twilight2000-digest Thursday, 24 October 1996 Volume 1996 : Number 028 The following topics are covered in this digest: 1. DUMB PLAYERS 2. Re: SAS 3. Re: SAS 4. Re: SAS 5. Re: Changes, new materials 6. Spares 7. Re: Re: SAS 8. Change Changing places.....Changes 9. Apocolypse...............NOW!!!!!! 10. Re: Spares 11. Re: Change Changing places.....Changes 12. Re: Spares 13. Re: NA 14. Re: Change Changing places.....Changes 15. Re: Change Changing places.....Changes 16. Announcment: Mailing List Archives available (again) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kappaabz@juno.com (Christopher R Stainton) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:04:56 EDT Subject: DUMB PLAYERS Don't ya just love dumb players? I had a module set up once.....they were supposed to find this farm, talk to the owners, get info, maybe barter for some food, ya know, the usual........ Well they screwed around for so long, that they got to the farm right as the session was about to end, and one guy thinks that "a game isn't a game unless I can shoot something....." So they got to the polish farm at night, Trigger Man is reconing it, fails a stealth roll, miserably, and notices someone in the upstairs window with a rifle in hand (not aimed, mind you) looking out the window (for the noise)......... Trgiger Man clmly raises his M21 and fires.....drops the guy...... Thats where the session ended. Well, this guy had consistantly screwed up my game for a while, and unfortunately he was the ride for most of the rest of the group, so if doesn't play, 3/4 of my players don't show up either......So I decided to get even....... I made the farmer (the guy who was killed) the brother of this guy who was a sergeant major (or some high rank NCO) in the 6th Pomeranean Air Assault Brigade (the Polish SF, or Rangers), and while the PCs withdrew to decide what to do next, the Sarge, moved in, set up some booby traps, and got into good fighting positions (he was alerted by his niece (who wasn't shot-or noticed by Trigger Man)).......... So of course the DUMB PLAYERS (most of the group always followed Trigger Man-I really don't know why) decided it was nice to have their own farm (it was right about harvest time, anyway) and thus began a 5 day killing orgy. The Sarge would move little things at night...the Scarecrow would be in one place one day, a different place the next...he snuk in and removed the sparkplugs and ditributer caps from the vehicles, which the PCs didn't notice untill it was too late. On the 2nd day when 2 PCs went to investigate why the Scarecrow had moved, one stepped on a toe popper, left there by the Sarge.....ouch. The next day another toe popper got somebody else, then once a day he'd fire a round, from the woods, at a PC milling around inside the fence...... It was so beautiful......I got the PCs so paranoid (Not to mention down to half their fighting Strength), that they thought it was a group of people, not one.....and they were SURE that it had something to do with the scarcrow........ they killed ol Sarge, but not after he got a few of them....permanently........... anyone else with DUMB PLAYER stories? Chris PS any post is better than no post, IMO ------------------------------ From: Michael S Choi Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SAS On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Christopher R Stainton wrote: > The SAS..............these guys are soooo bad, I don't think the T2k > rules did them justice. Agreed Stainton but I'm of the opinion that TW2K didn't do any justice to a lot of Spec Ops personnel. > I had done training as OPFOR for our US Special Forces a couple of times, > and usually, we wipe them out. No kidding? What was it? Superior numbers? Firepower? Better support/logistics? SAS are supposed to have their sh%^t together to say the least and they're the guys who make the PIRA cringe in fear. Granted I've been reading too much Andy McNab- you got the practical experience BTW have you ever worked with the British airborne? I've heard their Paras are supposed to be good light infantry- if the Falklands are an indication. > and if we want Tantalus to put out (or support) new products, we need to > show our interest and support for the game.......................IMO BUT- do Twilight fans want any changes in the game? Re-releasing old modules? Revamping stats and bringing in new guns? (Anybody want me to go through Jane's Infantry Weapons of the World 96-97?) Mad Mike - -- Otakuize the world! Otaku of the world unite! Michael Choi, President of the Sailor Ranma fan club and drooling mecha fan-boy extraordinaire. ------------------------------ From: Rob Miracle Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 16:42:13 -0400 Subject: Re: SAS At 01:23 PM 10/22/96 -0700, Mad Mike wrote: >On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Christopher R Stainton wrote: >> and if we want Tantalus to put out (or support) new products, we need to >> show our interest and support for the game.......................IMO > > BUT- do Twilight fans want any changes in the game? Re-releasing >old modules? Revamping stats and bringing in new guns? (Anybody want me to >go through Jane's Infantry Weapons of the World 96-97?) Please tell. I think I had posted a question a while back about how everyone felt about the game. Personally, I haven't played TW2K since the original box set. I am a Traveller head, though I do enjoy Dark Conspiracy. So I am familiar with the TW2K v2.2 rules, since Traveller: The New Era uses them, and DC is a slightly earlier version. So my question was: What do you dislike about the game? Where should