twilight2000-digest Friday, August 29 1997 Volume 1996 : Number 051 The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Finns?...Where are the Finns? Re: Finnish modules Re: Finns?...Where are the Finns? Re: What happened in Austria and Italy during war Re: Finns?...Where are the Finns? Rating the Modules Re: Rating the Modules Re: Rating the Modules Re: Rating the Modules Re: Weapons New Adventure on line Austria weapons Re: weapons Re: Initiative [none] Re: Re: Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Newbie Re: Newbie Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Todays subject RE: Newbie RE: Todays subject Re: Todays subject Twilight Question (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: KAPPAABZ@aol.com Subject: Re: Finns?...Where are the Finns? In a message dated 97-07-18 10:25:18 EDT, you write: << I have several copies of these Finnish modules for those who are really desperate (as well as a supply of T2K modules). Email me at FarFuture@aol.com. >> Marc, good to see your name pop up on the list, I think all the twilight (and ex-GDW) fans are desparate for anything that is being sat upon and not utilized. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:03:22 +0100 From: Matti Aistrich Subject: Re: Finnish modules CardSharks@aol.com wrote: > I have dug out the following items from deep archives: > > Koopen Haminaan. (Twilight: 2000 module 1990). In Finnish. About a gunboat in > Finland. PLOT INFORMATION! Actually Koopenhaminaan, which means "To Copenhagen". The PCs board a Finnish gunboat (trader, nowadays) in Poland which is supposed to take them to Copenhagen -- the start of a trip back to the U.S./U.K. But they get ambushed by pirates in the Finnish coast and become prisoners in Helsinki, Finland. > Erikois Joukot (Twilight: 2000 module 1990). In Finnish. Special Operations. Actually Erikoisjoukot. A sourcebook on special forces, both NATO and East Bloc. Character generation rules for 1st Ed. The 2nd Ed. had just come out, there are no character generation rules for it, but a weapons section includes 2nd Ed. stats. > Pohjois Maat Lahdekirja (Twilight: 2000 module 1990). In Finnish. About the > Scandinavian countries. Actually Pohjoismaat Lahdekirja. Sourcebook about the Nordic countries, history during the war, current leaders, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:45:20 -0400 (EDT) From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: Finns?...Where are the Finns? In a message dated 97-07-17 03:20:23 EDT, Matti writes: << > Awhile back, someone had stated that a Finnish company had published three > supplements to Twilight 2000, but these were only available in Europe. Could They're in Finnish.>> I forgot about that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:05:23 -0400 (EDT) From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: What happened in Austria and Italy during war In a message dated 97-07-18 16:59:13 EDT, Ron writes: << I don't have it handy but I believe that the Eastern European Sourcebook Covers these areas. TTFN Ron Hale >> The Eastern European Sourcebook covers former Warsaw Pact nations and Greece and Turkey. No mention of Italy or Austria. I think those are covered in the NATO Vehicle Guide, but I don't have it so I can't confirm. Orrin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:17:30 -0400 (EDT) From: OrrinLadd@aol.com Subject: Re: Finns?...Where are the Finns? In a message dated 97-07-18 10:25:18 EDT, Cardsharks@aol.com writes: << >> I have several copies of these Finnish modules for those who are really desperate (as well as a supply of T2K modules). Email me at FarFuture@aol.com. Marc Miller >> Marc Miller, I heard of you. I thought you were dead. :) (from "Escape from New York" I couldn't resist.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 11:21:23 -0700 (MST) From: scharlto@RTD.COM (Steve Charlton) Subject: Rating the Modules OK - My ratings ... Rate Item 8 0500 v1.0 Boxed Set 7 0501 Free City of Krakow 8 0502 Pirates of the Vistula 7 0503 Ruins of Warsaw 8 0504 US Army Vehicle Guide ____ 9 0506 Going Home 4 0507 Red Star, Lone Star 7 0508 RDF Sourcebook 7 0509 Armies of the Night 6 0510 Allegheny Uprising 7 0511 Airlords of the Ozarks 4 0512 Gateway to the Spanish Main 5 0513 King's Ransom 8 0514 Soviet Vehicle Guide 5 0515 Urban Guerilla 9 0516 Small Arms Guide 7 0517 The Last Submarine 7 0518 Kidnapped 7 0519 Howling Wilderness 8 0520 Mediteranean Cruise 8 0521 Boomer 5 0522 Satellite Down 6 0523 Return to Warsaw 7 0524 Bear's Den 7 0525 Heavy Weapons Guide 7 0526 NATO Vehicle Guide ____ 7 0528 Survivors' Guide to the UK 4 #401 City of Angels (produced by 3W) 3 0551 Last Battle 8 0552 Twilight Encounters 7 2000 v2.2 Rule Book 7 2001 v2.0 Boxed Set 9 2002 Infantry Weapons 8 2003 US Vehicle Guide ____ 8 2005 Merc:2000 6 2006 Bangkok 7 2007 NATO Combat Vehicle Handbook 7 2008 MERC 2000 Gazetter 8 