twilight2000-digest Wednesday, January 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 004 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Campaign seetings and ideas..... Re: Campaign Settings Re: Campaign Settings Campaigning in the Pac NW Re: Campaign Settings Re: Campaign Settings Re: Campaign Settings Re: Campaign Settings Re: Campaign Settings Re: Campaign Settings Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! Re: Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! Re: Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! Canadian Involvement (Long) Re: Campaign Settings Swiss ABM defense systems? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:46:36 -0500 From: "Loonz" Subject: Re: Campaign seetings and ideas..... Hey Im no HTML writer. I can work with html and txt files. If ya ever seen my site ya know it's as simple as it gets. I was just offering a service. If it looks like work I'll have to decline due to real world lack of time. Sorry If I misled anyone. P.S. PG is Parental Guidance suggested. If your unsure wether I'd show it to my Mom then I probably not post it anyways. Loonz - -----Original Message----- From: Nis Mathiesen To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 3:01 AM Subject: Re: Campaign seetings and ideas..... > >Hiya > >>Any one with a txt file of an adventure or peice of an adventure can >send it >>too me and as long as it's PG rated then I'll post it. Gotta be PG not >>PG-13, and .TXT not . DOC, just put the credits at the beginning and >end of >>the document. > >Sorry to be asking - but what format is PG exactly?! >It is great if you would put a page to use for this - but it would also >be great if you could make some sort of form, so that one could put >suggestions directly from the webpage. This would mean that you might >get a few unsolicited hits from some braindead flooders, but it would >also mean that people not on this list would be able to contribute. >I will soon make something up in the categories: >Starters >Adventure ideas >Campaign ideas >(just suggestions for names) > >Over and out > >Sinus > > > > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Nis Mathiesen >>To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM >>Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 7:00 AM >>Subject: Re: Campaign seetings and ideas..... >> >> >>>Hiya! >>> >>>Well, I myself have been thinking about this subject. But what about >>>making a web-page somewhere with adventure hooks, starters, campaign >>>ideas and stuff like that? That would turn out to be a great source of >>>inspiration to anyone interested in contemporary war-roleplaying. >>> >>>I have got a website where this could be hosted, but I have not >>>dedicated anything to T2000 yet, so maybe a few of you with those >>>greeeat homepages would like to make such a forum?! >>> >>>Nis L. Mathiesen > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:11:56 +0100 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, sinus1@hotmail.com produced: > I myself would like to contribute to this service. I am a Dane, and as > you all know, Denmark is a neighbour country to Poland. I a T2K campaign > the organized and un-nuked Denmark might be a sanctuary for players - ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I shall quote a bit from Twilight v1.0: [The nuclear exchange in 1997]: First, military targets were hit. Then industrial targets clearly vital to the war effort. Then economic targets of military importance. Then transport and communication, oil fields and refineries. The major industrial and oil centers in neutral states, to prevent their possible use by the other side. Numerous warheads were aimed at logistical stockpiles and command control centers of the armies in the field. Almost accidentally, the civilian political command structure was first decimated, then eliminated. [...] Add in the very cold winter of 1997-98 (15% civilian casualties in industrialized nations up to then), the practically complete destruction of communication and transportation (and food distribution) by then. Guess plague, thyphus, cholera and so on do cross the borders (50% global casualty rates). France and Belgium are said to be the least hit in Europe (and are guarded :-) So, at least from that point of history, there is little chance that a Denmark still exists the same way. Sorry. But then my country is not off better. The free city of Krakow, however, is the haven you are looking for. (Or probably not.) - -Wolfgang - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:19:09 -0800 From: Chris Callahan Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Greetings All: Mark Oliver wrote: > I e-mailed a few days ago asking if people thought it would be a good idea > if a collection was made of people who would provide