twilight2000-digest Monday, 26 August 1996 Volume 1996 : Number 017 The following topics are covered in this digest: 1. Merc: 2000 2. Testing 3. Re: Testing 4. Re: Testing 5. ideas 6. Re: Testing 7. Re: ideas 8. Re: ideas 9. Tips Wanted 10. STR in combat 11. PBeM game 12. Re: ideas 13. The Nordic countries 14. Re: ideas 15. Re: STR in combat 16. Re: Testing 17. Re: The Nordic countries 18. questions & the draft 19. Re: The Nordic countries 20. Re: STR in combat 21. Baltics & Nordic countries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ClayRBush@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 09:15:36 -0400 Subject: Merc: 2000 I've collected the following notes in a working file. I pass them on so that they may inspire others. FACT ==== From the novel ISLANDS IN THE STREAM. Federation Action Counter-Terroriste (FACT) claims responsibility for attacks on terrorists. In the intelligence community, FACT is known as a name data peddlers use as cover when they attack each other. There's possibility for deception as to who a Merc: 2000 group is working for here. Anti-Basque Notes ============== Spain got in trouble because it employed action groups on French soil. The most effective was a group of three ex-SAS British (alleged) who ran a kidnapping operation. Their biggest success was capturing a member of the Basque central committee. The Spanish contact, however, did not give them the final destination (over-compartmentalization?) With the Basque in the trunk, they followed the Spaniard until...the French police pulled him over. Without a guide, the contractees drove around town for a while, couldn't reach any other contact, and finally dropped off the captive and split town. For the devious, the above could be rewritten with the British as interpol plants. Then the Spaniard is the target, not the Basque. Terrorist Financiers ============== From a New York Times article published this week: U.S. officials (past and present) say much of the financial support for terrorists who attack Americans, Israelis, amd other Westerners come from wealthy individuals from Persian Gulf countries allied with the U.S. Some wealthy contributors believe they are underwriting legitimate Islamic charitable organizations. Others knowingly give to radical groups through secret channels. The examples include businessmen and scions of wealthy families. One, Osama Bin Laden, was stripped of his Saudi citizenship in 1994. This could provide an alternative to visiting South America to look for drig cartel figures. ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:44:19 EDT Subject: Testing Hello there... anyone on this darn thing? (Please let this work) Sheesh. - -Jeremy Menefee Semper Fidelis ------------------------------ From: a_hertz@post4.tele.dk (Hertz, Anders) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 20:30:24 +0100 Subject: Re: Testing At 13.44 23-08-1996 EDT, you wrote: >Hello there... anyone on this darn thing? > WOWOWOOW Second letter in a month ! Nothing is happening here..yet. I'm writing a small bit about the Danish Army, but have'nt found the time for it yet. Anders, Denmark ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:11:07 EDT Subject: Re: Testing >WOWOWOOW Second letter in a month ! Nothing is happening here..yet. >I'm writing a small bit about the Danish Army, but have'nt found the >time for it yet. > >Anders, Denmark > Cool! It's ALIVE! ;-) I'd love to hear what you have on Denmark! (It only takes two to have a conversation). Also, I know someone else who will join up (as soon as I tell him about it). Finally, I am just starting a PBEM campaign (using v.2.2 rules). Interested?? Check it out at "http://www.harborside.com/home/r/raphael/emrop/emrop.html" - -Jeremy Menefee Semper Fidelis ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:11:17 EDT Subject: ideas Does anyone know where TW2K is headed now that it's been picked up? I personally would like to see some redone, updated, new, (Pick your adjective) regional sourcebooks, with nothing but background material, maps, regionally important NPC's, WITHOUT the adventure ideas, etc. I think any GM worth his salt can come up with ideas on his own hook. Any comments? Anybody? I've been here a week, and the only message I got was a single reply to my "HELLO" note!! ;-) - -Jeremy Menefee Semper Fidelis ------------------------------ From: Darryl Adams Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:02:12 +1000 Subject: Re: Testing On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > Hello there... anyone on this darn thing? > > (Please let this work) > Sheesh. > > -Jeremy Menefee > Semper Fidelis > Yes, things seem to be dead here. Most of the traffic seems to be 2300 and Traveller at the moment. >----------------------------------------------------------------------------< Darryl Adams dtadams@ar.com.au "But as a Mistral employee once told me, Your only as good as your fans" TISM : Play Mistral for Me ------------------------------ From: Darryl Adams Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 10:07:22 +1000 Subject: Re: ideas On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > Does anyone know where TW2K is headed now that it's been picked up? I > personally would like to see some redone, updated, new, (Pick your > adjective) regional sourcebooks, with nothing but background material, > maps, regionally important NPC's, WITHOUT the adventure ideas, etc. I > think any GM worth his salt can come up with ideas on his own hook. Tanatalus has the rights to all the house GDW RPG games (Dark Conspiracy, 2300AD and TW2K). They are at the moment desiding what to