2009 Nautical and Aviation Handbook 5 2010 Twilight Nightmares 7 2012 Special Operations ____ ____ ____ 5 2016 Operation Crouching Dragon 7 2017 Eastern Europe Sourcebook 4 2018 Rendezvous in Krakow ____ 6 Eternal Soldier, vol.1 no.1 6 Challenge Magazine 52: Going on Safari 7 Challenge Magazine 53: Naval Rules for Twilight:2000; New Equipment Steven T. Charlton scharlto@rtd.com I don't recall installing this "General Protection Fault" Screen Saver ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:44:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Hruggek@aol.com Subject: Re: Rating the Modules In a message dated 97-07-19 16:53:08 EDT, you write: << 4 #401 City of Angels (produced by 3W) >> WHAT! Out of all the modules that is probably the best by far it is at least a 9.9. It was so easy and fun to adapt into your own little world of excitment. How can you not love the idea of radioactive trailer dwellers and a booby trapped disney land. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 03:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: KAPPAABZ@aol.com Subject: Re: Rating the Modules In a message dated 97-07-19 19:18:32 EDT, you write: << << 4 #401 City of Angels (produced by 3W) >> WHAT! Out of all the modules that is probably the best by far it is at least a 9.9. It was so easy and fun to adapt into your own little world of excitment. How can you not love the idea of radioactive trailer dwellers and a booby trapped disney land. >> You so silly! Shoot all of them with a LAV-PIVAD! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:12:27 -0700 From: Mad Mike Subject: Re: Rating the Modules KAPPAABZ@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 97-07-19 19:18:32 EDT, you write: > > << << 4 #401 City of Angels (produced by 3W) >> > WHAT! Out of all the modules that is probably the best by far it is at > least > a 9.9. > It was so easy and fun to adapt into your own little world of excitment. How > can you not love the idea of radioactive trailer dwellers and a booby > trapped > disney land. >> Anybody know where to get the City of Angels module... Pity Twilight 2000 died out I loved the game:). The concept of gunning it out in Disneyland sounds too good to be true... Did this module take into account of the MCASs in Tustin and El Toro? What about various National guard armories and motor pools all in Southern California? (Definitely no shortage of Hummers, 5 tons, deuce and halfs, and even M113s or even M1s- although most of the 40th ID(M) armor is based up north near by the late Fort Ord). I can see a bunch of PCs hammering it out with a suspected enemy position on the Matterhorn- (use a Barret 82A1 to do the job or just hose the area down with 25mm HEI from a chain gun- LAV has up to 210 ready rounds:) Mad Mike - -- "May God bless your bayonets that they may penetrate deep into the entrails of your enemies. May the Almighty in His great righteousness direct your artillery fire upon the heads of the enemy staffs. Merciful God, grant that all our enemies may be stifled amid their own blood, from the wounds which we inflict upon them."- Geza Szatmur Budafal, Archbishop of Budapest, "The Good Soldier Schweik" by Jaroslav Hacek ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:10:23 -0400 From: Mitchell Schwartz Subject: Re: Weapons Himsett wrote: > Are there somebody who has a lot of weapons "designed" with the rules in the > infantry weapons book, or made up some. I am interested in as many weapons > as possible in the game. It is not because only of the stats, but some of my > players like alot to choose from. I myself have made quite abit from > R.Talsorian's compendium of modern firearms. Ron Hale wrote: >If you like making new weapons, you should try to get a copy of a >Traveler New Era sourcebook called; Fire, Fusion, & Steel. It gives >rules for creating everything from a zipgun to a Particle Projector >Cannon. Following FF&S's Weapon rules maks for some strange weapons. It's "current era" weapon designs run 10-20% heavy, which makes them a bitch to carry and easier to fire (lower recoil). Range tended to be poor, too. (In a TNE game, I kept begging the GM to let us buy earth reproductions of .45s, 9mm pistols and SMGs). mitch Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing in the tempting place. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) Official: Unofficial: mitch@intersys.com Ted7@world.std.com http://www.intersys.com http://world.std.com/~Ted7 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:40:53 -0400 From: Mitchell Schwartz Subject: New Adventure on line Bones of Napoleon: A WW2 adventure using T2K mechanics: http://world.std.com/~Ted7/bones.htm (Those who may have tried this between 18-Jul & 12-Jul and could not connect, try this now...) mitch Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing in the tempting place. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) Official: Unofficial: mitch@intersys.com Ted7@world.std.com http://www.intersys.com http://world.std.com/~Ted7 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:55:59 -0400 From: Mitchell Schwartz Subject: Austria Andy Johnson wonders: >I always wondered what had happened to both Italy and Austria while playing >Twilight: 2000. A little bit was actually mentioned: Lest you don't know: o Italy opted out of NATO when NATO invaded E. Germany/Poland (depending on the version you prefer). o Italy signed a mutual defense treaty with Greece, and was dragged into the in Summer, 1997 when the Greek Navy went out to stop NATO from reinforcing Turkey (then under attack from the Soviets and Bulgarians). o Italy joined a combined offensive by the Pact nations. Its units drove north through Austria into southern Germany, meeting Czech and Russian forces pressing in from Czechoslovakia. In 1998, NATO pushed the Italians out of southern Germany into Austria, where they stalemated. Austria was neutral, with a small, obsolete military that was basically swept aside as the Pact invaded. It hastily joined NATO. There are small remnant units here and there on the Austrian front. That's about it for published info. mitch Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing in the tempting place. -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) Official: Unofficial: mitch@intersys.com Ted7@world.std.com http://www.intersys.com http://world.std.com/~Ted7 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:54:58 +0200 From: "Himsett" Subject: weapons Thanks for the info Ron, but Fire, Fusion, & Steel is impossible to get in Norway. So does anybody know about some European mailorder services who MIGHT have it. A while ago I ran a cind of interesting campaign. Since the Russians where stopped in the northern part of Norway, only that part of Norway and some other targets of special interest where damaged. This include; the oilfields in the Norwegian sea, the NATO bases, some ports,, and so on, but since the rest of Norway never had a big impact on the war I think the Russians used the majority of their nukes elsewere. So Norway still has a sentralized goverment and life goes on "nearly" as it used to. Since most of our troops died fighting of russians are we in great need of more troops incase the shit hits the fan again. The players mission: Get to Europe via Finland-Russia and then south, or Denmark-Germany. Contact Elite soldiers and try to get them to join the Norwegian foreign legion, with a possibility of becoming Norwegian after two years of service. This might not be realistic, but it was one of our greatest campaigns ever. Where are\ have you been campaigning? Himsett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:05:45 -0700 From: Mad Mike Subject: Re: weapons Himsett wrote: > A while ago I ran a cind of interesting campaign. Since the Russians where > stopped in the northern part of Norway, only that part of Norway and some > other targets of special interest where damaged. This include; the oilfields > in the Norwegian sea, the NATO bases, some ports,, and so on, but since the > rest of Norway never had a big impact on the war I think the Russians used > the majority of their nukes elsewere. That and fallout patterns can easily blow over Ivan's backyard ^_-. > The players mission: > Get to Europe via Finland-Russia and then south, or Denmark-Germany. Contact > Elite soldiers and try to get them to join the Norwegian foreign legion, > with a possibility of becoming Norwegian after two years of service. Problem the US has a regiment and air group's worth of vehicles, ordnance, and otehr supplies. The Marines and various Royal Marine Commando regiments (or the entire 3rd Commando Group) would come in on the white horse to stop Ivan. AV-8B Harriers to beef up Norway's attack capability with their F-16As and F-5s along with Super Cobra (hopefully by 2000- the AH-1W have laser designator/rangefinders and FLIRS built into the nose sights) along with squadrons of Hornets. On the ground towed 155s, M1A1s, amtracs and LAVs. This is the inital heavy force that Norway could count on. The US would then try to deploy the ready brigade of the 10th Mountain Division (4-5 light infantry battalions) to NATO's vulnerable northern flank. Eventually that entire division although it might be too bad if those light fighters had two battalions (of now cancelled) M8 light tanks, LAV25s, SUSVs, and TOW armed Hummers... Depending on the weather hard fighting in the snow or swatting very big mosquitos as both sides would try to kick their respective asses in the taiga/forest... Nukes maybe an option but Marines generally don't have access to them and the Soviets might be a little gunshy considering the geography... Still this scenario makes for great Twilight campaigning as soldiers and Marines get to slug it out with anti-tank missiles against Soviet naval infantry and motorized rifles regiments or even resoprt to sending small patrols for long range recon and bushwhacking the Commies...:) Mad Mike - -- "May God bless your bayonets that they may penetrate deep into the entrails of your enemies. May the Almighty in His great righteousness direct your artillery fire upon the heads of the enemy staffs. Merciful God, grant that all our enemies may be stifled amid their own blood, from the wounds which we inflict upon them."