twilight2000-digest Saturday, January 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 006 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Campaigning in the Pac NW Suppressed Weapons and other goodies Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? RE: Canadian Involvement Re: Suppressed Weapons and other goodies Re: Campaign Settings Flamethrower Rules. Campaign Settings Re: Flamethrower Rules. RE: Canadian Involvement Re: Canadian Involvement Canadian Involvement Re: Canadian Involvement Re: Canadian Involvement Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:54:09 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Campaigning in the Pac NW Hmmm....Why do I suddenly have this idea about my player group hunting down a pirate ship buried deep in a cave somewhere south of Astoria...ala 'The Goonies'....lol Was someone asking for story ideas? S2000 - ---Benjamin Brandt wrote: > > And I know tons about the Willamette Valley and Oregon Coast! Gosh, if we > keep this going we could very well cover the entire west coast of North > America! > > > On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Michael Cook wrote: > > > In the same region, I can share my knowledge about British Columbia. > > > > Michael Cook > > > > ---Josh Baumgartner wrote: > > > > > > As far as 'regional advisors', I'd be more than happy to share my > > > knowledge about Oregon & Washington, particularly the Portland/Seattle > > > corridor. In view of the not-so-successful Soviet actions in that > > > area (which I haven't found very good coverage in any sourcebooks), it > > > seems like a GM would have a lot of room to be creative. I know the > > > Puget Sound/Seattle area got nuked pretty badly (lots of naval > > > facilities), but Oregon is almost free of US Gov't facilities, so it > > > didn't get targeted much. Anyway, let me know if you want any > > info.... > > > > > > S2000 > > > _________________________________________________________ > > > DO YOU YAHOO!? > > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with > > the line > > > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > DO YOU YAHOO!? > > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 01:13:16 -0500 From: "The Taylors" Subject: Suppressed Weapons and other goodies Heya, Anyone come up with rules for suppressed weapons, laser sights and scopes, and all that stuff? I've got a majority of the rulebooks put out for Twilight/Merc 2000, and don't recall seeing anything in there. I plan on one of these days running a campaign which will make pretty hefty use of the H&K MP5-SD series of subguns. I don't recall seeing any stats for the MP-5 SD series in any of the books, but then again, I'll have to take a look...any thoughts on rules for laser sights/scopes and NVGs as well as suppressors? Chris *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:14:50 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Just a few notes on Swiss ABM capability... 1) Such a system would have to be behind a great deal of secrecy to go all this time without widespread knowledge of its existence. This means that personnel assigned to guard the facility would not be told what it was. I have experience on US Naval bases, and I know that in more sensitive areas, even elite Marine guards have no clue as to what exactly they are guarding, they only know who is allowed in and who to shoot on sight. 2) As regards the cost of the system, the vast majority of the cost is not in building enough lasers/missiles to defend the country, but in the research and development of the technology before the first prototype is built. 3) It wouldn't be advantageous for the Swiss to develop such a system. It is much more cost-effective for the Swiss to build facilities to help their assets survive a missile attack then unproven methods of defeating the missiles airborne. This is in fact what they have done, and thus why it would be extremely difficult for a missile attack to paralyze the Swiss military. 4) Once any ABM system becomes operational, the existance of the system must be made known for it to function. Afterall, its job is to deter an enemy from launching in the first place, and an enemy can't be detered by what they don't know about. This doesn't change the fact that the actual sites would still be surrounded in secrecy (to prevent their preemptive elimination), but the existance of the system as a whole would be made public so that any aggressor would feel much less confident in launching a missile strike. 5) You are correct in mentioning $300 hammers and the like. The extra 'padding' does someimes go to funding black programs, as well as more mundane cost overruns in other areas. 