twilight2000-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 1998 : Number 022 The following topics are covered in this digest: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 (NDS) Re: Re: Afganistan ground tactics Re: People how to UnSubScribe Re: People Re: Rebirth Re: People Re: On life Re: People RPA and my web page Re: Rebirth Re: People Re: Rebirth Re: Re: Rebirth Re: People Re: Rebirth Re: People "bitch sessions" Re: "bitch sessions" Ships/Navy Re: Rebirth Re: Ships/Navy Re: Ships/Navy Re: Rebirth Re: Ships/Navy RPA Re: RPA Twilight Auction (Going ... Going!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:37:26 +0100 From: "Bors Robert" Subject: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 (NDS) signoff twilight2000 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 15:22:35 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Bors Robert wrote: > > signoff twilight2000 I wonder how many people we're losing compared to how many people are joining the list - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 18:03:35 -0700 From: "Randy Hale" Subject: Re: Afganistan ground tactics I recieved the fallowing message today in my email. Please take me off the mailing list. The person who this is for does not live at this house no longer my email address is rrrj@c-zone.net Thanks Randy Hale - ---------- > From: Emperor Palpatine > To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM > Subject: Re: Afganistan ground tactics > Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 5:41 AM > > Well, obviously, the Afghan rebels were guerillas, so you can draw your > own conclusions. In mountainous country like that, armor doesn't do so > well. A lot of tanks died because rebels with AT weapons would wait on > high points overlooking narrow roads and simply wait for armor to roll > by. > > The Afghans employed a lot of ambush tactics. There's very little if > any foliage in the country, but when there WAS, the rebels would usually > dig in behind it and wait for a convoy to roll by. They also employed > the terrain to their advantage. The country is hilly, which provides > lots of stuff to hide behind. > > Generally, the rebels weren't adverse to sacrificing some of their men. > These were fanatics. I've heard stories about them ambushing small > armored convoys. They'd let the lead elements roll by - BTR's, jeeps, > that sort of thing - and wait for a tank. Then, men with AT weapons > would assault the thing. If they killed it, they killed it. If they all > died, they all died. > > This is to say nothing of all the aircraft they dropped. Once the > Afghans were outfitted with Stingers, they proved to be quite capable > with them. They employed the same "hide in the rocks and shoot" tactics > that worked so well against armor. Funny thing, I just saw a PBS special > about Russian pilots. Some of their chopper pilots, vets from > Afghanistan, spoke about how the rebels would simply hide near a base > sometimes, wait for a bunch of choppers to show up, massacre many of > them, and then split. The pressure was always on the Red Army to root > these guys out of the hills. > > To my knowledge, there were few, if any, stand up battles in the > country. There were many raids by both sides. The Soviets knew what they > were in for, and they knew how to fight that type of war, though their > execution wasn't always optimal. > > Basically, think of it like Vietnam (yeah, yeah, I know it's > cliche...). The war was very much like our own experience there. Like > Vietnam, the terrain of Afghanistan dictated the tactics used by the > rebels, but essentially, the idea was the same. > > It's funny you ask, because here's an article here you might find > useful, with a link that, I hope, will provide inspiration. Good gaming. > > *** Warring Afghan factions to meet for peace talks > > Rival Afghan factions have decided to meet in Islamabad on Saturday > for initial peace talks, a U.N. official said Wednesday. James NGoby, > deputy head of the U.N. Special Mission for Afghanistan, said the > meeting between representatives of the Taleban Islamic movement and > the opposition northern alliance was expected to begin on Saturday > morning. The steering committee meeting aims to pave the way for a > larger peace commission of Islamic scholars. The Taleban control two > thirds of Afghanistan and have demanded international recognition as > the legitimate government in Kabul. See > http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2553835168-ba2 > > > > -- > Ash: I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm doing fine... > > Mirror Image: Hey Ash, we just cut up our girlfriend with a chainsaw, > does that sound "fine" to > you??? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:12:57 EDT From: Grimace997 Subject: Re: People In a message dated 98-04-24 18:36:01 EDT, you write: << I wonder how many people we're losing compared to how many people are joining the list -- Peter Vieth >> Hard to say. I think some people get on this list, expecting a certain something and finding that it isn't at all what they expected. Not everything on this list has been of interest to me, but I figure it's up to me to put in my 2 cents if I ever want anyone to talk about what I'm interested in. So I guess I'll pop a question out there: Has anyone ever done an adventure that dealt with Navy ships? I'm talking about reconstituting some of the older ships and getting them back out on the great blue. I think it would be about the only feasible option considering most of the new stuff sits on the bottom of the ocean. And along those same lines, does anyone have any ideas on what surface ships are supposed to still be operational in 2000? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:19:47 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: how to UnSubScribe To unsubscribe to this list mailto:Majordomo@lists.MPGN.COM In the body of the message type: unsubscribe twilight2000 < Peter, the first time I ever checked (I can't remember when...) membership was at 103, the next time I checked about a month or two ago, it was 130. 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From this categorization some ships are put into mothballs because they may be useful in a future conflict. A good example of this are the Battleships that have been around since the second world war. Instead of scrapping or selling the ships they are put into 'graveyards' with the idea that they could be made operational within a three month time span. They are cared for by shore duty personell from the Naval base that hosts the graveyard. The three month time span is probably somewhat unrealistic for a great majority of the ships involved. The decomissioning process requires that all armaments and computer systems be removed to land storage,as well as most of the crew comfort stuff like all the cooking apparatus and things like that. What is left is basically just the engines and periphery, boilers, fresh water condensers, and anything else that is too big to be readily removed. There is an exception to this, ships that are put on display are usually more complete, retaining more of their equipment so that the public can see it. What this means, to me at least, is that to get a ship into fighting shape for the T2k world is nearly an impossibility. The resources just aren't there in most cases. You then have a lot of logistical problems like feeding the crew, getting spare parts (stuff on ships break all the time), getting fuel, and the like. It would be a total nightmare. Ordnance is a big problem too. Then you have to think about the ship yard and qualified people to run the operation. A company of Army guys with a weekend just wouldn't cut it. I know of graveyards at Pearl Harbor, San Diego, and Norfolk. Be aware that a ship without proper maintenance can deteriorate very quickly. If you were thinking of planning this campaign for anything after about a year after the initial nuclear exchange what would be available would be just rusting hulks half sunk at their mooring. Look at the Russian sub fleet for a good example. As far as what ships will still be operational in 2000, I would say that pretty much without exception the fleet of today will be the fleet of 2000. The USN just went through a major cutback and all the old ships, like the one I was on, were done away with from the active roster. Checking the official Navy site should give you the current roster. Hope I have helped. Grimace997 wrote: So I guess I'll pop a question out there: Has anyone ever done an adventure > that dealt with Navy ships? I'm talking about reconstituting some of the > older ships and getting them back out on the great blue. I think it would be > about the only feasible option considering most of the new stuff sits on the > bottom of the ocean. And along those same lines, does anyone have any ideas > on what surface ships are supposed to still be operational in 2000? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:39:05 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: Rebirth > I say this: here we are, all fans, waiting for Tantalus to do >something. No. I'm not going to sit on my hands for thier incompetence. We should not give up until someone there is inspired to >create more Twilight material. Was the Empire State Building, the Kremlin, the book Green Eggs & Ham, or the hamburger you have for dinner created through waiting for someone else to do it? Relying on someone else's toils? by wishing it to be, were they thus created? Whilst this will very probably develop >into nothing, it wouldn't take much to imagine Oh no. I takes a great deal to imagine, if that thing you create is to be good > - and there's your new game. Tailor >the rest of the world material - which there wasn't a whole lot of, save >for some of the modules - and you've got a game. So