twilight2000-digest Monday, March 23 1998 Volume 1998 : Number 014 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: French Forces NYC Re: French Forces Re: NYC Re: NYC Re: NYC Re: French Forces Re: French Forces Re: French Forces Re: NYC Does anybody have new scenarios? Re: NYC Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Other scenarios Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Re: Other scenarios Re: Other scenarios Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Re: Other scenarios Re: Other scenarios Re: Other scenarios Re: Other scenarios Re: Other scenarios PC Game re:PC Game Re: PC Game Re: PC Game RE: PC Game ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:25:12 -0800 From: Hale Subject: Re: French Forces Chris Brody wrote: > > GTN750 wrote: > > > > I need the numbers and make up for the t2000 timeline. i have tried to find > > stuff in stores but they don't carry it. plus small arms, equipment, and > > vehicles. the sad thing is I am in the army and the post i am at does not > > carry any real info on it either. > > go figure. > > thanks alot, > > glenn > > Glenn, > Alright, I will begin to send you as much information as I have. > Please be patient, though, as I am in school and this is the only time I > have access to E-Mail... > Chris Post it to the list or send me a copy to, if you don't mind. Any reference material would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:21:16 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: NYC I missed "Armies of the Night". Anybody have some good overall data on New York City? Also, what happened to Orinn Ladd's page? Some stuff of mine was posted on his and Heckmac's T:2000 page and they seem to have disappeared. Anybody else with a T:2K page interested in some articles? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:14:11 EST From: GTN750 Subject: Re: French Forces To whoever sent me the french stuff, it was jarbled and my computer could not read it. I thank you for sending it though. It was a nice thing to do in your spare time. Glenn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:06:38 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: NYC >I missed "Armies of the Night". Anybody have some good overall data on >New York City? > >Also, what happened to Orinn Ladd's page? Some stuff of mine was posted >on his and Heckmac's T:2000 page and they seem to have disappeared. >Anybody else with a T:2K page interested in some articles? If Orinn and Heckmac are unable, I'd be happy to post whatever data you may have. Saul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:32:02 EST From: Orrin Ladd Subject: Re: NYC In a message dated 98-03-18 22:22:12 EST, Andrew Borelli writes: << >Also, what happened to Orinn Ladd's page? Some stuff of mine was posted >on his and Heckmac's T:2000 page and they seem to have disappeared. >Anybody else with a T:2K page interested in some articles? >> hello Andrew, Heckmac had to take his webpage down for personal reasons. He sent me the files awhile ago. I haven't had the time or motivation to re-arrange my web page to accomodate his files. If you want your files, I can send them to you. Orrin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:44:17 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: NYC Orrin- Hey there. Thanks for responsing. 'salright, I still have my files around. I would like to see them posted somewhere, however, as they'll never be published now as I first wished. Any takers? It's good stuff! :) Saul- Thanks for responding. Actually, what I should really do is try to get my hands on Armies of the Night. Somebody (might have been Orrin or Heckmac, actually) was nice enough to type up some paragraphs from it for me. Anybody have it for sale or willing to sell a completely photocopied set? To All- Anybody run a good American campaign? I have a group in Europe (the game's been on hiatus for years) who had acheived some measure of success in turning the war back to NATO's favor. But, the idea's getting a little stale and I'm considering running a New York adventure... that's where I live and all. But, reading Howling Wilderness, I wonder. Any thoughts? > hello Andrew, > > Heckmac had to take his webpage down for personal reasons. He sent me the > files awhile ago. I haven't had the time or motivation to re-arrange my web > page to accomodate his files. > > If you want your files, I can send them to you. > > Orrin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:33:00 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: French Forces Hale wrote: > > > > Glenn, > > Alright, I will begin to send you as much information as I have. > > Please be patient, though, as I am in school and this is the only time I > > have access to E-Mail... > > Chris > > Post it to the list or send me a copy to, if you don't mind. Any > reference material would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks in advance > TTFN > Ron Hale Ron, I would be happy to send you a copy as well; I have already been requested NOT to post this information to the list ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:56:39 EST From: GTN750 Subject: Re: French Forces Please do. I would appreciate it. Glenn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:04:59 -0800 From: Hale Subject: Re: French Forces Chris Brody wrote: > Ron, > I would be happy to send you a copy as well; I have already been > requested NOT to post this information to the list ... Go for it. I'm always looking for source material. Thanks TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:43:44 EST From: KAPPAABZ Subject: Re: NYC would you like copies signed by th author? Ill post the data tomorrow sometime, where to go, where to get it, etc..... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:18:37 +0200 From: Pietu Subject: Does anybody have new scenarios? Hi pals, I wondering, does anybody have something i called " Fast Mission/Scenario-idea ", I mean ideas what are invented when you are watching Tv, Movies or CNN. They havent got to be full scenario or even part of it, but just idea. IŽam GM in MERC:2000 and iŽam unable to invent nothing new anymore. I`am very interested to heard these " Fast Ideas " if anyone have. And sorry for my bad English. Mr. Pietu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:11:55 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: NYC Sure, post away. KAPPAABZ wrote: > > would you like copies signed by th author? > > Ill post the data tomorrow sometime, where to go, where to get it, etc..... - -- I remember a time when... The suburbs were sunny and bright, The cities were down and out, Reagan was president, and Pac-Man was king. Good God, I miss those days. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:23:14 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? Hello... I assume you've tried Bosnia missions? That region of the world is still ripe with potential for conflict and intervention. Just one itchy trigger finger... plenty of stuff for Mercs to do, especially in the M:2000 world. The best thing to do is study history itself. Some of the greatest military adventures have happened in real life itself! I would recommend checking out recollections of the Raid on Entebbe, the Battle of Mogadishu, the rescue of American pilot Scott O'Grady in Bosnia (sorry, might have got his name wrong), etc. Movies also provide great ideas, although it's important to strain out the Hollywood stuff first. If you can get your hands on it, "The Wild Geese" (the original, from the 70's) is an excellent flick for source material and a pretty good study of an entire mercenary army. One could also check out sources from other games! Millenium's End has plenty of commando stuff and certainly lots of mission ideas. Ditto for Battletech - they use mercenaries extensively in that game. Have your PCs been going on singular missions? You know, blow up a building here, assassinate somebody there, then go home? It might be time for them to enter a regular campaign. Maybe Ukraine needs experienced troops to help repel a Russian invasion; there's a whole string of adventures waiting to be had. Maybe Germany invades Poland again, and Poland starts screaming for mercs. Perhaps a cash-strapped UK has troubles in Northern Ireland where renewed fighting has broken out and starts hiring. Or, conversely, maybe the IRA starts hiring extensively to throw out the Brits? Hope this helps! Good luck! Pietu wrote: > > Hi pals, > > I wondering, does anybody have something i called " Fast > Mission/Scenario-idea ", I mean ideas what are invented when you are > watching Tv, Movies or CNN. They havent got to be full scenario or even part > of it, but just idea. IŽam GM in MERC:2000 and iŽam unable to invent nothing > new anymore. > > I`am very interested to heard these " Fast Ideas " if anyone have. > > And sorry for my bad English. > > Mr. Pietu - -- I remember a time when... The suburbs were sunny and bright, The cities were down and out, Reagan was president, and Pac-Man was king. Good God, I miss those days. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:54:33 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? At 07:23 AM 3/20/98 -0500, Emperor Palpatine wrote: >Have your PCs been going on singular missions? You know, blow up a >building here, assassinate somebody there, then go home? It might be >time for them to enter a regular campaign. Maybe Ukraine needs >experienced troops to help repel a Russian invasion; there's a whole >string of adventures waiting to be had. Maybe Germany invades Poland >again, and Poland starts screaming for mercs. Perhaps a cash-strapped UK >has troubles in Northern Ireland where renewed fighting has broken out >and starts hiring. Or, conversely, maybe the IRA starts hiring >extensively to throw out the Brits? > Before anyone springs any of these scenarios on players, I think I should point out that most of them aren't even _remotely_ probable. Poland and Germany have settled all border disputes, they have a high trade turnover, and they're in the process of joining the same military alliance (NATO); in fact, relations between the two countries have never been better in their history, and both are them are probably far more concerned about Russia and Belarus than they are about each other. The UK is exactly not "cash-strapped". In fact, its government has the most sound finances of any large country in Europe (although it does certainly have a tight budget--but not to tight to deal with an imminent threat). Nor is it very likely to employ mercenaries on its own territory (Northern Ireland), since it does have a highly trained army and intelligence services; moreover, it's got enough trouble with paramilitary troops from the two fighting sides as it is, and it would look really, REALLY bad for it to be employing the same. I'm not an expert on terrorist groups, but I don't think the IRA does a lot of hiring, but recruits locally, and is actually pretty small (and for that matter, pretty much everyohe on both sides despises the terrorists that are still active, so do players really want to be part of that?). Russia invading Ukraine....Hmm, maybe _remotely_ possible if a strident nationalist like Vladimir Zyuganov (the Communist leader) or Yurii Luzhkov (the populist mayor of Moscow) becomes president and tries to reopen the issue of Ukraine's possession of the Crimea, which contains Russia's big naval base of Sevastopol (although the Communists probably can't win another election, especialy for president, as regional strong men have begun to take over politics, and Luzhkov is pretty much full of it, and willign to say anything to please anyone, and so likely won't try anything). But the Russian army isn't capable of suppressing a revolt in one of its own (tiny) provinces, like Chechnya--indeed it's barely a force in being anymore--and it probably couldn't handle an invasion of a big country like Ukraine (it might be able to invade--though I'm not at all sure it coudl handle the logistics--but there's no way it could handle the occupation), which admittedly doesn't _necessarily_ mean it wouldn't try. This, BTW, does NOT mean there's no fun to be had in the world. For example, central government in Russia is very, very weak, and all kinds of stuff is happening in the regions, especially the more remote ones and the ones with mineral resources (actually, the more remote ones usually _are_ the ones with mineral resources). Regional governors function as local strongmen, organized crime is rampant (and sometimes organized crime bosses get elected governor), armed men are occasionally involved in conflicts, and political and business assassinatin is positively rife. And just about _every_ large business in Russia has a staff of ex-soldiers or ex-spies to provide security and/or threaten competitors (and there are also many securitry firms, some of them fronts for organized crime). There are also a couple of arguably hot ethnic conflicts in the northen Caucasus regions, and if you go outside Russia's borders there are currently at least three inactive wars (the Transdniester in Moldova, Abkhazia in Georgia, and Nagorno-Karabakh in Azerbaijan--and there's still a lot of terrorist incidents in Abkhazia), plus a couple of other ones that haven't really flared up yet. In Central Asia there attempts to repress dissident religions (Wahhabism) and a number of other fun things. And that of course is only the former Soviet Union. There are LOTS of things happening in the world, so you don't have to resort to manufacturing implausible wars. A good place to start might be to read The Economist regularly, since it has news from a lot of places (including Africa, another good location) that we don't much hear about on the evening news here. You could even go to the library and skim back issue from the last few years. Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 04:30:36 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? > Before anyone springs any of these scenarios on players, I think I should > point out that most of them aren't even _remotely_ probable. [SNIP] What you're primarily missing is the fact that this guy isn't running or asking for adventures set in our world, he's running them in the world of Merc: 2000. Sure, the scenarios I mentioned aren't probable, but who cares? Twilight and most of the situations described in M:2K are completely outdated. To play them, you've got to suspend disbelief and your own sense of current events. Sure, in our world, the Russians can't defeat a nation 50 times (if not more) smaller than itself. Hardly seems like the same Red Army that pushed back the Third Reich, huh? But Merc 2000 isn't our world. In *that* world, some of the leading NATO nations *are* cash strapped, things *are* generally starting to come apart, brushfire wars are popping up all over the place, and Germany has already attempted one thwarted invasion of Poland. (This same war, as we all know, is the one that explodes into WW3 in the Twilight timeline.) As for playing terrorists, well, that's up the morality of the players and the GM. It may not be "right" or "nice", but it's a possibility. If they have no problem playing this type of game, and the characters don't care about becoming potential outlaws, then all is well. As a former Cyberpunk ref, apathetic or generally "wrong" behavior amongst characters is part of the game. Sure, the PCs might be portrayed as the protagonists, and might actually do some good in the course of their adventures. Several times, in fact, my group became front-page heros as a direct result of their own actions. But these are the same people who had killed cops and fellow gangsters, stolen goods and data, performed corporate sponsored terrorism, and moved drugs on the sly when cash was tight. How you and the players want to play is a matter amongst yourselves. In the meantime, does the viability of a given scenario matter so long as it's presented cohesively and provides a fun game experience? Following this logic, is the Jane's Longbow simulation less valid because it depicts a Russian attack on the Ukraine, or a second Korean War? The bulk of the Twilight modules set in the US were wildly unrealistic. New America? Please. Bullying redneck dopes with crucifixes and a maniac leader was more like it. But who cares? It was *fun* picking around the wrecks of major cities, especially ones I had actually visited. It's sci-fi escapism. It's no less realistic than watching Red Dawn or playing Fortress America. But it's good for some laughs and we all have a good time. Anyway, for those looking for story ideas, I'd also recommend scanning the newspapers for stories about the Yugoslavian civil war. This little Balkan disaster has a wealth of war stories that probably won't be told for some time, and one could easily think of ways to insert the PCs there. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 04:35:03 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: Other scenarios Given GDW's unfortunate demise, has anyone ever attempted to adopt some of the other genres they were thinking of using the Twilight system to simulate? I was especially interested in "The Iron Dream", which was a military adventure setting placed in World War II, and "Reaction Force" (or something like that), which placed players in a modern-day rapid deployment force reacting to situations like Somalia and the like. I understand GDW had begun work on "Armor 21", which seemed like a mid-future extension of Merc: 2000. Sort of like a post-crash world where everyone's trying to make a rebound, but the balance of power has changed dramatically and everyone's duking it out with some super-hi-tech equipment. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 05:22:36 -0500 From: Scott David Orr Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? At 04:30 AM 3/21/98 -0500, Emperor Palpatine wrote: >> Before anyone springs any of these scenarios on players, I think I should >> point out that most of them aren't even _remotely_ probable. > >[SNIP] > > What you're primarily missing is the fact that this guy isn't running >or asking for adventures set in our world, he's running them in the >world of Merc: 2000. Sure, the scenarios I mentioned aren't probable, >but who cares? Twilight and most of the situations described in M:2K are >completely outdated. To play them, you've got to suspend disbelief and >your own sense of current events. Sure, in our world, the Russians can't >defeat a nation 50 times (if not more) smaller than itself. Hardly seems >like the same Red Army that pushed back the Third Reich, huh? > Well, it isn't. :) It doesn't have the relatively single-minded backing of an entire mult-national empire. > But Merc 2000 isn't our world. In *that* world, some of the leading >NATO nations *are* cash strapped, things *are* generally starting to >come apart, brushfire wars are popping up all over the place, and >Germany has already attempted one thwarted invasion of Poland. (This >same war, as we all know, is the one that explodes into WW3 in the >Twilight timeline.) > I apologize--I'm not really familiar with the Merc 2000 timeline. The T2K was _remotely_ plausible at the time it was written--now it at least serves as a decent alternate timeline. It just seems that there's a whole lot of stuff in the real world for mercs to do, without