Personally, I doubt it would be more than in WWI or WWII, _unless_ the SecDef takes command as president (because everyone else is dead), in which case I could imagine him/her being a figurehead (I'd be more than a little shell-shocked myself), and willing to take some "advice" a little more than he should. Also, how do you "unintentionally" take out national capitals? Russia: "Oops, we nuked DC." USA: "My finger slipped, bye bye Moscow." > > Nuclear Warheads > I admit there are problems with the 'limited exchange' theory but as I've > said before in the T2k world I can't imagine that much damage being done > without a large (in total) exchange taking place at some point and I don't > like the idea of their still being a lot of nukes hanging around. > > Anyone ever used a timeline where the limited exchange didn't happen or > there was a single, more destructive, exchange? > Has anyone else noticed that T2K completely ignores MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) policy? I'm curious as to what people think would really happen in real life if Russia started throwing nukes around... - -Erwos *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:49:24 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Millenium + Limited Nuclear Exchange At 12:10 PM 2/11/99 -0000, Mark Oliver wrote: [Snip.] >For example if could start with the use of nuclear depth charges by NATO to >protect a carrier, War. Actually I think the opposite is more likely: the Soviets have the weaker navy, and might be tempted to use a nuke to take out a carrier, but I like the general idea. (Actually, I don't think we have any nuke DC's anymore.) [Snip.] >The scene that the background paints at the time when this exchange starts >is that the military is firmly in control of the war (as oppossed to >Governments). Thus the removal of the civilian command structure during the >exchanges would not lead to the military command structure feeling 'too' >threatend. Both sides would be well aware of what could happen in an all >out exchange would be very wary not to initiate it and to not force the >other side into intiating it. > Well to stick directly to technical issues, the military can't launch nukes without the civilian command authority giving permission for each launch--and that's the case in Russia as well. [Snip.] Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:43:48 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Millenium Bug & Missiles FYI: For anyone discussing the effect the millenium might have on missiles and such, I just ran across this article today on BBC's news site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_277000/277679.stm It describes a meeting between militaries in Korea regarding fears that missiles may be accidentally launched come 2000. -- S2000 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:36:25 -0800 From: Snake Eyes Subject: Speaking of Russian Nukes... ...The lead story on the Tuesday edition of CNN's "WorldView" was a bit of hype regarding the decrepit state of the former Soviet Union's early-warning satellite system. The Washington Post is also running a series on post-Cold War Russia: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/coldwar/shatter021099a.htm Here's a pretty ominous excerpt: "Theodore A. Postol, a professor at MIT, has questioned whether it has look-down capability at any ocean. Without this capacity, Postol said, Russia would be blind to sea-launched missiles. 'Russia has no space-based early warning against the most potent threat its land-based forces face, the U.S. Trident submarine-launched ballistic missiles,' he said. "Postol noted that Russia's system of ground-based early-warning radar has also been degraded because many installations were built on the Soviet periphery - outside Russia – and are now in independent states. An important radar station in Latvia was closed last August and has not been replaced, and there are other gaps, as well. Postol has mapped "corridors" in which missiles could be launched at Russia that would not even show up on the existing radar screens. One such avenue runs from the Pacific, where most Tridents are based, into the heart of Russia from the Far East. "'There are large parts of the Russian forces that could be attacked from the Gulf of Alaska and would be destroyed without Russia even knowing an attack was underway,' Postol said in an interview. 'Moscow could be destroyed within four to five minutes of the radars seeing the incoming warheads.' "The situation is risky, Postol said, in that it could drive Russia more and more toward making a quick decision to retaliate – one that would be based on less reliable information. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:45:52 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Merc:2000 Angola Greetings to all.... I am currently running a Merc:2000 campaign in which the character group is running a mission into current-day Angola. This is in light of the recent renewal of fighting there and the downing of the two UN C-130s there (that is what their mission is centered on--investigating those crashes). I am interested to know if anyone has any info on Angolan and UNITA armed forces, particularly around the garrisonned city of Huambo, where the planes were downed. Thanks in advance for any info you might have to offer... -- S2000 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 17:53:16 +1100 From: "Graeme Paine" Subject: Re: Y2K in T2K >At 05:09 PM 2/10/99 +0000, Eddie Hallahan wrote: >>I heard an interesting statistic for Britain, I'm not sure how well it >>applies to the rest of the world though. >> >>Basically, one of my mates works at a bank and they had just finished a >>study that says if everyone in britain took out an extra 30 pounds before >>the new year 'just in case' the economy would collapse. It's a scarily >>small amount and it is this low due to the amount of transactions that are >>done electronically. There is simply a lot less hard currency floating >>about britain than there used to be. >> >Printing up more bills for this occasion is pretty easy though; and I'm >sure someone will have though of it--er, actually, I guess you've just >proved someone has. :) > >Scott Orr You cant just start printing money, once you start doing that everything gets devalued. