twilight2000-digest Friday, June 12 1998 Volume 1998 : Number 027 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Rules Question Re: Rules Question Re: Poland Re: Poland Re: Rules Question Re: Rules Question Re: Rules Question Re: Rules Question Re: Poland Re: Poland Re: Rules Question Re: Rules Question OCS Re: PBeMs Re: Rules Question Re: Rules Question My PBEM Re: Poland Cash on start Re: Cash on start Re: Cash on start Re: Rules Question Re: Rules Question Re: Cash on start The battle of Kalisz Re: Cash on start Re: Rules Question Re: Poland Re: Rules Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:33:34 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Rules Question At 07:09 AM 6/11/98 -0700, Jeremy Menefee wrote: > >bell029@ibm.net wrote: > >>Are you referring to situations during wartime, such as NCO's receiving >>commissions to occupy vacnacies at the platoon and company level? Such >>practices wre QUite common in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Audie Murphy is >>one case in point. > >Yes and no. That is a field promotion. There have been *rare* cases where >enlisted personnel are sent to OCS during peacetime. It's certainly an honor, but I don't think it's "rare", and there are regular procedures for doing it, usually in the case of young individuals just starting their careers--indeed, turning enlisted personnel into officers is probably the main purpose of having OCS (though I suppose what you're referring to is that most of the people in OCS will come straight out of boot camp?). Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:42:18 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Rules Question At 07:07 AM 6/11/98 PDT, Kenth Eriksson wrote: >IMO..,It's easier to enter Mliltary Academy than OCS. After all isn't >OCS something you choose in enlistment and I would think the military >would have greater selection to OCS. > >On the other hand Military Academy, like West Point and stuff is like a >school, a university. Ok..Not your average UCLA but still a school. And >if you're rich enough you can send your kid through any school. >Shouldn't this apply to the Military Academys too, after all they need >funding too. Which all means if you're rich you can get a fairly "dumb" >kid through West Point.(I'm not a military man, and a Swede. So I might >be wrong. Don't flame me, just tell me so.) > In the U.S., the service academies are real colleges (probably accredited and everything), and give out real degrees in a variety of subjects (concentrated in engineering, but including political science, business, history, even English). They also have extremely good students (the selection is partly on academics and partly on athletics and leadership skills, but they have a LOT of applicants), though I'm not sure their teaching is actually any better than that found in any good-quality college or university, and probably not as good as that found in many places--certainly since they're fairly small they have limited class offerings, and the cultural diversity is not quite what you'd find elsewhere. >This would indicate that officers in movies like Aliens. Would have gone >to Military Academy or ROTC. Since they make all these stupid things. >And the Corporal ends up saving the entire platoon. ;-) > 2nd Lieutenants make dumb decisions because they're new. Making dumb decisions (provided you survive) is how you learn thing and become a competent 1st Lieutenant and ultimately, maybe, a general....Likewise you wouldn't trust a private straight out of boot camp to do something intelligent. In the U.S. at least lieutenants (that is, platoon commanders) aren't even given much real responsibility (not more than they can handle, anyway), and the real administrative and tactical work is mostly done at the company level. Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:54:56 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Poland At 06:02 PM 6/11/98 +0200, Marcin Segit wrote: >Hi all! > >I'm from Poland and I wonder how much you know about my country which is >TW2K main theatre /at least in the rulebook/. I'm talking about town >maps, geography more detailed than in usual geography atlas and similar >things. >I'm just curious... > Oczywiscie, nic nie znam! Mysle, ze najwiecej ludzi mam tolko rzeczy z GDW. Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:05:34 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Poland I wrote: >Oczywiscie, nic nie znam! Mysle, ze najwiecej ludzi mam tolko rzeczy z GDW. That should of course be "nic nie wiem"...but of course, I've already proved my point, which is that "I don't know anything." :) Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:10:26 -0500 From: Tom Floyd Subject: Re: Rules Question Unfortunately, no , most do not come out of boot camp. In fact, you must be at least an E-6 and br recommended for E-7 to be considered for OCS (at least in the Navy). Scott David Orr wrote: > At 07:09 AM 6/11/98 -0700, Jeremy Menefee wrote: > > > >bell029@ibm.net wrote: > > > >>Are you referring to situations during wartime, such as NCO's receiving > >>commissions to occupy vacnacies at the platoon and company level? Such > >>practices wre QUite common