twilight2000-digest Wednesday, September 9 1998 Volume 1998 : Number 039 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #38 Version 3.0 rules I'm off to Gen Con UK for a week... Re: Version 3.0 rules Twilight:2000 Re: Version 3.0 rules RE: PBEM Twilight Re: Version 3.0 rules Re: Version 3.0 rules Re: Version 3.0 rules Re: Version 3.0 rules Re: Version 3.0 rules Re: Version 3.0 rules Re: Version 3.0 rules Re: Version 3.0 rules T2K PBEM - mail me directly! GENCON UK/Participation Games GENCON UK/Participation Games Price Lists Re: stills on the go... Re: stills on the go... Re: stills on the go... Re: stills on the go... Re: stills on the go... Re: stills on the go... Re: stills on the go... Moderator needed for mailing list Re: Price Lists ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:43:53 -0700 From: Ragnarok Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #38 Hello All! For any PBeM GMs out there, my old e-mail address was "jeremy58@earthlink.net". Unfortunately, when I switched ISPs, I lost my e-mail files and addresses. I am still interested (of course!) in playing in the two games I was active in, so IF my characters have not yet been killed off to make room for new ones, PLEASE contact me. I also lost my characters (which I had saved only as e-mail), so please send a copy to me if you have it. If not, just kill me off and I would be more than happy to revert to 'lurker' status until a slot once again becomes available (and I assure you I will not make the same mistakes again!) Thank you. - -Jeremy M. Semper Fidelis *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:21:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Curran Subject: Version 3.0 rules I'm sorry for dragging this up again but, is the new version 3.0 rules posted on-line anywhere? If not could someone e-mail me with them, I can't seem to find the original writer in my stored messages. On a different note how about a poll? How many people actually believe Yeltsin will leave office before his term is up? - - S. B. Burzmali _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 05:32:32 +0100 From: Roger Stenning Subject: I'm off to Gen Con UK for a week... Hi folks... I'm off to Gen Con UK (The UK's largest annual Role Playing Games Convention) in about fifteen to twenty hours. I'll be away until next Monday or so, so don't expect any replies from me on anything you send in my direction until shortly after I get back. Have a great week! Later! _____________________________________________________________ Cheers, Roger ICQ UIN: 7742586 (Class 'B' UK Radio Amateur, call sign G1LIW; Ex-Corporal, Royal Military Police, British Territorial Army) MURPHY was a bloody optimist. It ALWAYS goes wrong. ESPECIALLY if it's mission critical! Main RPG homepages, incorporating Millennium's End London E-Sourcebook: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/5037/ INTSUM Twilight:2000 website: http://www.abel.net.uk/~isg/index.html _____________________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 03:41:08 EDT From: Zek101@aol.com Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules i belive he will leave. p. s. i don't have 3.0 ether could you hook me up if you get them? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:52:08 -0400 From: thomas Subject: Twilight:2000 Hey any of you guys live in the Atlanta area? I am about to start up a TW:2000 campaign and I am looking for some more players. Drop me a note if you are interested. Thomas thomas@thomasd.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:27:09 -0300 From: wardlow Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules Yeltsin will leave only if he is forced out or he dies. I am not so sure he would leave if his term is up. I also would like those rule if available. Vlad Michael Curran wrote: > > > > I'm sorry for dragging this up again but, is the new version 3.0 > rules posted on-line anywhere? If not could someone e-mail me with > them, I can't seem to find the original writer in my stored messages. > > On a different note how about a poll? How many people actually > believe Yeltsin will leave office before his term is up? > > - S. B. Burzmali > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:13:06 +0200 From: "Eduardo Perez Santos" Subject: RE: PBEM Twilight Hello, I can't find this discussion in my TWILIGHT 2000 book, where are ? Maybe I miss one expansion ... >> 5 seconds times 100 people on the list (for example) is 500 seconds of >> other people's time that you've spent to save 5 seconds of yours. > >No, that's 5 seconds of each person's time. Now you're sounding like a >communist (no offence I hope). "You've wasted 500 seconds of the >people's time. Personally, when I joined this list I found that the >extensive quoting helped me to quickly get involved in the >conversation, whereas without it I would have been lost. Saludos - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Eduardo Perez Santos Madrid (Spain) - GMT+1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------ ˇˇVisita la Página Oficial del Club Dragón!! http://www.ciudadfutura.com/clubdragon. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:08:52 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules In a message dated 98-09-01 00:13:12 EDT, S.B. Burzmali writes: << I'm sorry for dragging this up again but, is the new version 3.0 rules posted on-line anywhere? If not could someone e-mail me with them, I can't seem to find the original writer in my stored messages. >> I believe you are talking about an set of rules created by a friend of mine. They were a combination of First edition and 2nd edition. If you are interested in them, please email canobeer@aol.com. By the way, I must apologize to all those who expressed interest in my TW2k pbem. Sadly, I had to postpone it due to some real life problems. However, I do intend to start up again in a few months. orrin http://members.aol.com/orrinladd/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:44:16 -0700 From: Hale Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules Michael Curran wrote: > I'm sorry for dragging this up again but, is the new version 3.0 > rules posted on-line anywhere? If not could someone e-mail me with > them, I can't seem to find the original writer in my stored messages. Versoin 3.0, who, when, & where did this come from. I haven't heard of ver3.0. Someone/anyone please elaborate. > On a different note how about a poll? How many people actually > believe Yeltsin will leave office before his term is up? Most likely he will die in office of "Natural Causes". When he leaves, however it happens, I think he will be replaced by a member of the old socialist party. With the current economic trouble in Russia they are once again ripe for socialist control. TTFN Ron Hale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:33:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Cook Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules - ---Hale wrote: > Most likely he will die in office of "Natural Causes". When he leaves, > however it happens, I think he will be replaced by a member of the old > socialist party. > With the current economic trouble in Russia they are once again ripe for > socialist control. I think that the Duma (lower house) is just going to reject Chernomyrdin's nomination three times and force elections. If Yeltsin refuses to call them, there'll be a coup attempt, and if elections are called, with the economic trouble, the socialists (or someone even worse like Zhirinovsky - Remember Crimson Tide?) will likely be elected. Michael Cook _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 17:52:41 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules At 11:44 AM 9/1/98 -0700, Hale wrote: >> On a different note how about a poll? How many people actually >> believe Yeltsin will leave office before his term is up? > >Most likely he will die in office of "Natural Causes". Not terribly likely. This isn't the Soviet Union; and while assassinations happen occasionally, they aren't very subtle (and haven't affected any top political figures). But more to the point, assassinating an unpopular figure like Yeltsin would be self-defeating--it would deprive whoever came next of popular legitimacy. Yeltsin has already said he's not going to run in 2000. Whether he runs or not is pretty much irrelevant, because no one is going to vote for him anyway. And if you think that Yeltsin is not accountable to politics, you're just plain wrong: it was political pressure that resulted in his firing two governments this year. And despite his wide powers under the current constitution, I suppose he could be forced to resign, since, if he loses all support, he'll be completely ineffective (despite his _formal_ powers, if he's got no support, he may not even be able to rely on the army and security servcies to back him--and long before that, things would be hopeless, since you can't run a country by having people stand at each other's back with guns, forcing them to behave). He could also be impeached. And note that, despite some plroblems in Russia with respecting the constution and laws very strictly, they DO follow the most important rules, and the elections are counted fairly and the results abided by (well, the national elections anyway--the situation in some of the regions is really, really not good). >When he leaves, >however it happens, I think he will be replaced by a member of the old >socialist party. >With the current economic trouble in Russia they are once again ripe for >socialist control. There's no "socialist" party in Russia, at least not by that name (and IIRC Russia, unlike some of the satellites, never claimed to have reached a state of "actually existing socialism"). They've always called themselves "Communists", and the current name of the party is the "Communist Party of the Russian Federation". They are indeed the most popular party in Russia at the moment, but they're not going to be able to restore the Communist dictatorship--the Russian Federation has fragmented too badly and there are enough liberal forces (that is, people in favor of free markets and civil liberties) that a centralized dictatorship just isn't possible; even if it were, the economy has so many problems that restoring the old ecnomic system just isn't possible--remember the whole thing fell apart in the first place because the economy wasn't working, and they couldn't reform it without changing the whole system (they certainly tried to). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 17:56:56 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules At 12:33 PM 9/1/98 -0700, Michael Cook wrote: > >I think that the Duma (lower house) is just going to reject >Chernomyrdin's nomination three times and force elections. If Yeltsin >refuses to call them, there'll be a coup attempt, and if elections are >called, with the economic trouble, the socialists (or someone even >worse like Zhirinovsky - Remember Crimson Tide?) will likely be elected. > It's been several years since any took Zhironovsky seriously (and I don't think anyone ever took Crimson Tide seriously :), but Zyuganov (the Communist Party leader) is almost as nutty as Zhironovsky is--as well a a socialist he's a nationalist and has even taken up with the Orthodox Church (which is not one of your more liberal religions). Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:38:24 EDT From: Snake6283@aol.com Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules In a message dated 98-09-01 18:38:54 EDT, sdorr@ix.netcom.com writes: << There's no "socialist" party in Russia, at least not by that name (and IIRC Russia, unlike some of the satellites, never claimed to have reached a state of "actually existing socialism"). They've always called themselves "Communists", and the current name of the party is the "Communist Party of the Russian Federation". They are indeed the most popular party in Russia at the moment, but they're not going to be able to restore the Communist dictatorship--the Russian Federation has fragmented too badly and there are enough liberal forces (that is, people in favor of free markets and civil liberties) that a centralized dictatorship just isn't possible; even if it were, the economy has so many problems that restoring the old ecnomic system just isn't possible--remember the whole thing fell apart in the first place because the economy wasn't working, and they couldn't reform it without changing the whole system (they certainly tried to). >> Listlurker here, unlurking for a minute or two. I'd think that in the case above, it'd be quite possible for a party or a supranational entity (IMF?) to make promises and assurances in regard to the breadbasket, that would affect those rational people who currently would be in favor of free markets and civil liberties. It is difficult to hear what common sense is telling one to choose or vote for over the roar of an empty stomach. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 01:45:29 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules At 12:38 AM 9/2/98 EDT, Snake6283@aol.com wrote: > Listlurker here, unlurking for a minute or two. I'd think that in the >case above, it'd be quite possible for a party or a supranational entity >(IMF?) to make promises and assurances in regard to the breadbasket, that >would affect those rational people who currently would be in favor of free >markets and civil liberties. It is difficult to hear what common sense is >telling one to choose or vote for over the roar of an empty stomach. That's always a possibility--then the question becomes, who do people believe? Are the promises credible? Scott Orr *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:49:58 +0300 (EDT) From: Janne Kemppi Subject: Re: Version 3.0 rules > > Most likely he will die in office of "Natural Causes". When he > leaves, > > however it happens, I think he will be replaced by a member of the old > > socialist party. > > With the current economic trouble in Russia they are once again ripe > for > > socialist control. > > I think that the Duma (lower house) is just going to reject > Chernomyrdin's nomination three times and force elections. If Yeltsin > refuses to call them, there'll be a coup attempt, and if elections are > called, with the economic trouble, the socialists (or someone even > worse like Zhirinovsky - Remember Crimson Tide?) will likely be elected. > I find both of these observations rather far fetched. Reason for this is that not so many Duma people actually want re-election that is probably very dicey situation due extraordinary hardships suffered by voters. Despite this Communists can be quite certain that Yeltsin does not want elections either since communists have best grass-roots machinery and will of the people on their side. Yeltsins supporters would probably lose even more seats this time so allthough elections are distastefull to communists they would go through that if Yeltsin otherwise would not work with them. Deja Vu here. Zhuganov and communists play rather elaborate game of chicken in public and old fashioned backroom dealing in private. They demand concessions from Yeltsin for their support for Chernomyrdin and by felling first and second elections they finally give in at third and are happy with what they got. This probably means seats in cabinet and that some of presidential powers are given to the Duma. This is what they tried 6 months ago when Chernomyrdin was fired in the first place but back then they did not wish for elections since they calculated they'd lose parliamentary elections at that time. Zhuganov is calculating that by getting more people to the power elite now yet not being president nor prime minister gives communists good chance for 2000 elections, especially when both Yeltsin and his heir to be Tsernomyrdin have both soiled themselves in next year in trying to handle economical mess. The other power pool is the oligarchy of 15 or so richest business men in Russia. At this moment they support Yeltsin as they are somewhat fearfull of what happens to them or some of them when communists return to power. There are bitter rivalries within this sphere as well (for example between the richest man in Russia, director of Gazprom bank and mayor of Moskow who has his own bank as well). Chernomyrdin is in many ways the choice of this power elite as he is really "one of the boys in yacht club" being former director of Gazprom gas company and having very good relations with big industry and nowadays big business. The advantage of this power elite is that since they control the media they can use their consideranble influence to sway peoples minds quite well too. My own personal guess is that Chernomyrdin will be next prime minister anyways and communists get some concessions. Yeltsin will not run for 2000 (poor health) and the elections will be fought between Chernomyrdin and Zhuganov. I expect that Zhuganov wins. This is ofcourse based on concept that situation in Russia stays relatively afloat and no bigger crises explode in the meanwhile. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:24:18 -0500 From: Mitch Berg Subject: T2K PBEM - mail me directly! A brief note for those of you replying to the list regarding my Twilight PBEM campaign. Please reply directly. I get the digest version, and I sometimes go 2-3 weeks between releases. If you're interested, please write DIRECTLY to my email address (mitch@humanwaredesign.com). And try not to fight over netiquette - while the endless flame-o-ramas DO make my digests come more frequently, they're not as fun to read. Speaking of fun - ain't it great having Monkey Boy gone? Mitch Berg Humanware Design - www.humanwaredesign.com (651)644-4192 User Interface Design, Usability Analysis and Information Engineering. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:39:38 +0100 From: David Elrick Subject: GENCON UK/Participation Games On the way home from Gencon UK (where I met Roger Stenning) this weekend, I was thinking about the lack of Twilight 2000 games (or even Merc 2000) at roleplaying and wargames shows here in the UK (sorry to the non-Uk readers of this list, but I've got little hope of getting to your shows). While I was at Gencon UK, I was chatting to the guys from BITS (British Isles Traveller Support) who organise participation games and tournaments ot Traveller in all it's variants - stick with me, this gets back on topic in a moment - and it occurred to me that we could perhaps do something similar for Twilight/Merc. So, who on this list is in the UK and would be interested in writing and/or running participation and tournament scenarios at shows around this sceptred isle? I know Roger is in London, and I'm in Peterborough. Anyone? We now return you to your regularly scheduled torpor...... Dave Elrick David.Elrick@ps.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------- "Charlie Delta Two Six. Say again all after nuclear. Over." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:39:38 +0100 From: David Elrick Subject: GENCON UK/Participation Games On the way home from Gencon UK (where I met Roger Stenning) this weekend, I was thinking about the lack of Twilight 2000 games (or even Merc 2000) at roleplaying and wargames shows here in the UK (sorry to the non-Uk readers of this list, but I've got little hope of getting to your shows). While I was at Gencon UK, I was chatting to the guys from BITS (British Isles Traveller Support) who organise participation games and tournaments ot Traveller in all it's variants - stick with me, this gets back on topic in a moment - and it occurred to me that we could perhaps do something similar for Twilight/Merc. So, who on this list is in the UK and would be interested in writing and/or running participation and tournament scenarios at shows around this sceptred isle? I know Roger is in London, and I'm in Peterborough. Anyone? We now return you to your regularly scheduled torpor...... Dave Elrick David.Elrick@ps.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------- "Charlie Delta Two Six. Say again all after nuclear. Over." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:48:36 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Price Lists Hello All, I just recently acquired the 1st ed. boxed set (again). I remember having the prices for food and fuels in the game, but try as I might I have been unable to find them again. Could one of y'all tell me what they are, or where to find them? It would really be appreciated. Also, one of my players is in the army and has been telling me about changes in the HMMWV, M16-A2, and a new version of the Web gear. Could someone who has knowledge on the actual statistics/information about these post this so I can make the appropriate changes in my game? I have reasons to suspect the integrity of information that my player is giving me on these things, but I know that the HMMWV and A2 were written in Twilight before they became actually military hardware- so I know that a great deal of difference may have occurred between the "projected" and "actual" items. Another question... I have always allowed a person to put a small still in a 1-ton cargo trailer and have it operating while they were on the road. Is this possible in reality? Why/Why not? Finally, the RDF Sourcebook has charts that detail the Special Forces a lot better than they were in the initial boxed set. Would anyone be willing to part with this information? I have ordered the book, but it will take awhile to get here and I have another game before then. Also, since GDW "went under" I don't know if copyright is a problem under those conditions, so if I'm asking for something illegal here- somebody please let me know, and accept my apologies. Thanks. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:55:45 EDT From: Grimace997@aol.com Subject: Re: stills on the go... I'm going to respond only about the still being on the trailer, as I'm not sure on all of the other questions. It has always been my impression that a still requires a heat source, that is, a fire in order to move the process along towards alcohol. Now I don't see a problem with this on a nice paved road, but moving cross country or over rough roads would probably not be real conducive to either keeping the fire stocked with wood, nor with keeping the fire situated where it needs to be. Hit a bump, and your logs or whatever bounce all over, maybe falling out of the trailer, perhaps igniting something else in the trailer. You never know. Not only that, but I'm positive that a still makes at least some smoke, so during the day, you'll have a constant arrow pointing to the character's position, no matter where you go. And travel at night will always have the firelight visible like a little tracer light going whereever you go. That's how I would handle the situation. They may be able to do it, but it might be less practicle than they would think. Just my two cents. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:35:20 -0300 From: wardlow Subject: Re: stills on the go... Unless the stills utilize electric elements powered by generator or vehicle electric system Vlad Grimace997@aol.com wrote: > I'm going to respond only about the still being on the trailer, as I'm not > sure on all of the other questions. > > It has always been my impression that a still requires a heat source, that is, > a fire in order to move the process along towards alcohol. Now I don't see a > problem with this on a nice paved road, but moving cross country or over rough > roads would probably not be real conducive to either keeping the fire stocked > with wood, nor with keeping the fire situated where it needs to be. Hit a > bump, and your logs or whatever bounce all over, maybe falling out of the > trailer, perhaps igniting something else in the trailer. You never know. > > Not only that, but I'm positive that a still makes at least some smoke, so > during the day, you'll have a constant arrow pointing to the character's > position, no matter where you go. And travel at night will always have the > firelight visible like a little tracer light going whereever you go. > > That's how I would handle the situation. They may be able to do it, but it > might be less practicle than they would think. > > Just my two cents. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:33:52 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: stills on the go... >It has always been my impression that a still requires a heat source, that is, >a fire in order to move the process along towards alcohol. Now I don't see a >problem with this on a nice paved road, but moving cross country or over rough >roads would probably not be real conducive to either keeping the fire stocked >with wood, nor with keeping the fire situated where it needs to be. Hit a >bump, and your logs or whatever bounce all over, maybe falling out of the >trailer, perhaps igniting something else in the trailer. You never know. >Not only that, but I'm positive that a still makes at least some smoke, so >during the day, you'll have a constant arrow pointing to the character's >position, no matter where you go. And travel at night will always have the >firelight visible like a little tracer light going whereever you go. >That's how I would handle the situation. They may be able to do it, but it >might be less practicle than they would think. >Just my two cents. I imagined using Electronics to somehow provide heat through a military cooker, or some other type of heating element eliminating the need for an actual fire. Thoughts? I definitely see the smoke as a problem though- good point. Thanks. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:49:10 +1200 From: "NaT" Subject: Re: stills on the go... Distillation is a simple process 3 step process 1. Mash up some vegetable material, either small chunks of trees (i.e. leaves etc), grain or as is normally done grapes. 2. Ferment the material by letting it sit in its own juices. I have never tried to ferment methanol, but for grapes yeast is also added. Details details. The fermentation needs no heat and takes several days to get a little bit of alcohol created inthe mash 3. Boil the mash. Ever noticed how alcohol is very cold when you drop it on your skin. This is because it turns to vapor at a much lower temperature than water. So if you heat a mix of water and alcohol at the right temperature, only the alcohol will turn to steam. If you then collect the steam you will have pure alcohol. The point of this is that only the distilling (and perhaps the mashing stage) of the process needs to be done when not moving. NaT percival@ihug.co.nz Nathaniel Bacchus http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~percival *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 17:14:33 -0400 From: Matt Geisler Subject: Re: stills on the go... Most of the time a still would be simply incubating the yeast or bacteria which turn the raw material into sourmash. This process takes 2-3 days at best (1 week with a poorly growing culture). Turning the sourmash into 95% ethanol/methanol requires only a hour or so with a huge heat source. Electrical heating is simply not sufficient to concentrate the alcohol. You will burn more fuel than you will create in an alcohol powered generator hooked up to a still. You need wood/coal, and a lot of it. Matt wardlow wrote: > Unless the stills utilize electric elements powered by generator or vehicle > electric system > Vlad > > Grimace997@aol.com wrote: > > > I'm going to respond only about the still being on the trailer, as I'm not > > sure on all of the other questions. > > > > It has always been my impression that a still requires a heat source, that is, > > a fire in order to move the