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:28:11 -0000 From: "Mark Oliver" Subject: Millenium in T2K, Israel and limited Nuclear War This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BE5683.27790660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Millenium in T2K Thought about this some more and I=92m really growing to like the idea. = Have some kind of religious movement building up steam as the end of the = year 2000 approaches. Not sure what kind of form this movement might = take but something apocalyptic and vengeful might be interesting. They = would presumably see the state of the world as a part of some = anti-Christ=92s plans. Maybe they would turn on the players for being a = component of what destroyed the world, maybe they would recruit the = players to be Gods vengeful hands and to strike back at certain sites. = Interesting possibilities anyhow. Israel Erwos wrote =96 "Also, that would mean Israel would be one of the most = stable places in the world" I always figured that with the backs of the super powers turned Israel = and its neighbours would tear each other apart pretty much as India and = Pakistan did. Anyone ever prepare/find some source material for the = Middle East? Limited Nuclear Exchange Erwos asked =96 "Also, how do you "unintentionally" take out national = capitals?" I didn=92t presume that they did, I took the timeline to mean that the = "unintentionally" destroyed the civilian command structure. This might = well have been done by taking out the capitals. I always heard when I = was young that the Russians never targeted a warhead at London itself. = What they would do is hit the Military and Industrial targets that ring = London and the overlap from the blasts would destroy London almost as a = side effect. Repeated War.Pact strikes against these targets around = London in a limited exchange would gradually destroy London and make it = unliveable. The same effect could well happen to other capital cities. Erwos asked =96 "Has anyone else noticed that T2K completely ignores = MAD" (Mutually Assured Yeah, that=92s puzzled me. That=92s why I=92m trying to justify a = limited nuclear exchange. As I=92ve said I can=92t imagine there still = being nuclear weapons stockpiles in the T2K world. This means they must = have been used or destroyed. Their usage also accounts for the state of = the world. However if an all out war occurred then the state of the = world would be far worse and IMHO unplayable (I=92d welcome thoughts = from those that have tried this). So I think T2K ignored MAD for the = sake of playability and interest. I think the limited war scenario is a = bit unlikely but is plausible. Scott wrote =96 "Well to stick directly to technical issues, the = military can't launch nukes without the civilian command authority = giving permission for each launch--and that's the case in Russia as = well." I=92ve read a few books that state that this isn=92t the case for the = smaller battlefield weapons. Army commanders wouldn=92t accept this as = it would limit the tactical usefulness of such a weapon. One of the = books that goes into this is called "State Scarlet". I can=92t remember = the authors name but he certainly seems to know a lot about the = authentication and firing sequences of US nuclear weapons. He was = involved in the Government somewhere. The book is about the theft of a = nuclear demolition charge and it=92s use by terrorists. How=92s about the following for a possibility? The army and government = are falling out. The army wants to use nuclear weapons but the = government won=92t give the authority. The army finds a way to launch = some of it=92s larger missiles and most of it=92s smaller arms. = Gradually they find a way to enable more and more weapons without the = governments authority. As well as the strategic reasons for controlling = the nuclear exchange (not wanting an all out war) this would also place = real material limits on the scope of the exchanges. Anyway to conclude all this I feel I need the limited nuclear exchange = to have taken place. What I'm looking for is the most plausible chain = of events that would allow this to happen. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BE5683.27790660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Millenium in T2K Thought about this some more and I’m really growing to like the = idea.