in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Audie Murphy is > >>one case in point. > > > >Yes and no. That is a field promotion. There have been *rare* cases where > >enlisted personnel are sent to OCS during peacetime. > > It's certainly an honor, but I don't think it's "rare", and there are > regular procedures for doing it, usually in the case of young individuals > just starting their careers--indeed, turning enlisted personnel into > officers is probably the main purpose of having OCS (though I suppose what > you're referring to is that most of the people in OCS will come straight > out of boot camp?). > > Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:26:33 -0400 From: "Who me?" Subject: Re: Rules Question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BD955E.143ABC60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! I just thought that I'd be throwing in a little opinion of mine = regarding an obscure rule, not sparking a full-fledged debate. 8-) I think I didn't present my point well enough, so I'll see if I can = address the confusion. I have interpreted the rules of the game like this: A character entering into the Military Academy Education Career does so = with the intent to become a career officer of his/her nation's armed = forces (military). This seems logical. A character entering into the ROTC option of the Undergraduate = University Education Career is a different situation. If the character = is trying to take advantage of the rules, he joins because: a) it gives = the character some military skills; b) it gives the character a few = extra dollars in which to purchase equipment; and c) the character = starts the game with a rank. I choose to look at ROTC a different way. I look at it from real life = example. A person enters into ROTC generally because some of the = education is payed for by the military (here in Canada it is anyway) and = all the person is required to do is serve a set amount of time within = the armed forces (which I believe is a term in the game, but in Canada = in real life it is 5 years). It makes for a more interesting character = background in looking at it from this point of view, eh? Now in the case of OCS, a soldier already serving in the ranks in = allowed an opportunity, if qualified and talented enough, to advance a = hell of a lot quicker than he would by ordinary means. Take into = consideration that I'm not a serviceman and I don't have first hand = knowledge of this, but I'm going by the things I've read in books and by = conversing with people who have first hand knowledge of military = practices. I have read that some members of the military have enlisted = and entered at the bottom of the totem pole, then through their own = actions and with a little help from smooching superior butt in some = cases, have been selected by the superior officer to attend Officer = Candidate School. In some of the cases I've read about, the person lied = about their age to join the military and never graduated from high = school and were still selected for OCS primarily because they showed a = natural ability for leadership and/or tactics. =20 My argument for the attribute scores is, if such high scores were needed = to enter OCS (education and intelligence both 7+), why wouldn't the = character just enter Military Academy instead of starting off with = enlisted rank (and pay). I believe that the intention of OCS was to = find and utilize talented personnel from the ranks already serving who = for one reason or the other didn't qualify for entrance into the = Military Academy, and therefore should only need 7 or better in total = education and intelligence scores. =20 I do like the idea about characters needing a perfect promotion roll in = order to qualify for OCS. Brilliant, wish I would've thought of that. Situations in wartime where an NCO would recieve officer rank, wouldn't = that be a brevet commission? - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BD955E.143ABC60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow! I just thought that I'd be throwing in a = little=20 opinion of mine regarding an obscure rule, not sparking a full-fledged=20 debate. 8-) I think I didn't present my point well enough, so = I'll see if=20 I can address the confusion. I have interpreted the rules of the = game like=20 this: A character entering into the = Military Academy=20 Education Career does so with the intent to become a career officer of = his/her=20 nation's armed forces (military). This seems logical. A character entering into the ROTC = option of the=20 Undergraduate University Education Career is a different = situation. If the=20 character is trying to take advantage of the rules, he joins because: a) = it=20 gives the character some military skills; b) it gives the = character a few=20 extra dollars in which to purchase equipment; and c) the character = starts=20 the game with a rank. I choose to look at ROTC a different = way. =20 I look at it from real life example. A person enters into ROTC = generally=20 because some of the education is payed for by the military (here in = Canada it is=20 anyway) and all the person is required to do is serve a set amount of = time=20 within the armed forces (which I