6) Of course the existance of UFO technology would upset some but not all of this debate. But I personally am not one to go forwarding ideas for which I have not found hard evidence to back them up. 7) T2K is of course an RPG, so if you want to explore what-ifs like a Swiss ABM, I guess its as good a system as any to do it in. -- S2000 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:20:26 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: RE: Canadian Involvement Actually, not a site on Canadians in particullar, but a site detailing a wide variety of subjects related to Twilight and Merc. I just had noticed that Canadian references in the game books was decidedly lacking, so I launched a little research. I don't have the site up yet but I'll let all know when it goes online. -- S2000 - ---"bootboy@niagara.com" wrote: > > Your welcome and there is still more to come. > > Further research on my part has lead me to believe that the 5th Brigade > group another of the component units, beyond that it just there is only > mention that further supporting units would be attached as required for a > balanced mission capability. It would seem reasonable to me that one of > those components would be the airborne regiment, as that's as close as us > Canadians have to a special operations force. (Note: I know that the > regiment is disbanded, but because it's a game I follow the timeline of the > book mostly and it doesn't say anything about Canadian military scandals > anywhere in there that I've looked.) > One of the revisions that I would like to see happen is the inclusion of > the first Canadian division into the European Theatre. It was ear marked > for deployment into central Europe in event of WP hostilities, and damn it > we Canadians are nothing if we aren't committed to everybody else's > security before our own. > > Are you working on a website detailing the Canucks? I've been working on a > site for about 2 weeks in my spare time (couple of hours a week, at best). > If your working on one, how about dropping me an e-mail line and we can > compare our efforts, to avoid publishing the same material or contradicting > one another? If your not working one on, I still am and would like to > collaborate with you all the same. > > Ray > > > > Thanks for all the details on Canadian Forces in Europe. > As far as the Canadian 1st Division, I have read (from 'The World's > Armies', Chris Westhorp, 1991) that the 1st was to be comprised of > both the brigade in Europe (the 4th) as well as another unspecified > brigade to be sent there. However, it is not clear if that brigade > would be sent to Germany or to Norway, where another battalion is > earmarked to be sent to Norway along with the UK Royal Marines. > I don't know which brigade in Canada is supposed to be sent. > Supposedly there is a further mechanized brigade at home, as well as > an infantry brigade. > > -- S2000 > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream name=WINMAIL.DAT > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:32:28 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Suppressed Weapons and other goodies for supressed info, try the archive from the 15th of january, for my post on the topic. and as for Laser sights, etc.. try; http://pages.prodigy.net/loonz857/t2k/t2k.htm under "my stuff" The MP-5SD was mentioned in the Small arms Guide, and the stats were reprinted in the Referees Screen. If you dont have either of these, drop me a line, and I'll fill you in. Cheers Damian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:48:05 +1100 From: "Graeme Paine" Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Hi im from Victoria, Australia and would be willing to help with the areas of New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania, as well as with the Australian army. my E-Mail address is Blast@netconnect.com >I've noticed that the people on this list come from quite a wide area. T2K >is set in the real world. I know that I could run a well researched game in >the area that I live (East London, Essex) but I want to start a campaign in >Poland. I've been trying to find out about the area and couldn't find that >much. I thought it would be great if I could talk to someone who lives in >the area, this grew into an idea for a web page where I could collect people >who anybody could talk to. > >As the campaign moves around Europe I can contact other volunteers and see >what they can tell me. Interesting things like bridges, military bases, old >forts etc. If someone else wants to set a game in London then I can help >them out in return. > >Of course you could just make it all up, but isn't it better to know that >what you're doing has some basis in truth. Besides knowing that there is an >old castle near where your PCs are could spark an adventure idea in some GMs >head. > >Thanks in advance, > >Mark Oliver-Macklin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:01:39 CET From: "Nis Mathiesen" Subject: Flamethrower Rules. Hiya! In my current campaign, a group of enemy Spetznaz is about to clear out a crashed plane, filled with 155mm nervegas grenades - to that purpose I have equipped them with a LPO-50 flamethrower. I have got its stats, BUT I have not got the rules for its use (Anti personel) - so if anyone with that knowledge and the time to drop me a few lines with the basics, I could have my b-b-q going in a short while. Flamin' hot: Nis ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:17:44 +0000 From: Eddie Hallahan Subject: Campaign Settings Hey ho all, Well I'm from Scotland. Let me know if you want any info about here, especially the outer Hebrides and/or Glasgow. EddieH *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 02:54:00 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Flamethrower Rules. Regarding flamethrower use.... In the Hvy Weapons Book it states that a hot shot from a flame thrower covers an are 4m square which burns for one minute. Anyone in the square is damaged by burning gasoline which I believe is covered in the main book. Listed range is for napalm fuel...using ordinary gasoline cuts range in half. If the flamethrower canisters are hit, resolve as a fuel hit on a vehicle. -- S2000 - ---Nis Mathiesen wrote: > > Hiya! > > In my current campaign, a group of enemy Spetznaz is about to clear out > a crashed plane, filled with 155mm nervegas grenades - to that purpose I > have equipped them with a LPO-50 flamethrower. > I have got its stats, BUT I have not got the rules for its use (Anti > personel) - so if anyone with that knowledge and the time to drop me a > few lines with the basics, I could have my b-b-q going in a short while. > > Flamin' hot: > > Nis > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:05:33 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: RE: Canadian Involvement With the airborne regiment disbanded, who in Canada fulfills special missions? What units are usually the ones who are deployed for UN missions and the like? As far as I can tell, there are no Canadian air squadrons based in Germany now or recently. I guess they plan to deploy in the event of hostilities. I'm also trying to figure out the Canadian OOB at home because in T2K they are also engaged against the Soviets in the Alaska/BC/Pacific NW invasion as well as against seperatist Quebec. Thanks again for the info. S2000 - ---"bootboy@niagara.com" wrote: > > Your welcome and there is still more to come. > > Further research on my part has lead me to believe that the 5th Brigade > group another of the component units, beyond that it just there is only > mention that further supporting units would be attached as required for a > balanced mission capability. It would seem reasonable to me that one of > those components would be the airborne regiment, as that's as close as us > Canadians have to a special operations force. (Note: I know that the > regiment is disbanded, but because it's a game I follow the timeline of the > book mostly and it doesn't say anything about Canadian military scandals > anywhere in there that I've looked.) > One of the revisions that I would like to see happen is the inclusion of > the first Canadian division into the European Theatre. It was ear marked > for deployment into central Europe in event of WP hostilities, and damn it > we Canadians are nothing if we aren't committed to everybody else's > security before our own. > > Are you working on a website detailing the Canucks? I've been working on a > site for about 2 weeks in my spare time (couple of hours a week, at best). > If your working on one, how about dropping me an e-mail line and we can > compare our efforts, to avoid publishing the same material or contradicting > one another? If your not working one on, I still am and would like to > collaborate with you all the same. > > Ray _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:06:56 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Canadian Involvement Unfortunately, I am unable to locate a copy of the NATO Combat Vehicle Guide v.1, and am interested to see what it says in regards to Canadian OOB/Units. S2000 - ---Troy Hansen wrote: > > > > Josh Baumgartner wrote: > > > Unfortunately, I don't have access to that book (or much v.1 stuff at > > all for that matter). I do have a friend who has some so I'll have to > > research, thanks for the pointer. > > > > If your friend doesn't have it I can dig out my copy and post it. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:37:59 +1100 From: Peter Grining Subject: Canadian Involvement The involvement of Canadian troops in Twilight:2000's WWIII depend on a couple of political issues. Regular forces of Land Command consisted (late 1980s source) of: 1st Canadian Brigade Group. Calgary, Alberta 3 Mech Inf Battalions: 1st, 3rd Bn Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry : 3rd Bn Royal Canadian Regiment 1 Armoured Recce Battalion: Lord Strathcona's Horse 1 Artillery Battalion: 3rd Regiment Royal Canadian Horse Artillery 1 Engineer Battalion: 1st Engineer Regiment 5 Groupe-Brigade du Canada. Valcartier, Quebec 1 Armour: 12e Regt Blinde du Canada 3 Bn Mech Inf: 2e, 3e Bn Royal 22e Regt, 2nd Bn Royal Canadian Regiment 1 Artillery Bn: 5e Regt a'Artillerie legere du Canada 1 Engineer: (?) 5e Rget Genie du Combat Also called the CAST (Canadian Air/Sea Transportable) brigade. Would deploy to Norway in 1980s. Changed early 1990s, with this unit to go to southern Germany with 4th Brigade to from a Canadian Division. 