twilight2000-digest Thursday, March 26 1998 Volume 1998 : Number 015 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: Other scenarios Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Speaking of games..... Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Thanks Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Civgov vs Milgov Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Re: Civgov vs Milgov ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:35:54 EST From: ClayRBush Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 I run Merc: 2000 events at GenCon. Twilight:2000 doesn't draw many players there. The Merc setting has WW3 not happen, but a global depression breaks out. I prefer running Russian mercs for several reasons: 1. Players can talk without NPCs understanding the "Russian" used. It makes for freer discussions. 2. Players have access to Soviet and Chinese weapons, but not to the high-tech weaponry potentially available to a "Western" party. It limits player "greed." CENTRAL ASIA I have run events in Sinkiang/Zinqiang, in the given Chinese reversion to warlordism. Players have been Russians interfering in local affairs. USEFUL IDEA - The one I ran at GenCon was inspired by Where Eagles Dare. A Soviet plane went down in Sinkiang. The Russians choose to break the crew and passengers out rather than pay the rebel's demands for a ransom of military hardware. The rebels are holed up in a medieval-style Chinese fort rebuilt in for a film. This "plane went down across border" can be used in many regions. PACIFICA USEFUL IDEA - COUNTER-COUP: Players were hired for a counter-revolt on a small island group, near underwater mineral deposits. An uncle had taken control with Australian mercs. The nephew hired Russians, since he couldn't find any source closer. The ship was sabotaged near an outer island. Players generally "volunteered" someone to try to bring an amphibious AFV ashore while the rest watched from a ship's boat. Crossing the island, the PCs run into a group of Aussies searching the island's village, and have a chance to capture a helicopter. (Hint: sniper rifle. pilot.) The other alternative is cross to the main island by boat or AFV. AFRICA I considered running some mineral exploration groups as described in CONGO, but I disliked the movie too much to try using the book. Briefly, there are regions outside reliable government control. Some may have valuable resources. Players would be hired as security. The problem is that a patron representative will be along, so the players can pass decisions on what to do back to the referee. ("What does the geologist want to do?") USEFUL IDEA - COUP: I ran one locally, which I will be running at the next GenCon, in which the players are hired to help a coup by arranging disruption in the capital city at noon on a particular day. Events depend on what players decide to do. USEFUL IDEA - RECOVERY: A daughter or son with a missionary group or Peace Corp is missing/held hostage, and the family funds a retrieval operation. One complication the players may overlook is that the target may be a practicing pacifist who might object to cooperating with the group. USEFUL IDEA - F.A.C.T.: The novel ISLANDS IN THE STREAM concerned events as earth became a safe place everywhere. It transpired that attacks on terrorists by F.A.C.T. (Federation Action Counter-Terroriste) where not by France, but were by other terrorist/criminal groups. They affixed FACT to the claims- responsibility propaganda to tell the victim it was a reprisal for stepping outside the lines. Most FACT attacks were by stringers hired for the operation. USEFUL IDEA - MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: Adapt the opening blurbs from old Mission Impossible shows. "Your mission, Jim, is to recover the missing scientist..." This does NOT work if the group is commited to use of firepower, and you use more than just the premise. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:52:38 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 (Hint: sniper rifle. pilot.) How well does a bullet go through glass anyway? - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:30:45 -0800 (PST) From: Narve Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 - ---Peter Vieth wrote: > > (Hint: sniper rifle. pilot.) > > How well does a bullet go through glass anyway? > Depends on the bullet, and the glass. But generally the bullet will "tumble" after penetrating the glass, thereby losing accuracy and range. Sniper rifles (or firearms designed for sniping purposes) ususally uses ammo ranging from 9x19mmP (HK MP5 variant) to around .50 cal (Barett M82 etc,) If the helicopter is a modern attack helicopter or a ship like the Mi-24, a 9x19mmP bullet would probably not even penetrate the armored glass, while a 12.7x99mm should easily penetrate the glass and still have enough kinetic energy left to penetrate the pilot's helmet (if the bullet hits in the head) and cause fatal injuries.Penetration is guaranteed if firing 12.7mm multi-purpose ammunition (I have seen it penetrate 45mm RHA steel at 100m and still have % ing power" left), although the interior of pit would be damaged. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 06:09:55 -0600 From: Mitch Berg Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 At 08:59 PM 3/23/98 -0500, twilight2000-digest wrote: > > Anybody run a good American campaign? I have a group in Europe (the >game's been on hiatus for years) who had acheived some measure of >success in turning the war back to NATO's favor. But, the idea's getting >a little stale and I'm considering running a New York adventure... >that's where I live and all. But, reading Howling Wilderness, I wonder. I ran a campaign that ran from 1987-1995, starting in Poland, progressing via Germany, Sweden, Poland again, Norway, the UK, then an Atlantic crossing (using the sailing rules I wrote in Challenger in 1989, which will be on my website shortly), through the Caribbean (Pirates of the... - the only "canned" scenario I ever used, although I bought almost every one GDW put out), the Mississippi valley, Minnesota, the Great Plains, Colorado, and back across the plains to Minnnesota. Obviously, there are far too many details to relay in a single email. Send me any questions you'd like... Mitch Berg http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/ Mitch Berg Humanware Design - www.humanwaredesign.com (612)418-8995 User Interface Design, Usability Analysis and Information Engineering. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 06:09:55 -0600 From: Mitch Berg Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 At 08:59 PM 3/23/98 -0500, twilight2000-digest wrote: > > Anybody run a good American campaign? I have a group in Europe (the >game's been on hiatus for years) who had acheived some measure of >success in turning the war back to NATO's favor. But, the idea's getting >a little stale and I'm considering running a New York adventure... >that's where I live and all. But, reading Howling Wilderness, I wonder. I ran a campaign that ran from 1987-1995, starting in Poland, progressing via Germany, Sweden, Poland again, Norway, the UK, then an Atlantic crossing (using the sailing rules I wrote in Challenger in 1989, which will be on my website shortly), through the Caribbean (Pirates of the... - the only "canned" scenario I ever used, although I bought almost every one GDW put out), the Mississippi valley, Minnesota, the Great Plains, Colorado, and back across the plains to Minnnesota. Obviously, there are far too many details to relay in a single email. Send me any questions you'd like... Mitch Berg http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/ Mitch Berg Humanware Design - www.humanwaredesign.com (612)418-8995 User Interface Design, Usability Analysis and Information Engineering. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:42:50 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Mitch- Would you like to use some of my articles on your web site? I've got a bunch of stuff that WOULD have appeared in Challenge had GDW not sunk. I had three articles appear in Challenge - "All That Glitters", "Avery's Raiders", and "Altruistic Motives". These were pretty neat little adventures. I'd include those too, but I don't know if copyrights permit it. If so, I'll send them out to you (and anyone else who'd like to put some articles on their website). - -- I remember a time when... The suburbs were sunny and bright, The cities were down and out, Reagan was president, and Pac-Man was king. Good God, I miss those days. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:37:22 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: Other scenarios Grimace997 wrote: > > In a message dated 98-03-21 04:36:34 EST, you write: > > << > Given GDW's unfortunate demise, has anyone ever attempted to adopt some > of the other genres they were thinking of using the Twilight system to > simulate? I was especially interested in "The Iron Dream", which was a > military adventure setting placed in World War II, and "Reaction Force" > (or something like that), which placed players in a modern-day rapid > deployment force reacting to situations like Somalia and the like. > >> > I am also really interested in the idea of a military setting in World War II. > What a wealth of information there is out there. The possibilities would > almost be endless. I've gotten as far as looking through all the sourcebooks > and determining the extent of WW II weapons and equipment there is in the > normal Twilight 2000. After that, everything thing else would have to be from > scratch. That is, unless someone out there happens to have any information of > World War II equipment in Twilight version statistics. I've tinkered with the > vehicles, but I'm not real knowledgable about the weaponry of that era. > I have developed statistics and rules for a number of weapons, small arms and heavy weapons for Twilight, and probably have stats for WWII weaponry. If not, it would be easy for me to get and develop the stats for use in the game. If you are interested in developing this game further, let me know and I could help out with the weapons. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:34:34 -0600 From: "Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke" Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 I just came back into the game after a few years, so bear with me on this one. A great US scenario source are the Guardians series by Richard Austin. They were published in the mid eighties during the post-apocalypse series explosion (Out of the Ashes series, Outlands, the Survivalist series, etc....). The premise is that the US government KNOWS that nuclear war, and the ensuing chaos, are an eventuality. To counter the post-nuke anarchy, the government develops what it calls the "Blueprint for Renewal". This is a project designed to bring America back to the level of industry and civilisation that it has prior to a nuke war. It has several parts, including high-tech agrocultural projects, satellite programs, all focused around a select group of scientists and various other professionals with expertise in critical rebuilding skills. Various parts (and people) of the "blueprint" are hidden across the US in secret, hardened or hard-to-find, sites. After the balloon goes up, there is a plan to retrieve the various parts and reinstitute the government and bring order to the land. Enter our heroes, the Guardians. These guys are selected prior to the balloon going up from across the US military services. In a very cliche manner (recommend this is NOT done in a TW2000 campaign), they choose one member from each major service: Army, Navy, AF, Marines. Unfortunately, the main characters are rather cliche - US Army SF guy (very secretive, dark backround), US Navy Surface Warfare Officer (kinda stingy, and, hey, a NAVY GUY), USAF pilot (hotshot, also drives racecars and is a helluva shot with a sniper rifle), and a US Marine Lt (former senior NCO, buff, gruff, chews on a cigar). These guys are selected to form the elite team that will retrieve the parts of the "Blueprint" after everything goes to hell in a handbasket. They are equipped with a V-150 commando vehicle with a bunch of high tech stuff hardwired inside (computers, sat communications, etc). They are also provided with the locations of various caches that are pre-established across the US. The story: Balloon goes up; team first escorts the president (or acting president, I forget now) to a top-secret hardened command site in the Midwest. This becomes the new seat of government (Wash DC is a big glowing crater - plus, the new capital is all part of the big "Blueprint"). Next, they go out and start retrieving pieces. They retrieve high-tech garbage and scientists from all across the U.S. In the meantime, they deal with marauders, freedom fighters, Russians infiled from Alaska, religious zealots, etc. The books and their various plotlines would probably lend themselves well to the TW2000 genre. There would have to be some minor modification to the timeline to make it match the history of WW3 presented in the books. OR, a GM could use the TW2000 timeline and insert the "Blueprint" plotline. Maybe Civgov and Milgov each have teams racing to gather the various parts? All in all, a great bunch of books. I've forgotten most of them now, but I do remember a firefight scene that takes place in a deserted Disneyland.....pretty cool..... Keep your hatchet sharp and your powder dry, Brian >> Anybody run a good American campaign? I have a group in Europe (the >>game's been on hiatus for years) who had acheived some measure of >>success in turning the war back to NATO's favor. But, the idea's getting >>a little stale and I'm considering running a New York adventure... >>that's where I live and all. But, reading Howling Wilderness, I wonder. > >I ran a campaign that ran from 1987-1995, starting in Poland, progressing >via Germany, Sweden, Poland again, Norway, the UK, then an Atlantic >crossing (using the sailing rules I wrote in Challenger in 1989, which will >be on my website shortly), through the Caribbean (Pirates of the... - the >only "canned" scenario I ever used, although I bought almost every one GDW >put out), the Mississippi valley, Minnesota, the Great Plains, Colorado, >and back across the plains to Minnnesota. > >Obviously, there are far too many details to relay in a single email. Send >me any questions you'd like... > >Mitch Berg >http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/ > >Mitch Berg >Humanware Design - www.humanwaredesign.com >(612)418-8995 > >User Interface Design, Usability Analysis and >Information Engineering. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:34:34 -0600 From: "Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke" Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 I just came back into the game after a few years, so bear with me on this one. A great US scenario source are the Guardians series by Richard Austin. They were published in the mid eighties during the post-apocalypse series explosion (Out of the Ashes series, Outlands, the Survivalist series, etc....). The premise is that the US government KNOWS that nuclear war, and the ensuing chaos, are an eventuality. To counter the post-nuke anarchy, the government develops what it calls the "Blueprint for Renewal". This is a project designed to bring America back to the level of industry and civilisation that it has prior to a nuke war. It has several parts, including high-tech agrocultural projects, satellite programs, all focused around a select group of scientists and various other professionals with expertise in critical rebuilding skills. Various parts (and people) of the "blueprint" are hidden across the US in secret, hardened or hard-to-find, sites. After the balloon goes up, there is a plan to retrieve the various parts and reinstitute the government and bring order to the land. Enter our heroes, the Guardians. These guys are selected prior to the balloon going up from across the US military services. In a very cliche manner (recommend this is NOT done in a TW2000 campaign), they choose one member from each major service: Army, Navy, AF, Marines. Unfortunately, the main characters are rather cliche - US Army SF guy (very secretive, dark backround), US Navy Surface Warfare Officer (kinda stingy, and, hey, a NAVY GUY), USAF pilot (hotshot, also drives racecars and is a helluva shot with a sniper rifle), and a US Marine Lt (former senior NCO, buff, gruff, chews on a cigar). These guys are selected to form the elite team that will retrieve the parts of the "Blueprint" after everything goes to hell in a handbasket. They are equipped with a V-150 commando vehicle with a bunch of high tech stuff hardwired inside (computers, sat communications, etc). They are also provided with the locations of various caches that are pre-established across the US. The story: Balloon goes up; team first escorts the president (or acting president, I forget now) to a top-secret hardened command site in the Midwest. This becomes the new seat of government (Wash DC is a big glowing crater - plus, the new capital is all part of the big "Blueprint"). Next, they go out and start retrieving pieces. They retrieve high-tech garbage and scientists from all across the U.S. In the meantime, they deal with marauders, freedom fighters, Russians infiled from Alaska, religious zealots, etc. The books and their various plotlines would probably lend themselves well to the TW2000 genre. There would have to be some minor modification to the timeline to make it match the history of WW3 presented in the books. OR, a GM could use the TW2000 timeline and insert the "Blueprint" plotline. Maybe Civgov and Milgov each have teams racing to gather the various parts? All in all, a great bunch of books. I've forgotten most of them now, but I do remember a firefight scene that takes place in a deserted Disneyland.....pretty cool..... Keep your hatchet sharp and your powder dry, Brian >> Anybody run a good American campaign? I have a group in Europe (the >>game's been on hiatus for years) who had acheived some measure of >>success in turning the war back to NATO's favor. But, the idea's getting >>a little stale and I'm considering running a New York adventure... >>that's where I live and all. But, reading Howling Wilderness, I wonder. > >I ran a campaign that ran from 1987-1995, starting in Poland, progressing >via Germany, Sweden, Poland again, Norway, the UK, then an Atlantic >crossing (using the sailing rules I wrote in Challenger in 1989, which will >be on my website shortly), through the Caribbean (Pirates of the... - the >only "canned" scenario I ever used, although I bought almost every one GDW >put out), the Mississippi valley, Minnesota, the Great Plains, Colorado, >and back across the plains to Minnnesota. > >Obviously, there are far too many details to relay in a single email. Send >me any questions you'd like... > >Mitch Berg >http://www.humanwaredesign.com/t2k/ > >Mitch Berg >Humanware Design - www.humanwaredesign.com >(612)418-8995 > >User Interface Design, Usability Analysis and >Information Engineering. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:50:13 -0600 From: "Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke" Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Once again, this time for Merc:2000, I turn to my now long-gone library of military adventure novels I used to own. This time, I recommend to you the Stony Man series from Gold Eagle Books. This encompasses the quintisential (sp) and supra macho hero, Mack Bolan. There are also two other organizations mentioned in the Stony Man novels - Able Team and Phoenix Force. The Stony Man organization is a basically private army based out of a secret training base in the Blue Ridge Mtns in Virginia that the US govt uses to take care of problems is doesn't want to associate with actual US armed forces (terrorists, gangs, drugs, etc). These missions are conducted in a most secretive, and most violent, fashion. This lends itself very easily to the world of Merc:2000; the heroes are simply members of an organization similar to Stony Man that receives funding and missions from the US gov't - all with complete deniability on the part of the government. The team members are frequently foreign or of mixed nationalities - also very user-friendly to a Merc:2000 game. Simply look in the "men's adventure" section of any major bookstore to find the Stony Man series - look for the Mack Bolan series, Phoenix Force, Able Team, and the large, Stony Man novels. The first three series may be out of print, but I know I've seen the Stony Man novels on sale here in Panama in the post bookstores. There also used to be a Gold Eagle series that dealt with a group of mercenaries......I think it was called SOBs....(Soldiers of Barabus, or something like that......) If you are interested in "older" scenarios, I recommend a the "Black Eagle" series by John Lansing. This is a series set in the Vietnam era that deals with a "covert" group of international soldiers that carries out covert missions for MACV-SOG in Vietnam. Very high bodycount - to include several of the good guys - in every book. - -----Original Message----- From: Pietu To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 3:36 AM Subject: Does anybody have new scenarios? >Hi pals, > >I wondering, does anybody have something i called " Fast >Mission/Scenario-idea ", I mean ideas what are invented when you are >watching Tv, Movies or CNN. They havent got to be full scenario or even part >of it, but just idea. IŽam GM in MERC:2000 and iŽam unable to invent nothing >new anymore. > >I`am very interested to heard these " Fast Ideas " if anyone have. > >And sorry for my bad English. > >Mr. Pietu > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:07:35 -0600 From: "Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke" Subject: Speaking of games..... Ahem. Speaking of Merc:2000 and TW2000, does anyone know of any openings in a pbem game out there? I've just started playing in a TW2000 game set in Europe and I've renewed my interest in the game. I'd like to get into a US TW2000 game or a M2000 game if anyone has openings..... Brian K. Flood ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:48:57 -0800 From: Pablo Escoverra Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke wrote: > I just came back into the game after a few years, so bear with me on this > one. A great US scenario source are the Guardians series by Richard Austin. Brian, I found it funny that you mentioned the Guardians series as a source for a good Merc/Twighlight campaign. I read these same books and I don't think they would adapt very well to the RPG world simply because the characters are somewhat indestructable and the situations they get themselve into would kill your average RPG character. Another problem is that combat is depicted very unrealistically in the Guardians series, by this I mean that most of the battles the Guardians engaged in ended up being resolved by Billy Mckay hosing down the opposing forces with his M-60 fired from the hip while a quick one liner escaped his chisled mouth. I do find the whole situation of being hired by the US govt. to be a problem solving team a good concept, however. If this is what you were inferring then I would have to agree with you. By the way, did you know that the name Richard Austin is in fact a pseudonem for a guy by the name of Victor Milan? He has a web site where he talks about the books he has written, including the Guardians series. Here is the Here it is. http://pw2.netcom.com/~vicmilan/vic_personal.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:06:58 +0200 From: Pietu Subject: Thanks Thanks for new scenario ideas, pals. Specially to Emperor Palpatine. Mr. Pietu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:32:08 -0600 From: "Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke" Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 I agree fully that THE CHARACTERS in the books are unbelievable - that is the first thing I would get rid of if I turned it into a campaign. They are WAY to cliche; not to mention, it ain't a whole lot of fun to play a character that someone else designed. Its the plotline itself that I think could be adapted to a campaign - not necessarily every battle (most encounters could be generated randomly using existing methods). I like his version of post WW3 America better as well; ie: the military (except for some deserters, which is to be expected) still answers to