information on where > they live to other GMs. ... > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bunker/5224/rpg/t2k/t2k.html Last year the idea to set up a player/referee registry was put forth. Only four people ever asked to have their contact information posted (and that figure includes me :O ) The registry, such as it is, can be found at: http://www.gamepla.net/arclight/players.html The rest of the site has been neglected for almost two years (Even the domain name has changed since I last updated the site, from techrefuge.com to gampl.net. Jeez.) FWIW, - -C - -- #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# Chris Callahan: hector@gamepla.net Arclight: http://www.gamepla.net/arclight/ #*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*#*# "The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment." --Robert Maynard Hutchins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:14:21 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Campaigning in the Pac NW As far as 'regional advisors', I'd be more than happy to share my knowledge about Oregon & Washington, particularly the Portland/Seattle corridor. In view of the not-so-successful Soviet actions in that area (which I haven't found very good coverage in any sourcebooks), it seems like a GM would have a lot of room to be creative. I know the Puget Sound/Seattle area got nuked pretty badly (lots of naval facilities), but Oregon is almost free of US Gov't facilities, so it didn't get targeted much. Anyway, let me know if you want any info.... S2000 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:19:12 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Yes, I would have to agree that Denmark probably did suffer a fair amount of attack by the Pact, as it did declare war on the Soviets and campaign against them from 97 on to just short of 2000 when the Jutland Division made its way back towards Denmark. - ---Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: > > Hi! > > Trying to kill the keyboard, sinus1@hotmail.com produced: > > I myself would like to contribute to this service. I am a Dane, and as > > you all know, Denmark is a neighbour country to Poland. I a T2K campaign > > the organized and un-nuked Denmark might be a sanctuary for players - > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > I shall quote a bit from Twilight v1.0: > > [The nuclear exchange in 1997]: > First, military targets were hit. Then industrial targets > clearly vital to the war effort. Then economic targets of > military importance. Then transport and communication, > oil fields and refineries. The major industrial and > oil centers in neutral states, to prevent their possible > use by the other side. Numerous warheads were aimed at > logistical stockpiles and command control centers of the > armies in the field. Almost accidentally, the civilian > political command structure was first decimated, then > eliminated. [...] > > Add in the very cold winter of 1997-98 (15% civilian casualties > in industrialized nations up to then), the practically > complete destruction of communication and transportation (and > food distribution) by then. Guess plague, thyphus, cholera > and so on do cross the borders (50% global casualty rates). > France and Belgium are said to be the least hit in Europe (and > are guarded :-) > > So, at least from that point of history, there is little chance > that a Denmark still exists the same way. Sorry. But then my > country is not off better. > > The free city of Krakow, however, is the haven you are looking > for. (Or probably not.) > > -Wolfgang > > -- > PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". > Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. > How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: > http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:28:57 -0700 From: Rogue09 Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Josh Baumgartner wrote: > > Yes, I would have to agree that Denmark probably did suffer a fair > amount of attack by the Pact, as it did declare war on the Soviets and > campaign against them from 97 on to just short of 2000 when the > Jutland Division made its way back towards Denmark. > An interesting webpage link for people wanting to determine the radius of destruction for nuclear strikes. It also does fallout as well which makes it handy for calcualting fatalities for that as well, I don't know if it covers every continent but it's worth a try. http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~johnhe/g36.html Anyone here like me in the Rockies of Colorado? That's an area which is always amusing in Twilgiht, what with MILGOV being here and all. T.R. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:37:48 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Campaign Settings I think old Rouge made a bo-bo with the Cut and Paste for that web site... Here it is... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html Have fun blowing yourself, and your friends up! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:53:49 CET From: "Nis Mathiesen" Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Hiya! A little reply. First about what the T2K manual (ver 2.2) says: (Quoted loosely from the top of my head, for the exact word I'd have to check my "bible"): First about Denmarks engagement in the war: "However, Denmark and XXXX (some other Nato country) did not get involved in the war". - --> That means: that DK has not officially been to war. (about Scandinavia) "Scandinavia was not targeted in any nuclear exchange [...] broad regions in the south count as organized) - --> That means: no nuked areas. IF any areas in DK were nuked, it would be some of the big Shipyards and the refinery on Stigsnaes. I agree that Dk would be hit by nuclear debris, diseases and all that crap - but according to the book (at least ver. 2.2) it is organized and not nuked. I must say that I don't know anything about a Jutland division - where did you read that (and is there more information about DK's involvement in the war?). Healthy and un-radiated greetings from the Danish resort: Nis Leerskov Mathiesen (I will return with the exact quotations and pagenumbers if you like). >Yes, I would have to agree that Denmark probably did suffer a fair >amount of attack by the Pact, as it did declare war on the Soviets and >campaign against them from 97 on to just short of 2000 when the >Jutland Division made its way back towards Denmark. > > > > >---Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> Trying to kill the keyboard, sinus1@hotmail.com produced: >> > I myself would like to contribute to this service. I am a Dane, >and as >> > you all know, Denmark is a neighbour country to Poland. I a T2K >campaign >> > the organized and un-nuked Denmark might be a sanctuary for >players - >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> I shall quote a bit from Twilight v1.0: >> >> [The nuclear exchange in 1997]: >> First, military targets were hit. Then industrial targets >> clearly vital to the war effort. Then economic targets of >> military importance. Then transport and communication, >> oil fields and refineries. The major industrial and >> oil centers in neutral states, to prevent their possible >> use by the other side. Numerous warheads were aimed at >> logistical stockpiles and command control centers of the >> armies in the field. Almost accidentally, the civilian >> political command structure was first decimated, then >> eliminated. [...] >> >> Add in the very cold winter of 1997-98 (15% civilian casualties >> in industrialized nations up to then), the practically >> complete destruction of communication and transportation (and >> food distribution) by then. Guess plague, thyphus, cholera >> and so on do cross the borders (50% global casualty rates). >> France and Belgium are said to be the least hit in Europe (and >> are guarded :-) >> >> So, at least from that point of history, there is little chance >> that a Denmark still exists the same way. Sorry. But then my >> country is not off better. >> >> The free city of Krakow, however, is the haven you are looking >> for. (Or probably not.) >> >> -Wolfgang >> >> -- >> PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". >> Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. >> How to dominate the Internet/WWW/etc? Destroy the protocols! See: >> http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html >> >*************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with >the line >> 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. >> > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:55:21 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Nis Mathiesen wrote: > Hiya! > A little reply. > First about what the T2K manual (ver 2.2) says: > (Quoted loosely from the top of my head, for the exact word I'd have to > check my "bible"): > > First about Denmarks engagement in the war: > "However, Denmark and XXXX (some other Nato country) did not get > involved in the war". > --> That means: that DK has not officially been to war. > the correct quote is "Danish and Dutch troops remained in place, still partners in NATO, but not party to war" Pg 10 bottom of middle column. but close from memory! But Denmark gets no more mention in 2.2, for more info, you need to go to the Nato Vehicle guide. (see below) > > (about Scandinavia) "Scandinavia was not targeted in any nuclear > exchange [...] broad regions in the south count as organized) > --> That means: no nuked areas. IF any areas in DK were nuked, it would > be some of the big Shipyards and the refinery on