the game go to? The post-war apocolyps won't last forever, and by 2300, we are battling the Kafers any way. TW2K is a game where the created history continues with it. The time line is kinda written. I have a hard time seeing the long term play of TW2K. In AD&D you can continue your campaign at some point in the future. With TW2K, the aura of the game does not permit that. Should TW2K become more of a generic military role-playing game? How important is the post-apocolyps aspect of the game? How many years can we expect the post-war problems to continue until the world regains a foothold? Rob - -- Rob Miracle Tantalus Inc. Be patient or be a patient. -- Anton Devious ------------------------------ From: Michael S Choi Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 14:44:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: SAS On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Rob Miracle wrote: > So my question was: What do you dislike about the game? Where should the > game go to? The post-war apocolyps won't last forever, and by 2300, we are > battling the Kafers any way. TW2K is a game where the created history > continues with it. The time line is kinda written. I don't dislike the game. In fact I like the Mad Max concept with more firepower than a NRA member's best wet dream. I'm not so sure if I like the swtich to d20 system in the 2.2 Ed. I always found throwing handful of ten siders for full auto sort of reassuring. That and I found skill rols a little ambigious. what constitutes a difficult role? Near impossible? How do you sneak up on a sentry using Stealth? How fast can you sneak up on a baddie? When a character is rolling to see if he fixes a Hummer does he need certain spares? Granted these questions are usually up to the GM's discretion but a lot more helpful tips scan help What I want is better maps and a swtich maybe to the hex type system and for more detailied floor plans of various buildings. Secondly more interesting NPCs- I want better background instead of using cards to tell me about various characters. And finally the re-release of the old modules especially the European ones and hopefully some stuff on the Mid East and East Asia.I don't know if I like the New America concept. And there's always more guns:). > > I have a hard time seeing the long term play of TW2K. In AD&D you can > continue your campaign at some point in the future. With TW2K, the aura of > the game does not permit that. Should TW2K become more of a generic > military role-playing game? How important is the post-apocolyps aspect of > the game? How many years can we expect the post-war problems to continue > until the world regains a foothold? Actually I can't find a copy of Traveller 2300 anywhere. How about re-marketing that game along with the modules? Mad Mike - -- Otakuize the world! Otaku of the world unite! Michael Choi, President of the Sailor Ranma fan club and drooling mecha fan-boy extraordinaire. ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:24:41 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: Changes, new materials On Tue, 22 Oct 1996, Rob Miracle wrote: > > BUT- do Twilight fans want any changes in the game? Re-releasing > >old modules? Revamping stats and bringing in new guns? (Anybody want me to > >go through Jane's Infantry Weapons of the World 96-97?) > > Please tell. I think I had posted a question a while back about how > > So my question was: What do you dislike about the game? Where should the > game go to? The post-war apocolyps won't last forever, and by 2300, we are > battling the Kafers any way. TW2K is a game where the created history > continues with it. The time line is kinda written. I'm looking at this more from a roleplayer's point of view than from that of a gun buff (which I'm not, although I'm an elite forces buff), and my thinking is that we have enough rules and equipment already. New APCs, assault rifles or pistols won't change my game. I also think that upgrading the rules is unnecessary. Variants presented on lists such as this are one thing, and Tantalus could always have a WWW site with different variants and clarifications, but a new book is in my view unnecessary. It would also probably be a waste of effort, as many people are not interested in upgrading even to the 2.2 (which, admittedly, was a fairly small upgrade from 2.0). What I would like to see is what GDW initially made: sourcebooks which outline a setting, a geographical area and a campaign. These could be supported with a bit more thoroughly developed, detailed adventures for those of us who have very little time to do the work ourselves. I would also like to see more support for Merc:2000, and some adventures or sections in the sourcebooks which would focus on rebuilding the world and using skills related to that instead of always protecting a village from marauders. > I have a hard time seeing the long term play of TW2K. In AD&D you can > continue your campaign at some point in the future. With TW2K, the aura of > the game does not permit that. Should TW2K become more of a generic > military role-playing game? How important is the post-apocolyps aspect of > the game? How many years can we expect the post-war problems to continue > until the world regains a foothold? I've never had a problem with the long-term play, but that is probably mainly due to the characters moving around -- once Krakow is covered, you can move on to other parts of the world. And once the players fulfill their desires (for many to get back home), there is the rebuilding to be done. And that can go on for years, too. And sure you can have "downtime" in the game