twilight2000-digest Friday, November 21 1997 Volume 1996 : Number 062 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Fwd: M1 Amhpibious capability...(?!) Character Generation Skills Re: Character Generation Skills Re: Character Generation Skills Re: Newbie with a question Re: Newbie with a question Updates Carry Capacity/Encumbrance WTB: Twilight 2K RPG Two part question on floorplans Re: Carry Capacity/Encumbrance Re: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG Re: Carry Capacity/Encumbrance Re: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG Re: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG RE: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG Blackhawk Stats Re: Blackhawk Stats _City of Angels_ Module Re: _City of Angels_ Module Re: Blackhawk Stats Re: _City of Angels_ Module Re: Blackhawk Stats Aircraft Re: Aircraft Re: _City of Angels_ Module Re: Aircraft Re: _City of Angels_ Module Re: Aircraft Re: Aircraft ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 14:10:50 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: Fwd: M1 Amhpibious capability...(?!) As far back as good ole' WWII, nations (particularly the US) have experimented with making their tanks "amphibious". This often consists of nothing more than large collapsable snorkel tubes ... (oh yeah, can't forget about water-proofing the hatches ;-] ). One rather interesting mod to an armored vehicile was the British attempting to ring their vehiciles with flotation devices to come ashore quicker during the D-Day landings. An interesting thought ... I'm not sure how well it worked. Anyway, I have seen photos of Soviet and Warsaw Pact MBTs (I believe T-55s and T-62s) that used the same type of collapsable snorkel for long river crossings /assaults. I suppose it is safe to say that the idea of turning a tank into an amphibious vehicle has been around for quite awhile and it is entirely possible that US forces are reviving the concept in the modern day. ~Cbrody OrrinLadd@aol.com wrote: > > got this from the command decision list. anybody know what he's talking > about? > --------------------- > Forwarded message: > From: nicholas_moran@ie.ibm.com > Sender: owner-cdmailer@primenet.com > Reply-to: cdmailer@primenet.com > To: cdmailer@primenet.com > Date: 97-11-05 15:03:44 EST > > Date: 03/11/97 3:23 PM > Subject: M1 Amhpibious capability...(?!) > > Hail All! > Was watching a video clip of M1s in action, and in one scene, taken > from what looks to be a camera strapped to the 50 cal at the > Commander's hatch, the Abrams dives off a landing craft, and as befits > its 65 ton weight promptly sinks. (To well over the top of the turret) > ..Change view to another angle, and one sees the tank driving out of the > water onto a beach with this great big schnorkel on the engine deck. Is > this an experiment, or a feature common only to the Marines' tanks or > all M1s? Should there be an 's' after the movement ratings? > > NTM > > Forget the bullet with your name on it, it's the one addressed 'To Whom > it concerns' that you should worry about. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 21:55:58 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Character Generation Skills Alright. I think the Twilight: 2000 character skill list is both complete and incomplete. I have had little success thinking of new traits, but I think there needs to be more... Perhaps even splitting a current trait into two or more parts... In any case, if anyone has some ideas for traits (they donot have to necessarily relate to the military), let me know. I'd like to hear them. Thanks! Saul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Nov 1997 09:31:38 +0200 From: Pietu Subject: Re: Character Generation Skills At 21:55 6.11.1997 -0800, you wrote: > > Alright. I think the Twilight: 2000 character skill list is both complete >and incomplete. I have had little success thinking of new traits, but I >think there needs to be more... I think that adding Willpower-skill to skill-list may be good. It can be tested every time when charater want=B4s to do something poring or hopeless works. This skill is in Traveller New Era, and we have used it well. Adding it to Twilight may have some problems ( Were you can get more Willpower? ).