the orders of the civilian government. As a professionally educated officer, who has been trained since first taking my oath as a cadet that one of the founding principles of this country was to make the military subject to the leadership of the duly-appointed civilian leaders, I find the TW2000 idea of placing of Civgov vs. Milgov extremely hard to stomach..... - -----Original Message----- From: Pablo Escoverra To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 9:57 PM Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 > > >Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke wrote: > >> I just came back into the game after a few years, so bear with me on this >> one. A great US scenario source are the Guardians series by Richard Austin. > >Brian, >I found it funny that you mentioned the Guardians series as a source for a good >Merc/Twighlight campaign. I read these same books and I don't think they would >adapt very well to the RPG world simply because the characters are somewhat >indestructable and the situations they get themselve into would kill your >average RPG character. Another problem is that combat is depicted very >unrealistically in the Guardians series, by this I mean that most of the battles >the Guardians engaged in ended up being resolved by Billy Mckay hosing down the >opposing forces with his M-60 fired from the hip while a quick one liner escaped >his chisled mouth. >I do find the whole situation of being hired by the US govt. to be a problem >solving team a good concept, however. If this is what you were inferring then I >would have to agree with you. >By the way, did you know that the name Richard Austin is in fact a pseudonem for >a guy by the name of Victor Milan? He has a web site where he talks about the >books he has written, including the Guardians series. Here is the >Here it is. >http://pw2.netcom.com/~vicmilan/vic_personal.html > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:39:15 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke wrote: >I like his > version of post WW3 America better as well; ie: the military (except for > some deserters, which is to be expected) still answers to the orders of the > civilian government. As a professionally educated officer, who has been > trained since first taking my oath as a cadet that one of the founding > principles of this country was to make the military subject to the > leadership of the duly-appointed civilian leaders, I find the TW2000 idea of > placing of Civgov vs. Milgov extremely hard to stomach..... > I though a lot of the t2k setting was silly, the Civgov and Milgov included (the names Civgov and Milgov sound stupid too). I just went ahead and threw most of it out (although I thought the idea of a war between Russia and China was good). It's a lot less restrictive and keeps the players from reading the referee's version of the timeline while I'm in the bathroom. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:14:03 EST From: KAPPAABZ Subject: Civgov vs Milgov In a message dated 98-03-25 21:51:46 EST, you write: >I find the TW2000 idea of >placing of Civgov vs. Milgov extremely hard to stomach..... > > Which part, specifically, of this is the hard part? Imagine, if you will, that you, as a junior officer, with a long career ahead of you, are suddenly thrust into the horrors of war. Not one hundred hours, not 6 weeks, but over three years of extended conflict and combat. The last orders from the commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States, was a proclamation of war, and martial law. Then there was no more Commander in chief, or secretary of defence, or vice president, or secretary of state, etc, etc., The Chairman of the Joint Cheifs is now in charge of all military forces, and will gladly accept the legetimate civilian authority of the US. But certain things must happen for that authority to be considered legitimate. As a junior officer, who do you follow (remember, as an officer a career is made by a good conflict, and alot of kissing the right ass)? Who is right? the commander in chief for remaining faithful to the last orders given to him by his superior, or the "Civilian Government" with an "elected" president, and shootings on the congress floor over who was really elected to that seat by a district they've never even seen? can you now see the delima? Sure there are certain issues about it which stretch the bounds of belief, but this is a role-playing game, and in and of itself, makes it a fantasy game. Key word being Fantasy. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:29:37 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 (although I thought the idea of a war >between Russia and China was good). Although the Soviet Union and China never got along, Soviet Military Foreign Policy was not to get into a war with China- especially on Chinese territory; quite honestly I can't imagine any country even today would dare to invade China with a military. Foregin policy aside, strategically the war would be a mistake. With 'NATO aggression' in the West, diverting the Soviet category I soldiers to the Far East TVD is sheer stupidity... So they do it anyway, and the area turns into a 'meat grinder'.... no doubt... but what I can't quite understand is how the Soviet Union came out of that 'disaster' so easily- (the nukes helped them to stop thier loses- but they still did have losess), set it's divisons on the Trans-Siberian, and beat NATO into submission... it's pretty absurd I think.. The only problem is that if the war didn't happen, China would be sure to set up massive stability in the region...... S. Korea would fall pretty easily (casualties limited mostly to N Korean soldiers)... Thailand next, occupation-only of course (at least, at first)... Help Vietnam take Kampuchea, and set up Vietnam as a tributary..... Myanmar's communists would overthrow the military dictatorship with the help of the Chinese... With the primary parties of S.E. Asia, Malaysia, Indonesia, & New Guinea could come next... Then a war with Australia, which in 2000 is still unresolved..... This could make for some interesting MERC type adventures in China, and could set the stage for later campaigns... It's a lot less restrictive and >keeps the players from reading the referee's version of the timeline >while I'm in the bathroom. he he he.... I've had that happen to me on acouple of occasions... and they thought fuel air bombs didn't exist in the year 2000.... :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:32:23 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 At 09:29 PM 3/25/98 -0800, Saul Basgen wrote: > > The only problem is that if the war didn't happen, China would be sure to >set up massive stability in the region...... S. Korea would fall pretty >easily (casualties limited mostly to N Korean soldiers)... Thailand next, >occupation-only of course (at least, at first)... Help Vietnam take >Kampuchea, and set up Vietnam as a tributary..... Myanmar's communists >would overthrow the military dictatorship with the help of the Chinese... >With the primary parties of S.E. Asia, Malaysia, Indonesia, & New Guinea >could come next... Then a war with Australia, which in 2000 is still >unresolved..... This could make for some interesting MERC type adventures >in China, and could set the stage for later campaigns... > Hmmm...most of this stuff could happen, but not the Vietnam thing--the Chinese and Vietnamese hate each other, and in fact they fought a short border war in the late '70's (in which the Vietnamese kicked the Chinese's ass). The other stuff could happen, maybe, but the fly in the ointment is that China already has a lot of trouble controlling its territory--the place is just too big, and short of something like a Stalinist regime, there are constant problems maintaing centralized conrol over everything--and it would probably be even harder in a world gone to hell. So I think that even without China in a war, China would have problems just keeping itself whole, let alone forming a new empire (and if it did try forming one Pakistan or India might get nervous and get into a war with it and trigger an exchange of nukes). Scott Orr > > It's a lot less restrictive and >>keeps the players from reading the referee's version of the timeline >>while I'm in the bathroom. > >he he he.... I've had that happen to me on acouple of occasions... and they >thought fuel air bombs didn't exist in the year 2000.... :) > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:10:28 -0500 From: bell029@ibm.net Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Brian K. Flood & Ann Marie Henke wrote: > > Once again, this time for Merc:2000, I turn to my now long-gone library of > military adventure novels I used to own. This time, I recommend to you the > Stony Man series from Gold Eagle Books. This encompasses the quintisential > (sp) and supra macho hero, Mack Bolan. There are also two other > organizations mentioned in the Stony Man novels - Able Team and Phoenix > Force. The Stony Man organization is a basically private army based out of > a secret training base in the Blue Ridge Mtns in Virginia that the US govt > uses to take care of problems is doesn't want to associate with actual US > armed forces (terrorists, gangs, drugs, etc). These missions are conducted > in a most secretive, and most violent, fashion. This lends itself very > easily to the world of Merc:2000; the heroes are simply members of an > organization similar to Stony Man that receives funding and missions from > the US gov't - all with complete deniability on the part of the government. > > The team members are frequently foreign or of mixed nationalities - also > very user-friendly to a Merc:2000 game. > > Simply look in the "men's adventure" section of any major bookstore to find > the Stony Man series - look for the Mack Bolan series, Phoenix Force, Able > Team, and the large, Stony Man novels. The first three series may be out of > print, but I know I've seen the Stony Man novels on sale here in Panama in > the post bookstores. > > There also used to be a Gold Eagle series that dealt with a group of > mercenaries......I think it was called SOBs....