4th Canadian Mechanised Brigade Group. Lahr, southern Germany Royal Canadian Dragoons (34 Leopard 1 peacetime, 48 war) 2 Mech Inf Battalions: 1 Bn Royal 22e Regiment, 2 Bn Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry 1 Artillery Battalion: 1st Regiment Royal Canadian Horse Artillery 1 Engineer Battalion: 4th Combat Engineer Regiment 1 Helo Squadron: 444th Tactical Helo Sqn (Observation only) Would be used as reserves under German II Corps or US VII Corps. In the T2K timeline Canada would have purchased a new MBT. Contenders were M1A1 or Leopard 2. This was cancelled in the real world. Canadian forces are a little light to stand up to heavy armoured forces. Peter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:06:49 -0700 From: Rogue09 Subject: Re: Canadian Involvement Josh Baumgartner wrote: > > With the airborne regiment disbanded, who in Canada fulfills special > missions? What units are usually the ones who are deployed for UN > missions and the like? > As far as I can tell, there are no Canadian air squadrons based in > Germany now or recently. I guess they plan to deploy in the event of > hostilities. > I'm also trying to figure out the Canadian OOB at home because in > T2K they are also engaged against the Soviets in the Alaska/BC/Pacific > NW invasion as well as against seperatist Quebec. Thanks again for > the info. > S2000 > > ---"bootboy@niagara.com" wrote: There is a site i frequent which deals with Spec Ops unit, and it has a handy refrence page with links to a portion of sites dealing with units from around the world...some of th einfo is generic...some is highly detailed... Go here... http://www.specialoperations.com/foreign.html Hope this helps T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:00:33 -0400 From: wardlow Subject: Re: Canadian Involvement Vandoos would normally handle these type of operations now that the Airborne is disbanded. Vlad Rogue09 wrote: > Josh Baumgartner wrote: > > > > With the airborne regiment disbanded, who in Canada fulfills special > > missions? What units are usually the ones who are deployed for UN > > missions and the like? > > As far as I can tell, there are no Canadian air squadrons based in > > Germany now or recently. I guess they plan to deploy in the event of > > hostilities. > > I'm also trying to figure out the Canadian OOB at home because in > > T2K they are also engaged against the Soviets in the Alaska/BC/Pacific > > NW invasion as well as against seperatist Quebec. Thanks again for > > the info. > > S2000 > > > > ---"bootboy@niagara.com" wrote: > > There is a site i frequent which deals with Spec Ops unit, and it has a > handy refrence page with links to a portion of sites dealing with units > from around the world...some of th einfo is generic...some is highly > detailed... > > Go here... > > http://www.specialoperations.com/foreign.html > > Hope this helps > > T.R. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:47:27 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, strategist_2000@yahoo.com produced: > 1) Such a system would have to be behind a great deal of secrecy to Aka the documens are "to be burned before reading". :-) > 2) As regards the cost of the system, the vast majority of the cost > is not in building enough lasers/missiles to defend the country, but > in the research and development of the technology before the first > prototype is built. s/vast majority of the// > This is in fact what they > have done, and thus why it would be extremely difficult for a missile > attack to paralyze the Swiss military. Apart from the fact that every able man has been through the army, is in the reserve til he's 45 (or something), the Swiss are proud of their marksmanship (and shooting is a common pastime) and every soldier (reserve or active) happens to have his rifle + ammo at home. Try nuking an army that's spread over the maximum area they can. > 4) Once any ABM system becomes operational, the existance of the > system must be made known for it to function. Afterall, its job is to > deter an enemy from launching in the first place, and an enemy can't > be detered by what they don't know about. Just have a look at Dr. Strangelove or how I stopped worrying and started to love the bomb (or so, that's from memory) just to underline the fact. > 6) Of course the existance of UFO technology would upset some but not 'UFO technology' ... does that mean the technology on every unidentified flying object (weather baloons, geese, maybe your occasional stealth plane, an old WWI fighter, ... )? Or do you refer to extraterrestral technology (satellites, deep space probes, the viking landers, or the sun) [Ok, I'm stretching it a bit]? Hmmm ... looking for a good term ... alien? Naah. A russian nuclear sub would clearly be alien to most people. Non-human? So what if apes do use and make tools? Maybe 'technology from a strange 'alien' race, which chooses not to reveal themselves to the mass, only to some chosen, unimportant individuals who are not believed, but do drive their vehicles as if they were drunk ... or happen to have enormous technical problems every now and then.' ... hmmm ... a bit long, eh? And if these aliens are as strange as they seem to act, would *you* trust their technology to function and not turn against you? - -Wolfgang PS: Okok, the UFO-stuff was mostly tongue in cheek. - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:28:17 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, cdmandus@nauticom.net produced: > Maybe the > guard could have been bragging a bit, you know, "look what WE have" and so > on. ABM systems were the big thing during the 1960's. Or maybe bragging that it was not just a tool shed he was guarding. Shesh, tool sheds/buildings/etc that open up to reveal weapons are real nice FX, but I'd say they are of limited military value: There are only so many of them so you more or less know where to strike, for example. You want to be able to have a weapon in any place, so they are much harder to guess. > It would not be > nearly as expensive of a system as the US or USSR would need, the Swiss > territory is so small compared to both countries so they would only need a > handful of such lasers for their defense. Cost == R&D, and the USA happen to have much more of a budget. > I even asked him (my > teacher) about how could this be so and he replied that "some countries > could have secretly developed defenses that very few know about." Maybe ^^^^^^^^ And then brag openly to total strangers about the exact locations. Well, it's well known that the US of A has and the former USSR had nuclear missile subs. But they'd never reveal their positions, for that would make them vulnerable. More examples: Think of the German secret weapons in the first and second World War (gas and rockets/unmanned flying bombs). Their weak spot was the facilities to make and (in the second case) launch them. > I remember hearing a news report, CBS News > (or one of our then Big Three Networks) back in the late 1970's where the > USSR was developing such a system that had some sort of anti-missile device > housed in a pyramid shaped building, but nothing more was heard about it. So you are probably safe to assume it was not true. Would the US really want the USSR to know that they knew their little secret? > UFO's? Well, since you brought it up, again, maybe some technology might > have been harvested from the various UFO crashes provided if any of them > are true, and personally, I believe many such crashes have happened. BTW, > the one most talked about happened in Roswell, New Mexico with another > crash at Corona which is in the same state. I seem to remember that at least one crash was an unmanned lifting body (if I remeber the technical term right, basically a thing shaped in a way that it provides lift, aka flies (or glides, since it's unpowered)) which was tested for reentry vehicles. Something like the space shuttle, but without the stub wings ... basically a modified wing - only design (the body is the wing and vice versa). > When I had my group together for a TW2K game, I even had them investigate a > UFO landing in one of my games for just something a bit different. Twilight Nightmares? - -Wolfgang - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:44:34 -0500 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Boy, I started something here, didn't I? B-) Anyways, my posts on the alleged ABM systems of the Swiss would make interesting fodder for any TW2K games. If they are real, I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. It wouldn't surprise me either way. I have an old April 1968 issue of "Popular Science" that illustrates the proposed ABM system that the US was going to build at that time using Sprint and Spartan missiles under the Sentinel System aka "(Robert) MacNamara's Shield." No lasers mentioned there of course, but that would have been the next logical step. I've always have an interest in black ops, UFO stuff, conspiracies, and prophecy, back in the 1970's used to read a lot of it from my grandmother's library as a kid. As to the Russian "Pyramid" (my term for ease of description) defense system, maybe it used some sort of radio waves to EMP the missile electronics of an enemy launch. Maybe it used some sort of things like Tesla technology. I don't know. I remember Walter Cronkite reporting on it about 1977 or 1978. I was 11 or 12 then, being born in 1966. Walter Cronkite? Well, he was the "most trusted man in America." B-) UFO's in Twilight 2000? It would make an interesting diversion. Of course it would be up to the refs to make them out to be anything from aliens observing WWIII, old Nazis and/or their descendants flying aircraft from hidden bases in the Amazon jungle or the Antarctic, to even various "black ops" projects of the USSR, US, UK, France, Germany, Red China, etc that were secretly developed by the various nations with or without extraterrestrial help. Hmmmm, sort of like mixing Twilight/Merc: 2000 with a little Dark Conspiracy. "Twilight Nightmares" I like it. Chuck DE KA3WRW "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. - ---------- > From: Wolfgang Weisselberg > To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? > Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 8:28 PM > > Hi! > > Trying to kill the keyboard, cdmandus@nauticom.net produced: > > Maybe the > > guard could have been bragging a bit, you know, "look what WE have" and so > > on. ABM systems were the big thing during the 1960's. > > Or maybe bragging that it was not just a tool shed he was > guarding. Shesh, tool sheds/buildings/etc that open up to > reveal weapons are real nice FX, but I'd say they are of limited > military value: There are only so many of them so you more or > less know where to strike, for example. You want to be able to > have a weapon in any place, so they are much harder to guess. > > > It would not be > > nearly as expensive of a system as the US or USSR would need, the Swiss > > territory is so small compared to both countries so they would only need a > > handful of such lasers for their defense. > > Cost == R&D, and the USA happen to have much more of a budget. > > > I even asked him (my > > teacher) about how could this be so and he replied that "some countries > > could have secretly developed defenses that very few know about." Maybe > ^^^^^^^^ > And then brag openly to total strangers about the exact > locations. Well, it's well known that the US of A has and the > former USSR had nuclear missile subs. But they'd never reveal > their positions, for that would make them vulnerable. More > examples: Think of the German secret weapons in the first and > second World War (gas and rockets/unmanned flying bombs). Their > weak spot was the facilities to make and (in the second case) > launch them. > > > I remember hearing a news report, CBS News > > (or one of our then Big Three Networks) back in the late 1970's where the > > USSR was developing such a system that had some sort of anti-missile device > > housed in a pyramid shaped building, but nothing more was heard about it. > > So you are probably safe to assume it was not true. Would the > US really want the USSR to know that they knew their little > secret? > > > UFO's? Well, since you brought it up, again, maybe some technology might > > have been harvested from the various UFO crashes provided if any of them > > are true, and personally, I believe many such crashes have happened. BTW, > > the one most talked about happened in Roswell, New Mexico with another > > crash at Corona which is in the same state. > > I seem to remember that at least one crash was an unmanned > lifting body (if I remeber the technical term right, basically a > thing shaped in a way that it provides lift, aka flies (or > glides, since it's unpowered)) which was tested for reentry > vehicles. Something like the space shuttle, but without the > stub wings ... basically a modified wing - only design (the body > is the wing and vice versa). > > > When I had my group together for a TW2K game, I even had them investigate a > > UFO landing in one of my games for just something a bit different. > > Twilight Nightmares? > > -Wolfgang > > -- > PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". > Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. > How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: > http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:35:17 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, cdmandus@nauticom.net produced: > "Twilight Nightmares" I like it. So you read it? - -Wolfgang PS: Would be nice if you cut the original text down to what you reply to. Usually the answer follows the snippets of the original you reply to, too, even if your program does not comply to that custom. - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:37:35 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: > > 4) Once any ABM system becomes operational, the existance of the > > system must be made known for it to function. Afterall, its job is to > > deter an enemy from launching in the first place, and an enemy can't > > be detered by what they don't know about. > > Just have a look at > Dr. Strangelove or how I stopped worrying and started to love > the bomb > (or so, that's from memory) just to underline the fact. You know how the premier loves surprises! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 15:39:01 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Swiss ABM defense systems? Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:> I remember hearing a news report, CBS News > > (or one of our then Big Three Networks) back in the late 1970's where the > > USSR was developing such a system that had some sort of anti-missile device > > housed in a pyramid shaped building, but nothing more was heard about it. > > So you are probably safe to assume it was not true. Would the > US really want the USSR to know that they knew their little > secret? According to one of Viktor Suvorov's books (he is still alive and writing, though I don't recall what his real name is) the pyramid was just a dummy, giving off radar pulses occasionally but doing nothing else. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #6 ***********************************