- Geza Szatmur Budafal, Archbishop of Budapest, "The Good Soldier Schweik" by Jaroslav Hacek ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 21:23:15 -0400 (EDT) From: KAPPAABZ@aol.com Subject: Re: Initiative In a message dated 97-08-13 19:56:15 EDT, you write: << On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Rob Miracle wrote: > Actually, it is my biggest peave with the system. Just a couple of things, > if a character continues to do the same thing the next round, the lowest > initiative goes first as long as they are doing the same action. >> hey ROB! didn't know if you still worked at tantalus, or if it was still in businees...... So.................. What's the word on DC and Twilight? Can we expect to see anything new before the year 2000? Still wondering, chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 10:56:29 +0300 From: Pietu Subject: [none] Still live here? " Mr. Nobody " ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 09:39:04 -0700 From: Hale Subject: Re: Pietu wrote: > Still live here? > " Mr. Nobody " Were still here, well at least I am. TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:26:49 +0200 From: "Aad Wagner" Subject: Re: > Still live here? > " Mr. Nobody " No.. ...End of Communication... Aad "Blaster Master" Wagner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:21:10 -0400 (EDT) From: JTIFFER@aol.com Subject: Re: That depends on what you consider living... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:48:54 +0300 From: Pietu Subject: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel I wondering, does anybody know what kind of weapons may Columbian Cartel use in Merc:2000 world? American`s M-16? Or just Kalashnikov`s? May they have heavy weapons? ( GL, etc. ) And where they have get thous gun`s? - I know, that getting few military rifles is not a problem, but if you need couple hundreds rifles it must to be a hard. But I really don`t know, maybe some of you may help me/us? " Mr. Nobody " ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 02:06:05 -0700 From: Mad Mike Subject: Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Pietu wrote: > > I wondering, does anybody know what kind of weapons may Columbian Cartel use > in Merc:2000 world? American`s M-16? Or just Kalashnikov`s? May they have > heavy weapons? ( GL, etc. ) Anything and everything (reread Tom's Clear and Present Danger although the flick isn't half bad). The ubquitous AK could probably do for druggies- so long as one remembers this. Even narcoterrorists must worry about logistics. Given the extensive "empire" like Cali and Medillin have they also have the money to hire real soldiers to teach their thugs how to use guns- case in point there has been unconfirmed rumors that several Israeli officers (field grade) with special operations background have given their services in exchange for cash (after all money is the Universal solvent). Other good choices for personal firepower include the .308 version of the Galil (very popular South of the Rio grande), the Uzi, and the G3A3/A4. The M16 could work- Colombia's police and military have a hodge podge of weaponry although I suspect Washington's giving that state a helping hand along with Bolivia and Peru. Heavy weapons I'd say would probably range in the ever present RPG-7V, possibly 40mm bloopers, and 7.62mm belt fed machineguns or RPKs. > And where they have get thous gun`s? - I know, that getting few > military rifles is not a problem, but if you need couple hundreds rifles it > must to be a hard. > But I really don`t know, maybe some of you may help me/us? For heavier weapons and ammo. How 'bout this- the slow boat from China or Eastern Europe and the occasional chartered flight and the druggies pay off officials at the air fields and ports (plomo o plata- lead or silver. Bribe or grease- not that hard a concept to understand IMNSHO). With Merc team either they're working for the DEA or CIA- officially or just talented "free lancers" and got the intel on a gun shipment but can't bust heads for various reasons, so.... Team sneaks in- zaps the guards with silenced weapons and places a couple of C4 charges along the crates of hardware and slip out just like the movies.... Mad Mike - -- "May God bless your bayonets that they may penetrate deep into the entrails of your enemies. May the Almighty in His great righteousness direct your artillery fire upon the heads of the enemy staffs. Merciful God, grant that all our enemies may be stifled amid their own blood, from the wounds which we inflict upon them."