process along towards alcohol. Now I don't see a > > problem with this on a nice paved road, but moving cross country or over rough > > roads would probably not be real conducive to either keeping the fire stocked > > with wood, nor with keeping the fire situated where it needs to be. Hit a > > bump, and your logs or whatever bounce all over, maybe falling out of the > > trailer, perhaps igniting something else in the trailer. You never know. > > > > Not only that, but I'm positive that a still makes at least some smoke, so > > during the day, you'll have a constant arrow pointing to the character's > > position, no matter where you go. And travel at night will always have the > > firelight visible like a little tracer light going whereever you go. > > > > That's how I would handle the situation. They may be able to do it, but it > > might be less practicle than they would think. > > > > Just my two cents. > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:17:24 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: stills on the go... >Unless the stills utilize electric elements powered by generator or vehicle >electric system >Vlad On this end, does anyone have any idea on how much fuel consumption or electrical power this would take? Could a vehicle actually provide enough power while running to do this? Other than electrical elements, I was thinking that a "contained" fuel tank- like Coleman stoves might work too. Later. Jesse. vanquer@softhome.net ICQ. 8004143 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:45:18 -0300 From: wardlow Subject: Re: stills on the go... Even post World War II vehicles had an electric water heaters for coffee and food on the go. All the ones I drove in the 70's with the armoured corp did. Vlad Jesse LaBranche wrote: > >Unless the stills utilize electric elements powered by generator or vehicle > >electric system > >Vlad > > On this end, does anyone have any idea on how much fuel consumption or > electrical power this would take? Could a vehicle actually provide enough > power while running to do this? > Other than electrical elements, I was thinking that a "contained" fuel tank- > like Coleman stoves might work too. > > Later. > > Jesse. > vanquer@softhome.net > ICQ. 8004143 > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 14:50:00 -0400 From: Rob Miracle Subject: Moderator needed for mailing list Due to work demands, Sean Reynolds, the moderator for the Greyhawk Mailing list is having to step back. Any one interested in assuming his role should contact him at: skreyn@wizards.com Thanks for the interruption. Rob http://www.mpgn.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:25:20 +0200 From: Wolfgang Weisselberg Subject: Re: Price Lists Hi! Trying to kill the keyboard, vanquer@softhome.net produced: > Hello All, > > I just recently acquired the 1st ed. boxed set (again). I remember > having the prices for food and fuels in the game, but try as I might I have > been unable to find them again. They are on the Twilight: 2000 Errata (paper)page, dated 8/8/85. It should be in your box: it's a single sheet, filled on one side, the other's empty. There it's stated that Food (per kg) MRE domestic food wild food (S/R) (V/V) (C/C) $8 $4 $2 Fuel (per liter) gas avgas diesel ethanol methanol (R/R) (R/R) (R/R) (C/C) (V/V) $48 $60 $40 $8 $4 along with many other corrections. > I have reasons to suspect the integrity of information that my player is > giving me on these things, but I know that the HMMWV and A2 were written in > Twilight before they became actually military hardware- so I know that a > great deal of difference may have occurred between the "projected" and > "actual" items. Hmmm, since TW: 2K is not the real world (well, we have no war right now, do we)? you could easily say that it's an alternate reality, close, but not completely similar to our world. There these stats accurately describe the humvee etc. Or you could claim the stats are accurate enough. If your player wants the vehicles better, especially if the group owns some, he may be lying, if he just says they are different, it may be true. > Another question... I have always allowed a person to put a small still > in a 1-ton cargo trailer and have it operating while they were on the road. > Is this possible in reality? Why/Why not? Well, the players manual (V1.0) page 15, right hand side, "Distilling Alcohol" says that since wood is quite plentiful (100 Kg per period gathered, pulverized and mashed, 1/2 in winter or in non-wooded hills, 1/4 if both) a methanol still should be allowed to run full time. Additionally, the fermenting can be done while travelling: you always stop now and then, that should be enough. Distilling and gathering can be done e.g. in the evening when you don't move. After all, a small still just needs 30 Kg of input a day to produce 5 liters ... that should be doable. > Also, since GDW "went under" I don't know if copyright is a problem > under those conditions, so if I'm asking for something illegal here- > somebody please let me know, and accept my apologies. The rights to TW: 2k (and others) have been sold to Tantalus. See http://www.mpgn.com/gaming/licensing_faq.html on their stance on copyright. - -Wolfgang - -- PGP 2 welcome: Mail me, subject "send PGP-key". If you've nothing at all to hide, you must be boring. Unsolicited Bulk E-Mails: *You* pay for ads you never wanted. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe twilight2000' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1998 #39 ************************************