Stigsnaes. > > I agree that Dk would be hit by nuclear debris, diseases and all that > crap - but according to the book (at least ver. 2.2) it is organized and > not nuked. > > I must say that I don't know anything about a Jutland division - where > did you read that (and is there more information about DK's involvement > in the war?). > The Jutland Div, and the Slesvig RCT are both mentioned in the Nato Vehicle Guide. According to that book, Denmark declared war in Feb 97. this has not been contradicted by 2.2, so I would assume it still remains canon. the Jutland Div was mainly used under I German Corp, and then III German Corp, in poland. The Slesvig RCT was used in the southern parts of germany, and took heavy casualties attempting to retake the Alpine Passes from the Italians. > > >Yes, I would have to agree that Denmark probably did suffer a fair > >amount of attack by the Pact, as it did declare war on the Soviets and > >campaign against them from 97 on to just short of 2000 when the > >Jutland Division made its way back towards Denmark. > this ^^^ is from the Nato Veh Handbook btw... Cheers Damian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Baumgartner Subject: Re: Campaign Settings Thanks for the pointer...It seems the main book is pretty vague on Denmark's involvement...the majority of my info is from the NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook. First, from the main T2K book (2.2), p226: "Scandanavia: While nothing in Scandanavian countries was subjected to nuclear attacks, the peninsula saw considerable fighting during 1997-98 between NATO & Soviet forces. ... Most of the cities of Scandinavia are independent or insular, although broad regions in the south are organized." They don't mention Denmark in particular here in the book, and it is possible that the editors made the error (common in the US) of defining Scandanavia as only Norway/Sweden/Finland, and not including Denmark. I haven't seen anything indicating Denmark was nuked, but heavy conventional attacks at least, especially of refineries/industry, as well as naval/coast defense facilities in the islands and along the Skaggerak (sp?), are likely. In the NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook (v2), p87, it states: "Denmark: Jutland Mechanized Division: The division was brought up to full strength during the general Danish mobilization on 10 OCT 1996. In FEB 1997, Denmark declared war on the Soviet Union. "The Jutland Division was ordered into the field and came under the command of I German Corps. "It performed well during the NATO offensive in the spring of 1997. In NOV 1999, it was transferred to III German Corps and took part in the offensive into northern Poland in the Summer of 2000. "The division has since been withdrawn to Denmark." In addition it details the combat history of the 'Slesvig Regimental Combat Team' which was engaged vs. Italians in the Summer of 1997, as well as giving an Order of battle for all Danish forces. Let me know if you want/need any more info...personally, I am trying to research Canada's involvement (beyond the brief mention of the 4th Brigade in the main book). -- S2000 - ---Nis Mathiesen wrote: > > Hiya! > A little reply. > First about what the T2K manual (ver 2.2) says: > (Quoted loosely from the top of my head, for the exact word I'd have to > check my "bible"): > > First about Denmarks engagement in the war: > "However, Denmark and XXXX (some other Nato country) did not get > involved in the war". > --> That means: that DK has not officially been to war. > > (about Scandinavia) "Scandinavia was not targeted in any nuclear > exchange [...] broad regions in the south count as organized) > --> That means: no nuked areas. IF any areas in DK were nuked, it would > be some of the big Shipyards and the refinery on Stigsnaes. > > I agree that Dk would be hit by nuclear debris, diseases and all that > crap - but according to the book (at least ver. 2.2) it is organized and > not nuked. > > I must say that I don't know anything about a Jutland division - where > did you read that (and is there more information about DK's involvement > in the war?). > > Healthy and un-radiated greetings from the Danish resort: > > Nis Leerskov Mathiesen > > (I will return with the exact quotations and pagenumbers if you like). _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:09:31 CET From: "Nis Mathiesen" Subject: Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! Hiya. Well - well. Suddenly my alternative Sweitzerland (that darn spelling) is dragged into a global, nuclear war. Well, at least my players now have a chance to play Danes in the actual combat. Thanks to Damian Robinson and S2000 for this devastating news. In fact I had in mind to write some sort of material about DK's situation in the days of 