too -- if the PCs are all set for the long winter, and just want to stay in one place and spend the winter playing cards, then fine -- why couldn't you move the clock forward? Perhaps after playing the combats fighting back hordes of hungry peasants, though. And I would expect the problems to go on for years and years. After all, the whole world has been affected by the Twilight War, and been set back many years. - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: kappaabz@juno.com (Christopher R Stainton) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:27:37 EDT Subject: Spares Choi wrote: >>Hummer does he need certain spares? << Good point. I was recently looking up stuff..equipment, etc. and noticed that there was no provision for the purchace of Spares, Then when I flipped over the book (version 2.0) it says, "Eqip Yourself, use your money for Vehicles, ......and spares" Well, ok.....how? >>Actually I can't find a copy of Traveller 2300 anywhere. How about re-marketing that game along with the modules?<< Well, I've got ALL (or just about all) the stuff....never ran it, just made for good reading...please in the name of humanity, revamp the rules! Combat especially!.....but not this "house rules" system. IMO it makes it all one game, just a different setting, no uniqueness. another $.02 (C/R) ------------------------------ From: kappaabz@juno.com (Christopher R Stainton) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:27:37 EDT Subject: Re: Re: SAS >>No kidding? What was it? Superior numbers? Firepower? Better support/logistics?<< Usually superior numbers, firepower......well it's about the same, although we did have M-60s & they didn't.........They were using night vision, and we weren't, though. They probably were not give intel that they should have received, now that I think of it.......... >> SAS are supposed to have their sh%^t together to say the least and they're the guys who make the PIRA cringe in fear. Granted I've been reading too much Andy McNab- you got the practical experience<< And they do........ >>BTW have you ever worked with the British airborne? I've heard their Paras are supposed to be good light infantry- if the Falklands are an indication. << Nope, can't say I have. ------------------------------ From: kappaabz@juno.com (Christopher R Stainton) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:27:37 EDT Subject: Change Changing places.....Changes >>BUT- do Twilight fans want any changes in the game? Re-releasing old modules? Revamping stats and bringing in new guns? (Anybody want me to go through Jane's Infantry Weapons of the World 96-97?)<< I want changes.......... I guess Im nostalgic, but I like the % based rules of long ago, perhaps mixed with the combat of ver 2.0. I REALLY do not like this "house system".....fine it's compatable with Dark Conspiracy (although the DC characters get more skills than T2k characters), but mix it with Traveler? Come on..........It looks like GDW needed to move its products (t2k), so now you could jump in your starship, and play the T2k modules (not to mention buying the Small arms, and HW sourcebooks)......... Traveler is Traveler, and T2k is T2k.................... The way the old modules (version 1) were written is the way they should've written the version 2.0+ modules.................IMO..........but power gaming is definately the norm. New guns? I dunno, there seem to be plenty around...........Maybe. ------------------------------ From: kappaabz@juno.com (Christopher R Stainton) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:27:37 EDT Subject: Apocolypse...............NOW!!!!!! >>>So my question was: What do you dislike about the game? Where should the game go to? The post-war apocolyps won't last forever, and by 2300, we are battling the Kafers any way. TW2K is a game where the created history continues with it. The time line is kinda written. <<< First of all........I think actively trying to incorporate Twilight 2000 into 2300AD is a big mistake.........each group of PCs in t2k has the ability to change the future in regards to 2300's, but IF there is insistance of adhearing to this notion that 2300 will happen......... expanded French Military sourcebooks, adventures, everything....the only Real mention of the French is minor, yet in 2300AD...they are the big whigs........ So perhaps a detailed explanation of everything the French Government is doing will allow DMs to be part of the overall scheme of things. Hell, if I,as a player, new FOR SURE that 2300's history is the "official game timeline", I'd want to play a French Character..........They've got aircraft! In Going Home, the French have closed the border, have operational attack aircraft, and even French-African soldiers protecting the motherland. In the RDF sourcebook, French Personel are mentioned, however briefly. And in the later modules.....I don't remember any mention of them at all......... >>I have a hard time seeing the long term play of TW2K. In AD&D you can continue your campaign at some point in the future. With TW2K, the aura of the game does not permit that. Should TW2K become more of a generic military role-playing game?<<< Well, if you're going to say game years, perhaps yes, but as far as actual REAL time spent playing, no...... 5 modules...Escape From Kalisz, Krakow, Pirates of the Vistula, Ruins of Warsaw, and Going Home.....all take place within a few "game months" of each other, but it could provide a reasourceful GM and group of players with years of REAL time play. >>> How important is the post-apocolyps aspect of the game? How many years can we expect the post-war problems to continue until the world regains a foothold?