easy as that eh? Give me a black top hat, and some magick words, and let us try! > I had a ton of material for Twilight, some of which WOULD have appeared >in Challenge. Dammit, I want it published. And I want my game back. I want, I need: pick up the wieght of Atlas Shrugged please SAUL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 23:43:01 -0400 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: People Though I don't have the nuclear targets list on hand, even if these places AREN'T on the list, realistically they'd all be nuked, and the reserve ships subsequently slagged. Pearl Harbor and Norfolk are screaming to be hit just because they're some of our biggest naval bases, ship reserve notwithstanding. San Diego... I don't THINK it was nuked, but this part of California's been an active war zone for a long time. If I remember, we were duking it out back and forth with the Mexicans. Add in the vandals and looting, scavangers, marauders, loony local warlords (and you KNOW there'd be plenty in California), and there's not much left. If you'd like to use ships on a smaller scale, Challenge magazine had a rather good feature one issue about sailing smaller ships. This included types of ships, new skills and how to apply them, rules for weather and terrain erosion, and other cool stuff. Want a photocopy? > I know of graveyards at Pearl Harbor, San Diego, and Norfolk. Be aware that a > ship without proper maintenance can deteriorate very quickly. If you were thinking > of planning this campaign for anything after about a year after the initial > nuclear exchange what would be available would be just rusting hulks half sunk at > their mooring. Look at the Russian sub fleet for a good example. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 20:51:35 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: On life Thanks. I appreciate what you were saying. Saul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 21:14:59 -0700 From: "S.R. Dennis" Subject: Re: People This is another factor as to why the reconditioning of a decommed ship is pretty unfeasable in the T2k world. As we all know, the Navies of this world pretty much are the dominant power in any conflict and would be first on the target list. The Ships carry the planes, the missiles, the radar, the big guns, and the brass. MacArthur ran Inchon from a USN ship. If I was planning a war I'd nuke the Naval bases first off. But other ships, outside the military class, might be worthy of attention by a T2k planner. Even a sailboat would be a good resource in a support or suppy role. Emperor Palpatine wrote: > Though I don't have the nuclear targets list on hand, even if these > places AREN'T on the list, realistically they'd all be nuked, and the > reserve ships subsequently slagged. Pearl Harbor and Norfolk are > screaming to be hit just because they're some of our biggest naval > bases, ship reserve notwithstanding. San Diego... I don't THINK it was > nuked, but this part of California's been an active war zone for a long > time. If I remember, we were duking it out back and forth with the > Mexicans. Add in the vandals and looting, scavangers, marauders, loony > local warlords (and you KNOW there'd be plenty in California), and > there's not much left. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 02:03:22 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: RPA and my web page I compiled my RPA program a while ago (a week and a half maybe???). It's not even close to done but the basic look is there. I'm going to put up a web page explaining how it works and what it will (or should, in theory) do. For the internet gaming part I wanted to be able to use any chatroom but that has proved too difficult, so I may just limit it to ICQ (they were thoughtful enough to release an API) and mIRC at first. What you need: Win 3.1 386 or better about 2 megs HD space if you dont have the runtime files already. Otherwise only 500k If you don't have enough RAM to run this you seriously need to upgrade. Sorry Mac users, I doubt there will ever be a Mac version. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/2946/rpa.zip (113k) If you don't already have them, you will need vbrun40016.dll and oc25.dll. Don't delete them afterwards. VB40016.DLL you can get it here: ftp://ftp.mcs.net/mcsnet.users/dschi/VBRuntimeFiles/vb40016.dll (biggie... c.900k) oc25.dll get it here: ftp://ftp.umu.se/user/home/ope-www/public/Oc25.dll (c.500k) BTW, if you are wondering about my web page, I've been too busy to do much. It does have about 10 new vehicles but none are completely finished (always something I can't find!). - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:54:53 EDT From: KAPPAABZ Subject: Re: Rebirth In a message dated 98-04-24 09:49:17 EDT, you write: >We're told that some of the original designers have a stake in >Tantalus, but if that's the case, then what are they protecting? The >game's not making any cash for them now - it's not being marketed! But there's always the possibility.................... So why give away for free, what they MAY be paid for in the future? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:55:05 EDT From: KAPPAABZ Subject: Re: People In a message dated 98-04-25 00:31:54 EDT, you write: > If I was planning a war I'd nuke the Naval bases first off. Um..... then the enemy's nuclear silos? then the command and control facilities? I'd go for those first.................... as a matter of fact Soviet doctrine instructed that enemy's nuclear deployment tagets were number 1....... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:54:58 EDT From: KAPPAABZ Subject: Re: Rebirth In a message dated 98-04-24 23:56:13 EDT, you write: >So easy as that eh? Give me a black top hat, and some magick words, and let >us try! Saul, drop me a line, we'll talk.............................. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:54:51 EDT From: KAPPAABZ Subject: Re: In a message dated 98-04-24 03:35:40 EDT, you write: >signoff twilight2000 doesn't work that way ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:37:41 -0400 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: Rebirth Saul Basgen wrote: (Rude bullshit snipped) While I don't know what your problem is, at least I'm making some creative suggestions towards how we can get our game back and how to make it feasible for today's market. All you're doing is bitching at me. Is it my fault the game went South? Grow up. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 11:12:15 -0700 From: "S.R. Dennis" Subject: Re: People Which would include most Naval bases. Ever heard of a Boomer? Did you know that there is a theater Command and Control facility at Pearl? You may have read the info about the nuclear targets but I really do doubt you thought about it too much afterwards. But I don't want to get into a classic T2k mailing list 'bitch session' over this. I offered my knowledge of the situation and that is that. If your opinion varies from mine then more power to you. I would welcome reading an opposing viewpoint that was presented in a complete manner,....... not just a few....... random lines and .......incomplete..... sentences. KAPPAABZ wrote: > In a message dated 98-04-25 00:31:54 EDT, you write: > > > If I was planning a war I'd nuke the Naval bases first off. > > Um..... > then the enemy's nuclear silos? > then the command and control facilities? > > I'd go for those first.................... > > as a matter of fact Soviet doctrine instructed that enemy's nuclear deployment > tagets were number 1....... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:22:55 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: Rebirth >Saul Basgen wrote: >(Rude bullshit snipped) Please, if it was so, tell me why? Are you above it? For what reason: did my statements have no foundation? No merit? For what reasons? It is easy to wish for things, and to wish other things away... Let us not close our eyes to one another's statements, but instead discuss them! > While I don't know what your problem is, at least I'm making some >creative suggestions towards how we can get our game back and how to >make it feasible for today's market. Offering hopes and wishes is not creative. It is nice sentiment, but hoping and wishing achieves nothing at all. Your intentions are not actions unto themselves. If we are to accomplish a thing, we must have the motive power of action behind our backs.. > All you're doing is bitching at me. >Is it my fault the game went South? Grow up. I am trying (to grow up). It was an attempt to offer a constructive critism of your beliefs, and feelings. Was it a little vile? Yes, but it is in destruction- in hoping things to be without thought or care on how they would come to be, save for through the toils of another- that I stand against, lest what would I have to do with Creating- with giving life? I certainly placed no blame on you whatever for the game's malfortunes. While you offer suggestions, you feel all I do is sit and gripe on the matter? You can tell me that my hands are not wrought with countless months of creation? To the heeded members of the list: This discussion has dwindled down, outright, to this level; this my last attempt to bring it up, instead of further down. If you feel I am wrong or am being malicious, cold-hearted, or whatever; I'd be happy to discuss any critisms you have of me. Saul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:54:57 EDT From: KAPPAABZ Subject: Re: People In a message dated 98-04-24 21:50:21 EDT, you write: > And along those same lines, does anyone have any ideas >on what surface ships are supposed to still be operational in 2000? > > rdf sourcebook has some listing for the persian gulf region, but that's for 1st edition...... going home lists a few............ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:22:08 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: "bitch sessions" Damn, calm down everyone. Why the hell are we fighting amongst each other??? It seems that whenever there is a discussion it eventually just breaks down. THIS IS NOT JERRY SPRINGER. This is the twilight:2000 mailing list!!! I'd hate to see what happens if we all got in a room together, would we be busting chairs over each other's heads??? Ok, it's not everyone but I really don't care. It's like someone will state their opinion on some rule or something, there will be discussion, and then it eventually just breaks down to messages that basically say "you suck!" What about that whole "Monkey boy" thing? Are such things really relevant or important at all? Are we just running out of things to do now that GDW is dead? - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:48:17 -0700 From: Anthony Kim Subject: Re: "bitch sessions" Peter Vieth wrote: > > Damn, calm down everyone. Why the hell are we fighting amongst each > other??? It seems that whenever there is a discussion it eventually just > breaks down. THIS IS NOT JERRY SPRINGER. This is the twilight:2000 > mailing list!!! I'd hate to see what happens if we all got in a room If this were Jerry Springer, first of all, it would be choreographed, and second of all, we'd be throwing chairs at each other. :) But the man's right - we need to lower the temperature here a little bit. - -Tony Kim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:00:16 -0400 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Ships/Navy > rdf sourcebook has some listing for the persian gulf region, > but that's for 1st edition...... > > going home lists a few............ Argh, I never got my hands on some of those older supplements. Out of curiosity, are there any of the monsters left or just some tramp steamers and transports? I would suppose all of our carriers were slagged in the first exchange. Another point we failed to bring up about maintaining a surface fleet in 2001+ AD is that in addition to the (now impossible) task of maintaining such a vessel - the parts and people are all long gone - there's the issue of fuel. Yes, I know some of these ships - and most of the subs (are there any 688's left?) - are nuclear powered, some ships still need oil-based fuel, and they all need oil-based lubricants. Before I make this statement, I'm asking any ex-Navy folks among us not to skin me alive. It's just that, well... keeping in the spirit of my above statement, I think that in T:2000, the remnants of most surface navies - not right away, mind you, and not all at once - would eventually ground themselves near a friendly - and intact - coast, if no port was available, ala "On the Beach". It seems to make sense because eventually, food, fuel, time, and luck are all going to run out. Ironically, I'd want to stay on a (nuclear powered) ship for as long as possible; fuel's no big concern in the short run, you can always send landing parties to forge for food if the fishing was bad, and there's no one to bother you on the high seas. You're also far from most of the big radiation hot spots. Failing this, however - let's say the reactor starts to fail - I could see the skeleton crew of some small cruiser deciding to beach the ship on a quiet strip of, say, Georgia coastline, and make their way home. If nothing else, this makes it easier for refs to integrate Navy characters into the group, giving them a reason for being there, etc. The problem I always had with Air Force and Navy personnel in the game was giving them a hook. Since most of the players INSISTED on playing Joe Grunt, a member of another service was always a welcome novelty. This is the sort of thing that works the best if EVERYONE in the group adopts the character background. Though this is off-topic, it's the same problem with the Cop and Corporate characters in the Cyberpunk: 2020 game. If one player insists on playing a standard beat cop, what's he doing hanging around with the rest of the bunch...? - -- Ash: I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm doing fine... Mirror Image: Hey Ash, we just cut up our girlfriend with a chainsaw, does that sound "fine" to you??? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:14:25 -0400 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: Rebirth > >Saul Basgen wrote: > >(Rude bulls--t snipped) > > Please, if it was so, tell me why? Are you above it? For what reason: did > my statements have no foundation? No merit? For what reasons? Well, I did not expect the sudden vitrol (sp?) with which you responded. I was surprised, and I felt it unprovoked. > Offering hopes and wishes is not creative. It is nice sentiment, but > hoping and wishing achieves nothing at all. Your intentions are not actions > unto themselves. If we are to accomplish a thing, we must have the motive > power of action behind our backs.. You misunderstand me, sir. I am similarly unhappy with