2000, but I might as well forget that now - nobody want's to come to a country where the only tan they are going to get, is from the heavy radiation in the south (Denmark is not very sunny) ;-) A wierd thing is also present in the main book - the Danish/German borderline are too far NORTH, a thing which haven't been seen since 1920, but with the new information at hand, I think that this is just a printing error. Now a little question for you who who are so lucky to own the NATO vehicle book: Is "the Jutland division" described in details (there is no such things - rather a lot of units in Jutland)or what? "Det Slesvigske Fodregiment" (The Slesvig Footregiment)is real enough (one of my former players is about to become commander on an IFV). If any of you should be tempted to play a Danish character, now that we have found out that they too have RADS, you can check the following site out: http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/denmark.html on Mitch Berg's GREAT pages. In a T2K scenario, infantry would probably still use G3 rifles. Green and glowing greetings from not-that-wonderful-anymore Denmark: Nis Leerskov Mathiesen P.S.: If there is any more stuff in the NATO book, which is relevant for a Dane - and anyone felt like it - I would be immensly happy if they sent me a mail. > Thanks for the pointer...It seems the main book is pretty vague on >Denmark's involvement...the majority of my info is from the NATO >Combat Vehicle Handbook. > >First, from the main T2K book (2.2), p226: > "Scandanavia: While nothing in Scandanavian countries was subjected >to nuclear attacks, the peninsula saw considerable fighting during >1997-98 between NATO & Soviet forces. ... Most of the cities of >Scandinavia are independent or insular, although broad regions in the >south are organized." > They don't mention Denmark in particular here in the book, and it is >possible that the editors made the error (common in the US) of >defining Scandanavia as only Norway/Sweden/Finland, and not including >Denmark. > I haven't seen anything indicating Denmark was nuked, but heavy >conventional attacks at least, especially of refineries/industry, as >well as naval/coast defense facilities in the islands and along the >Skaggerak (sp?), are likely. > >In the NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook (v2), p87, it states: > "Denmark: Jutland Mechanized Division: The division was brought up >to full strength during the general Danish mobilization on 10 OCT >1996. In FEB 1997, Denmark declared war on the Soviet Union. > "The Jutland Division was ordered into the field and came under the >command of I German Corps. > "It performed well during the NATO offensive in the spring of 1997. >In NOV 1999, it was transferred to III German Corps and took part in >the offensive into northern Poland in the Summer of 2000. > "The division has since been withdrawn to Denmark." > In addition it details the combat history of the 'Slesvig Regimental >Combat Team' which was engaged vs. Italians in the Summer of 1997, as >well as giving an Order of battle for all Danish forces. > >Let me know if you want/need any more info...personally, I am trying >to research Canada's involvement (beyond the brief mention of the 4th >Brigade in the main book). > > -- S2000 > >---Nis Mathiesen wrote: >> >> Hiya! >> A little reply. >> First about what the T2K manual (ver 2.2) says: >> (Quoted loosely from the top of my head, for the exact word I'd have >to >> check my "bible"): >> >> First about Denmarks engagement in the war: >> "However, Denmark and XXXX (some other Nato country) did not get >> involved in the war". >> --> That means: that DK has not officially been to war. >> >> (about Scandinavia) "Scandinavia was not targeted in any nuclear >> exchange [...] broad regions in the south count as organized) >> --> That means: no nuked areas. IF any areas in DK were nuked, it >would >> be some of the big Shipyards and the refinery on Stigsnaes. >> >> I agree that Dk would be hit by nuclear debris, diseases and all that >> crap - but according to the book (at least ver. 2.2) it is organized >and >> not nuked. >> >> I must say that I don't know anything about a Jutland division - >where >> did you read that (and is there more information about DK's >involvement >> in the war?). >> >> Healthy and un-radiated greetings from the Danish resort: >> >> Nis Leerskov Mathiesen >> >> (I will return with the exact quotations and pagenumbers if you like). >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:24:49 +1100 From: Damian Robinson Subject: Re: Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! think nothing of it... :-{P I'll be putting the Orbat of the Danish army ala GDW, to an email directly to Nis, unless there is a huge request from the list. So ask already! Cheers Damian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:33:12 -0600 From: "ddolllaw" Subject: Re: Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! - -----Original Message----- From: Nis Mathiesen To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 6:24 AM Subject: Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! In response to Nis Mathiesen's comments about the existance of the Jutland Division. It, according to Nigel Thomas in Osprey's Elite Series "NATO Armies Today", consists of all the elements of the Danish Army's Western Command, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Military Regions (Page 7, 1987). Hope this helps. Lawstcause. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:58:16 -0500 From: "bootboy@niagara.com" Subject: Canadian Involvement (Long) I believe it was S2000 who wrote that he was working on a project to detail the Canadian involvement in the European Theatre. I'm working on a similar project myself. My findings so far (pre-war): Canadian Forces Europe Headquarters Canadian Forces Europe, CFB (Canadian Forces Base) Lahr, Germany (Another Base is Baden-Soellingen, although it isn't listed as a CFB) Formations 1st Canadian Division Forward Headquarters, Lahr 4th Canadian Mechanized Brigade (subordinate units below): 4 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Headquarters and Signal Squadron, Lahr 8th Canadian Hussars (Princess Louise's), Lahr 3rd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment, Baden-Soellingen 1 Battalion, Royal 22 Regiment (The Van-Doo's), Lahr 1st Regiment, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery, Lahr 4 Combat Engineer Regiment, Lahr 4 Service Battalion, Lahr 4 Field Ambulance, Lahr 4 Military Police Platoon, Lahr 444 Tactical Helicopter Squadron, Lahr 1st Canadian Air Division (Air Force), subordinate units: Headquarters 1 Canadian Air Division, Lahr 3 Fighter Wing, Lahr 4 Fighter Wing, Baden-Soellingen 409 Tactical Fighter Squadron, Baden-Soellingen 421 Tactical Fighter Squadron, Baden-Soellingen 439 Tactical Fighter Squadron, Baden-Soellingen 1 Air Maintenance Squadron, Baden-Soellingen There are other units stationed in Germany as well. I haven't yet found if they are subordinate to the Formations above, or are independent under the Headquarters Canadian Forces Europe in Lahr (I speculate that they are, as the Headquarters seems to be the controlling unit in the theatre). Units Canadian Support Group - Forward Mobile Support Unit, Lahr Canadian Medical Group - 313 Field Hospital, Lahr and Baden-Soellingen 319 Forward Medical Depot, Lahr CFE Communications Group Headquarters, Lahr Communications Squadron, Lahr Communications Squadron, Baden-Soellingen 4th Air Defence Regiment RCA, Lahr and Baden-Soellingen 127 Air Defence Battery, Lahr 128 Air Defence Battery, Baden-Soellingen 129 Air Defence Battery, Lahr 4 Air Defence Workshop, Lahr Other Units 5 Air Movements Unit, Lahr 35 Dental Unit, CFB Lahr Canadian Forces Europe Postal Unit, CFB Lahr The source of this is a Department of Defence publication that I came across in the local library. I can't recall the title of the document, and I photocopied the list of schools, bases, Air Command units, Mobile Command units, Land Forces Central/Atlantic Militia Area/Secteur De L'est(Milice)/Prairie Militia Area/Pacific Militia Area and Maritime Command stuff that I have. I am confused about some things. The First Canadian Division is earmarked for deployment to the European Theatre (as shown by the 1st Canadian Division Forward Headquarters stationed in Lahr, and the information made public over the years to Canadian residents that care) in the event of hostilities by Warsaw Pact forces. It wasn't in the game. The actual TOE of the 1st Division is elusive as well. If the Division deployed to Europe, I think the 1st Division Headquarters and Signal Regiment (based at Kingston, Ontario) would go to link up with the Forward Headquarters already at Lahr. The 4th Brigade already in Germany would become a component unit of the Division (seems logical anyhow). A division isn't made up of a single brigade though, and I can't seem to gather more information as to what other formations would round the division out. Anyway, just in case I don't have the problem with my posting entirely cleared up yet, I'll end here. What do you think?? Ray *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:55:27 -0500 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Re: Campaign Settings I think Denmark would be one of the safer places to hide in Europe along with the other Scandinavian countries (I know Denmark is considered a part of Scandinavia), Switzerland, and most of France. Still, they would be affected by the war because trade would be down, industry would not be at 100%, and you need to keep a lot of people