- Geza Szatmur Budafal, Archbishop of Budapest, "The Good Soldier Schweik" by Jaroslav Hacek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 13:25:31 +0300 From: Mikko Pesonen Subject: Newbie Yeah, I'm a new person here. If someone wants to help please do so. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:11:30 -0700 From: Hale Subject: Re: Newbie Mikko Pesonen wrote: > Yeah, I'm a new person here. If someone wants to help please do so. Welcome! What kind of help do you need? If you got questions, post them and we'll try and answer them. TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:21:18 -0700 From: Hale Subject: Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Pietu wrote: > I wondering, does anybody know what kind of weapons may Columbian Cartel use > in Merc:2000 world? American`s M-16? Or just Kalashnikov`s? May they have > heavy weapons? ( GL, etc. ) > And where they have get thous gun`s? - I know, that getting few > military rifles is not a problem, but if you need couple hundreds rifles it > must to be a hard. > But I really don`t know, maybe some of you may help me/us? > " Mr. Nobody " Pietu, with there money and control over the countries they operate in, it would not be unresaonable to find Main Battle Tanks; Fighter, Attack & Transport Aircraft; and any type of small arms or support weapons in the cartel inventories. In addition, in the countries the cartels operate, they control the goverment and most importantly the militaries. They do this through bribes & terror. As a side not the cartels have for several years now been using professional soldiers to train and form the cores of there forces. TTFN Ron Hale ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:45:46 -0400 (EDT) From: KAPPAABZ@aol.com Subject: Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Well they get alot of their military hardware from the US government, but that's a whole other thread.............................. they use whatever they want, and usually it has no set structure.... mac-10's, M-16's, etc.,etc., I doubt they'd use heavy weapons (howetzers--sp?) they don't have the training or ability to maintain it in a long term operation. Maybe some M203's or a LAW or two, but that's it Again it's all opinion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 00:57:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Albert Behnke Subject: Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel Having the heavy weapons isn't so much a matter of logistics or training, or even getting the equipment. It's more of if they have it, it gives the government a very good reason to declare war against them. I don't know about you, but if some right wing group in the U.S. had a howitzer, the government would be VERY concerned. They would put taking the howitzer (and the group) out of action VERY high on the to do list Oh, yes I am a newbie (to this list) On Thu, 28 Aug 1997 KAPPAABZ@aol.com wrote: > Well they get alot of their military hardware from the US government, > but that's a whole other thread.............................. > > they use whatever they want, and usually it has no set structure.... > mac-10's, M-16's, etc.,etc., I doubt they'd use heavy weapons > (howetzers--sp?) they don't have the training or ability to maintain it in a > long term operation. Maybe some M203's or a LAW or two, but that's it > > Again it's all opinion > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:22:03 PDT From: "Teemu Niemi" Subject: Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel You're right most of small arms come from U.S, but aren't there some kind of manufacturing places for AK-series also... At least what I have seen in movies, (yes, I know, it isn't really THAT reliable source for information) soldiers in Cartels use mostly M16 or AK74/AK47. They have heavier weapons only if country's goverment and/or military is owned by Cartel... But this is only my opinion... >From: KAPPAABZ@aol.com >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 23:45:46 -0400 (EDT) >To: twilight2000@MPGN.COM >Subject: Re: Merc:2000 Columbia Cartel > >Well they get alot of their military hardware from the US government, >but that's a whole other thread.............................. > >they use whatever they want, and usually it has no set structure.... >mac-10's, M-16's, etc.,etc., I doubt they'd use heavy weapons >(howetzers--sp?) they don't have the training or ability to maintain it in a >long term operation. Maybe some M203's or a LAW or two, but that's it > >Again it's all opinion ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:09:39 +0300 From: Mikko Pesonen Subject: Todays subject What are people talking about in here at the moment? I just entered this mailing list and I'm little bit out of this conversation. I'd like to ask this is someone still playing Twilight2000 v.1 ? TRUST NO ONE... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 06:30:55 -0500 From: David Reed Subject: RE: Newbie > Yeah, I'm a new person here. If someone wants to help please do so. Help you do what? ______________________________________________________________________ David Reed | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore | With God or Man will gain thee no remission. david@techrefuge.com | -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes" ______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:00:25 -0500 From: David Reed Subject: RE: Todays subject > What are people talking about in here at the moment? I just entered this > mailing list and I'm little bit out of this conversation. > I'd like to ask this is someone still playing Twilight2000 v.1 ? It *was* nice and quiet... ;-) Nobody was discussing anything. ______________________________________________________________________ David Reed | All wickedness is weakness: that plea therefore | With God or Man will gain thee no remission. david@techrefuge.com | -John Milton, "Samson Agonistes" ______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:53:51 -0400 From: Scott Lazzari Subject: Re: Todays subject Yeah, Thats the only version I play. I have too much $$$ invested in most of the v1 stuff to go out and buy all the v2 stuff (If I could find it all) I, too, am a newbie to the list - actually been on for a while, but been lurking. Scott Lazzari slazzari@tciconsulting.com http://www.beta.com/users/lazzari/ ICQ UIN: 2098756 - ----- 01:09 PM 8/29/97 +0300,Mikko Pesonen you wrote ----- >What are people talking about in here at the moment? I just entered this >mailing list and I'm little bit out of this conversation. >I'd like to ask this is someone still playing Twilight2000 v.1 ? > > > TRUST NO ONE... > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 08:41:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Callahan Subject: Twilight Question (fwd) Greetings All: Due to some sort of conspiracy which his ISP is involved in, Rob Beck is unable to post to the mailing list (though he still receives other people's postings). He wrote up a synopsis of his gaming group's activities, and asked me to forward it to the list. Enjoy... - -C - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:03:45 -0500 From: Robert Beck To: Christopher Callahan Subject: Twilight Question The group started with 10 people, 4 of which were PC's. At it's height there were 27 people, 21 NPC's and 6 PC's. They've gone on quite a little recruitment drive. Now, the group is minus 4 of those NPC's. How'd they get here? Good question, and it leads me into a question at the end of the discussion. the team started running south of Kalisz with an M2A2 and 3 Hummers. They ran into three cavalrymen from the 4-12th Cavalry (stragglers) and convinced them to link up. Not having any better ideas, they did just that. They reconnoitered and planned to assault a Soviet MP checkpoint, but caught a Soviet convoy moving up to the checkpoint for a night rest. With some decent planning, the 13 of them assaulted and disabled the convoy and MP garrison. They found that the 4 5-tons carried *surprise* diesel and gasoline. So, they took all the vehicles. They were in a bind trying to crew them all, (they also picked up a UAZ and 3/4 ton), but they managed (barely). Luckily, they didn't have to fight like that. They lost the 3/4 ton moving overland and abandoned it, and decided to check out the town of Olesno. At the time, Olesno had just acquired a new garrison from the 129th MRD, and was kind of adjusting when they first checked it out. They planned a night raid in which one character (a Marine Infantry Gunny) nearly got himself killed trying to go hand to hand with a Russian, and another (a Norwegian Jager) earned the nickname "Nightmare" when he snuck under a BTR and pulled the guard standing next to it under, followed by breaking his spine and then using the guard's weapon to disable several of his comrades from beneath the vehicle. With some confusion, they secured the town and holed-up a day, reorganizing. They planned on staying longer, but when a reconnaissance element showed up looking for what happened to the garrison, they booked (after destroying it, naturally). They picked up a BMP-2 and BTR-70 from the garrison they wrecked. The team then headed to Dobrodzien, after hearing of American vehicles headed in that direction. There they met Captain Warren and B troop of the 116th ACR. They learned quickly of her healthy disrespect for Russians and her devotion to getting out of the war (the unit has decided that they're staying in the war and anyone who doesn't is a coward or traitor). Needless to say, the group wasn't vocal about