Tantalus' lack of action concerning our game. I too would like to change their attitude, and their direction. However, with the exception of some ideas and concepts, I am without a plan of action right now. > While you offer suggestions, you feel all I do is sit and gripe on the > matter? Well, I've always believed that if you yell loud enough about something you believe in, *someone* is going to sit up and listen whether they care to or not. That's why I suggested the things that I did. As dubious of a reputation as the Usenet has, I have had success on several occasions concerning computer games and representatives from the companies that make them who are always on the lookout for user feedback. I hoped to accomplish the same here. > You can tell me that my hands are not wrought with countless months > of creation? Well, I am sure they are, though I do not know all the details. I never accused you of being inactive or uncreative, I simply thought your reaction to *my* thoughts were unfair. Have you done writing for the game in the past, on a professional level? This is an honest question; I'd love to hear about your experiences. Believe it or not, I wrote several supplements for the Cyberpunk: 2020 game. If you're talking about unpublished material you wrote for the game, again, I am with you. I have plenty of my own T:2000 material now sitting fallow that I wanted to see in print, and it disappoints me just as much. If you have a plan of action to win our game back, what do you intend? Are you thinking about publishing your own material, coprights be damned? Or do you plan to somehow petition Tantalus? Again, not a criticism or an accusation, an honest question. If we CAN get Twilight back to active status, let's do it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:51:29 -0400 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Ships/Navy At 08:00 PM 4/25/98 -0400, Emperor Palpatine wrote: > The problem I always had with Air Force and Navy personnel in the game >was giving them a hook. Since most of the players INSISTED on playing >Joe Grunt, a member of another service was always a welcome novelty. >This is the sort of thing that works the best if EVERYONE in the group >adopts the character background. Though this is off-topic, it's the same >problem with the Cop and Corporate characters in the Cyberpunk: 2020 >game. If one player insists on playing a standard beat cop, what's he >doing hanging around with the rest of the bunch...? > I don't think this is really a problem; in fact I don't think it's a problem AT ALL. Like tanks, airplanes would have taken heavy casualties, and at any rate have exorbitant fuel and maintenance requirements. To a lesser extent the same would be true of ships. The logical upshot is that the Air Force and Navy would have started fielding ground units from support personnel or transferring/seconding those personnel to the Army, as has happened countless other times in history when an air force or navy has found itself with men but no planes or ships. And given the chaos in even military life in the TW2000 world, troops from other services and countries, and even from enemy countries, should be par for the course (as the game background indicates in a few places).... Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:04:29 -0400 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: Ships/Navy > The logical upshot is that > the Air Force and Navy would have started fielding ground units from > support personnel or transferring/seconding those personnel to the Army, as > has happened countless other times in history when an air force or navy has > found itself with men but no planes or ships. Okay, hadn't thought of that one. Sort of like all those Luftwaffe divisions the Germans fielded when there wasn't a Luftwaffe to maintain any longer. > And given the chaos in even military life in the TW2000 world, troops from > other services and countries, and even from enemy countries, should be par > for the course (as the game background indicates in a few places).... Other nationalities I had no problem with. I had a German character who led a special forces platoon of ski troops. As attrition took its toll on the group, and other men - some deserters from the other side - enlisted to take their place, the unit ended up with a Polish XO, several Americans, an Italian Medic, a female crossbow sniper who strongly resembled Winona Ryder, and a Bulgarian drill sargeant. Hey, don't laugh. Guy was built like a house. He put the fear of God in my PCs on a couple of occasions. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:18:41 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Rebirth Emperor Palpatine wrote: >If you're talking > about unpublished material you wrote for the game, again, I am with you. > I have plenty of my own T:2000 material now sitting fallow that I wanted > to see in print, and it disappoints me just as much. > > If you have a plan of action to win our game back, what do you intend? > Are you thinking about publishing your own material, coprights be > damned? Or do you plan to somehow petition Tantalus? Again, not a > criticism or an accusation, an honest question. If we CAN get Twilight > back to active status, let's do it. This is what angers me most... There lots of people with stuff just waiting. We don't care about a profit, we're just interested in getting this stuff out there but we're trapped by the copyright. I do have an idea, which I will try and post this weekend. Will it be good? I'm not too sure. Will it be amusing? Most likely (hehe:]). - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:20:44 -0700 From: "S.R. Dennis" Subject: Re: Ships/Navy By 'ground their ships' I assume you meant that the CO would find a nice harbor somewhere, set the anchor, and just leave. There is a Navy motto 'don't give up the ship' which is almost one of the Ten Commandments to most Lifers. . But all that is just me flapping my gums anyways. Your idea is a good one and highly feasable for the situation we are talking about. There would come a point when even a nuclear powered vessel would run out of supplies and be impossibile to stay with. Now that I think of it most Captains would scuttle, or voluntarily sink, the vessel before abandoning it or putting it aground. That would be an excellent starting point for a campaign with new characters I think. Emperor Palpatine wrote: > > rdf sourcebook has some listing for the persian gulf region, > > but that's for 1st edition...... > > > > going home lists a few............ > > Argh, I never got my hands on some of those older supplements. Out of > curiosity, are there any of the monsters left or just some tramp > steamers and transports? I would suppose all of our carriers were > slagged in the first exchange. > > Another point we failed to bring up about maintaining a surface fleet > in 2001+ AD is that in addition to the (now impossible) task of > maintaining such a vessel - the parts and people are all long gone - > there's the issue of fuel. Yes, I know some of these ships - and most of > the subs (are there any 688's left?) - are nuclear powered, some ships > still need oil-based fuel, and they all need oil-based lubricants. > > Before I make this statement, I'm asking any ex-Navy folks among us not > to skin me alive. It's just that, well... keeping in the spirit of my > above statement, I think that in T:2000, the remnants of most surface > navies - not right away, mind you, and not all at once - would > eventually ground themselves near a friendly - and intact - coast, if no > port was available, ala "On the Beach". It seems to make sense because > eventually, food, fuel, time, and luck are all going to run out. > Ironically, I'd want to stay on a (nuclear powered) ship for as long as > possible; fuel's no big concern in the short run, you can always send > landing parties to forge for food if the fishing was bad, and there's no > one to bother you on the high seas. You're also far from most of the big > radiation hot spots. > > Failing this, however - let's say the reactor starts to fail - I could > see the skeleton crew of some small cruiser deciding to beach the ship > on a quiet strip of, say, Georgia coastline, and make their way home. If > nothing else, this makes it easier for refs to integrate Navy characters > into the group, giving them a reason for being there, etc. > > The problem I always had with Air Force and Navy personnel in the game > was giving them a hook. Since most of the players INSISTED on playing > Joe Grunt, a member of another service was always a welcome novelty. > This is the sort of thing that works the best if EVERYONE in the group > adopts the character background. Though this is off-topic, it's the same > problem with the Cop and Corporate characters in the Cyberpunk: 2020 > game. If one player insists on playing a standard beat cop, what's he > doing hanging around with the rest of the bunch...? > > -- > Ash: I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm doing fine... > > Mirror Image: Hey Ash, we just cut up our girlfriend with a chainsaw, > does that sound "fine" to you??? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:21:42 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: RPA I've put the web pages up. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/2946 Unfortunately the images don't work. I hope to fix this soon. Navigation may be strange but the info is there. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:15:36 -0700 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: RPA Peter Vieth wrote: > > I've put the web pages up. > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/2946 > Unfortunately the images don't work. I hope to fix this soon. Navigation > may be strange but the info is there. > -- > Peter Vieth > Fitek@ix.netcom.com > IGZ Handle: Fitek > ICQ UIN: 3660410 > Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html for the RPA i mean. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:26:10 +0000 From: seventyfourth@pop.erols.com Subject: Twilight Auction (Going ... Going!) Mike's Twilight 2000 Auction POST #9 (Status will advance on Tuesday, April 28th) ******************** RULES OF THE AUCTION Auctioneer: Michael Rottler-Gurley seventyfourth@erols.com 1. Bids must be whole $1 amounts. (i.e. no "change") 2. All items will be shipped via USPS. Postage is additional as is insurance (if desired). I will let you know the postage and insurance amounts within 24 hours if you are the winning bidder. If you have a preferred shipper besides USPS (i.e. UPS, FedX), I will make all attempts to use that shipper instead. 3. Items will be shipped with in 24 hours of receiving funds (cashiers check or money order) or as soon as the check clears if personal check is used (allow about 10 days for this). No CODS. 4. Please pay close attention to your bids. 5. I will use the "Going, Goingx2, Gone" method. This process will begin Friday, April 24, 1998. Every 48 hours will advance the status if I do not receive any higher bids for the item. 6. I expect everyone to honor their bids once things are at the GOINGx2 or GONE stage. If you don't want an item, PLEASE let me know before this. 7. The person making the earliest bid settles identical bids. 8. Each update will have the top 3 bidders listed. 9. Please list a name and item number when bidding. 10. There will be no "buyouts" accepted. Item Condition: Mint - No noticeable flaws. Perfect. Near mint - A few small flaws. Excellent - Showing some wear and minor flaws. Very good - Average used condition. Fair - Extremely well used. Poor - Extremely well used and has major flaws. Unless noted, all material is complete, i.e. no missing pages. ************************* 500 1st edition Boxed Set Condition: Fair - Very Good Complete right down to the Content Sheet, Errata Sheet, dice, and a couple of blank character/vehicle sheets. The box itself is in good condition. There are some pencil and pen markings on the material, and the equipment list has masking tape on its spine for reinforcement. For some reason, there are two copies of the Referee's Charts in the box. (I'm not sure where I picked up the 2nd one!) The 2-page color map of Poland has been kept in very good Excellent condition. Minimum Bid: $5 jrw4war@rocketmail.com $6 GOING x2 wraith@pensys.com $5 501 The Free City of Krakow Condition: Very Good (some highlighting) Minimum Bid: $3 502 Pirates of the Vistula Condition: Excellent (very minor pencil marking) Minimum Bid: $3 Argent_Warning@rocketmail.com $3 GOING x2 503 The Ruins of Warsaw Condition: Near Mint Minimum Bid: $3 Argent_Warning@rocketmail.com $3 GOING x2 504 U.S. Army Vehicle Guide (includes color plates) Condition: Excellent (some minor cover wear) Minimum Bid: $3 wraith@pensys.com $3 GOING x2 505 The Black Madonna Condition: Excellent (some minor cover wear) Minimum Bid: $3 jrw4war@rocketmail.com $3 GOING x2 506 Going Home (includes color map of N. Germany) Condition: Near Mint Minimum Bid: $3 jrw4war@rocketmail.com $3 GOING x2 507 Red Star Lone Star Condition: Near Mint Minimum Bid: $3 508 RDF Sourcebook Condition: Excellent (some minor cover wear) Minimum Bid: $3 jrw4war@rocketmail.com $4 GOING x2 Argent_Warning@rocketmail.com $3 509 Armies of the Night Condition: Near Mint Minimum Bid: $3 512 Gateway to the Spanish Main Condition: Mint Minimum Bid: $3 513 King's Ransom Condition: Near Mint Minimum Bid: $3 514 Soviet Vehicle Guide (includes color plates) Condition: Excellent (some minor cover wear) Minimum Bid: $3 Argent_Warning@rocketmail.com $4 GOING x2 wraith@pensys.com $3 516 Small Arms Guide Condition: Near Mint Minimum Bid: $3 wraith@pensys.com $3 GOING x2 517 The Last Submarine Condition: Mint Minimum Bid: $3 jrw4war@rocketmail.com $3 GOING x2 519 Howling Wilderness (includes Citymaker) Condition: Mint Minimum Bid: $3 Argent_Warning@rocketmail.com $3 GOING x2 ************************* The Revised Recon Rules Book (Palladium) 3rd Printing, 1988 Condition: Mint Minimum Bid: $3 ************************* Uniforms of the Warsaw Pact (squadron/signal pub.) Condition: Excellent Minimum Bid: $4 ************************* I have several other items that will go up for auction in the future. The only reason that they won't be available right now is that I'm in the midst of moving and don't have the time to catalog them and make sure that they are complete. In addition to posting on the newsgroup, I'll email any bidders in this auction when I'm ready to sell. (if you're interested) 551 Last Battle Boxed Set Team Yankee Rules/Maps/Counters Challenge #25 Challenge #26 Challenge #27 Challenge #28 Challenge #29 Challenge #30 Challenge #39 Challenge #51 ************* ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1998 #22 ************************************