out of your borders. You can't take care of everyone in Europe although a lot of people would desire to migrate there, Denmark and the others would have to act like lifeboats and take on only so many people. If I was European, Scandinavia and/or Switzerland would be places I'd consider as places to hole-up if I could sneak past the border or have job skills they desire. Chuck DE KA3WRW "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. - ---------- > From: Nis Mathiesen > To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: Campaign Settings > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 3:53 AM > > Hiya! > A little reply. > First about what the T2K manual (ver 2.2) says: > (Quoted loosely from the top of my head, for the exact word I'd have to > check my "bible"): > > First about Denmarks engagement in the war: > "However, Denmark and XXXX (some other Nato country) did not get > involved in the war". > --> That means: that DK has not officially been to war. > > (about Scandinavia) "Scandinavia was not targeted in any nuclear > exchange [...] broad regions in the south count as organized) > --> That means: no nuked areas. IF any areas in DK were nuked, it would > be some of the big Shipyards and the refinery on Stigsnaes. > > I agree that Dk would be hit by nuclear debris, diseases and all that > crap - but according to the book (at least ver. 2.2) it is organized and > not nuked. > > I must say that I don't know anything about a Jutland division - where > did you read that (and is there more information about DK's involvement > in the war?). > > Healthy and un-radiated greetings from the Danish resort: > > Nis Leerskov Mathiesen > > (I will return with the exact quotations and pagenumbers if you like). message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:00:53 -0500 From: "Chuck Mandus" Subject: Swiss ABM defense systems? One of the most interesting things I've heard about Switzerland is that they supposedly have a laser based ABM system in case if anybody tried to nuke them. When I was in high school (1982 - 1985), I took German and my German teacher told us a story when he took a class over in the late 1960's, one of the stops was in Switzerland. He saw a small, wooden shack on top of a mountain and asked a military guard about it and he got a reply that "if Switzerland came under missile attack, it would open up and there was a laser cannon inside." I don't know how true the story is or how much of it is truth, but it wouldn't surprise me the least. Just some interesting fodder to add to the conversation here. Chuck DE KA3WRW "Truly those of us with brain cells are an oppressed minority..." - -- Jason Fox said after the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles had been cancelled. - ---------- > From: Nis Mathiesen > To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM > Subject: Thank you for dragging my poor country into WWIII! > Date: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 8:09 AM > > Hiya. > Well - well. Suddenly my alternative Sweitzerland (that darn spelling) > is dragged into a global, nuclear war. Well, at least my players now > have a chance to play Danes in the actual combat. > Thanks to Damian Robinson and S2000 for this devastating news. > In fact I had in mind to write some sort of material about DK's > situation in the days of 2000, but I might as well forget that now - > nobody want's to come to a country where the only tan they are going to > get, is from the heavy radiation in the south (Denmark is not very > sunny) ;-) > > A wierd thing is also present in the main book - the Danish/German > borderline are too far NORTH, a thing which haven't been seen since > 1920, but with the new information at hand, I think that this is just a > printing error. > > Now a little question for you who who are so lucky to own the NATO > vehicle book: Is "the Jutland division" described in details (there is > no such things - rather a lot of units in Jutland)or what? > "Det Slesvigske Fodregiment" (The Slesvig Footregiment)is real enough > (one of my former players is about to become commander on an IFV). > > If any of you should be tempted to play a Danish character, now that we > have found out that they too have RADS, you can check the following site > out: > http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/denmark.html > on Mitch Berg's GREAT pages. > In a T2K scenario, infantry would probably still use G3 rifles. > > Green and glowing greetings from not-that-wonderful-anymore Denmark: > > Nis Leerskov Mathiesen > > P.S.: If there is any more stuff in the NATO book, which is relevant for > a Dane - and anyone felt like it - I would be immensly happy if they > sent me a mail. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1999 #4 ***********************************