(Soldiers of Barabus, or > something like that......) > > If you are interested in "older" scenarios, I recommend a the "Black Eagle" > series by John Lansing. This is a series set in the Vietnam era that deals > with a "covert" group of international soldiers that carries out covert > missions for MACV-SOG in Vietnam. Very high bodycount - to include several > of the good guys - in every book. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pietu > To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM > Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 3:36 AM > Subject: Does anybody have new scenarios? > > >Hi pals, > > > >I wondering, does anybody have something i called " Fast > >Mission/Scenario-idea ", I mean ideas what are invented when you are > >watching Tv, Movies or CNN. They havent got to be full scenario or even > part > >of it, but just idea. IŽam GM in MERC:2000 and iŽam unable to invent > nothing > >new anymore. > > > >I`am very interested to heard these " Fast Ideas " if anyone have. > > > >And sorry for my bad English. > > > >Mr. Pietu > > > > > > There was a series of books written in the mid to late eighties called THE ZONE. THE ZONE refers to the area in Europe in which the bulk of the fighting takes place. The series was written by Jerry Rouch and was published by (I think) Zebra books. The series is hard-core world war three materiel. It deals with a Special Combat Company composed of American infantry, British tank hunters and Armour personnel, and some Grepo and Red Army deserters. Each book is about 200-250 pages, and makes for an easy read. You should be able to generate a ton of ideas from them. If anyone wants a list of them, just send a message. Later. Grady. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:51:08 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 Saul Basgen wrote: > Then a war with Australia, which in 2000 is still > unresolved..... This could make for some interesting MERC type adventures > in China, and could set the stage for later campaigns... > Actually what happened in last campaign is that there was a limited war with China and China did end up being very powerful... this was an interesting campaign because the PCs were Australian. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:55:22 +0100 From: johnson@hrem.mpi-stuttgart.mpg.de Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? I would like the list. I'm always interested in other post-WWIII books. Always get for character and scenario ideas. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:47:34 -0400 From: wardlow Subject: Re: Civgov vs Milgov I tend to agree with KAPPAABZ the T2K version is the more likely senario to happen. The military Commander legally cannot relinquish command until the proper duly appointed representative relives him. Vlad P.S. I'm ex-military myself and I would be following the military commander's lead no matter what. KAPPAABZ wrote: > In a message dated 98-03-25 21:51:46 EST, you write: > > >I find the TW2000 idea of > >placing of Civgov vs. Milgov extremely hard to stomach..... > > > > > > Which part, specifically, of this is the hard part? > > Imagine, if you will, that you, as a junior officer, with a long career ahead > of you, are suddenly thrust into the horrors of war. Not one hundred hours, > not 6 weeks, but over three years of extended conflict and combat. The last > orders from the commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States, > was a proclamation of war, and martial law. Then there was no more Commander > in chief, or secretary of defence, or vice president, or secretary of state, > etc, etc., > The Chairman of the Joint Cheifs is now in charge of all military forces, and > will gladly accept the legetimate civilian authority of the US. But certain > things must happen for that authority to be considered legitimate. > As a junior officer, who do you follow (remember, as an officer a career is > made by a good conflict, and alot of kissing the right ass)? > Who is right? the commander in chief for remaining faithful to the last > orders given to him by his superior, or the "Civilian Government" with an > "elected" president, and shootings on the congress floor over who was really > elected to that seat by a district they've never even seen? > can you now see the delima? > Sure there are certain issues about it which stretch the bounds of belief, but > this is a role-playing game, and in and of itself, makes it a fantasy game. > Key word being Fantasy. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1998 #15 ************************************