=20 =20 Mr. Pietu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 23:48:09 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: Character Generation Skills > I think that adding Willpower-skill to skill-list may be >good. It can be tested every time when charater want=B4s to do something >poring or hopeless works. This skill is in Traveller New Era, and we have >used it well. Adding it to Twilight may have some problems ( Were you can >get more Willpower? ). Sounds good. Willpower is also used in Vampire, it's a good trait to have. I would think that it could be gained back by accomplishing certain task of heroic in nature, good strategic planning, ect. Btw, for any of you who care to know; Today is the 80th Anniversery of the Bolshevik Revolution. :) 'Workers of the World Unite!' Saul ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 00:34:10 -0600 From: George Anderson Subject: Re: Newbie with a question How do I unsubscribe? At 12:27 AM 11/6/97 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > >---shonnie holmes wrote: > >> but.....if you collect the bones and boil for 6 >hours at 380; add 1 pound >> butter, a pinch of salt, EASY on the pepper. Now >drinks this and you will >> become sick. > >Doubt it. >_____________________________________________________________________ >Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 02:03:39 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: Newbie with a question A Fascinating progression of discussion... ... unsubscribe [
] Unsubscribe yourself (or
if specified) from the named . "unsubscribe *" will remove you (or
) from all lists. This _may not_ work if you have subscribed using multiple addresses. Eg. Send mail to majordomo, then in the body of the message: unsubscribe twilight2000 . >How do I unsubscribe? > > >At 12:27 AM 11/6/97 -0800, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >>---shonnie holmes wrote: >> >>> but.....if you collect the bones and boil for 6 >>hours at 380; add 1 pound >>> butter, a pinch of salt, EASY on the pepper. Now >>drinks this and you will >>> become sick. >> >>Doubt it. >>_____________________________________________________________________ >>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 21:17:37 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Updates Hey everyone, I've added the following pages in the past two weeks or so: http://www.seattleu.edu/~musides/Twilight/Marine.html http://www.seattleu.edu/~musides/Twilight/Ranger.html They are excerpts from the handbook for Marine's and Rangers. I have no idea where they came from, I just found them lying around about a week ago.... If anyone knows, let me know. Thanks. I've also updated the weapons pages to be easier to read and have added more weapons (Shotguns!), thanks again to Chris Brody. http://www.seattleu.edu/~musides/Twilight/Weapons.html (and all the subsections of this page: Pistols, Rifles, SubMG, MG, and Shotguns) Also I've been working on the Battle Of Kalisz, but am not yet finished. Lastly, I've changed a whole slew of URLs, but the main page is still http://www.seattleu.edu/~musides/Twilight.html . No one should have any problems, but if you do let me know. Thanks, and enjoy! Regards, Saul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 10:36:25 -0800 From: Hale Subject: Carry Capacity/Encumbrance I'm sure that all of you Refs out there have had the problem of; "I can carry it, and I'm still under may carry capacity", after explaining that it is to much stuff or to big. Ok, we all know that the size of an object can change its effective weight, right? So, if the above is correct than, what does everyone think of assigning something like an encumbrance value to all items. Small arms already have them, although to come up with something that will work for all man portable items we might need to change the listings for small arms. Just thinking out load, but I would like opinions. TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 14:28:13 -0500 From: Allan Ong Subject: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG does anyone have an old copy of the Twilight 2000 RPG rulebook? I'm interested in buying a copy...never knew GDW went under... - -- ________________________________________________________ Allan Ong , 617-873-3459 10 Moulton St. Mailstop 6/2d ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:52:43 -0800 From: Hale Subject: Two part question on floorplans Part 1 Does anyone out there have maps done in the 1 or 2 meter tactical grid format. Of course I'm refering to maps other than those from the different modules & sourcebooks. Part 2 Does anyone know of a program that would overlay a picture with the 1 or 2 meter grid. Please if you do, let me know. TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 15:45:26 -0500 From: Scott Lazzari Subject: Re: Carry Capacity/Encumbrance Hale - I always used the common sense rule - I know what I can carry (and used to carry), and just apply it to them. It works real well if you're friends with the PC's, but if you are running a group with some troublemakers, or 'rule mongers', I wouldn't reccommend it. Scott Lazzari slazzari@tciconsulting.com http://mbordeaux.ne.mediaone.net/scott/ ICQ UIN: 2098756 - ----- 10:36 AM 11/10/97 -0800,Hale you wrote ----- >I'm sure that all of you Refs out there have had the problem of; "I can >carry it, and I'm still under may carry capacity", after explaining that >it is to much stuff or to big. >Ok, we all know that the size of an object can change its effective >weight, right? >So, if the above is correct than, what does everyone think of assigning >something like an encumbrance value to all