=20 Have some kind of religious movement building up steam as the end of the = year=20 2000 approaches. Not sure what kind of form this movement might take but = something apocalyptic and vengeful might be interesting. They would = presumably=20 see the state of the world as a part of some anti-Christ’s plans. = Maybe=20 they would turn on the players for being a component of what destroyed = the=20 world, maybe they would recruit the players to be Gods vengeful hands = and to=20 strike back at certain sites. Interesting possibilities=20 anyhow. Israel Erwos wrote – "Also, that would mean Israel would be one = of the=20 most stable places in the world" I always figured that with the backs of the super powers turned = Israel and=20 its neighbours would tear each other apart pretty much as India and = Pakistan=20 did. Anyone ever prepare/find some source material for the Middle = East? Limited Nuclear Exchange Erwos asked – "Also, how do you = "unintentionally"=20 take out national capitals?" I didn’t presume that they did, I took the timeline to mean = that the=20 "unintentionally" destroyed the civilian command structure. = This might=20 well have been done by taking out the capitals. I always heard when I = was young=20 that the Russians never targeted a warhead at London itself. What they = would do=20 is hit the Military and Industrial targets that ring London and the = overlap from=20 the blasts would destroy London almost as a side effect. Repeated = War.Pact=20 strikes against these targets around London in a limited exchange would=20 gradually destroy London and make it unliveable. The same effect could = well=20 happen to other capital cities. Erwos asked – "Has = anyone else=20 noticed that T2K completely ignores MAD" (Mutually Assured Yeah, that’s puzzled me. That’s why I’m trying to = justify a=20 limited nuclear exchange. As I’ve said I can’t imagine there = still=20 being nuclear weapons stockpiles in the T2K world. This means they must = have=20 been used or destroyed. Their usage also accounts for the state of the = world.=20 However if an all out war occurred then the state of the world would be = far=20 worse and IMHO unplayable (I’d welcome thoughts from those that = have tried=20 this). So I think T2K ignored MAD for the sake of playability and = interest. I=20 think the limited war scenario is a bit unlikely but is = plausible. Scott wrote – "Well to stick directly to technical issues, = the=20 military can't launch nukes without the civilian command authority = giving=20 permission for each launch--and that's the case in Russia as = well." I’ve read a few books that state that this isn’t the case = for the=20 smaller battlefield weapons. Army commanders wouldn’t accept this = as it=20 would limit the tactical usefulness of such a weapon. One of the books = that goes=20 into this is called "State Scarlet". I can’t remember = the=20 authors name but he certainly seems to know a lot about the = authentication and=20 firing sequences of US nuclear weapons. He was involved in the = Government=20 somewhere. The book is about the theft of a nuclear demolition charge = and=20 it’s use by terrorists. How’s about the following for a possibility? The army and = government=20 are falling out. The army wants to use nuclear weapons but the = government=20 won’t give the authority. The army finds a way to launch some of=20 it’s larger missiles and most of it’s smaller arms. = Gradually they=20 find a way to enable more and more weapons without the governments = authority. As=20 well as the strategic reasons for controlling the nuclear exchange (not = wanting=20 an all out war) this would also place real material limits on the scope = of the=20 exchanges. Anyway to conclude all this I feel I need the limited nuclear = exchange to=20 have taken place. What I'm looking for is the most plausible chain = of=20 events that would allow this to happen. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BE5683.27790660-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:20:48 +0000 From: Eddie Hallahan Subject: Re: Millenium in T2K, Israel and limited Nuclear War Here's an off the wall scenario for a LNE. An extremely well funded organisation manages to hack into many of the various command and control systems for the nukes, perhaps through being the most used global Y2K consultant? Anyway, they after hacking in, maybe wait for a while then initiate the LNE, perhaps taking out financial centers or governmental centers rather than the classic military targets we all expect. Said militaries will of course be convinced entirely that the other side started it. I know this is a bit vague but I just thought of it and haven't fleshed it out at all. A religous/spitual group would prob be the best bet, money/wealth wouldn't be a good motivater to de civilise the world. EddieH *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 08:40:29 -0500 From: "Andy Sinden" Subject: Need some help Hi, I'm pretty new to the whole T2k system, and it looks like I joined up a little late. Anyone out there know of a place to find any of the books? It seems that they are pretty rare these days. Thanks -Andy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:01:49 -0500 (EST) From: Cameron and Lauralee Subject: Re: Need some help My suggestion.... go to Ebay. It is an online auction. There are some great deals to be had! www.ebay.com Registration is required, but it costs nothing! At 08:40 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, I'm pretty new to the whole T2k system, and it looks like I joined up >a little late. Anyone out there know of a place to find any of the books? >It seems that they are pretty rare these days. Thanks > > > -Andy > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 13:16:17 -0700 From: Rogue09 Subject: Re: Need some help Cameron and Lauralee wrote: > > My suggestion.... go to Ebay. It is an online auction. > There are some great deals to be had! > www.ebay.com > > Registration is required, but it costs nothing! > > At 08:40 AM 2/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, I'm