do with it (according to Loren Weissman, who lurks on this list). The company produces on line computer games (they do The DC boardgame and did a 2300 game that was never released) for MPGN. The only way to let these guys know that there is a market for TW2K is to let them know. > > Any comments? Anybody? I've been here a week, and the only message I > got was a single reply to my "HELLO" note!! ;-) > > -Jeremy Menefee > Semper Fidelis > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------< Darryl Adams dtadams@ar.com.au "But as a Mistral employee once told me, Your only as good as your fans" TISM : Play Mistral for Me ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 21:14:05 EDT Subject: Re: ideas Well, I don't know about mass-market... the CCGs (Magic and their ilk) seem to be dominating right now. But I certainly believe an on-line TW2K store would support itself. I know from reading all the back-dated messages (all 20 or so of them) that there's a LOT of good ideas out there. LOREN! Don't let this game die! TW2K (v1.0) is the game that got me away from elf-bashing genre games like AD&D. This is one of the "classics" in RPGs, and everyone I've gotten to play it thought it was the best basic concept out there. - -Jeremy Menefee >Tanatalus has the rights to all the house GDW RPG games (Dark >Conspiracy, 2300AD and TW2K). They are at the moment desiding what to >do >with it (according to Loren Weissman, who lurks on this list). The >company produces on line computer games (they do The DC boardgame and >did >a 2300 game that was never released) for MPGN. The only way to let >these >guys know that there is a market for TW2K is to let them know. > ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 01:13:50 EDT Subject: Tips Wanted Two things... 1.) Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get away from the need for lots of STR in combat? As a former Marine, I can say that I have no problem hitting a target at mid-range firing bursts, and I was not the most buff Marine I knew. Ideas? 2.) I just started recruiting for a T2K PBEM game, and this is the first one I've run. Has anyone done one before? What sort of E-mail format worked best? I am thinking of having he characters E-mail each other all they want (with a CC to me ), and putting out a weekly "official" summary. The responsibility for making sure everyone gets a message would be on the players? because I believe most E-mail services allow mail-groups, right? Any other suggestions would be appreciated!! ;-) - -Jeremy Menefee Semper Fidelis ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:12:20 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: STR in combat On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > 1.) Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get away from the need > for lots of STR in combat? As a former Marine, I can say that I have no > problem hitting a target at mid-range firing bursts, and I was not the > most buff Marine I knew. Ideas? > Well... there are several alternatives. One is to move shooting skills away from under STR. Another way is to go with it the way it is now, have characters shoot a lot of misses, and say its all in the interest of game balance, in order to keep lethality levels lower. This would especially work if you do not allow PCs to increase their STR once the initial stats are rolled. However, from your question I seem to notice you are mainly concerned with the recoil. For that, you'll have to change the recoil rules -- e.g. use only half recoil. Another would be to redo the recoil numbers, as the current system leads to people carrying old equipment because it weighs more (!!), as that leads to less recoil. And I guess you already know about changing the automatic fire rules so that skill means something instead of just luck. - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:36:09 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: PBeM game On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > 2.) I just started recruiting for a T2K PBEM game, and this is the first > one I've run. Has anyone done one before? What sort of E-mail format > worked best? I am thinking of having he characters E-mail each other all > they want (with a CC to me ), and putting out a weekly "official" > summary. The responsibility for making sure everyone gets a message > would be on the players? because I believe most E-mail services allow > mail-groups, right? > 1. Please can I? I'd love to play! Pretty please! If you have any room, please consider me. If I can fit in or you want some extra info, please private email me. 2. OK, I used to run a T2K PBeM. I ran it strictly as an Email game, meaning I did not use chat mode for fights or anything. Here's how I ran it: a) Email: Same with me -- the players were able to email each other as much as they want to. I did not even want to be a part of this (e.g. through CC), although the way it was set up allowed me to read all messages (this was in a private BBS) -- the only reason to email me was to tell me what the character was doing, or to ask me something. Of course, because I had the access I ended up commenting some things I noticed the players assumed wrongly while their characters knew better. b) In occasions where the group wanted to make decisions together, I had a player who would relay this decision to me. This happened to be the SysOp of the system, so he was able to be very active in leading a discussion among the players and was also felt to be a fair guy all around, so I didn't have many problems with this -- until I made the mistake of suggesting that, being