having to make stuff up. So I think I would vote for updating the Merc 2000 timeline rather than just accepting it--if nothing else, sticking close to reality takes a huge burden off the GM, who no longer has to project alternate history further and further from the point of departure. > As for playing terrorists, well, that's up the morality of the players >and the GM. It may not be "right" or "nice", but it's a possibility. If >they have no problem playing this type of game, and the characters don't >care about becoming potential outlaws, then all is well. As a former >Cyberpunk ref, apathetic or generally "wrong" behavior amongst >characters is part of the game. Sure, the PCs might be portrayed as the >protagonists, and might actually do some good in the course of their >adventures. Several times, in fact, my group became front-page heros as >a direct result of their own actions. But these are the same people who >had killed cops and fellow gangsters, stolen goods and data, performed >corporate sponsored terrorism, and moved drugs on the sly when cash was >tight. How you and the players want to play is a matter amongst >yourselves. > Yes, but I suppose what bothered me about that one particular example is that it's gotten to the point where almost _nobody_ is supporting these guys. They're pretty much in crazed looney territory now. > In the meantime, does the viability of a given scenario matter so long >as it's presented cohesively and provides a fun game experience? >Following this logic, is the Jane's Longbow simulation less valid >because it depicts a Russian attack on the Ukraine, or a second Korean >War? The bulk of the Twilight modules set in the US were wildly >unrealistic. New America? Please. Bullying redneck dopes with crucifixes >and a maniac leader was more like it. But who cares? It was *fun* >picking around the wrecks of major cities, especially ones I had >actually visited. It's sci-fi escapism. It's no less realistic than >watching Red Dawn or playing Fortress America. But it's good for some >laughs and we all have a good time. > Yes, it makes a big difference. The patent unrealism of the later TW2K scenarios (and the stupid thing about shifting climates) was exactly what killed the game for me. You'll also notice that the later scenarios were much more poorly written than the early ones. This isn't a coincidence: the early scenarios were both realistic and well-written because they were carefully thought-out, something that wasn't at all true of the later ones (or, indeed, of the movie Red Dawn, which compounded an implausible scenario with a really ignorant and silly depection of guerilla warfare :). Some players don't care what the scenario is as long as the bullets are flying, but some players do, and it will make a difference for them (and for the players who don't care, why bother trying to find cool-sounding scenarios anyway?). > Anyway, for those looking for story ideas, I'd also recommend scanning >the newspapers for stories about the Yugoslavian civil war. This little >Balkan disaster has a wealth of war stories that probably won't be told >for some time, and one could easily think of ways to insert the PCs >there. > That's true, and in Bosnia, as well as in places like Chechnya and the Caucasus, there've been qutie a few volunteers from other countries (esp. other Muslims countries) who've showed up, often in more than one war. Mind you, these guys weren't in it for the money, so they don't really qualify as mercs (though perhaps the ex-U.S. officers hired to train the Bosnian Croat and Muslim forces do), but they were certainly adventurers. Scott Orr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 03:10:36 -0800 From: Hale Subject: Re: Other scenarios Emperor Palpatine wrote: > Given GDW's unfortunate demise, has anyone ever attempted to adopt some > of the other genres they were thinking of using the Twilight system to > simulate? I was especially interested in "The Iron Dream", which was a > military adventure setting placed in World War II, and "Reaction Force" > (or something like that), which placed players in a modern-day rapid > deployment force reacting to situations like Somalia and the like. Yes, I'm working on WWI, WWII, Korea, & Vietnam games but I also use the T2K rules for another game called The Morrow Project. TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 06:18:07 EST From: Grimace997 Subject: Re: Other scenarios In a message dated 98-03-21 04:36:34 EST, you write: << Given GDW's unfortunate demise, has anyone ever attempted to adopt some of the other genres they were thinking of using the Twilight system to simulate? I was especially interested in "The Iron Dream", which was a military adventure setting placed in World War II, and "Reaction Force" (or something like that), which placed players in a modern-day