<<< Very.......it's the whole idea of hopelessness. Hell, in the last war I fought in, I never had to worry about food (taste was another matter), or water, or feul, or AIRSUPPORT, or medical supplies..........If twilight 2000 didn't have the "apaocolypse", then it'd just be like MERC 2000, and then you'd be unable to use the basis of French domination in 2300AD. Also the game sessions would be like this....."ok, so I have to destroy a Chemical weapons factory? Alright, GM what's the range and damage on that cruise missile."..........boring.........The real world's military is so BIG and (for the most part) advanced, that with out the "apocolypse" this War wouldn't have been dragged out for so long................... >>How many years can we expect the post-war problems to continue until the world regains a foothold?<< Until the "world" regains a foothold? A while.....at least 20 years Game time, but what about the French foothold? IF 2300 AD time line is in effect, they'd be already hard at work securing their "foothold" well, in my "overall" scheme of things, France has Special Ops teams inside the various countries (USSR, USA, Great Brittan, etc.) causing a ruckus, and taking things of value. Such as: they are after the Black Madonna It was just luck that the Americans got the original US Constitution & declaration of independance out from under the radioactive ruins of DC, the Frence were a little late (but still interested) They ARE interested in the shipment of gold from armies of the night. They Are involved with the NAs just my $.02 (C/R) worth ------------------------------ From: Michael S Choi Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:06:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Spares On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Christopher R Stainton wrote: > Good point. I was recently looking up stuff..equipment, etc. > and noticed that there was no provision for the purchace of Spares, > Then when I flipped over the book (version 2.0) it says, "Eqip Yourself, > use your money for Vehicles, ......and spares" > Well, ok.....how? GDW should have used this expression."War is an exercise of logistics with killing as a side show." Do you know how much ammo a grunt company goes through? They need trucks and choppers for a reason... So a Twilight unit has a Brad, maybe two armed Hummers with TOW launchers or Ma Deuces, and if they really feel up to stillin' juice- a badass M1A2. Okay so you got armor and you got mobility? Okay what about fuel? Extra roadwheels and tracks and tires? How about some 10W-30 or 20W-50? Maybe extra hydraulic and break fluid? Radiator and fuel hoses? Get the picture, folks? Granted this is a RPG. Players and GMs are really so awed by the cool guns (and they should be because firepower of the American military IS SO RIGHTEOUS AND BADASS;). Question remains- now what? (especially since Tantalus dropped some cash for the rights of one of all time fav RPGs) I still believe that Twilight modules should have more detailed maps, background, NPCs, in short premade so that not-soimaginative GMs can start running a short term campaign but give enough ideas for an experienced GM to start running a long term game in the general area. Still Twilight's a game that once characters acheive their stated goald to leave "Europe for the Europeans" (funny you know how many grunts and treadheads married German girls throughout the years?) and the y get home to the US of A- then what? As I've said before the new america concept never really rubbed off on me. Even if the PCs had to leave their beloved tracks and tanks behind there's a lot of M113A3s in National Guard and old M60A3s- now matter how bad the NA thinks they are they aren't the 8th Guards Shock Army. Mad Mike - ---- Otakuize the world! Otaku of the world unite! Michael Choi, President of the Sailor Ranma fan club and drooling mecha fan-boy extraordinaire. ------------------------------ From: Michael S Choi Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 17:20:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Change Changing places.....Changes On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Christopher R Stainton wrote: > New guns? I dunno, there seem to be plenty around...........Maybe. > You think so? Hmmm- Twlight should get on the M24 bandwagon. They're phasing out the semi-beloved M14 with a scope... I'm generally confused how the Army uses these rifles- Rangers and light infantry i know are supposed to have a couple "designated marksmen" per battalion, aka snipers or at least countersnipers. Every once in a while though GDW should ahve gone through Jane's Armor and Artillery. Read number of ready rounds a vehicle has, any reloads, etc. Communications, optics, etc. The IFV Bradley can carry carry 600 more rounds for its chain gun but... Granted with guns in Twilight- it's more for telling who's who rather giving the characters any real advantages or disadvantages. And at some point there's Velveeta. Is there any GM who's willing to give PCs a battery of MLRS tracks and 155mm SPGs plus a Firefinder counterbattery radar? What about air support- in Twilight most aircraft are suppsoed to be grounded for a lack of fuel but lo and behold the second ed aircraft module. Gee mommy and daddy I wanna a battalion of attack aviation for X-mas;)? Or pointing to a A-10- Can have that;)? Mad Mike - -- Otakuize the world! Otaku of the world unite! Michael Choi, President of the Sailor Ranma fan club and drooling mecha fan-boy extraordinaire. ------------------------------ From: "David Reed" Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 20:11:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Spares - ---------- > From: Christopher R Stainton > To: Twilight2000@MPGN.COM > Subject: Spares > Date: Wednesday, October 23, 1996 4:27 PM > Then when I flipped over the book (version 2.0) it says, "Eqip Yourself, > use your money for Vehicles, ......and spares" > Well, ok.....how? % of original cost to replace a given amount of "wear" value for each system... > >>Actually I can't find a copy of Traveller 2300 anywhere. How > about re-marketing that game along with the modules?