soldiers, the characters should have a leader among them, which led to a fight between highest rank of character, most vocal player, and person knowing most about the military in RL. I felt that it would have been quite hard for me to act as the moderator in an email discussion without pushing the players in some direction, so I was willing to give up some control in exchange for player freedom (and less work for me, of course) c) My turns were a bit faster than once per week. You used the word "summary", which I take to mean that things will move along faster with your system as well. One reason to have all the players know what is happening all the time is in my next point: d) Combat was basically done strictly by myself after the players told me what they wanted to do(as I wrote, I did not use chat or anything), which allowed me to modify it for dramatic purposes, etc. I still told the players every turn or so, because 1) T2K combat is quite interesting and 2) I wanted the players to be able to react based on each other's actions. e) In order to keep the game moving, I did everything to encourage players to write me long orders, like "if this happens then I go that way, then do this, while if that happens, then do this, and go this way afterwards" etc. Otherwise there's a serious danger of getting bogged down, and the game becoming no fun for anybody. The next step is to try to move it along forcefully, and then the players will start feeling they aren't the one's making the decisions anymore. One problem you probably will run into is player enthusiasm. No matter how you try to restrict the players to "people who access their email everyday" or something, you end up with some very enthusiastic players who email a lot (and you may start hoping they'd send you shorter messages and ask less questions) and some who only email in a turn every now and then. And it can become a big problem. There are, of course, multiple ways around it: playing the PCs as NPCs and having them drag along, taking a policy of kicking players out from the beginning, starting with excess players and killing their characters off if they don't take active part... That's it for now. Anything else you need? Oh yeah, sorry for the length of this message! > -Jeremy Menefee > Semper Fidelis Gung-ho back at you! - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:43:26 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: ideas On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > adjective) regional sourcebooks, with nothing but background material, > maps, regionally important NPC's, WITHOUT the adventure ideas, etc. I > think any GM worth his salt can come up with ideas on his own hook. > I like having the adventure ideas myself. I also think that T2K would have gained a larger following, especially among younger gamers, if there would have been a series of step-by-step adventures for it, so that might be an area where Tantalus could think about improving the offerings... - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:47:27 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: The Nordic countries On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > >WOWOWOOW Second letter in a month ! Nothing is happening here..yet. > >I'm writing a small bit about the Danish Army, but have'nt found the > >time for it yet. > > > >Anders, Denmark > > > I'd love to hear what you have on Denmark! (It only takes two to have a Wanna know what we've got in Finland? - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 12:59:46 EDT Subject: Re: ideas I agree, step-by-step MODULES would have been good. As an experienced player, I loved the odules I did have as they were very open-ended, but new players often feel more comfortable with the guidance (and older players sometimes need a kick in the butt too ). But I still feel, both as a player and a GM, that the adventure-less source book would have been welcome additions. Perhaps someone here could put one together (wink, wink, hint, hint)? If you Tantalus guys are out there lurking in the shadows, I still think the game could at least support itself with an online catalogue. I know bunches of places that wouldn't mind putting a link on their page! - -Jeremy Menefee Semper Fidelis On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:43:26 +0300 (EET DST) Matti Aistrich writes: >On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > >> adjective) regional sourcebooks, with nothing but background >material, >> maps, regionally important NPC's, WITHOUT the adventure ideas, etc. >I >> think any GM worth his salt can come up with ideas on his own hook. >> >I like having the adventure ideas myself. I also think that T2K would >have gained a larger following, especially among younger gamers, if >there would have been a series of step-by-step adventures for it, so >that >might be an area where Tantalus could think about improving the >offerings... > >--------------------------------------------- >: Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : >: only just : : >: good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : >--------------------------------------------- >-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- >Version: 3.1 >GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- >X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ >------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ > > ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:55:13 EDT Subject: Re: STR in combat I disagree. IMHO, Full auto really IS impossible to control, and is mostly used to keep heads down, or spray a rushing squad. In full