believe is a term in the game, but in = Canada in=20 real life it is 5 years). It makes for a more interesting = character=20 background in looking at it from this point of view, eh? Now in the case of OCS, a soldier = already=20 serving in the ranks in allowed an opportunity, if qualified and = talented=20 enough, to advance a hell of a lot quicker than he would by ordinary=20 means. Take into consideration that I'm not a serviceman and I = don't have=20 first hand knowledge of this, but I'm going by the things I've read in = books and=20 by conversing with people who have first hand knowledge of military=20 practices. I have read that some members of the military have = enlisted and=20 entered at the bottom of the totem pole, then through their own actions = and with=20 a little help from smooching superior butt in some cases, have been = selected by=20 the superior officer to attend Officer Candidate School. In some = of the=20 cases I've read about, the person lied about their age to join the = military and=20 never graduated from high school and were still selected for OCS = primarily=20 because they showed a natural ability for leadership and/or = tactics. =20 My argument for the attribute scores = is, if such=20 high scores were needed to enter OCS (education and intelligence both = 7+), why=20 wouldn't the character just enter Military Academy instead of starting = off with=20 enlisted rank (and pay). I believe that the intention of OCS was = to find=20 and utilize talented personnel from the ranks already serving who for = one reason=20 or the other didn't qualify for entrance into the Military Academy, and=20 therefore should only need 7 or better in total education and = intelligence=20 scores. I do like the idea about characters = needing a=20 perfect promotion roll in order to qualify for OCS. Brilliant, = wish I=20 would've thought of that. Situations in wartime where an NCO = would recieve=20 officer rank, wouldn't that be a brevet = commission? - ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BD955E.143ABC60-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:43:48 -0700 From: Jeremy Menefee Subject: Re: Rules Question - --------------B6B3A9BB3D1D5B36E9E370C4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks *he says all full of himself* :-) Also, yes, not a full commission. At least, not until ratified by someone, I believe by Congress... anyone know for sure? - -Jeremy M. Semper Fidelis Who me? wrote: > I do like the idea about characters needing a perfect promotion roll > in order to qualify for OCS. Brilliant, wish I would've thought of > that. Situations in wartime where an NCO would recieve officer rank, > wouldn't that be a brevet commission? - --------------B6B3A9BB3D1D5B36E9E370C4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks *he says all full of himself* :-) Also, yes, not a full commission. At least, not until ratified by someone, I believe by Congress... anyone know for sure? -Jeremy M. Semper Fidelis Who me? wrote: I do like the idea about characters needing a perfect promotion roll in order to qualify for OCS. Brilliant, wish I would've thought of that. Situations in wartime where an NCO would recieve officer rank, wouldn't that be a brevet commission? - --------------B6B3A9BB3D1D5B36E9E370C4-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:49:52 -0700 From: Jeremy Menefee Subject: Re: Rules Question Hmmm... are you sure? I had presumed that the Navy and USMC operated similarly, and I may be mistaken. However, in my case, my CO had already gotten an OCS slot available for me... the procedure was something like this; #1 - Serve two years #2 - go to college for 4 yrs, paid for by the USMC while being paid my rate #3 - upon receiving degree, go to Ociffer Skool :) #4 - Six to seven years in, become an idiot butter-bars. Obviously, they want you to go career if you do this. I might possibly be thinking of some other procedure however, and if so, please help me pull my head out and set me straight. :) - -Jeremy M. Semper Fidelis Tom Floyd wrote: > Unfortunately, no , most do not come out of boot camp. In fact, you must be at > least an E-6 and br recommended for E-7 to be considered for OCS (at least in > the Navy). > > Scott David Orr wrote: > > > At 07:09 AM 6/11/98 -0700, Jeremy Menefee wrote: > > > > > >bell029@ibm.net wrote: > > > > > >>Are you referring to situations during wartime, such as NCO's receiving > > >>commissions to occupy vacnacies at the platoon and company level? Such > > >>practices wre QUite common in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Audie Murphy is > > >>one case in point. > > > > > >Yes and no. That is a field promotion. There have been *rare* cases where > > >enlisted personnel are sent to OCS during peacetime. > > > > It's certainly an honor, but I don't think it's "rare", and there are > > regular procedures for doing it, usually in the case of young individuals > > just starting their careers--indeed, turning enlisted personnel into > > officers is probably the main purpose of having OCS (though I suppose what > > you're referring to is that most of the people in OCS will come straight > > out of boot camp?). > > > > Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:18:17 -0700 From: Jeremy Menefee Subject: Re: Poland 'Bout the same here :) Anthony Kim wrote: > I can say with confidence that I'm the only non-Polish person > in my area that can point to Nowy Huta on a map. :) > > -Tony Kim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:15:43 -0700 From: Jeremy Menefee Subject: Re: Poland I unfortunately know very little. I used to have several different atlases, some of which included basic maps of major cities, but I no longer even have that. Sorry. - -JM Semper Fidelis Marcin Segit wrote: > Hi all! > > I'm from Poland and I wonder how much you know about my country which is > TW2K main theatre /at least in the rulebook/. I'm talking about town > maps, geography more detailed than in usual geography atlas and similar > things. > I'm just curious... > > Marcin > > -- > May the Force be with You > - Luke Skywalker > > Marcin Segit > ICQ# 13274376 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:51:43 -0700 From: Jeremy Menefee Subject: Re: Rules Question Scott David Orr wrote: > At 07:09 AM 6/11/98 -0700, Jeremy Menefee wrote: > > > >bell029@ibm.net wrote: > > > >>Are you referring to situations during wartime, such as NCO's receiving > >>commissions to occupy vacnacies at the platoon and company level? Such > >>practices wre QUite common in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Audie Murphy is > >>one case in point. > > > >Yes and no. That is a field promotion. There have been *rare* cases where > >enlisted personnel are sent to OCS during peacetime. > > It's certainly an honor, but I don't think it's "rare", and there are > regular procedures for doing it, usually in the case of young individuals > just starting their careers--indeed, turning enlisted personnel into > officers is probably the main purpose of having OCS (though I suppose what > you're referring to is that most of the people in OCS will come straight > out of boot camp?). > > Scott Orr Hmm... In the Marine Corps, perhaps due to it's small size, it is actually rare. I won't get into a discussion of the relative merits of branches of service ;-) Indeed, in the USMC those who are selected to go to OCS usually are selected right out of boot as you suggest, though due to limited number of openings, they often are closely observed for perhaps as long as a year or two before they actually go... the size of the USMC dramatically changes a lot of the SOPs as compared to the Army, I imagine, though the end result is similar :-) Perhaps another reason for this is the appalling discharge rate of first-year enlisted personnel. Since the gov.'t has decided to listed to concerned mommies instead of concerned combat veterans, we are limited in the number of 'bad apples' we can wash out right in boot camp. Thus, we got around it by simply getting rid of anyone with questionable marks in their SRB if they commited medium-to-severe infractions. Too bad, it's not like the days when the marines lived for the "three F's" of life. However, the discharge rate (including the unnofficially mandatory 15% out of boot) for first year enlisted sometimes reaches 50% - thereby creating openings for those more deserving. Economy of space, basically. Hope y'all find this interesting! - -Jeremy M Semper Fidelis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:47:58 EDT From: Grimace997@aol.com Subject: Re: Rules Question In a message dated 98-06-11 19:21:41 EDT, you write: << My argument for the attribute scores is, if such high scores were needed to enter OCS (education and intelligence both 7+), why wouldn't the character just enter Military Academy instead of starting off with enlisted rank (and pay). I believe that the intention of OCS was to find and utilize talented personnel from the ranks already serving who for one reason or the other didn't qualify for entrance into the Military Academy, and therefore should only need 7 or better in total education and intelligence scores. << I don't think everyone that joins the military wants to be an officer. Perhaps what that is indicating is that a person who has the ability, and didn't have the desire initially, could still have a chance to become an officer. The reasoning behind it being higher, is that the military actually KNOWS how good you are, as you've been serving with them. That way a character can still become an officer after being in enlisted, without the "battlefield promotion" which does not really exist in the games terms. (At least as far as going from enlisted to officer.) >> I do like the idea about characters needing a perfect promotion roll in order to qualify for OCS. Brilliant, wish I would've thought of that. Situations in wartime where an NCO would recieve officer rank, wouldn't that be a brevet commission? >> I like the idea of the die rolls too, but in a pinch, the 7 and 7 will do. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:55:13 -0700 From: Jeremy Menefee Subject: OCS Amazing. I have read mssgs from Army, from Navy, from people in countries other than the U.S., and of course my own... and the parameters seem different for each and every one of them! ;-) - -Jeremy M Semper Fidelis ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:41:28 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: PBeMs In a message dated 98-06-11 09:43:48 EDT, Jeremy M. writes: << Is anyone out there currently running PBeM campaigns? -Jeremy M. Semper Fidelis >> My PBEM is still going. http://members.aol.com/orrinladd/index.html Orrin Ladd ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:44:41 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Rules Question At 05:26 PM 6/11/98 -0400, Who me? wrote: >My argument for the attribute scores is, if such high scores were needed to >enter OCS (education and intelligence both 7+), why wouldn't the character just >enter Military Academy instead of starting off with enlisted rank (and pay). I >believe that the intention of OCS was to find and utilize talented personnel >from the ranks already serving who for one reason or the other didn't qualify >for entrance into the Military Academy, and therefore should only need 7 or >better in total education and intelligence scores. > I think you've got it completely backward. In the U.S. at least, getting into college isn't all that difficult--by far the majority of the population goes to college SOME--and getting into an ROTC program not that much harder (especially getting in without being on scholarship--some people do that). By contrast, only the smartest and most educable enlisted people are selected for OCS--yes, these are people who could have gone to college, but in the U.S., while most of the population gets some college eventually, poor people can't afford to go without scholarships, and they can't always get those. In the U.S., people often enlist in the military with the idea of saving up money to go to college, and in fact we have programs for exactly that, to help pay veterans' way through college--it's a big recruiting point. Also, a lot of people feel they're not yet mature enough for college and that a few years in the military will help teach them discipline (not coincidentally, these are often the same people who, while bright, may not have the high school records to get a scholarship to college). Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:50:56 EDT From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: Rules Question In a message dated 98-06-11 10:24:38 EDT, Kenth Eriksson writes: << Ok..Not your average UCLA but still a school. >> average UCLA? LMAO! wait till I tell my kid brother this! Orrin Ladd Trivia Question: Where did H. Norman Schwarzkopf earn his Master's Degree? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:43:50 PDT From: "Kenth Eriksson" Subject: My PBEM Now I've posted the synopsis to my PBEM. Check it out. And send me mail if you want in. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/2749/ Kenth ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:41:24 +0200 From: Marcin Segit Subject: Re: Poland Hi! > > > Oczywiscie, nic nie znam! Mysle, ze najwiecej ludzi mam tolko rzeczy z GDW. > > Scott Orr You must be a real TW2K fanatic to learn Polish ;) or...you have someone from Poland in your family :) Marcin - -- May the Force be with You - Luke Skywalker Marcin Segit ICQ# 13274376 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:31:09 +0200 From: Marcin Segit Subject: Cash on start Hi! Maybe it's old subject but... how much cash your players get on start? The numbers in the rulebook are too high IMO. Marcin - -- May the Force be with You - Luke Skywalker Marcin Segit ICQ# 13274376 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 03:55:51 PDT From: "Kenth Eriksson" Subject: Re: Cash on start Marcin Segit wrote: >Hi! > >Maybe it's old subject but... >how much cash your players get on start? The numbers in the rulebook are >too high IMO. I agree. But usually I don't bother with the money. I've never used, as a player, or had players use money in any of my campaigns during game time. I just let the players take whatever they feel they need, up to the point of what they can carry, or their vehicles if they have any. It can cause a problem in the case of players owning vehicles. Like if they want to load 1 ton of 5.56mmN ammo. But usually we work around the problems. I have as a player never wasted all of my money on equipment. I could never carry all the equipment I could afford. Gee...Wouldn't that be a nice problem to encounter i real life. ;-) Anyway...I don't bother much about money. If the player can motivate that he's running around with a Maverick Missile under his arm, then he's got one. This is IMO the easiest way to deal with the problems of money. Besides...If you save a lot of money to bring with you to the war. Pretty soon you'll discover that all you've got is something to build a pretty expensive fire with. ;-) Kenth ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:46:49 -0700 From: Jeremy Menefee Subject: Re: Cash on start Same here, though I as GM have always reserved the right to say no... like the time a player with a deuce-and-a-half wanted to get a half-ton of just about every medicine out there... ;-) - -Jeremy Menefee Semper Fidelis Kenth Eriksson wrote: > I agree. > > But usually I don't bother with the money. I've never used, as a player, > or had players use money in any of my campaigns during game time. > > I just let the players