<< > > Well, I've got ALL (or just about all) the stuff....never ran it, just > made for good reading...please in the name of humanity, revamp the rules! > Combat especially!.....but not this "house rules" system. > IMO it makes it all one game, just a different setting, no uniqueness. Why does everyone think that "different" rules make "different" games? (Not that I disagree... BUT WHY?) ______________________________________________________________________ David Reed $$ | webmaster@techrefuge.com $$ What do you mean by "it's all politics"? | $$ Are you trying to suggest that there has | All material and ideas $$ EVER been anything else? | are (c) David Reed, 1996 $$ | ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:34:43 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: NA On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Michael S Choi wrote: > tracks and tanks behind there's a lot of M113A3s in National Guard and old > M60A3s- now matter how bad the NA thinks they are they aren't the 8th > Guards Shock Army. I always felt New America was realistic enough for RPG purposes, to give the players a larger enemy than just local marauders. And as to combat power, the idea is that the U.S. is devastated to a degree where it is hard for the military to get a larger force in place to attack these guys. So when the PCs get sent to take care of these guys, they are that well equipped force which will make the countryside safe once again. I guess I'm just trying to say I had no problems with NA. - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:39:55 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: Change Changing places.....Changes On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Christopher R Stainton wrote: > I want changes.......... > I guess Im nostalgic, but I like the % based rules of long ago, perhaps > mixed with the combat of ver 2.0. Like I said in my email to answer Rob's question on this, variations are one thing, but publishing a compeletely new version of the game is, IMHO, a wasted effort. Personally, I'm using skills which are defined on a percentage scale, and I use the experience rules from the first edition. But I use D20s for all rolls, as I belive a 5% accuracy is enough. Changes to the character creation have also already been discussed here - -- even though this list has fairly light traffic. So basically its just up to us, who are subscibing to this list, to pick and choose the best practices to our own games from everybody's experiences. - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 16:45:35 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: Change Changing places.....Changes On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Michael S Choi wrote: > On Wed, 23 Oct 1996, Christopher R Stainton wrote: > > > New guns? I dunno, there seem to be plenty around...........Maybe. > > You think so? Hmmm- Twlight should get on the M24 bandwagon. > Every once in a while though GDW should ahve gone through Jane's > Armor and Artillery. Read number of ready rounds a vehicle has, any > reloads, etc. Communications, optics, etc. The IFV Bradley can carry carry > 600 more rounds for its chain gun but... This is the reason I had the disclaimer "looking at this from a roleplayer's point of view" in my email answer to Rob. The thing is, many T2K players are gun enthusiasts like yourself. But moving the game over to a more roleplayer friendly mode instead of emphasizing hardware all the time might be a lot better for overall sales... Explaining how some equipment should be used in a game better could also be a good thing for new gamers, especially those who have not been in the armed forces. Like I said, I've got more than enough guns and vehicles for my game for a long time. Gun buffs can buy Jane's and tweak everything around, but I believe Tantalus should concentrate its efforts on more sourcebooks and adventures. - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Rob Miracle Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 14:41:26 -0400 Subject: Announcment: Mailing List Archives available (again) I finally got off my lazy behind (so to speak) and fixed the NFS mounts so that the mailing list archives would once again show up on ftp.mpgn.com (Yea!) (please note the directories for Traveller and Xboat changed!!!) Them URLs are: ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/Traveller/MailingListArchive/Traveller/ ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/Traveller/MailingListArchive/Xboat/ ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/DarkConspiracy/MailingListArchive/ ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/Twlight2000/MailingListArchive/ ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/2300ad/MailingListArchive/ Enjoy. Have fun. blah blah blah blah blah Rob Yer Mailing List, and FTP dude for MPG-Net (http://www.mpgn.com/) - -- Rob Miracle Tantalus Inc. Be patient or be a patient. -- Anton Devious ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1996 #28 ************************************