rapid deployment force reacting to situations like Somalia and the like. >> I am also really interested in the idea of a military setting in World War II. What a wealth of information there is out there. The possibilities would almost be endless. I've gotten as far as looking through all the sourcebooks and determining the extent of WW II weapons and equipment there is in the normal Twilight 2000. After that, everything thing else would have to be from scratch. That is, unless someone out there happens to have any information of World War II equipment in Twilight version statistics. I've tinkered with the vehicles, but I'm not real knowledgable about the weaponry of that era. As a side note, I'm starting up a web page (albeit a simple one at first) that is dealing with Twilight 2000. Currently I am putting up an idea for a mini- campaign that I created some years ago. If I acquire enough information on a World War II version, I might be so inclined to put it on my page as well. If anyone has stats or thoughts on this, let me know. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:13:41 -0800 From: Pablo Escoverra Subject: Re: Does anybody have new scenarios? > Movies also provide great ideas, although it's important to strain out > the Hollywood stuff first. If you can get your hands on it, "The Wild > Geese" (the original, from the 70's) is an excellent flick for source > material and a pretty good study of an entire mercenary army. On that same note the restored version of Bridge on the River Kwai is probably one of the best war movies ever made, and truly inspiring for the potential mission. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:27:42 -0800 From: Pablo Escoverra Subject: Re: Other scenarios For a truly excellent source of information on small arms check out " Small arms of the world " published in 1983 by Stackpole Books. ISBN no. 0-88029-601-1. What you get is 894 pages of pictures, charts, stats, and histories of all military firearms made between the turn of the century and 1983. Anybody interested in firearms at all should at least look for a copy of this book at their local Litbrary. You should find everything you need to know and then some about WW2 small arms here. Grimace997 wrote: > In a message dated 98-03-21 04:36:34 EST, you write: > > << > Given GDW's unfortunate demise, has anyone ever attempted to adopt some > of the other genres they were thinking of using the Twilight system to > simulate? I was especially interested in "The Iron Dream", which was a > military adventure setting placed in World War II, and "Reaction Force" > (or something like that), which placed players in a modern-day rapid > deployment force reacting to situations like Somalia and the like. > >> > I am also really interested in the idea of a military setting in World War II. > What a wealth of information there is out there. The possibilities would > almost be endless. I've gotten as far as looking through all the sourcebooks > and determining the extent of WW II weapons and equipment there is in the > normal Twilight 2000. After that, everything thing else would have to be from > scratch. That is, unless someone out there happens to have any information of > World War II equipment in Twilight version statistics. I've tinkered with the > vehicles, but I'm not real knowledgable about the weaponry of that era. > > As a side note, I'm starting up a web page (albeit a simple one at first) that > is dealing with Twilight 2000. Currently I am putting up an idea for a mini- > campaign that I created some years ago. If I acquire enough information on a > World War II version, I might be so inclined to put it on my page as well. If > anyone has stats or thoughts on this, let me know. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:54:18 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: Other scenarios >As a side note, I'm starting up a web page (albeit a simple one at first) that >is dealing with Twilight 2000. Currently I am putting up an idea for a mini- >campaign that I created some years ago. If I acquire enough information on a >World War II version, I might be so inclined to put it on my page as well. If >anyone has stats or thoughts on this, let me know. Once you have the URL, please let us know. Saul ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:07:29 EST From: Grimace997 Subject: Re: Other scenarios Here's the URL for the web page that I have. Once again, bear with me, as I am just a newbie at all of this web stuff. http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Stadium/9022/ Let me know what you think. I don't believe that I have an e-mail link there yet, so I'll give you my e-mail address here. Grimace997@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:21:05 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Other scenarios Infantry