their feelings. They spent two days there, after GIVING B troop two of the tankers (steep rent) performing MNT and enjoying some R&R. They also picked up 4 more stragglers from the 256th/5th ID, one of which was a PC. Once they began moving, the Gunny, who was kind of running the unit, decided they should probe Opole. He figured everything else had been such a cake walk, that they should be able to crack Opole and maybe open up some running room for other survivors of the 5th. Well, the recon team that went in (One Force Recon, one Ranger, the Jager, and one of the cav scouts-I have the typical problem of too many spec ops types PC's in my game) got jumped as they tried to approach Opole. They later figured it was either some Desantniki survivors or more likely Spetsnaz, that had nothing better to do. You should have seen the random roles I made to determine how bad these guys were. Well, they extricated themselves from that (barely), nearly killing one NPC and two PC's, with a little help from part of the group's main body (one Hummer and a TOW launcher). You see, while all this gunfire and explosions was going on near the town, the town garrison, forming the bulk of the OMG for the 129th MRD, sent out a recon element. They got nailed and HARD with RAW grenades from the recon team and their BRDM took a TOW hit. So, the Sovs sent out something a little bigger, like a T-80, some BMP's, a couple of BTR's, and a lot of infantry. The Gunny, who had only just arrived on scene with more backup, started planning a spur of the moment ambush with the Hummers and the Bradley, but the Sovs didn't take the bait, and settled for shelling them with 122mm for awhile. The group, needless to say, backed off. They also discovered that the Sov Desantniki/Spetsnaz had left some claymore surprises for them at their base camp. Took them a while to disarm them. Ok, now the guy playing the gunny was upset at the recon element for letting themselves get jumped, and "didn't see how it could happen", and was mad because the Soviets wouldn't come out and play. The group decided to withdraw some distance east to Czestochowa. They reconned the ruins and set up in the little village of Klobuck for, I think it was three or four days. During that time, they picked up 4 Ukranian stragglers from the 38th TD, (right, they were marauders looking for a meal ticket-which the group suspected, but they gave them the benefit of the doubt), two more U.S. stragglers from the 3-77th Armored/2nd Brigade of the 5th (Oh, forgot to mention that the group is primarily from the 3-143 Infantry/2nd Brigade of the 5th) and a Marine Major PC, you guessed it Force Recon. He took defacto command of the group, mostly because everyone was sick of following the Gunny. That same night they were set upon by a well armed group of marauders, including a rickety old T-72 with very few shells left (like they knew that). The marauders also had a BTR that got one of the Hummers, but the crew escaped, with minor burns. Between the Bradley and the Mk-19 equipped Hummer, they toasted the marauders. The mads weren't very bright, anyway. >From the survivors of the 256th they picked up, they knew of the prison camp at Zdunska Wola (which one PC had escaped from), so they resolved to hit it, hopefully liberate the prisoners, and make a B-line for Krakow, which they've heard is a free city, but not much else. They reconned several towns in the area and found a preponderance of Polish cavalry (11th Border Guards). Skirting them, and with some excellent Tracking rolls finding an auxillary road through the forest, they approached Zdunska Wola from across the Warta. They had intended to recon it and maybe persuade the garrison to give up the POW's, in a very Kelly's Heroes kind of fashion. Me being the type to reward creative ideas like that, I figured that the Captain in charge of the camp was actually a just and fair man who didn't like to see soldiers waste away, but who was trapped by duty and a lack of ability to get the POW's out of the area. This is where the PC's were supposed to come in. Of course, they blew my plans out of the water. The Ranger and an Infantryman went in to recon the town, found the POW camp, and the horse stables. They were almost spotted by a roving patrol, but dodged them. On their way out, the patrol reacuired them, and followed them rather stealthily, hoping to find out where they'd come from. Well, they were good, but the Ranger was better, and he kept getting the feeling they were being followed, so he hunkered down and waited for a sign. The Poles used the old cav trick of holding your horses down, but eventually the horses grew tired of this (the Ranger was VERY patient) and the cav guys decided they'd make a break for the town. To this point, the Poles had not been aggressive. Well, the Ranger saw them trying to run, and trying to maintain secrecy (like the