auto, you really ARE less likely to hit the main target, but as well, you are likely to hit _something_, so it works will facing concentrated troops. I could be wrong , but that's been my experience with full-auto. >And I guess you already know about changing the automatic fire rules >so >that skill means something instead of just luck. ------------------------------ From: a_hertz@post4.tele.dk (Hertz, Anders) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:13:24 +0100 Subject: Re: Testing At 15.11 23-08-1996 EDT, you wrote: >Cool! It's ALIVE! ;-) > >I'd love to hear what you have on Denmark! (It only takes two to have a >conversation). Also, I know someone else who will join up (as soon as I >tell him about it). > >Finally, I am just starting a PBEM campaign (using v.2.2 rules). >Interested?? >Check it out at >"http://www.harborside.com/home/r/raphael/emrop/emrop.html" I'm interested. I'll have a bit ready in a couple of days. Anders ------------------------------ From: a_hertz@post4.tele.dk (Hertz, Anders) Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:25:13 +0100 Subject: Re: The Nordic countries At 16.47 24-08-1996 +0300, you wrote: >On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: >> I'd love to hear what you have on Denmark! (It only takes two to have a > >Wanna know what we've got in Finland? > Sure it will be nice Anders, Denmark ------------------------------ From: jeremy14@juno.com (Jeremy S Menefee) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 17:16:35 EDT Subject: questions & the draft Has anyone here done anything with the Baltic states? What about the Balkans? And I'm still waiting for that Denmark and Finland stuff ! - -Jeremy Menefee Semper Fidelis PS - I'm still recruiting four characters for my PBEM game (can play two characters each, 1 combatant, 1 non-com _if_you_like_)! Lemme know if you are interested. ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:32:38 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: The Nordic countries On Sat, 24 Aug 1996 a_hertz@post4.tele.dk wrote: > >Wanna know what we've got in Finland? > > > Sure it will be nice > So what are you thinking of letting people know about Denmark, and what do you want to know about Finland? - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:36:14 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Re: STR in combat On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > 1.) STR in combat... How 'bout this? I do away with recoil for all but > full-auto (where it actually IS important) and MULTIPLE bursts (again, > important). I can tell you that a properly braced weapon, while it will > kick, will not throw off your aim, as the muzzle-rise occurs AFTER the > first set of bullets leave the weapon;-) and two, I will average STR and > AGL to get the appropriate number. While somewhat unrealistic, AGL is > really a measure of hand-eye/general coordination... this is more > important in single shots/single burst than STR I think. Thoughts??? Yes, that would be very logical and will lessen the importance of STR, although not by very much... for instance, you've still got the problems of having the shooting skills under STR, and that of new guns vs. old ones. BTW, one way to work around the new vs. old guns problem would be to start dishing out carrying penalties earlier than what the limits would be in the rules, giving a clear penalty for carrying heavy guns. Makes the characters drop their rucksacks when they get into a fight :-) AGL has to do as we don't have dexterity in T2K... - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ From: Matti Aistrich Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:42:04 +0300 (EET DST) Subject: Baltics & Nordic countries On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, Jeremy S Menefee wrote: > Has anyone here done anything with the Baltic states? What about the > Balkans? And I'm still waiting for that Denmark and Finland stuff ! > I've been mulling over doing a campaign in the Baltics. Was it the 8th or what that was stranded there? Also one way for people to escape from Poland. Also, the DIA or somebody can give the characters a mission to go and find and recover the missing division... or what's left of it. Remotely related to this subject, I've always been surprised that none of the groups I've GM'ed T2K to have decided to stay around Kalisz and snipe away at the Russians... everyone's been in a real hurry to leave the place behind and never look back... I've had this happen with I guess 4 or 5 different player groups! BTW, if you're new to the list, there actually is an official sourcebook available on the Nordic countries, plus an adventure book which takes the characters away from Poland via the Nordic countries (at least it's supposed to... :-) )... the only bad thing is, that these books happen to be in Finnish... ;-) As they are officially approved by GDW, it MIGHT be that Tantalus would have some rights to the books -- or would be interested in buying them from the Finnish publisher or writers (one of which I happened to be in the Army with). In that case, I would be interested in translating them. - --------------------------------------------- : Perfect is : Matti M. Aistrich : : only just : : : good enough! : aistrich@kyyppari.hkkk.fi : - --------------------------------------------- - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GB d+(++) s-:+ a- C+ W+ w PS+ PE++ Y+ t--- X- R++ tv+ b+ D++ G e++>+++ h-- y+++ - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ ------------------------------ End of twilight2000-digest V1996 #17 ************************************