pretty new to the whole T2k system, and it looks like I joined up > >a little late. Anyone out there know of a place to find any of the books? > >It seems that they are pretty rare these days. Thanks > > > > > > -Andy > > Titan Games (http://www.titan-games.com/) and The Sentry Box (http://www.sentrybox.com/) are two good places to start as they update their materials monthly... T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 12:30:35 PST From: "Brandon Cope" Subject: Re: Need some help >From: "Andy Sinden" > >Hi, I'm pretty new to the whole T2k system, and it looks like I joined up >a little late. Anyone out there know of a place to find any of the books? >It seems that they are pretty rare these days. Thanks > Depending on what large city you live in/near, older RPG/comic shops may be worth a shot (the longer they've been in buisness, the better). Also, used-book stores (especially the Half Price Books chain in the US) might be worth a shot. A generous and sadistic GM, Brandon Cope ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 16:54:21 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Y2K in T2K At 05:53 PM 2/12/99 +1100, Graeme Paine wrote: > >>At 05:09 PM 2/10/99 +0000, Eddie Hallahan wrote: >>>I heard an interesting statistic for Britain, I'm not sure how well it >>>applies to the rest of the world though. >>> >>>Basically, one of my mates works at a bank and they had just finished a >>>study that says if everyone in britain took out an extra 30 pounds before >>>the new year 'just in case' the economy would collapse. It's a scarily >>>small amount and it is this low due to the amount of transactions that are >>>done electronically. There is simply a lot less hard currency floating >>>about britain than there used to be. >>> >>Printing up more bills for this occasion is pretty easy though; and I'm >>sure someone will have though of it--er, actually, I guess you've just >>proved someone has. :) >> >>Scott Orr > > >You cant just start printing money, once you start doing that everything >gets devalued. > No, that's not true: things get devalued _if_you_increase_the_money_supply. That is, if you just printed hte money and gave it to people (or used it to pay the government's bills) you'd create inflation. However, if you're printing paper money to take the place of electronic money, as people pull the electronic money out of banks, then it doesn't have that effect at all--you're just changing the money from one form to another. Indeed, usually when people refer to "printing money" in the sense of a government policy that results in inflation, most of the money being "printed" is actually electronic. Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:41:43 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Millenium in T2K, Israel and limited Nuclear War Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, eddy.hallahan@strath.ac.uk produced: > Here's an off the wall scenario for a LNE. > An extremely well funded organisation manages to hack into many of the various > command and control systems for the nukes, perhaps through being the most used > global Y2K consultant? Even if you had funds coming out of your ears, sucsessfully taking over (even for a limited time) a nuke C&C takes more. I am not speaking of computer expertise, known uncrackable crypto (one time pad) and no connection to the outside (computer wise). You also have to bribe a lot of people to do thinks the know will come down as nukes on them and their loved ones. You have to trick the people who turn the keys remotely. And so on. Probably your best chance would be to forcefully take over a sub and have a few technicans prepare and launch the missiles. It would be easier to be a terrorist, steal/buy enough plutonium from russia and a missile from Saddam (or build your own) and launch *it*. Knowing that few countries have nuclear warhead missiles, you can guess where the crackdown will go to if you fake it well. > I know this is a bit vague but I just thought of it and haven't fleshed it out > at all. A religous/spitual group would prob be the best bet, money/wealth > wouldn't be a good motivater to de civilise the world. Why not? Goldfinger would make Fort Knox' gold reserves radioactive (and thrive from his own gold suddenly worth much more). And he loved gold. So why not nuke it? Don't have much shares and want to devalue them? Nuke the share exchanges. Hate the real estate owners in X? Nuke/spoil their land, and preserve yours. Want to increase sales? Let them use off the old nukes, so they'll buy new ones. :-) Own a militia and still want to take over the world? Nuke your enemy (or make him nuke it out with his arch enemy) and then invade Texas. :-) Yeah, you need a somewhad mad outlook on the world to belive it'll work, but there was more than one crazy dictator. - -Wolfgang - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 18:37:31 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Millenium Bug & Missiles Heh, what if a missile just happened to be fired off because of the "millenium bug" (nudge nudge wink wink). Josh Baumgartner wrote: > FYI: > > For anyone discussing the effect the millenium might have on missiles > and such, I just ran across this article today on BBC's news site: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_277000/277679.stm > > It describes a meeting between militaries in Korea regarding fears > that missiles may be accidentally launched come 2000. > > -- S2000 > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #12 ************************************