items. Small arms already >have them, although to come up with something that will work for all man >portable items we might need to change the listings for small arms. >Just thinking out load, but I would like opinions. >TTFN >Ron Hale > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 13:05:15 -0800 From: Hale Subject: Re: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG Allan Ong wrote: > does anyone have an old copy of the Twilight 2000 RPG rulebook? I'm > interested in buying a copy...never knew GDW went under... Which version? TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 16:48:55 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: Carry Capacity/Encumbrance >So, if the above is correct than, what does everyone think of assigning >something like an encumbrance value to all items. Small arms already >have them, although to come up with something that will work for all man >portable items we might need to change the listings for small arms. >Just thinking out load, but I would like opinions. Sounds good to me. This is a good thing to bring up, in light of the Equipment handbook being constructed... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:35:16 -0500 From: Allan Ong Subject: Re: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG At 13:05 11/10/97 -0800, you wrote: >Allan Ong wrote: >> does anyone have an old copy of the Twilight 2000 RPG rulebook? I'm >> interested in buying a copy...never knew GDW went under... any version, though I'd prefer the newest one (softcover manual) > >Which version? >TTFN >Ron Hale > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:29:01 -0800 From: Hale Subject: Re: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG Allan Ong wrote: > any version, though I'd prefer the newest one (softcover manual) I don't have an extra copy of any of them, but try this guy. Quincey Koziol, his e-mail address is koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu Mr. Koziol is one of the owner of an online store, I have done some business with, if he doen't have it he might be able to find it. TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 14:06:26 -0600 From: Terrell Scoggins Subject: RE: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCEEAC.AB6D8BC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or you can browse his catalog at http://www.titan-games.com Terrell Scoggins - -----Original Message----- From: Hale [SMTP:rrrj@c-zone.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 1997 12:29 PM To: twilight2000@mpgn.com Subject: Re: WTB: Twilight 2K RPG Allan Ong wrote: > any version, though I'd prefer the newest one (softcover manual) I don't have an extra copy of any of them, but try this guy. Quincey Koziol, his e-mail address is koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu Mr. Koziol is one of the owner of an online store, I have done some business with, if he doen't have it he might be able to find it. 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While on the subject of Twilight 2000 products, does anyone know where in the UK I could find anything from the first or second editions ? My collection is far from complete, but I was lucky enough just last week to pick up the Soviet and American vehicle guides(1st Edition) and the RDF sourcebook from my local games store. A few weeks ago there was some discussion about a Twilight 2000 netbook, I would be willing to contribute to this so who's idea was it ? Thanks, Chris. 9607794c@student.gla.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:07:44 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: Blackhawk Stats Christopher Alan Cranston wrote: > > I was wondering if someone could please e-mail me the statistics for the > UH-60A blackhawk since I do not own a copy of the Nautical/Aviation > handbook. While on the subject of Twilight 2000 products, does anyone know > where in the UK I could find anything from the first or second editions ? > My collection is far from complete, but I was lucky enough just last week > to pick up the Soviet and American vehicle guides(1st Edition) and the RDF > sourcebook from my local games store. A few weeks ago there was some > discussion about a Twilight 2000 netbook, I would be willing to contribute > to this so who's idea was it ? > > Thanks, > Chris. > 9607794c@student.gla.ac.uk I just read your Message today (17Nov1997); I'll get that information to you ASAP (hopefully tomorrow!). ~Cbrody ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:36:36 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: _City of Angels_ Module Does anyone out there have any information on an older Twilight module called _City of Angels_ ? If anyone could help, i would really appreciate it!! Thanks ~Cbrody ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:25:26 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Callahan Subject: Re: _City of Angels_ Module Greetings: > Does anyone out there have any information