patrol wouldn't be missed), started sniping the riders. Well, they figured out quick what he was doing and fired back....a lot. They lost five men and had seven horses injured, but the remainder escaped to report the attack. This is when all hell REALLY broke loose. The Poles began sending out more patrols and putting the town on alert. Rather than even waiting for a report, the Major and Gunny both agreed that the situation had been compromised and they HAD to attack the town NOW! You heard it right. Not waiting for the Ranger's report, they saddled the two Hummers up and sent them south of the town to await the Bradley and BMP. (Why?) They were also under the erroneus impression that the Poles had fired first! Fog of war. Well, as soon as the Hummers were in place, they ran into a cav patrol and a firefight ensued. They lost one Hummer (damaged and recoverable), had one of the best NPC's (a female Polish-American Infantry SFC named Wojanski) nearly killed when a grenade went off too close and caused a nasty ass concussion and lost one of their combat engineers to gunfire, (he was crewing the other Hummer). You see where this is going? The PC's figure that they're in with both feet, so they send the BMP and M2, fully crewed and carrying a full load of passengers (combat squads the Gunny had formed from the PC's/NPC's not crewing vehicles) right down the main road to the town. The same road the Poles EXPECT to see more Americans! Well, the Pole cavalry had an AT-4 and AGS-17 crew set up at different spots on that edge of town, and they opened up, destroying the BMP and it's crew. The passengers were able to bail out. The crew, btw, was three of the Ukranians. The AT-4 blew off the turret and destroyed the engine. The driver bought the ranch from some nasty 30mm grenade shrapnel. Well, the Bradley neutralized both these positions, and then proceeded to where the Ranger had finally gotten a chance to say the POW compound was. After some more fighting, and some more dead cav troopers, the Poles attempted to call a cease fire. Luckily for the PC's, they accepted. The Poles wanted to know why the hell they'd attacked them. The Major blurted out "Because you're unlawfully holing our troops!" or words to that effect. *Please* The Polish captain nearly laughed at him, and reminded him that in war, prisoners are taken. He then asked if the Major would prefer if he radio to Pact High Command that it was the advice of a U.S. Major that NATO troops not be taken prisoner, but instead just be shot, lest the Americans get angry and attack said POW camps. That lightened things up a bit. The Captain was very upset, but figured they'd each did a fair amount of damage to the other and was willing to leave it at that. He was even willing to give up the POW's, provided the team did a little job for him... More on that later. Lastly, the player playing the Gunny was a Bradley infantryman like 10 years ago. So, he seems to know a lot about the Bradley. Most times though he just comes off as a know-it-all and chronic nitpicker, two habits I really despise. I like the info on the Bradley, don't get me wrong, but sometimes he takes his expertise to the extreme. It's not like he was in the Army yesterday. He asked me today (two days after the session) why the Bradley didn't see the AT-4 and AGS-17 crews with it's thermals long before they got a chance to fire and didn't take them out. He also said I should at LEAST rescind the death of the three Ukranians as it should never have happened. I've polled the other players, and they don't agree with him. Regardless, I've said that if he had an objection, he should have voiced it then, not two days later. I've also said that the results of the battle stand. The team acted rashly and they're lucky they didn't lose more. My question to you is, what is your opinion? Do you think the Bradley should have done as he said? My take on it was, the guy he had commanding the Bradley, while a former Abrams crewmember, had never been commander, (he's in charge of personnel placement and had recently assigned him there) and had failed his Obs roll when looking for targets. I assumed that meant he had a lot on his mind just trying to run the crew, and for that crucial moment, missed the targets. Plus, there were several other buildings near those positions occupied by civillians and fires, all providing their own little heat sources. I figured that added to the obfuscation. When he realized they were there, he took them out. That's the best he could do. Of course, I don't think the player took that as a sufficient answer. Just asking a second opinion. Well, I hope the story was interesting. You can post it to the list if you like. I still can't send to it. It might make for some interesting reading. Take it easy. Rob. ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1996 #51 ************************************