Weapons of the World has some weapons from WWII, although I really don't know that much about them either. Grimace997 wrote: > > In a message dated 98-03-21 04:36:34 EST, you write: > > << > Given GDW's unfortunate demise, has anyone ever attempted to adopt some > of the other genres they were thinking of using the Twilight system to > simulate? I was especially interested in "The Iron Dream", which was a > military adventure setting placed in World War II, and "Reaction Force" > (or something like that), which placed players in a modern-day rapid > deployment force reacting to situations like Somalia and the like. > >> > I am also really interested in the idea of a military setting in World War II. > What a wealth of information there is out there. The possibilities would > almost be endless. I've gotten as far as looking through all the sourcebooks > and determining the extent of WW II weapons and equipment there is in the > normal Twilight 2000. After that, everything thing else would have to be from > scratch. That is, unless someone out there happens to have any information of > World War II equipment in Twilight version statistics. I've tinkered with the > vehicles, but I'm not real knowledgable about the weaponry of that era. > > As a side note, I'm starting up a web page (albeit a simple one at first) that > is dealing with Twilight 2000. Currently I am putting up an idea for a mini- > campaign that I created some years ago. If I acquire enough information on a > World War II version, I might be so inclined to put it on my page as well. If > anyone has stats or thoughts on this, let me know. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:21:58 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Other scenarios Pablo Escoverra wrote: > > For a truly excellent source of information on small arms check out " Small arms > of the world " published in 1983 by Stackpole Books. ISBN no. 0-88029-601-1. What > you get is 894 pages of pictures, charts, stats, and histories of all military > firearms made between the turn of the century and 1983. Anybody interested in > firearms at all should at least look for a copy of this book at their local > Litbrary. > You should find everything you need to know and then some about WW2 small arms > here. > I saw this book at the library once and it is pretty good. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:02:46 -0500 From: Emperor Palpatine Subject: PC Game Hello all- Though I've been warned it was terrible, does anyone know where I could obtain a copy of the Twilight: 2000 computer game? Has it been downgraded to freeware or abandonware yet? Who actually made the game? - -- I remember a time when... The suburbs were sunny and bright, The cities were down and out, Reagan was president, and Pac-Man was king. God, I miss those days. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 98 15:37:41 CST From: "Scot Johnson" Subject: re:PC Game I have it, somewhere. On 5.25 and maybe 3.5 disks. Although I have heard of people playing it, my copy was essentially unplayable due to bugs. The whole vehicle system was hosed. Plus combat was a joke, the grenade launcher was king against people, the scale seemed off so that the fragmentation patterns were huge and deadly. The one nice part was the character generation, very automated and quick. I can't remember the publisher, I'm sure it wasn't one of the big ones, even back then. If you're really interested I can dig it up in a few months, and give more info or mail it out as a freebie. Scot sjohnson@ttiadmin.tamu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:57:43 -0800 From: Rob Subject: Re: PC Game At 15:02 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all- > > Though I've been warned it was terrible, does anyone know where I could >obtain a copy of the Twilight: 2000 computer game? Has it been >downgraded to freeware or abandonware yet? Who actually made the game? Actually, I have a copy of Twilight:2000 on 3.25 disks. The game was very repititious, combat ... in comparison to Fallout (an outstanding Post-Nuke RPG) ... was pretty bare, and overall I wouldn't spend too much to get my hands on it. I haven't seen or heard of anyone having it in print still, and I think it was made by Paragon. If you're interested, the game is doing nothing more than gather dust in a box my bedroom with a few other old RPGs from the 80s ... Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:04:35 -0600 From: Arthur William Dougherty II Subject: Re: PC Game The computer publisher for Twilight 2000 was called Paragon, but I haven't been able to find the game anywhere. I had it on 5.25 disks a while ago but I'm not sure where they are. The game was okay, but very repetitive. Someone else mentioned the character generation, which was good, and I think it allowed you to print the character out to be used with the paper and pencil version. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:57:59 -0500 From: Werwolf Subject: RE: PC Game - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD569E.5D8794F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The computer game is by Paragon Software. The game itself is pretty basic, although it does try and retain the = character of the RPG. Character generation is almost exactly like the = book and you can make up to twenty characters in a platoon. Equipment = is like the book although it is lacking in some items (you can't buy = explosives or mines or generators for example, but I'm not quite sure = whether they exist in the game or not...haven't got that far yet). = You will run into hidden codes. And you recieve vehicles after = performing certain missions (HMMVW's, Tanks, etc). By basic I mean that the graphics are not outstanding. All in all, the computer version is an alternative to playing the RPG, = especially since playing the RPG by yourself isn't very exciting. As for the game being freeware, I don't know. I found mine in a = computer store and paid about $5 for it (used). Hello all- Though I've been warned it was terrible, does anyone know where I could obtain a copy of the Twilight: 2000 computer game? Has it been downgraded to freeware or abandonware yet? Who actually made the game? - --=20 I remember a time when...=20 The suburbs were sunny and bright, The cities were down and out, Reagan was president, and Pac-Man was king. God, I miss those days. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD569E.5D8794F0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgEBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAJAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAYAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAASQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHR3aWxpZ2h0MjAwMEBN UEdOLkNPTQBTTVRQAHR3aWxpZ2h0MjAwMEBNUEdOLkNPTQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAA AB4AAzABAAAAFgAAAHR3aWxpZ2h0MjAwMEBNUEdOLkNPTQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEw AQAAABgAAAAndHdpbGlnaHQyMDAwQE1QR04uQ09NJwACAQswAQAAABsAAABTTVRQOlRXSUxJR0hU MjAwMEBNUEdOLkNPTQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAZVMAEEgAEADAAA AFJFOiBQQyBHYW1lAB4DAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcDABcAFAA5ADsAAQB4AQEggAMADgAAAM4HAwAXABQA OQA7AAEAeAEBCYABACEAAAAzOTYyRjRFNUIzQzJEMTExOTlENjQyOEIzNzAwMDAwMADfBgEDkAYA AAYAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ALD8tkXI Vr0BHgBwAAEAAAAMAAAAUkU6IFBDIEdhbWUAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb1WyEWw5fRiQMKzEdGZ1kKL NwAAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABib290Ym95QG5pYWdhcmEuY29t AAMABhDEXyCJAwAHEPADAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABUSEVDT01QVVRFUkdBTUVJU0JZUEFSQUdPTlNP RlRXQVJFVEhFR0FNRUlUU0VMRklTUFJFVFRZQkFTSUMsQUxUSE9VR0hJVERPRVNUUllBTkRSRVRB SU5USEVDSEFSQUNURVJPAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAggQAAH4EAAAHBwAATFpGdQwU0tX/AAoBDwIVAqQD 5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCgyIzD3poZWwDIERsymcCgzQTD2Y1D38Q hC59CoAIzwnZOxlPMjUeNQKACoENsQtgbmcxvDAzFCALChXCDAFjAEAqIAqFVBTwIAWgbXBEdXQE kCBnYQeAIEEEACBieSBQCsBhVmcCIAYAbwGAdwrAZZYuHjkfdHQR8GxmH7JOcBlQAkAgAGJhAJBj JCwgB0B0aAhgZ2iRIiEgZG8HkXRyIAD5AHBkICLhC3EksB6yEcEPANAfMiCwJaNSUEcuaCAgQyYH ZwnwBJBhvHRpIHEfwQdABGBzBUAUZXgmMWwgAGxpa6cewCWyBuBvayTzeQhgTx7QA5EAwCnxdXAk sG99JLB3CfAjESX3BCAlgWEfIsALYCvwAiAnMUVxdf8FIAeAAjAfsindI8ku0gDQamsLgGctMnMD cCISZSptBCAoKvUnBUBidc8gAClQC1ApEGl2B5EFsf5tC4AzpCgFBbAEIAIQBcBzKVEfAGxlI5Ay 4AVASeAnbSBubwVALkEfMPcxcAhwHsB3FPAlsQXAJbF/MwIEAC6xJZQfcwWxNpEu/znQEcAzkDKi IGAFQCPQKFALNTAKwXkSADxnPimdJzFZKwED8BURcnUokeMCMCwAaGlkDbADoAWgtQ2wcycxQSrF GVBjCJDtM5AgM5A9EGM10CjBAYC9H0FwBJA1QTQBMTBjBJAfJWM0AAQQKHEyEUhNTVBWVydzI5BU AHBru0IhEgBjO7AKhQqFQiMlezZAK2BlA5E6wzjjIEBw/z8hKME3UTaSCGAiQAGQJRD7MRFDDUEV ES1CFRAjkCWzvx72M5AR4Ch2SIIfMW4oUXc+0SvxC1F5MRImxUKhc98/8D6gSKEgAACQbkCgS47/ H+Iq8RHhInMyoknBMwI+oJsoYEcvQTUkOOdiZTESfwNQCeAg4iOQRIAkcDKia/02kHcnMUSAAhA8 kCUgNAL/LTQe5ykgBbAewCUCCrA9IGcjoAbgNiEkNTUzJEEoOnUR8GRC9wr0KdAxOIIwAtFpLTE0 NA3wzwzQWgMLVRbyMTYKoANgzx8wJkAeJlidMzZapx2F3VumSBUBLABIoS1cLQGR/x6RI/M2UD7R UpA9USDhKCD/JSAkQSDgJKEEkAUQAmA14f8kcwBwKvBVIVQSN3I3UUSAkQWgdWxkCoVvYiVjrVWC cCAAJpVUPDFpJBC4dDogAdBZoB7cP18Q32KxJEFhsgqFJHB3HFAgQP8NsCUgK/FS9jPCAaAlAQIg d2tDO1Fo4Fcj4COgJkB1L00DAMANsDjXP0McLS3/HiZEgBlQB4AG0B9BLXAoYH8fkTeBLfA50B4q NzAy4HLeYgQgLDA3UTcwbmPgJPP2YgUQZ3EsHjpQUQeRctPvaiIk80aRdCZSRLAfcGHiPyKzAJA9 QXQXJQIgIGMt7k13JTECISZHBHBTckEi/yWhKRB1gUuwPcBDHAqFGHECAH1gAAADABAQAAAAAAMA ERABAAAAQAAHMNB80InFVr0BQAAIMFCDuEXIVr0BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcA AMHB - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD569E.5D8794F0-- ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1998 #14 ************************************