on an older Twilight module > called _City of Angels_ ? If anyone could help, i would really > appreciate it!! Thanks What information do you need? It was put published by a company called 3W, it was numbered 401, I think. Had a few new weapons in back (primarily Recoilless Rifles). Anything else I would have to look up at home. - -C ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:55:41 -0800 From: Saul Basgen Subject: Re: Blackhawk Stats >I was wondering if someone could please e-mail me the statistics for the >UH-60A blackhawk since I do not own a copy of the Nautical/Aviation >handbook. Price: $22,500,000 Armament: 2 M60 door guns Ammo: 1000x7.62mmN Load: 1100 Kg (internal); 3600 kg slung load at expense of internal capacity Veh Wt: 22 tons Mnt: 12 TrMov: 1076 ComMov: 29 Fuel Cap: 3500 Fule Cons:3500 A few weeks ago there was some >discussion about a Twilight 2000 netbook, I would be willing to contribute >to this so who's idea was it ? I'm not sure who started the idea, but Kappaabz is collecting all the data... KAPPAABZ@aol.com - ---- http://www.seattleu.edu/~musides/Soviet.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:32:07 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: _City of Angels_ Module Christopher Callahan wrote: > > Greetings: > > > What information do you need? It was put published by a company called 3W, > it was numbered 401, I think. Had a few new weapons in back (primarily > Recoilless Rifles). Anything else I would have to look up at home. > > -C I was just looking for basic information on the module ... I have heard of it and it sounded interesting -- thanks for your response! ~Cbrody ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:22:18 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: Blackhawk Stats Chris Brody wrote: > > Christopher Alan Cranston wrote: > > > > I was wondering if someone could please e-mail me the statistics for the > > UH-60A blackhawk since I do not own a copy of the Nautical/Aviation > > handbook. While on the subject of Twilight 2000 products, does anyone know > > where in the UK I could find anything from the first or second editions ? > > My collection is far from complete, but I was lucky enough just last week > > to pick up the Soviet and American vehicle guides(1st Edition) and the RDF > > sourcebook from my local games store. A few weeks ago there was some > > discussion about a Twilight 2000 netbook, I would be willing to contribute > > to this so who's idea was it ? > > > > Thanks, > > Chris. > > 9607794c@student.gla.ac.uk > Here are the full stats for the Blackhawk helicopter as they appear in the _Nautical/Aviation Handbook_. Hope it helps! UH-60 Blackhawk (Rotary-Wing Aircraft) The Blackhawk is the current U.S. Army transport and utility helicopter. Statistics for the troop transport version are given, although several variants exsist. No ejection seats are provided, and the helicopter is capable of in-flight refueling via a nose probe. Merc:2000 Price: $11,250,000 (R/C) Twilight:2000 Price: $22,500,000 (S/R) Armament: two M60 door guns (P/S) Ammo: 1000 x 7.62N Fuel Type: AvG Load: 1100kg (internal); 3600kg slung load at expense of internal capacity Veh Wt: 22tons Crew: 3+11 Mnt: 12 Minimum Landing/Takeoff Zone: 48m Damage Record Crewmembers: Pilot O Copilot O Crew cheif O Passengers: 1O 2O 3O 4O 5O 6O 7O 8O 9O 10O 11O Radio: O Instruments: O Controls: O M60 Door Gun 1: O M60 Door Gun 2: O Ammo: O Engine: O Fuel (%Consumed or Destroyed): OOOOO OOOOO Tr Mov: 1076 Com Mov: 29 Fuel Cap: 3500 Fuel Cons: 3500 Combat Equipment Integral chaff and flare dispensers, IR Suppression - -------------------Weapon Data---------------- Weapon ROF Dam Pen Blk Mag SS Brst Rng M60 5 4 2-3-N 6 100B 1 1 125 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 18:10:40 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Aircraft While everyone's on the topic of aircraft... what exactly are the damage rules for aircraft? I was looking for the nautical and aviation handbook but Twilight:2000 stuff is getting really hard to find. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html Apocalypse Software E-mail: Apocalypsesw@rocketmail.com Apocalypse Software web page: http://www.keast.com/apocalypse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:26:05 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: Aircraft Peter Vieth wrote: > > While everyone's on the topic of aircraft... what exactly are the damage > rules for aircraft? I have a copy of the _Nautical / Aviation Handbook_ and could send you info on aircraft damage rules, is there anything in particular you want to know?? ~Cbrody ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:30:40 -0500 (EST) From: Hruggek@aol.com Subject: Re: _City of Angels_ Module I ran it and read it, one of the best ever done ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:43:11 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Aircraft Chris Brody wrote: > > Peter Vieth wrote: > > > > While everyone's on the topic of aircraft... what exactly are the damage > > rules for aircraft? > > I have a copy of the _Nautical / Aviation Handbook_ and could send you > info on aircraft damage rules, is there anything in particular you want > to know?? > ~Cbrody What sort of stuff is in the handbook (are there just a few aircraft or many, etc)? The damage rules would be nice-- I have one copy of the eternal soldier, and it contains 3 aircraft, but I can't use them because I don't know how to apply damaged to them. I suppose if you have a scanner it would be possible to scan the damage rules. Otherwise it might be too time consuming to write them. I don't know. Is there anything else important with use of aircraft? Movement and fuel consumption are fairly obvious. Oh yes how are attacks on aircraft by surface to air missiles treated? - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com, Fitek@geocities.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html Apocalypse Software E-mail: Apocalypsesw@rocketmail.com Apocalypse Software web page: http://www.keast.com/apocalypse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:42:03 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: _City of Angels_ Module Hruggek@aol.com wrote: > > I ran it and read it, one of the best ever done Thanks for the feedback! ~Cbrody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:24:23 -0800 From: Chris Brody Subject: Re: Aircraft Peter Vieth wrote: > > What sort of stuff is in the handbook (are there just a few aircraft or > many, etc)? > The damage rules would be nice-- I have one copy of the eternal soldier, > and it contains 3 aircraft, but I can't use them because I don't know > how to apply damaged to them. I suppose if you have a scanner it would > be possible to scan the damage rules. Otherwise it might be too time > consuming to write them. I don't know. Is there anything else important > with use of aircraft? Movement and fuel consumption are fairly obvious. > Oh yes how are attacks on aircraft by surface to air missiles treated? > > -- Hi Peter, As far as aircraft selection goes, there are quite a few examples, ranging from an auto-gyro (pretty strange!) to the C-141 Starlifter transport aircraft. Most common Western aircraft are covered (F16, F15, Toronado, Harrier, etc.). If there is a particular aircraft you are interested in, let me know, I could type it up real quick and send it to you. If the aircraft is not covered in the Handbook, that's no problem! I have created quite a few vehicles for the game by using their actual specifications and exsisting game rules. Also, I am thinking about putting togeather an "Aviation Supplement" to fill in the gaps left by the original Handbook -- if interested, let me know. As far as damage rules and all that go, I don't have a scanner, but can type up the main rules and send them to you. Unfortunately, the only access I have to E-Mail is here at my college, so it may be a few days. In any case, I will get this information out to you ASAP; if there's anything else you need, let me know. ~Cbrody ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:27:09 -0800 From: Peter Vieth Subject: Re: Aircraft This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------6921165A2BA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually I'd like to know the stats for the Mi-24, AH-1, CH-46 Chinook, and Apache if they're in there. Attack aircraft like the A-10 would be useful too, but type up as many as you want to. I could probably make up the stats for the helos if I had two of them. Yes, I would be interested in the Aviation Supplement. I was in the process of shortening the rules (I've taken most of the 2nd edition rule book, with the exception of the fatigue rules and the ship rules). The whole thing is like 5 pages long so far-- its useful to have. I've attached whats done, in Word 6 format. - -- Peter Vieth Fitek@ix.netcom.com, Fitek@geocities.com IGZ Handle: Fitek ICQ UIN: 3660410 Web page: http://www.netcom.com/~Fitek/index.html Apocalypse Software E-mail: Apocalypsesw@rocketmail.com Apocalypse Software web page: http://www.keast.com/apocalypse - --------------6921165A2BA Content-Type: application/msword; name="t2000.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="t2000.doc" e1xydGYxXGFuc2lcYW5zaWNwZzEyNTJcdWMxIFxkZWZmMFxkZWZsYW5nMTAzM1xkZWZsYW5n ZmUxMDMze1xmb250dGJse1xmMFxmcm9tYW5cZmNoYXJzZXQwXGZwcnEye1wqXHBhbm9zZSAw MjAyMDYwMzA1MDQwNTAyMDMwNH1UaW1lcyBOZXcgUm9tYW47fX17XGNvbG9ydGJsO1xyZWQw XGdyZWVuMFxibHVlMDtccmVkMFxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTI1NTtccmVkMFxncmVlbjI1NVxibHVl MjU1O1xyZWQwXGdyZWVuMjU1XGJsdWUwO1xyZWQyNTVcZ3JlZW4wXGJsdWUyNTU7XHJlZDI1 NVxncmVlbjBcYmx1ZTA7XHJlZDI1NVxncmVlbjI1NVxibHVlMDtccmVkMjU1XGdyZWVuMjU1 XGJsdWUyNTU7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4wXGJsdWUxMjg7XHJlZDBcZ3JlZW4xMjhcYmx1ZTEyODtc 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