take whatever they feel they need, up to the > point of what they can carry, or their vehicles if they have any. > > It can cause a problem in the case of players owning vehicles. Like if > they want to load 1 ton of 5.56mmN ammo. But usually we work around the > problems. > > I have as a player never wasted all of my money on equipment. I could > never carry all the equipment I could afford. > Gee...Wouldn't that be a nice problem to encounter i real life. ;-) > > Anyway...I don't bother much about money. If the player can motivate > that he's running around with a Maverick Missile under his arm, then > he's got one. > > This is IMO the easiest way to deal with the problems of money. > > Besides...If you save a lot of money to bring with you to the war. > Pretty soon you'll discover that all you've got is something to build a > pretty expensive fire with. ;-) > > Kenth > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:59:56 -0500 From: Tom Floyd Subject: Re: Rules Question - --------------0A69DCDD8C77FA01BCB8F536 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not sure, but I believe a brevet commission isn't a permanent commission. It's only active so long as as a need exists for it during wartime. (I may be wrong, though). It seems I read or heard that somewhere while I was in the service. Jeremy Menefee wrote: > > > Thanks *he says all full of himself* :-) > > Also, yes, not a full commission. At least, not until ratified by > someone, I believe by Congress... anyone know for sure? > > -Jeremy M. > Semper Fidelis > > Who me? wrote: > >> I do like the idea about characters needing a perfect promotion >> roll in order to qualify for OCS. Brilliant, wish I would've >> thought of that. Situations in wartime where an NCO would recieve >> officer rank, wouldn't that be a brevet commission? > > - --------------0A69DCDD8C77FA01BCB8F536 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not sure, but I believe a brevet commission isn't a permanent commission. It's only active so long as as a need exists for it during wartime. (I may be wrong, though). It seems I read or heard that somewhere while I was in the service. Jeremy Menefee wrote: Thanks *he says all full of himself* :-) Also, yes, not a full commission. At least, not until ratified by someone, I believe by Congress... anyone know for sure? -Jeremy M. Semper Fidelis Who me? wrote: I do like the idea about characters needing a perfect promotion roll in order to qualify for OCS. Brilliant, wish I would've thought of that. Situations in wartime where an NCO would recieve officer rank, wouldn't that be a brevet commission? - --------------0A69DCDD8C77FA01BCB8F536-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 12:07:08 -0500 From: Tom Floyd Subject: Re: Rules Question Actually Jeremy, I think we're talking about 2 separate programs. The one that I meant is for more senior NCOs and you only go to school for about 18 months. The program you mean has a name, but for the life of me, I can't remember what it is! Also,in my program, the only school you go to is a military school (in the case of AOCS (Aviation Officer Canidate School), it's in Pensacola, Fla. Jeremy Menefee wrote: > Hmmm... are you sure? I had presumed that the Navy and USMC operated similarly, and > I may be mistaken. However, in my case, my CO had already gotten an OCS slot > available for me... the procedure was something like this; > > #1 - Serve two years > > #2 - go to college for 4 yrs, paid for by the USMC while being paid my rate > > #3 - upon receiving degree, go to Ociffer Skool :) > > #4 - Six to seven years in, become an idiot butter-bars. > > Obviously, they want you to go career if you do this. I might possibly be thinking > of some other procedure however, and if so, please help me pull my head out and set > me straight. :) > > -Jeremy M. > Semper Fidelis > > Tom Floyd wrote: > > > Unfortunately, no , most do not come out of boot camp. In fact, you must be at > > least an E-6 and br recommended for E-7 to be considered for OCS (at least in > > the Navy). > > > > Scott David Orr wrote: > > > > > At 07:09 AM 6/11/98 -0700, Jeremy Menefee wrote: > > > > > > > >bell029@ibm.net wrote: > > > > > > > >>Are you referring to situations during wartime, such as NCO's receiving > > > >>commissions to occupy vacnacies at the platoon and company level? Such > > > >>practices wre QUite common in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Audie Murphy is > > > >>one case in point. > > > > > > > >Yes and no. That is a field promotion. There have been *rare* cases where > > > >enlisted personnel are sent to OCS during peacetime. > > > > > > It's certainly an honor, but I don't think it's "rare", and there are > > > regular procedures for doing it, usually in the case of young individuals > > > just starting their careers--indeed, turning enlisted personnel into > > > officers is probably the main purpose of having OCS (though I suppose what > > > you're referring to is that most of the people in OCS will come straight > > > out of boot camp?). > > > > > > Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:17:12 EDT From: Grimace997@aol.com Subject: Re: Cash on start In a message dated 98-06-12 06:40:58 EDT, you write: << Maybe it's old subject but... how much cash your players get on start? The numbers in the rulebook are too high IMO. Marcin >> Actually, I give them the full amount that is states in the book, however I usually run them through the battle of Kalisz, and there's where they either use or lose a lot of it. If they use their heads, they make it out with a decent amount, but I figure they need it. The characters don't get resupply like the Russians do, so it's fair enough. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:55:33 +0200 From: Marcin Segit Subject: The battle of Kalisz Hi! Is there any GDW's supplement on the battle of Kalisz? Could anyone tell me something more about it? I got only 'pure' rulebook and supplements for TW2K are impossible to get in Poland. - -- May the Force be with You - Luke Skywalker Marcin Segit ICQ# 13274376 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:06:14 -0400 From: "Who me?" Subject: Re: Cash on start I started my campaign with the character's possessions consisting of the basic load, and a specialty item relevant to their background (for example, a combat engineer usually has 1 kilo of plastic explosive or a couple of sticks of dynamite as well as a basic engineers demo kit). My players and I prefer it that way. They usually find other useful or valuable things along their travels. If they really want a vehicle, they plan an ambush in an area that has patrols or troop movements and they try and steal it. Hasn't worked yet, but they keep trying 8-). My players have a real good record of using horses, which are probably a little better to have anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:18:20 -0400 From: "Who me?" Subject: Re: Rules Question The rules state that a character with intelligence and education of 7+ MAY enter OCS. So, I believe that even if a character had the prerequisites (which I still question), the choice to become an officer is ultimately the character's own (or rather the player that is creating the character, hehe). By looking at the description for Graduate University Education Career, entry required is: Undergraduate degree, Education 7+, Intelligence 7+. Now if this career is worded this way, it is demanding of strict adherence to these conditions. The section for entry into OCS states only that characters with Intelligence and Education of 7+ may enter. Look to the entry for Government Agent (Civilian Career) and examine its wording. Its comparable to that of the Graduate Career, right? So, in my opinion, entry into OCS is based on a combined score of 7+ and not on 7+ needed for both needed attributes. Make Sense? 8-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 18:58:25 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Poland At 11:41 AM 6/12/98 +0200, Marcin Segit wrote: >> Oczywiscie, nic nie znam! Mysle, ze najwiecej ludzi mam tolko rzeczy z GDW. >> >> Scott Orr > >You must be a real TW2K fanatic to learn Polish ;) >or...you have someone from Poland in your family :) > Well, perhaps TW2K had something to do with it, but I'm a political scientist studying political culture, democracy, and market economies, and I'm most interested in Poland and the Czech Republic. :) Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 19:54:35 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Rules Question At 05:18 PM 6/12/98 -0400, Who me? wrote: >The rules state that a character with intelligence and education of 7+ MAY >enter OCS. > >So, I believe that even if a character had the prerequisites (which I still >question), the choice to become an officer is ultimately the character's own >(or rather the player that is creating the character, hehe). > >By looking at the description for Graduate University Education Career, >entry required is: Undergraduate degree, Education 7+, Intelligence 7+. Now >if this career is worded this way, it is demanding of strict adherence to >these conditions. >The section for entry into OCS states only that characters with Intelligence >and Education of 7+ may enter. >Look to the entry for Government Agent (Civilian Career) and examine its >wording. Its comparable to that of the Graduate Career, right? >So, in my opinion, entry into OCS is based on a combined score of 7+ and not >on 7+ needed for both needed attributes. Make Sense? > No. You're relying far too much on consistent wording and proofreading on the part of GDW. Given GDW's track record in that area, that's not a very wise thing to do. From the standpoint of realism, as several people have pointed you have to be a very bright soldier to get into OCS. If we assume that a score of 5-6 is about average, obviously someone wtih a 3 or 4 is NOT a very bright soldier. Moreover, if we assume that the 1-10 scale is something like a percentile ranking (that is, someone with a 1 is in the lower 10% of the population, a 2 is the 11-20% range, and so on), which I don't think is an unreasonable assumption, then the "combined 7+" _really_ doens't work, because the U.S. military immediately rejects anyone with an IQ in the lower 30% of the population--they don't like dumb soldiers. Scott Orr ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1998 #27 ************************************